Munster v Ulster

First topic message reminder :

Well what a difference a few days make. Leinster stroll past Munster in Thomond, Ulster cruise past Airioni and now definitely fancy their chances on Sunday and rightly so.

My Munster team if players available would be

1. Wian Du Preez
2. Mike Sheery
3. BJ
4. DOC1
5. POC
6. DR
7. POM
8. Coughlan
9. Murray
10. ROG
11. ZEBO
12. Maifi
13. Earls
14. Hurley
15. Jones

Pretty much picks itself bar hooker and back row. Line out was just so bad that Varley has to pay the price. May not have been all his fault but Sherry has been knocking on the door and deserves a shot at this level.

DOC2 had a solid game but I think the partnership of POC and DOC should stand us well. DR to the back row.

Rodders Ulster team

15 Terblanche
14 Trimble
13 Cave
12 Wallace
11 Gilroy
10 IHumph
9 Pienaar
8 Wannenburg
6 Diack
7 Henry
5 Touhy
4 Muller
3 Afoa
2 Best
1 Court

yeah ok mickado if you say so ....

Here we go again

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ulster-victory-would-be-bad-for-ireland-3072155.html

Saw that earlier Clive.

Thanks, Hugh. Another sneering article that requires you to leave all preconceptions about logic and cause-and-effect at the door.

I'm not going to bother going through it point by point to refute it - what would that achieve? They're all points we Ulster fans have made before. But acknowledging the holes in your facile argument is not the same as addressing them, Hugh.

Farrelly, you are a poor journalist.

I've made a comment on the website. (not sure if they will publish it ) I've also pointed out that Tom Court is a Loosehead Prop. Seems Gerry chose to ignore that when making his Afoa comments.

clivemcl wrote:Here we go again

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ulster-victory-would-be-bad-for-ireland-3072155.html

Sorry guys after reading that I have no option to switch my allegience to Munster.... come on Munster do it for Ireland lads .

.... .

That article was actually written by Hugh Farrelly. Such rampant and desperate propaganda hasn't been seen since the years of Nazi Germany.

Like it, Willy - straight in with Godwin's Law!

Yea apparantly our south africans are holding back our contribution to Ireland... or no wait, thats right, two of the form Ireland players in paddy Wallace and dan touhy werent wanted by Declan kidney...

Also, I'm fed up with the Terblanche stuff. he's short term, he is cover for Jared payne, who stands to be IQ in two more years.

Also, Wannenberg is leaving, Roger Wilson is coming.

So next year we will have two NIQs. Somehow I dont think that will register in the minds of these blind buffoons.

Ya it was Hugh Farrelly who wrote it. The same Hugh Farrelly that was positive that Donnacha Ryan would be switching to Leinster.

He's nothing more than a sensationalist who's looking for cheap ways of getting people talking about his articles. And look, it's working.

If anything, I think an Ulster win would be good for Ireland. If I wasn't a Munster fan I'd be going for them. Surely having 3 provinces neck-and-neck (OK, Leinster are still out in front but still...) in the race for silverware is a great thing for Ireland, or am I missing something?

Lads chillax, this is a good sign. It mean we've got them rattled... .

Looks like a few one eyed journos are getting their excuses in early........

If nothing else Munster will earn a moral victory against the Ulsters foreign legion ....

SUFTUM

Have to say that Farrelly article is very embarassing. What a buffoon.

stag and MMC

Obviously, I have always wanted us to win this game.

Now, I want our try-scorers to be NIQ (a fantastic rumbling surge by Afoa, a scorching run in from Terblanche) and for us to win with a last-minute drop goal by Pienaar. I want Farrelly to write a super-whiny, shrill report, saying how it is the death knell for Ireland as a top tier rugby nation, and I want to post under his online article, "slap it up ye".

Is this a dig at Ulster or a back handed dig at the IRFU

I mean the three provinces all play within the same constraints when considering NIQ players, and i was under the impression that the IRFU ratify any signings which are made so could easily pull the plug if they thought Ulsters NIQ contingent was getting out of control

Should Ulster be critised for playing within the rules?

On sunday regardless of nationality 23 Ulstermen will be taking on 23 Munstermen

Can anyone else smell the fear?

