Is Tipuric rather than Warburton the future at 7

For a young man Sam already seems to pick up a lot of injuries. His physique since his under 20's days seems to have changed and he appears much more muscular these days. The type of ligament injury which threatens to side-line him for the remainder of the tournament is a everyday occurrence among modern players (as is the dreaded calf strain). Are these guys simply carrying too much muscle for their frame? While you can strengthen the supporting muscles, ligaments are ligaments and designed to support muscle mass that you are genetically designed to carry.

It has been said before that careers are likely to be shorter than in the past and I would have to agree. Justin Tipurics body shape seems to be more natural, will this mean that he is less prone to injury and is in fact the future. Should we be actually looking for his backup?

Alternatively should Tipuric’s level of performance reach the level he achieved against Ireland, should Gatland think about formally rotating them to lengthen Sam’s career at this level?

No.
Warburton is one of the best players around right now and is a shoe in for the Lions captaincy (if fit).
Tipuric, is an excellent player in his own right but just not as good as Warburton.

Lovely position for a country to be in when they have players of this capability fcompeting for spots.

I agree Sam has bulked up a hell of a lot since i saw him play for the U20's probably too much for his naturally slim frame. Tipuric on the other hand looks pretty much the same lol.

I think it would be best for everyone to rate them quite often. Sam isn't that far ahead of Tipuric in all fairness, in fact i'd probably say Tipuric has a better attacking game.

Although it might be awkward since Sam is the captain! but then again that could change in the near future.

Hopefully Tuperic will push Warburton hard for his place over the next decade.

I am sure Marty Hollah did a great deal in making Richie McCaw the player he is.

let's see what tipuric can do against italy and maybe france but i think he is an excellent player and he is captain of the ospreys. at club level he has more than proved himself and at international he seems to be doing the same thing. just to remind you what this guy can do in attack as well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=712xIlgVhk0

Great try.

Tipuric has one cameo against Ireland under his belt - let's see how he goes Saturday, I still think he's too underpowered at this level - Whilst we're at it at shall we rest North and Phillips for Brew and Peel

Did Tipuric not play in the RWC warm ups?

What the hell do you mean by that?

To be honest in a years time we will be saying what about Navidi as the futher instead of Tipuric and then twelve months later we will be saying why not Dan Thomas instead of any of them.

We are in a real good positon with back row options at the moment, and we have a number of youngsters coming through. I guess that the way things wil go will be that Warburton will eventually lose the shirt to someone else due to an injury layoff and a dip in form, and then they will in turn lose the shirt to another player etc etc. And gods honest truth I would rather us have 3 or 4 decent flankers who all eventually retire with 40-60 Caps rather than have to rely heavily on one bloke as we have no options.

RubyGuby wrote:Tipuric has one cameo against Ireland under his belt - let's see how he goes Saturday, I still think he's too underpowered at this level - Whilst we're at it at shall we rest North and Phillips for Brew and Peel

Really? He looked pretty powerful when he came on against Ireland did he not?

gowales wrote:What the hell do you mean by that?

Did who the hell mean what the hell about what???

Is it tom young? dai's boy, he looks very good too.

There is still Josh Turnbull who was superb last year at the Scarlets to return from injury and hit form too.

Martyn's Williams inspired a legacy.

maestegmafia wrote:

gowales wrote:What the hell do you mean by that?

Did who the hell mean what the hell about what???

Sorry should have quoted. I was aiming that at Guby's comment

maestegmafia wrote:Is it tom young? dai's boy, he looks very good too.

There is still Josh Turnbull who was superb last year at the Scarlets to return from injury and hit form too.

Martyn's Williams inspired a legacy.

Just looking at the younger players we have a real amount of quality across the back row -: Lydiate, L Evans, Faletau, Warbuton, Navidi, Petorious (soon?), Tipuric, Turnbull, McCusker, Shingler, and a number of others coming through.

Not many 8s in that list? Many talented flankers though.

Rory - Warburton and Turnbull played at 8 in age grade, and McCusker has played there internationally. I think that to be honest there is a fair bit of versitility amongst those listed.

Yeah I know Warburton used to be an 8, but I don't think he would be very effective in that role now.

To be honest there aren't a lot of quality 8's coming through. When Ryan J and Powell eventually retire we could be struggling for quality back up.

eirebilly wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Tipuric has one cameo against Ireland under his belt - let's see how he goes Saturday, I still think he's too underpowered at this level - Whilst we're at it at shall we rest North and Phillips for Brew and Peel

Really? He looked pretty powerful when he came on against Ireland did he not?

Billy - that's twice in one morning mate, you should know better, Now listen, Tips is a fab player in many respects but powerful he aint - He was lifted one handed in that line out in Ireland and he snuck in there and turned the ball over on the floor a couple of times - Great cameo - let's see v Italy - Next time you disagree you're off to the Mods or worse still I will buy you a season ticket and you have to watch the Ospreys at home every game

I am going to have to reach through my screen and slap you Ruby, you cheeky scamp

I just thought that Tips looked quite powerful against Ireland when he came on, he certainly made some ground, won some turnovers and drove some players back in the tackle. I may be wrong though

I'm leaving St Austell and off to Truro now - Bout 15 miles, catch you later

Take it easy Ruby

Initially (before the WC) I feared the same thing, that Warbs was not the future for Wales considering the overwhelming regularity of his injuries. Having said that he was fit throughout an immensely testing campaign in NZ. It has since become apparent that he is the best openside flanker, as well as the best leader, in Wales. This makes it all the more painfully worrying to observe the recurring nature of his injuries, they which have sprung back to their worst this 6N.

