Manny needs to fight Marquez again

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In my eyes in the next few years if Manny doesn't fight Mayweather then he has to fight Marquez I say this as how easily Floyd beat Marquez and how much Mannys struggled against him they drew the first fight and Marquez clearly won the second in a close fight but they gave it to Pacquaio.If he doesn't fight Marquez Manny's ATG rank will likely be less than Floyd because of that fight I for one would love to see the 3rd fight but think that Mannys just the more improved fighter and can see him winning by UD.Although if one of them opt to fight Sergio Martinez and LOSE then its a whole different story and we'll still be looking for the world current p4p number 1 a simple plan would be for just Sergio to fight Manny and then the winner to fight Floyd and then we would find out the best fighter in the world at this moment but however sadly my plan is very very unlikely to happen..

Average age of Pacquia's last 6 opponets is currently 32 which will go upto 33 after Mosley, so not much difference on that score

imperialghosty wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:Mosley 38
Marquez 36
Hatton 30
Oscar 34
Baldomir 35

Average is around 35

You said last 6 D4 not last 5, with Judahs 28 bringing that number down to around 33

Meant to say 5, but we have rounded all those ages down as well.

Still Pacquiao opponents has been on average 3 years younger.

Moving goalposts now, should check my post above which fully disproves your theory

Out of interest who do you think Pacquiao should fight, can't say Mayweather because he does not want it and won't step up to the plate.

D4thincarnation wrote:It beginning to become a joke, people call for Pacquiao to fight Mosley, he does that then he get criticised for it.

The they call for him to fight Marquez, then he getting critised when that fight may happen too.

When were people calling for him to fight SSM? After he got spanked by Floyd and drew with the reality tv star? Or before those 2 bouts when chicken-Roach poured a bucket full of iced water on the very idea?

Marquez will be 99 when they fight and Pac will still ask for weight stips.

He should make the Mayweather fight happen if he really wants it, seeing as neither have gone out of their way to make it happen the blame is attributable to both. Whether you like it or not.

D4thincarnation wrote:Out of interest who do you think Pacquiao should fight, can't say Mayweather because he does not want it and won't step up to the plate.

Anyone who will ensure he takes random tests with no cut off dates. We dont want a drug cheat making huge sums of money and cheating. Lets all make sure he is clean. And that includes all his opponents.

SSM is old and not completely useless and finished as a top level operator.

Until their is a complete overhaul of the testing system you can't expect one boxer to do anything out of the ordinary

The ring in Vegas where Mayweather fights must exist in some other time zone, where time passes much quicker because fighters that face Mayweather in that ring age about 10 times quicker after come of that ring. Only a year passes for the rest of us but Mayweather opponents age 10 years in that time.

Is this only explanation for, top fighter when facing Mayweather and old shot men when facing Pacquiao a year later.

imperialghosty wrote:He should make the Mayweather fight happen if he really wants it, seeing as neither have gone out of their way to make it happen the blame is attributable to both. Whether you like it or not.

Pacquiao: I want to fight Mayweather.

Mayweather: I want to go on vacation for a year a two.

Response when asked about the proposed fight.

A lot can happen in a year D4 especially in the life of a boxer so to assume that no boxer detiorates in that time is pretty naive. Beatings like the ones Cotto and Margarito received stay with a fight forever and to ignore that is again pretty naive.

D4, you would be a far more respected poster if you stuck to the facts of things rather than to speculate, we can all do that and in your case you're a master in assuming that your speculation is fact.

Anyway Goodnight,

Maybe it is not a good idea to have no cut off time on this site.

Owned again

Thank you very much and goodnight

D4thincarnation wrote:The ring in Vegas where Mayweather fights must exist in some other time zone, where time passes much quicker because fighters that face Mayweather in that ring age about 10 times quicker after come of that ring. Only a year passes for the rest of us but Mayweather opponents age 10 years in that time.

Is this only explanation for, top fighter when facing Mayweather and old shot men when facing Pacquiao a year later.

You talk utter bum gravy, really you do.

DEAR MODERATORS/ADMINS

Having had a read through this thread it's degenerated into a "Manny v Floyd" thread again, and guess who the culprit is for continually banging on about it?

Seem unable to mention one or the other on here without that little twerp coming on and repeating the same drivel he spent 18 months spouting on the old 606.

Is it a good thing that if someone mentions Pacquiao or Mayweather that this "poster" (and you can't understand how loosely i use that term) comes on and thinks it's a license to drag the article towards that same old arguement? That if someone says something bad about Manny he has to slate Floyd to try and re-balance the scales or something.