Don Alfonso wrote:Obviously, I have always wanted us to win this game.

Now, I want our try-scorers to be NIQ (a fantastic rumbling surge by Afoa, a scorching run in from Terblanche) and for us to win with a last-minute drop goal by Pienaar. I want Farrelly to write a super-whiny, shrill report, saying how it is the death knell for Ireland as a top tier rugby nation, and I want to post under his online article, "slap it up ye".

Dont you worry

At least we'll have some, Stag.

red_stag wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Obviously, I have always wanted us to win this game.

Now, I want our try-scorers to be NIQ (a fantastic rumbling surge by Afoa, a scorching run in from Terblanche) and for us to win with a last-minute drop goal by Pienaar. I want Farrelly to write a super-whiny, shrill report, saying how it is the death knell for Ireland as a top tier rugby nation, and I want to post under his online article, "slap it up ye".

Dont you worry

Out of Ulster's last 15 tries in the rabo , all but 2 have been scored by Irish qualified players (albeit one was from Diack)

Just shows the few IQ we have are also playing there part

Don Alfonso wrote:At least we'll have some, Stag.

Touché Sir!

Been away but decided to put forwards some facts which this bigoted tool obviously chose to ignore.

Tom Court lack of prowess, at TH, has nothing to do with Ulster playing Afoa at TH. If Afoa was injured his place would be taken by Fitzpatrick, Macklin or Cronin - Irishmen everyone. Tom Court is not a TH. Ulster have had less NIQ props than either Leinster or Munster over the last 5/6 years.

Paul Marshall has played more game time, this season, than any IQ SH at Munster or Leinster

Only Devon Toner and Dan Tuohy have played more game time at lock, for the 3 senior provinces, than Lewis Stevenson. Mick O'Driscoll and Damien Browne are very similar.

How have these players been held back. If they have then so have DOC and Boss.

The Whitten one is even worse. Has anybody told him Terblanche is a FB and Whitten is a threequarter. Whitten is kept out of the side by 5 Irishmen - Wallace, Spence, Cave, Trimble and Gilroy.
Infact Ulster are the only one of the three senior provinces where the 6 first choice threequarters are all Irishmen but lets not let the facts get into the way of a piece of mindless bigatory.

This is unacceptable journalism. The man is either unbelievably ignorant or a sectarian bigot (as an FYI I am not a Protestant so that is not the basis for my response in case anyone is narrow minded enough to play that card).

Well said Geoff! Welcome back sir

Any info on the camp or have you been sworn to secrecy??

Whats your gut feeling on this one?

Geoff he is just Munster biased thats all. He is the same when we play Leinster. A Limerick man who has his colours nailed to the mast but cant find the right tone to pull off biased journalism.

I think calling him sectarian is a bit much.

I'll tell you one thing though, an Ulster victory would be bad for Munster.

Geoff- less with the accusations of bigotry if you will.

A muppet misinformed jurno maybe, but lets not slip into the old "everyone hates us because we're from the North" bs... cause it's not true.

The B word has certain connotations, as you well know, associated with the past, so let it go.

MMC wrote:I'll tell you one thing though, an Ulster victory would be bad for Munster.

I think the nature of the Ulster victory, or more pointedly - the nature of a Munster loss, would dictate how bad it really is for Munster. I wouldn't make much of a judgement based on the Leinster game as I think Munster have their certain priorities this year... but this game will have to be much more an in-your-face A-game mood from Munster for Ulster. I have a feeling it will be. The result itself will then be with the fates.... but performance will dictate how bad a loss will be for Munster

* Oh and I'm Greek Orthodox if you are interested in religions (which you obviously are). Israel this isn't.

I reckon we are looking at two main issues here:

- The Battle for Fitness

- The Battle of the Set Piece.

Will Ferris play or wont he? Will Munster be able to call on O'Connell and Murray? These will have a big effect.

Also the scrum and lineout will be massivly important too.

Outside of that it is the usual pillars of knockout rugby - keep your discipline and take your points when the chances are there.

Ferris will play. I've a feeling based on nothing at all.

God I'd love to see him tear around Thomond!! Munster would have no answer for him in the lose.

Reread what I said - he is unbelievably ignorant OR a sectarian bigot.
Not the same as saying he is a sectarian bigot.

