De Grand Finale match - begorrah! England v Ireland 17 March - Hic!

First topic message reminder :

The stage is set for a humdinger of a match next week today with the final match of the Championship hosting a revitalised England fresh from victory in France against their bogey team, Ireland.



Despite a recent run of victories - home and away - against England, Ireland never seem to have a problem in getting up for this match. The fact that it's in Twickenham on St Patrick's Day will give it that little extra edge.

Lancaster and his troops will want to sign off their first season in charge with a flourish. Kidney's Ireland, having been unlucky in the Welsh match, and kicking themselves after their draw in Paris, will want to put another good score and victory on the board.



Ireland will be without O'Connell again who did a lot of the pre-match talking in the build-up to last year's victory for the men in green. England seem full of confidence and it looks like Lancaster has found the right mix and belief that's going to make this grand finale a belter.

Are English fans feeling confident? Irish ones a bit more doubtful of continuing their English streak?


England: 15 Ben Foden, 14 Chris Ashton, 13 Manusamoa Tuilagi, 12 Brad Barritt, 11 David Strettle, 10 Owen Farrell, 9 Lee Dickson, 8 Ben Morgan, 7 Chris Robshaw (capt), 6 Tom Croft, 5 Geoff Parling, 4 Mouritz Botha, 3 Dan Cole, 2 Dylan Hartley, 1 Alex Corbisiero.
Replacements: 16 Rob Webber, 17 Matt Stevens, 18 Tom Palmer, 19 Phil Dowson, 20 Ben Youngs, 21 Charlie Hodgson, 22 Mike Brown.

Ireland: 15 R Kearney (Leinster), 14 T Bowe (Ospreys), 13 K Earls (Munster), 12 G D'Arcy (Leinster), 11 A Trimble (Ulster), 10 J Sexton (Leinster), 9 E Reddan (Leinster); 1 C Healy (Leinster), 2 R Best (Ulster, capt), 3 M Ross (Leinster), 4 D O'Callaghan (Munster), 5 D Ryan (Munster), 6 S Ferris (Ulster), 7 S O'Brien (Leinster), 8 J Heaslip (Leinster)
Replacements: 16 S Cronin (Leinster), 17 T Court (Ulster), 18 M McCarthy (Connacht), 19 P O'Mahony (Munster), 20 T O'Leary (Munster), 21 R O'Gara (Munster), 22 F McFadden (Leinster)


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Gibson wrote:

SecretFly wrote:I like Sexton's imperfection. I like that his mistakes grind into him, that he gets ratty, that he mouths his perfect 'French' when things don't work out, that he takes his annoyance out on team mates sometimes.

He's one complex intense young man. He'll continue to make errors that the metronome kickers won't but he's an enigma and I'm enjoying the journey.

Ah Fly, yer ony great with de woids. That's him to a place-kicking tee. He's a perfectionist and his own worst critic. And the more top-level games he plays, the better he gets. As a leader too.

Sexton is the next Lions OH. For sure. Farrell has a long way to go to match him. Needs to improve and prove it in the HC and internationally, for another season or 2.
Remember Cipriani and the hulla-balloo over him? Same with Flood. Wait and see England fans, wait and see. I am sure he will prove it. Like the cut of his jib. Ice-cool.

All very well gentlemen but would like to see him develop from being a defensive kicker to doing a bit more...

I'd say the same on Sexton, wouldn't be the first to be considered a second coming early on.

Mind you, bod was and that turned out to be true.

Triangulation wrote:
I fear for our lads.

I very very nearly stopped watching the last 6N game between us and Ireland it was so painful to watch.

No reason to think that this might be any better. Plenty why it could be worse.

I presume you are joking.

Ireland are good, but England are due a win and played a lot better against France than Ireland did against Scotland. Breakdown has been an issue against Ireland recently, but I'd say this is the best backrow England have had for a while, and they did fine against the highly rated Welsh and French backrows - I expect parity this year.

The English front row is developing nicely, the lineout is strong with Parling and Croft. England's back 3 has been off-form, but they are decent defensively and may be due to show some more attacking form.

The English centres appear far more physical than their Irish counterparts.

I'm reasonably confident. England have been improving through the tournament, are at home, and in my opinion should have enough to win (although not enough to win the 6 Nations, even though I expect France to beat Wales).

DaveM wrote:

Triangulation wrote:
I fear for our lads.

I very very nearly stopped watching the last 6N game between us and Ireland it was so painful to watch.

No reason to think that this might be any better. Plenty why it could be worse.

I presume you are joking.

Ireland are good, but England are due a win and played a lot better against France than Ireland did against Scotland. Breakdown has been an issue against Ireland recently, but I'd say this is the best backrow England have had for a while, and they did fine against the highly rated Welsh and French backrows - I expect parity this year.

The English front row is developing nicely, the lineout is strong with Parling and Croft. England's back 3 has been off-form, but they are decent defensively and may be due to show some more attacking form.

The English centres appear far more physical than their Irish counterparts.

I'm reasonably confident. England have been improving through the tournament, are at home, and in my opinion should have enough to win (although not enough to win the 6 Nations, even though I expect France to beat Wales).