And to think i woke up in a good mood this morning

Many thanks

Coxy

coxy, you're not meant to say such things on an open thread. There's an 'alert the moderators' thread if you have any problems or issues. Then once you've posted on there you'll be informed that the best thing to do is to actually PM one of the moderators. Presumably after that you'll be told to comandeer a carrier pigeon. The pigeon will have to take a message to a St Bernard. The St Bernard will pass it on to Lassie. Lassie will then...oh, you get my drift? He doesn't technically break the rules, so they won't do anything.

Where the oh dear is said link!?

Seems as though - like it or not - it falls to me to try to sort this out again.

Everybody at admin is aware of the difficulties surrounding the Manny / Floyd stuff, and everybody is working behind the scenes and is focused on trying to find a solution. In the meantime I can only ask you fellas to be a little patient while it's being dealt with.

Thanks.

Just have one thread where that's the only place you can mention either.

Failure to comply results in a 24hr ban.

Just showing off my apparent "right wing" tendencies i never knew existed!

D4,

You write this :

" Is this only explanation for, top fighter when facing Mayweather and old shot men when facing Pacquiao a year later. "

and seem UTTERLY OBLIVIOUS to the fact that YOU claimed that Mosley was ' shot ' when Floyd fought him, and a year later YOU claim that Mosley is a ' live ' opponent for Manny.

You can't see why folks are getting exasperated ?

HumanWindmill wrote:D4,

You can't see why folks are getting exasperated ?

Sod exasperated, i might end it all

coxy0001 wrote:Where the oh dear is said link!?

https://www.606v2.com/t29-alert-moderator-thread

Good luck.

And Windy, it seems you have the patience of a saint.

To be fair Coxy, we have tried merging posts in the past that descend in to the "same old argument". When this has been done we have been accused of being heavy handed as the original threads were trying to discuss a different aspect of the argument.

Now that we are giving you fellas a little more time to steer things back on course for yourselves we are being accused of not acting.

Surely you can see the quandry that we find ourselves in?

We are working on a solution that is favourable for all. Until that point I suggest that you do in fact use the Alert a Moderator thread which can be found here: -
https://www.606v2.com/t29-alert-moderator-thread

Alternatively there is an ! icon on every post. If there is a particular post that you wish to draw our attention to, clicking on that icon will do so.

Balti in reponse to your apparent disillusion with the Alert A Moderator thread can I point out something? You went on there to complain about the foe feature. You did not ask for any action, you went there simply to air your views on the point. They were acknowledged.

As Windy has stated, we are keeping an eye on this situation and trying to find a suitable solution. Please do not allow yourselves to descend into petty bickering. If you wish to discuss this further, please do not hesitate to PM me and I will be happy to do so.

Cheers,
DT

A simple question here. When posting about Manny or Floyd, how many of you guys have D4 in the back of your minds hoping to get a rise out of him? I have seen sly digs made by posters (myself included) at manny and exaggerated praise of Floyd (coupled with a sly dig at manny) knowing exactly what will happen. And when the inevitable happens you complain. You cant have it both ways.

azania wrote:A simple question here. When posting about Manny or Floyd, how many of you guys have D4 in the back of your minds hoping to get a rise out of him? I have seen sly digs made by posters (myself included) at manny and exaggerated praise of Floyd (coupled with a sly dig at manny) knowing exactly what will happen. And when the inevitable happens you complain. You cant have it both ways.

We need to go to the ORIGIN of the problem, not the symptom.

I can safely say when I discuss either I try to be as impartial as possible, in the space of two comments you can see me praise and defend both.

BALTIMORA wrote:Why are we even talking about *this* (edited) again? This is what happens every single time.

Then I suggest that we all let it drop and get back to the topic made by the OP.

If anyone does want to discuss the matter further (although I get the impression that the majority don't) then I am contactable via PM and more than happy to do so.

Would a fight against Marquez be better than one against the winner of Khan-Bradley? I don't think so, especially when you consider that Marquez-Pac 3 would probably be at welter.

Assuming Pac won't fight above welter, his next 2 opponents has to be one of Mayweather Jr or the Khan-Bradley winner

wow_junky wrote:Would a fight against Marquez be better than one against the winner of Khan-Bradley? I don't think so, especially when you consider that Marquez-Pac 3 would probably be at welter.