Not in the slightest bit interested in religion - very much of a lapsed variety but making clear the reason for my post was most definitely not based on politics or religion. The thing is I am not sure I can say the same about Farrelly. I would hope he isn't a bigot but the tone of his article just put a doubt in my mind.

BoyneRFC I never had anything to let go, being a Irish passport holder myself, but I am sorry some of the tripe I read in the southern rugby press makes me think that not all have let it go.

BoyneRFC wrote:Ferris will play. I've a feeling based on nothing at all.

God I'd love to see him tear around Thomond!! Munster would have no answer for him in the lose.

Really? I think he's a top player but thats a massive exaggeration.

My gut feeling is Ferris will start but will not be 100%

If the quality of rugby journalism is a measuring stick for the propagation of jihad, then Stephen Jones should be in Ireland's version of Guantanamo bay.

Either that, or he's just a low quality journo who hasn't a clue of what he's on about. I don't think we have a choice but to accept the latter.

PS good luck Sunday. Here's one Louth man hoping ye batter Munster. For the good of Irish rugby of course.

red_stag wrote:

BoyneRFC wrote:Ferris will play. I've a feeling based on nothing at all.

God I'd love to see him tear around Thomond!! Munster would have no answer for him in the lose.

Really? I think he's a top player but thats a massive exaggeration.

I dont think so Stag. At least 1 of Munsters back row will be caught minding ROG, so the other 2 will need to be on Ferris. That leaves a helluva lot of room for Ulsters mobile forwards to do damage.

All depends on Ferris being fit, but if he is, advantage Ulster.

Your last line I agree with, if he is advantage Ulster.

The idea that we will have "no answer" to him is an exaggeration though.

geoff998rugby wrote:My gut feeling is Ferris will start but will not be 100%

What about the result Geoff??

Stag agree the set piece will be crucial. Goal kicking too.

I have a feeling we'll play it tight and target the scrum as an area were we can edge it.

The tight 5 battle will be ferocious but I think O'Connells return tips the balance back to Munster a tad there. Whoever plays 6 will have their hands full with Coughlan.

Out wide its the pace of the Munster backs v the footballing skills and guile of Ulster.

Earls v Cave should put a few arguments to bed and Trimble v Zebo will be a cracker!

I would love Munster to opt for a scrum from their first penalty. I think it would send out a top signal.

There are so many match ups within this match.

I got odds of 11/1 for it to be level at half time. I put a fiver on it.

BoyneRFC wrote:If the quality of rugby journalism is a measuring stick for the propagation of jihad, then Stephen Jones should be in Ireland's version of Guantanamo bay.

I woudl certaintly agree the standard of journalism generally is pretty appalling but someone who wrote that article is clueless about rugby.

I read something in the Belfast Telegraph today, without knowing eho the writer was, and was thinking this is really good stuff . When I finished I saw the write was Tyrone Howe - someone who actually knows the game.

Same a week or so ago with Emmett Bryne's article on the scrum.

The difference between the likes of Bryne and Howe compared to Farrelly, Stephen Jones and our own Niall Crozier is they actually understand the game - the latter bunch are self serving ******.

I also get the impression Geoff that the BT and BBCNI etc. walk on eggshells with regards the IRFU and the southern teams, players, press. The press up here is very PC and keen to avoid offence and dragging up political issues. Rugby is the shining example of how all-Ireland sports can be successful so to suggest that it's not all plain sailing is a bit taboo.

By contrast the Southern journos have a carte blanche to tear into Ulster and some of them do it with worrying relish. Unfortunately putting the boot into us seems to go down well with a lot of fans and viewers down there.

I don't think they reflect the thinking of most genuine and knowledgeble southern fans so I wouldn't worry about it.

red_stag wrote:Geoff he is just Munster biased thats all. He is the same when we play Leinster. A Limerick man who has his colours nailed to the mast but cant find the right tone to pull off biased journalism.

I think calling him sectarian is a bit much.

Thats not a Munster biased article. He is just looking for controversy.

There is one valid point though to be got from it and maybe some of you might explain it to me:

How can an Ulster win do much for Ireland rugby considering that 50% of the key players (5) for Ulster are not Irish qualified (the 5 I think of are Best, Ferris, Afoa, Muller & Pienaar).