No jokes DaveM. Unless you can help me out with some gallows humour.

OK. Have you heard the one about the English rugby team?

They got hammered by a bunch of fired up Irish men on Paddies day by 128 points.

When will we be free of this Irish tyranny?

Their unshakeable determination to always beat England their monopoly on pride and passion leave us on the receiving end time and time again. Dammit

yup, they've been doing it since rugby began, we've never been able to turn a corner and never will because rugby never goes in cycles.

trebellbobaggins wrote:yup, they've been doing it since rugby began, we've never been able to turn a corner and never will because rugby never goes in cycles.

I think passion in the shirt is something this particular England team will not be lacking in. That's Robshaw's specialty as captain, after all

Triangulation wrote:When will we be free of this Irish tyranny?

Their unshakeable determination to always beat England their monopoly on pride and passion leave us on the receiving end time and time again. Dammit

Tp be honest I'm stunned the UN don't step in an end this. Years of brutal cruelty and oppression have just been ignored whilst an entire people cower in fear of the next time their forts will be stormed and their homeland pillaged.

who is the ref? What is his price? every man has his price. 4 red cards for irishmen - O'Brien, Ferris, Kearney and Sexton and we might stand a chance

Well I suppose Wayne Barnes shafted us for a pint of brains .....

trebellbobaggins wrote:Tp be honest I'm stunned the UN don't step in an end this. Years of brutal cruelty and oppression have just been ignored whilst an entire people cower in fear of the next time their forts will be stormed and their homeland pillaged.

Well Baggins me old mate, one thing that we English are good at is queuing (even if i cant spell the word)
SO as you alluded to earlier before kick off we should all form up in orderly Qs on the white cliffs of dover and go over the edge lemming style.

i think we'd need a lot more than that.

Imagine 14 red cards and yet standing there alone is the jolly green giant that is Sexton. 15 feet tall and striding atop the dwarvish English as he smashes them aside alone in brutal fashion.

It's going to be too cruel for words.

I think you are right Tri, we should start lining up right now. It's all over.

Triangulation wrote: 4 red cards for irishmen - O'Brien, Ferris, Kearney and Sexton and we might stand a chance

Oh no!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then they just become the proverbial 'wounded animal'. Nobody is safe then, not even the crowd. Total anarchy.

oh god the poor crowd. Actually i think this needs to be played in an empty stadium, for the sake of the poor common folk.

Imagine if the giant that is Sexton gets hungry during the match? he'll just pluck children from the crowd and swallow them whole if the english dare anger him.

I know, I know. I think a full regiment of Marines should be on stand by, just to down Sexton if he manages to escape the cordon around Twickers...I'd hate to see him eating Big Ben.

it's a fair point. I think they need heavy armour though to be honest. Guns won't be enough. Are they getting the Queen out before the invasion starts?

it's a fair point. I think they need heavy armour though to be honest. Guns won't be enough. Are they getting the Queen out before the invasion starts?

She's out organising the last line of defence: Steeplechasing. There's a reason Aintree is where it is.

Cunning! If he sees a horse he'll spend the rest of the day chasing it around the course until he collapses from exhaustion (which would take that monster many days I presume).

trebellbobaggins wrote:Cunning! If he sees a horse he'll spend the rest of the day chasing it around the course until he collapses from exhaustion (which would take that monster many days I presume).

...and the rest of them will be betting on the result.

Not that we're relying on stereotyping here or anything...

(Meanwhile the English are all migrating to the Dordogne and becoming French so they can REALLY have a team to moan about)

haha, great idea.

i take great comfort in being part Irish and French. I can celebrate victory and wallow in despair on Saturday, whilst drinking my Mead seeing as i'm Cornish and shrugging my shoulders lots to further comfort my French side after the Wales thrashing.

Cheer up Triangulation,

Ireland and England are friends now. Sure didn't the queen even lay a wreath in Croke Park last year to commemorate the massacre of the English rugby team in 2007.

She did, God Bless the Lady

Feckless Rogue wrote:Cheer up Triangulation,

Ireland and England are friends now. Sure didn't the queen even lay a wreath in Croke Park last year to commemorate the massacre of the English rugby team in 2007.

And there is also the will they/won't they controversy of whether Madge meets the bloke ultimately responsible for blowing her uncle into a pound of mince.

Even as a republican, I'll find that hard to applaud.

Portnoy wrote:
And there is also the will they/won't they controversy of whether Madge meets the bloke ultimately responsible for blowing her uncle into a pound of mince.

They also blew a local Irish boy into (well I'll leave your comment to explain it). Wherever you look, you see pain divided out equally.

But the mood is light and humourous on this page. I think it might be best to stay there

I think it's going to be a cracker, though I have Ireland as firm favourites. If England can manage parity in the loose (big ask...) we're definitely in with a chance. We have to reckon that Bowe, Trimble or Kearney will score between them at some point. England have it all to do and all to prove. Still, at least this England set-up is so new that there will be little baggage from previous massacres...

Croke 2007 remains the most impressive Irish performance I've ever seen.