Assuming Pac won't fight above welter, his next 2 opponents has to be one of Mayweather Jr or the Khan-Bradley winner

This is a bone of contention for many; Pacquiao is alternately too small or too large when it suits either himself, Arum, Roach or the sycophantic fanboys. He was big enough to fight that joke of a match for the LMW belt, yet too small to defend it. He'll no doubt be big enough to fight Martinez if Martinez would come down to 150, yet apparently too small to fight Cotto at full welter. All of this is of course without mentioning the fact that some fools think Pacquiao would be absolutely justified in asking Marquez to fight at 147, and not at a weight more accomodating to both parties.

A fight with Marquez at 140lb would not mean as much as a fight against the winner of Khan-Bradley at 147lb, despite all their history. And yes, it is unfair that Pac would ask Marquez to go to 147lb but others to come down in weight, but that's how it is when you are the main ticket seller in the fight, as you well know.

wow_junky wrote:A fight with Marquez at 140lb would not mean as much as a fight against the winner of Khan-Bradley at 147lb, despite all their history. And yes, it is unfair that Pac would ask Marquez to go to 147lb but others to come down in weight, but that's how it is when you are the main ticket seller in the fight, as you well know.

Sure, that's how it is but it smacks of a guy who's unsure of his own ability without an advantage of some kind.

wow_junky wrote:A fight with Marquez at 140lb would not mean as much as a fight against the winner of Khan-Bradley at 147lb, despite all their history. And yes, it is unfair that Pac would ask Marquez to go to 147lb but others to come down in weight, but that's how it is when you are the main ticket seller in the fight, as you well know.

Yet when another boxer asks Manny for a simple test he is accused of ducking. And with Floyd, manny is not the bigger draw.

I personally don't like the idea of Pacquiao taking on Marquez anymore, because it seems like Pacquiao's team have been selective in waiting long enough and studying how good (or not) JMM has looked at a higher weight, before hinting at the third fight. From a marketability perspective though, I think it could have been a much more profitable fight than the Mosley debacle.

Errm, how exactly have they been selective? Marquez has had 1 fight above lightweight, which was 18 months ago. Since then he has fought a couple of fringe contenders at 135lb. Are you suggesting that they haven't gone for the fight because Marquez HASN'T fought above 135lb and looked bad in doing so?

wow_j

At the end of the day Team Pacquaio have said they won't come down any lower than welterweight ever again. That makes him a fully fledged welterweight.

Marquez has been settled at lightweight at some time, therefore is a lightweight.

Getting a lightweight to come up to welterweight is wrong (as it was before with you know who), and it doesn't matter a jot the history the two had when competing on even-ish physical terms.

And if anyone mentions the amount Marquez rehydrates i'll simply point to how sluggish and rubbish he looked in his one foray above 140.

Fight should've happened at lightweight when they had the chance. Only one side who didn't fancy it though and is quoted as saying that the "business" with Marquez was done.

Marquez could also be signing for Top Rank soon making this fight almost a certainty later in the year.

D4thincarnation wrote:Marquez could also be signing for Top Rank soon making this fight almost a certainty later in the year.

When he gets older and slower he will be ripe for Pac.

wow_junky wrote:Errm, how exactly have they been selective? Marquez has had 1 fight above lightweight, which was 18 months ago. Since then he has fought a couple of fringe contenders at 135lb. Are you suggesting that they haven't gone for the fight because Marquez HASN'T fought above 135lb and looked bad in doing so?

Saying that Marquez would have to come up to 147, avoiding him (even worse than they avoided Mosley when he still seemed genuinely dangerous) like the plague. I'm suggesting EXACTLY what you just said. All this talk of Pacquiao being a 'fully fledged welter' is fair enough, but he's not once weighed in at the upper limit, which poo-poos talk of rehydration. He's a lightweight, light welter TOPS who simply doesn't have to cut to make weight.

Coxy, I said the fight shouldn't happen, no need to go off on one!

And at the time, the fight with Hatton at 140lb was considered the better, tougher fight to take - although your revisionist history book probably tells you otherwise!

wow_junky wrote:Coxy, I said the fight shouldn't happen, no need to go off on one!

And at the time, the fight with Hatton at 140lb was considered the better, tougher fight to take - although your revisionist history book probably tells you otherwise!

The fight with Hatton was a good fight to make, although the talk of Hatton being 'too large' was utter nonsense, and the way some of Pacquiao's more idiotic fans go on about it, you'd think Hatton was undefeated when he was (admittedly) demolished by Pacquiao. Hatton himself has said that Mayweather fought and beat the better Ricky Hatton. Pac nut-huggers will point out that Hatton was made to fight at 147, and not at his 'optimum' weight, but unlike say...JMM, Hatton had been a world champion at 147, and had never lost at that weight (or indeed at any).