How much good psychologically will it do team Ireland (heading off to NZ) on tour - made up of Paul O'Connell, Conor Murray, D Ryan, Peter O'Mahony etc. etc. to be knocked out by Ulster. Ireland can't bring Pienaar or Muller on tour.

And before the accusations of bigotry come in from Geoff, I've said the same thing about Rocky Elsom & Nacewa (BJ Botha in Munster), though in Leinster's defence, Rocky left after a year which worked out well.

Those guys are going to be the backbone of Ulster for years to come. That is not doing Irish rugby any good. Paul Marshall will never be anything more than a super sub.

red_stag wrote:I would love Munster to opt for a scrum from their first penalty. I think it would send out a top signal.

There are so many match ups within this match.

I got odds of 11/1 for it to be level at half time. I put a fiver on it.

Wouldn't be a great signal if Ulster push them all over Thomond from that scrum though.

Just sayin'

I don't know what all the fuss is about re: Hugh Farrelly. It's the same as his last 20 articles only with a different headline to make it seem current.

I've went the full circle now with Farrelly - I was appalled by him at first, but now love him, just as I love the crazy old man who gets my bus, smells of turnips and talks to himself!

Good to see he hasn't spoiled the pre-game love-in we're enjoying on here.

Thats a risk you take Rava. What if we kicked to the corner and Ulster won the lineout. What if we tapped and knocked on or missed the kick at goal.

I think it would rally the crowd behind them and maybe have Ulster wondering why they are opting for the scrum. A second of second guessing might be enough to win a penalty and thats a good start.

I think we would fare better than waiting for the first scrum to come along naturally. Of course if there is a scrum before the first penalty is awarded it is useless.

Sin é wrote:

red_stag wrote:Geoff he is just Munster biased thats all. He is the same when we play Leinster. A Limerick man who has his colours nailed to the mast but cant find the right tone to pull off biased journalism.

I think calling him sectarian is a bit much.

Thats not a Munster biased article. He is just looking for controversy.

There is one valid point though to be got from it and maybe some of you might explain it to me:

How can an Ulster win do much for Ireland rugby considering that 50% of the key players (5) for Ulster are not Irish qualified (the 5 I think of are Best, Ferris, Afoa, Muller & Pienaar).

How much good psychologically will it do team Ireland (heading off to NZ) on tour - made up of Paul O'Connell, Conor Murray, D Ryan, Peter O'Mahony etc. etc. to be knocked out by Ulster. Ireland can't bring Pienaar or Muller on tour.

And before the accusations of bigotry come in from Geoff, I've said the same thing about Rocky Elsom & Nacewa (BJ Botha in Munster), though in Leinster's defence, Rocky left after a year which worked out well.

Those guys are going to be the backbone of Ulster for years to come. That is not doing Irish rugby any good. Paul Marshall will never be anything more than a super sub.

Sin, buddy our key men are BJ Botha, Doug Howlett, Paul O'Connell, Ronan O'Gara and Wian du Preez (yes he is we have nobody else of worth).

Its the same thing.

Sin é wrote:There is one valid point though to be got from it and maybe some of you might explain it to me:

How can an Ulster win do much for Ireland rugby considering that 50% of the key players (5) for Ulster are not Irish qualified (the 5 I think of are Best, Ferris, Afoa, Muller & Pienaar).

Well thats just you subjectively picking out 5 players which you deem to be key.

I personally would class Chris Henry, Andrew Trimble and Paddy Wallace as key players but also Wannenburg and Terblanche. Possibly Marshall off the bench. It's a team game.

The key specialist positions to me are Hooker, No 8, SH, Fly-half and full back. Ulster have 3 of those filled with overseas players, dropping to 2 (of which one is a project) next season.

That isn't ideal but nowhere near as bad as some make out.

Rava wrote:

Sin é wrote:

red_stag wrote:Geoff he is just Munster biased thats all. He is the same when we play Leinster. A Limerick man who has his colours nailed to the mast but cant find the right tone to pull off biased journalism.

I think calling him sectarian is a bit much.

Thats not a Munster biased article. He is just looking for controversy.