And there is also the will they/won't they controversy of whether Madge meets the bloke ultimately responsible for blowing her uncle into a pound of mince.

Even as a republican, I'll find that hard to applaud.

The whole point of it is that those days are past. That man is also perhaps more responsible than anyone else for stopping the killing...

Anyways, this is about a damfine upcoming game of Rugby.

If the weather stays like this it's going to be one helluva day in SW London, win or lose. Crowds spilling out of the pubs down by the river in Ricmond before the game, friends meeting up and the river of people from Richmond to Twickers and all the traffic being held up on the main roads, and then post match celebrations and drowning of sorrows and promises to meet again next time from the Thames to the Shannon!

Surely any English fan meeting you at the Shannon will find themselves a touch out of reach of the Aviva.

Just to pull focus away from the serious stuff...

IT'S NOT THE GRANDE FINALE! It's the plate final, or the 3rd place playoff!

IT'S NOT THE GRANDE FINALE! It's the plate final, or the 3rd place playoff!

Yes, but no-one's really interested in Wales - France. After all, the result is a foregone conclusion. England Ireland may be for second place, but the loser gets third, which is worse, and we don't know the result beforehand.

3rd only? Isn't 4th available... How humiliating

I have smashed every television set in my and my family's homes. I am retreating to the bunkers until perfidious Eire has left these shores! Woe, woe and thrice woe for my beloved England!

Ireland by 3

What about the spirit of 2008? When the mighty warrior, Danny Cipriani, vanquished the Irish. A gem of an English performance in a desert of defeats to Ireland. I honestly think England will win this one.

ah but Cipriani fled the Isles when he realised that it had been left solely to him to repel the green tide, a burden he could not carry.

Without the Cipsinator there is nothing to stop the Irish flowing over the English like a Tidal Wave (but that's OK , they could use some water in the South).

Ireland by 300.

England all out for 168.

thebluesmancometh wrote:3rd only? Isn't 4th available... How humiliating

Given the total, Laws of Physics certainty of a crushing Welsh victory, France are already booked for 4th. Since rugby doesn't have an official double defeat as a potential result (though a draw comes close!) we'll just have to settle for second to a Welsh side that thinks defeat is the other end from de head.

And if France beat the Welsh? Isn't the England Ireland game the 2nd/4th playoff???

And if France beat the Welsh? Isn't the England Ireland game the 2nd/4th playoff???

You can't really be Welsh. That thought hasn't even entered the head of a true Welshman. Lose? Impossible!

thebluesmancometh wrote:And if France beat the Welsh? Isn't the England Ireland game the 2nd/4th playoff???

If France beat the Whales, then the England v Ireland game could be the 1st/2nd/3rd/4th decider dependent on scorelines and the effect on Points Difference margins

Table before Grand Finale would be:

Wales P5 Pts 8
France P5 Pts 7
England P4 Pts 6
Ireland P4 Pts 5

Hopefully, this is what transpires.

1st for England? HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

I can envisage Wales losing possibly, but England to score enough? no chance!

Wales will win the championship, it's a case of wether England can secure 2nd or 4th thats the issue for the playoff game after.

4th, Ireland won.

Ireland are going to smash England - Ferris and Kearney are very confident of that and are clearly more up for this game than any other in the 6N.

Exactly, they can't lose.

It's already in the bag to be fair.

Completely.

Might as well not play it, pffft!

At least everyone gets to enjoy Paddy's day that way.

4th, Ireland won.

England just didn't turn up. Ah well. There's always next year. Says he, glumly comtemplating it.

That's only a smokescreen, guys. Ferris and Kearney talk up the fury and then play their usual game of defend, defend, defend, defend.

England will be set up to defend in the first half too................ so it'll be like a Spagetti western where the gunfighters stand a mile apart and stare each other down...through binoculars!

The English will think "Where's the bloody blood and guts stuff???" They'll feel cheated, they'll get angry..... they'll charge.
Ireland will wait for it - wait for IT! Let them run, let them get in firing distance. A possessed with rage Tuilagi will lead the charge, the ring in his nose red hot from the inflamed air gushing from his nostrils.

Wait for it, says commander Sexton - then kicks it high and long. And off chases Sir Galahad (I mean Kearney).... he jumps 32 feet into the air, collects and charges off unhindered as the charging English realise they've been had and try to chase after him. Kearney heroically touches down and has his handsome pic taken before trotting back for the restart.

Sexton converts and Ireland defend, defend, defend and defend the 7 points until the end of the game

And they all lived happily ever after.

Touche mousieur Fly, touche!

Now feck off I'm trying to start a row!

See? Even SecretFly knows the Irish win. Even if Tuilagi breaks through he'll hit the post, and you'll have a Tuilagi shaped post and possession.

Ben Foden stole one of our gorgeous burds (Una Healy) and now they have a baby together. That's enough reason to hammer England. That girl had better play for Ireland Ladies or there will be Hell to pay.

Yiz come over here, steal our wimmin...

Kearney was roysh.

But your wimmin are damn fine ladies Gibbo, wasted over there they are, much better they'll be fer a drop of fine English beef - just ask me Ma.