Warbs, for all his talent, strikes me as someone who need only fall the wrong way or take a bang in the wrong place to suffer a few weeks out. Ironically considering his honesty in the press, I hope he's either exaggerating or lying in saying he's struggling for the France clash. I believe that a player like Warbs comes along once every decade at least.

Tomorrow should tell us more about Tipuric, he lived up to a bigger occasion in the opener in Dublin but this is his first start so I'd say keep an open mind and lay off heaping overdoses of pressure on the lad.

gowales wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

gowales wrote:What the hell do you mean by that?

Did who the hell mean what the hell about what???

Sorry should have quoted. I was aiming that at Guby's comment

Ha ha ha..!

dragonbreath wrote:Are these guys simply carrying too much muscle for their frame? While you can strengthen the supporting muscles, ligaments are ligaments and designed to support muscle mass that you are genetically designed to carry.

These guys are far, far from their 'genetic limit', which I'm still sceptical even exists (I've yet to see solid evidence to support it). Injuries just occur, your body is not designed to move in certain ways, its nothing to do with how much or how little muscle they have, if you land badly/twist your knee, or any other joint its going to get damaged.

IronMike wrote:

dragonbreath wrote:Are these guys simply carrying too much muscle for their frame? While you can strengthen the supporting muscles, ligaments are ligaments and designed to support muscle mass that you are genetically designed to carry.

These guys are far, far from their 'genetic limit', which I'm still sceptical even exists (I've yet to see solid evidence to support it). Injuries just occur, your body is not designed to move in certain ways, its nothing to do with how much or how little muscle they have, if you land badly/twist your knee, or any other joint its going to get damaged.

I am no scientist either, but it seems only common sense that if your pre protein drink 3 hours in a gym weight is 13 stone and you bulk up to 16.5 stone the strain on those joints and ligaments is greater, compounding the effect of a twist or unnatural movement (whatever that is). As I said not a scientist but unless you have some professional expertise, (which I would be delighted for you to share) your logic seems flawed

maestegmafia wrote:

gowales wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

gowales wrote:What the hell do you mean by that?

Did who the hell mean what the hell about what???

Sorry should have quoted. I was aiming that at Guby's comment

Ha ha ha..!

Back in Truro - What comment

RubyGuby wrote:Tipuric has one cameo against Ireland under his belt - let's see how he goes Saturday, I still think he's too underpowered at this level - Whilst we're at it at shall we rest North and Phillips for Brew and Peel

?

Iron MIke - I thought there were semi-proven links to carrying excess weight and joint damage, just by looking at the number of overweight/obese/morbidly-obese folk that have knee surgery. Just the same as there is a link between drinking and liver/kidney damage, or smoking and heart problems.

RubyGuby wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Tipuric has one cameo against Ireland under his belt - let's see how he goes Saturday, I still think he's too underpowered at this level - Whilst we're at it at shall we rest North and Phillips for Brew and Peel

Really? He looked pretty powerful when he came on against Ireland did he not?

Billy - that's twice in one morning mate, you should know better, Now listen, Tips is a fab player in many respects but powerful he aint - He was lifted one handed in that line out in Ireland and he snuck in there and turned the ball over on the floor a couple of times - Great cameo - let's see v Italy - Next time you disagree you're off to the Mods or worse still I will buy you a season ticket and you have to watch the Ospreys at home every game

Jeebus, Ruby, he'll double the crowd

Warburton is not made of glass guys, Williams and Mccaw all had regular knocks and twists, it's the nature of the style of play they have adopted.

They put their upper bodies into compromising positions at every ruck, they are in very vulnerable positions, and therefore take unsighted hits from numerous directions. I'd liken it to american football, they will constantly have knocks here and there throughout their careers because of the way they play, it's what makes them the best at what they do, having the balls to take the punishment for the good of the team.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Tipuric has one cameo against Ireland under his belt - let's see how he goes Saturday, I still think he's too underpowered at this level - Whilst we're at it at shall we rest North and Phillips for Brew and Peel

Really? He looked pretty powerful when he came on against Ireland did he not?

Billy - that's twice in one morning mate, you should know better, Now listen, Tips is a fab player in many respects but powerful he aint - He was lifted one handed in that line out in Ireland and he snuck in there and turned the ball over on the floor a couple of times - Great cameo - let's see v Italy - Next time you disagree you're off to the Mods or worse still I will buy you a season ticket and you have to watch the Ospreys at home every game

Jeebus, Ruby, he'll double the crowd

GoWales - the references to Brew and Peel above were a joke (well almost) you need to get to know me

I know it was a joke but i didn't see how it related to Tipuric, since hes in the squad and they're not.

The question is about resting Warbs for Tips, a joke can go outside the squad and hence Brew and Peel. C'mon GO I know its Friday but C'mon Munnnnnnnnnnnn

Gotcha

Where you from Go?

Wales

If you're wondering why i support Sale, it's because they've always seemed to have a lot of Welshman in their squad and because i hate watching the Ospreys sometimes

Oh im a bit of a plank. I'm from Skewan originally

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Iron MIke - I thought there were semi-proven links to carrying excess weight and joint damage, just by looking at the number of overweight/obese/morbidly-obese folk that have knee surgery. Just the same as there is a link between drinking and liver/kidney damage, or smoking and heart problems.

Theres a massive difference in carrying a large amount of excess bodyfat to having stronger and larger muscles which have been conditioned.

Skewen, - Neath/Glynneath for me GO - Used to play for Neath town with a Dai Glover from Skewen - good player back then

I think gats put his finger on it when he said they'll both get a lot of caps though it would take a lot to displace warbs as first choice. They're both bound to pick up injuries over the years and it's great to be able to have a genuine 7 on the bench which is quite unusual these days - was crucial against ireland.