None of this changes the fact that JMM will only be selected as an opponent for Pacquiao when he is deemed to be an easier night's work, and as I said earlier that smacks of a fighter (Pacquiao) who has been ducking.

wow_j

I wasn't going off at you, and apologies if it came across that i was.

And i never mentioned Hatton, he was #1 ranked at the time at 140 but i don't recall many who were calling for that fight over a trilogy ending fighting between JMM & MP.... Perhaps you could provide me with examples.

It's no secret Roach declared business over between the two, whereas they should've done a Vasquez v Marquez and literally do the 3 fights on the bounce (don't count the 4th as a competitive fight as Vasquez was on a big slide by that point). Just my two cents, can't get away from the fact they didn't fancy fighting on a level playing field, hence the "no more business" comment

Balti

Should have just stopped after "The fight with Hatton was a good fight to make" - the rest of your post is just nonsense trying to get D4 to bite... yet again

Coxy

After the Diaz fight (which is when I presume you would have wanted a 3rd Pac - Marquez fight to take place), I think Hatton is still the better choice of opponent - and there was enough hype and talk around it to justify it over a 3rd Marquez fight

wow_junky wrote:Balti

Should have just stopped after "The fight with Hatton was a good fight to make" - the rest of your post is just nonsense trying to get D4 to bite... yet again

Coxy

After the Diaz fight (which is when I presume you would have wanted a 3rd Pac - Marquez fight to take place), I think Hatton is still the better choice of opponent - and there was enough hype and talk around it to justify it over a 3rd Marquez fight

Balls it is. It's a good win, but too often those who highlight that fact are too quick to dismiss the fact that Hatton had been beaten, and beaten badly, beforehand.

BALTIMORA wrote:Balls it is. It's a good win, but too often those who highlight that fact are too quick to dismiss the fact that Hatton had been beaten, and beaten badly, beforehand.

Should have fought the unbeaten Marquez instead then.

wow_junky wrote:Balti

Should have just stopped after "The fight with Hatton was a good fight to make" - the rest of your post is just nonsense trying to get D4 to bite... yet again

Coxy

After the Diaz fight (which is when I presume you would have wanted a 3rd Pac - Marquez fight to take place), I think Hatton is still the better choice of opponent - and there was enough hype and talk around it to justify it over a 3rd Marquez fight

Disagree completely.

2 very, very close fights and i don't recall any journo or fan wanting Manny to jump up to 140 over fighting Marquez for the 3rd time. Especially when Marquez had gone through a thriller (all of 2 months after the MP/Diaz fight) with Casa from memory.

Scottrf wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Balls it is. It's a good win, but too often those who highlight that fact are too quick to dismiss the fact that Hatton had been beaten, and beaten badly, beforehand.

Should have fought the unbeaten Marquez instead then.

And he fought the "unbeaten" Hatton instead then?

coxy0001 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Balls it is. It's a good win, but too often those who highlight that fact are too quick to dismiss the fact that Hatton had been beaten, and beaten badly, beforehand.

Should have fought the unbeaten Marquez instead then.

And he fought the "unbeaten" Hatton instead then?

Did I say that? My point was that they had both been beaten. Hatton at 140 was still a good win. Marquez would have been a decent option but isn't a that career threatening that he didn't. He'd fought Marquez twice, but what if he won unconvincingly another time? A fourth fight?

Many fighters have been beaten badly before losing again, not everyone can go into a fight unbeaten you know!

Hatton was coming off a win against the number 2 or 3 ranked light welter and was the consensus number 1 at the weight, and had re-entered the rings top 10 p4p. It was a good scalp anyway, but when you consider the manner of victory it makes it all the more impressive.

Scottrf wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Balls it is. It's a good win, but too often those who highlight that fact are too quick to dismiss the fact that Hatton had been beaten, and beaten badly, beforehand.

Should have fought the unbeaten Marquez instead then.

Totally different thing!! Hatton had gone life and death with Lazcano, been given a relatively easy time against powder-puff Paulie, and wasn't the same fighter he had been. JMM on the other hand had taken Pacquiao to the wire even with the knockdowns, and as coxy has just pointed out was coming off the back of a much more impressive win over Casamayor that either of Hatton's two aforementioned comebacks.