There is one valid point though to be got from it and maybe some of you might explain it to me:

How can an Ulster win do much for Ireland rugby considering that 50% of the key players (5) for Ulster are not Irish qualified (the 5 I think of are Best, Ferris, Afoa, Muller & Pienaar).

How much good psychologically will it do team Ireland (heading off to NZ) on tour - made up of Paul O'Connell, Conor Murray, D Ryan, Peter O'Mahony etc. etc. to be knocked out by Ulster. Ireland can't bring Pienaar or Muller on tour.

And before the accusations of bigotry come in from Geoff, I've said the same thing about Rocky Elsom & Nacewa (BJ Botha in Munster), though in Leinster's defence, Rocky left after a year which worked out well.

Those guys are going to be the backbone of Ulster for years to come. That is not doing Irish rugby any good. Paul Marshall will never be anything more than a super sub.

Best & Ferris are 2 of the 5 Key players. Afoa, Muller, Pienaar are the other 3.

Yes but please do explain how that is any different from Munster as stag has pointed out sin?

Sin é wrote: How can an Ulster win do much for Ireland rugby considering that 50% of the key players (5) for Ulster are not Irish qualified (the 5 I think of are Best, Ferris, Afoa, Muller & Pienaar).

Those guys are going to be the backbone of Ulster for years to come. That is not doing Irish rugby any good. Paul Marshall will never be anything more than a super sub.

Depends on what you consider key - there is no one more key than Wallace.

At the risk of repeating myself Paul Marshall had had more game time than any other IQ SH,
that includes 2 HC starts.
Muller has one year left on his contract - so not sure how you get years to come from.

Also what good does it do Irish rugby that Munster will start with 2 NIQ props.
Ulster by contrast have to go back a long long way before you find a NIQ LH

Next year we could easily be playing with only 1 NIQ player, from positions 6 to 14, in the squad.

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:There is one valid point though to be got from it and maybe some of you might explain it to me:

How can an Ulster win do much for Ireland rugby considering that 50% of the key players (5) for Ulster are not Irish qualified (the 5 I think of are Best, Ferris, Afoa, Muller & Pienaar).

Well thats just you subjectively picking out 5 players which you deem to be key.

I personally would class Chris Henry, Andrew Trimble and Paddy Wallace as key players but also Wannenburg and Terblanche. Possibly Marshall off the bench. It's a team game.

The key specialist positions to me are Hooker, No 8, SH, Fly-half and full back. Ulster have 3 of those filled with overseas players, dropping to 2 (of which one is a project) next season.

That isn't ideal but nowhere near as bad as some make out.

I think of Key players as game changers - Paul O'Connell, Ronan O'Gara for Munster. Ferris & Pienaar for Ulster. Leinster have a few more than what the others have - Rocky (in the past) and BOD & Nacewa are probably the most consistent (Sexton has done it once).

Sin é wrote:

Rava wrote:

Sin é wrote:

red_stag wrote:Geoff he is just Munster biased thats all. He is the same when we play Leinster. A Limerick man who has his colours nailed to the mast but cant find the right tone to pull off biased journalism.

I think calling him sectarian is a bit much.

Thats not a Munster biased article. He is just looking for controversy.

There is one valid point though to be got from it and maybe some of you might explain it to me:

How can an Ulster win do much for Ireland rugby considering that 50% of the key players (5) for Ulster are not Irish qualified (the 5 I think of are Best, Ferris, Afoa, Muller & Pienaar).

How much good psychologically will it do team Ireland (heading off to NZ) on tour - made up of Paul O'Connell, Conor Murray, D Ryan, Peter O'Mahony etc. etc. to be knocked out by Ulster. Ireland can't bring Pienaar or Muller on tour.

And before the accusations of bigotry come in from Geoff, I've said the same thing about Rocky Elsom & Nacewa (BJ Botha in Munster), though in Leinster's defence, Rocky left after a year which worked out well.

Those guys are going to be the backbone of Ulster for years to come. That is not doing Irish rugby any good. Paul Marshall will never be anything more than a super sub.

Best & Ferris are 2 of the 5 Key players. Afoa, Muller, Pienaar are the other 3.

Sin é, as a renowned statistician, even you should know that 2 out of 5 is 40%