Fights that never happened

First topic message reminder :

That should have happened.

The obvious one is the Manny/Floyd issue. But this is not about them and that fight will probably happen. Its not a thread about them either.

In short, which fights that didn't happen but should have happened.

Frazier/Norton is one that comes to mind. (Frazier via KO)
The Hagler/SRL rematch (Hagler by KO)

Any others? And who would have won.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The evidence is Vito drew with the guy.......Mugabi gave him fits for 11 rounds...Leonard a welter that hadn't fought for three years beat him and Curry was well known for going 12 and 15 rounds in his stride...

Curry was also in his pomp and better than Mugabi...

Your evidence is thrown out..

You've only ever seen the mccallum/honey fights haven't you.?

He drew with Vito in the eyes of 3 men only. Curry had a weak chin. Great boxer but weak chinned.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Like to give you a pat on the head....
You could always try, son...wouldn't advise it though!

Yes I used to play the violin in the small hours when I couldn't sleep.

Shouldn't have bothered when we have the world's smallest violin playing just for you on a 24 hour loop

TRUSS

Mugabi lasted 11 rounds because he was a tough SOB, and took a career ending beating in that fight - Curry wouldn't have taken anywhere near as much punishment as Mugabi did before caving. And I'm sure you're aware that after the Vito "draw" Hagler said he would never leave a fight in the hands of the judges, hence the 12 KOs in 13 title fights. Hagler would hunt him down and put him out of his misery.

And Curry's best win above welter was against who exactly?

Won't be getting much sleep soon...

No come on Hagler wasn't that far ahead of Vito......He didn't do enough period..Wasn't a big disgrace that decision.....Remember Hagler-Duran?????

Duran was a blown up lightweight..one point wasn't it?

Mugabi was a tough son of a bitch!!!!!

Quit against Thomas, quit against Hagler, battered off Norris and almost started crying against James hard rock Green..

You must have mistaken him for someone else mate.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Won't be getting much sleep soon...

No come on Hagler wasn't that far ahead of Vito......He didn't do enough period..Wasn't a big disgrace that decision.....Remember Hagler-Duran?????

Duran was a blown up lightweight..one point wasn't it?

One judge had it even going into the last round. Blind bar-steward.

Dont forget that Holmes thoroughly outboxed Cooney yet needed a KO to win. So much for judges.

azania wrote:

wow_junky wrote:TRUSS

I just can't see Curry lasting in a 12 or 15 round fight against Hagler, the evidence is massively against it happening - Curry was stopped multiple times below middle, Hagler had 12 KOs in 13 title defences.

Az

Judah's chin isn't that bad, he was only stopped against Tszyu and Cotto, both of which were very very hard punchers at the weight (Cotto has only gone the distance with Malignaggi, Clottey and Mosely in title fights - all of which have very very solid chins).

Zab is not as good as Floyd. Its that simple. Floyd is probably the best defensive fighter of his generation. He stand in the pocket and doesn't get hit. Plus he has a very strong chin by virtue of the fact that he has not been decked or seriously wobbled. SSM caught him with a howitzer yet within 20 seconds he had regrouped.

It's never as simple as fighter A is better than fighter B therefore he will win. Tszyu had a great style for taking Floyd out (who was wobbled by Corley at light welter, but his chin does appear sturdy - I would hesitate before people it above Judah's on the virtue that Judah takes more shots and only been troubled twice by huge hitters).

Like I said TRUSS, Mugabi was ruined by the Hagler fight, it's plain as day for everyone to see. He got battered for 11 rounds by an ATG hard punching middle.

Didn't Kostya get KO by Phillips? Floyd is simply too skilled for KT.

And as I said, Phillips (like Hatton) was a big, come forward fighter. Slick boxers were not Tsyzu's kryptonite!

Styles make fights, and Tsyzu had the style to upset Floyd in the same way he did to Judah

Mate..Holmes was ahead on all three cards so enough of lies to sustain an argument..

He quit against Marvin!!! quit against Thomas.....Almost started crying against Green....Squashed off Norris

Mate stop trying to change your argument....

He wasn't that tough........Just a bully. history proves it.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Mate..Holmes was ahead on all three cards so enough of lies to sustain an argument..

He quit against Marvin!!! quit against Thomas.....Almost started crying against Green....Squashed off Norris

Mate stop trying to change your argument....

He wasn't that tough........Just a bully. history proves it.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm certain that he was ahead on the cards.

History also proves that Curry wasn't that tough, so why doesn't that apply to him as well?

wow_junky wrote:And as I said, Phillips (like Hatton) was a big, come forward fighter. Slick boxers were not Tsyzu's kryptonite!

Styles make fights, and Tsyzu had the style to upset Floyd in the same way he did to Judah

yes, but Zab is no floyd. Floyd is very adabtable and can change styles mid-fight.

ha ha changing the argument are we from Mugabi was tough..

Starling 1 and 2 show how tough the guy was plus his beatings against Norris and Nunn....

Sorry mate.....Anybody gets squashed off the mccallum right and the doctor stopped the honey fight..

nice try.

When has Floyd shown he can adapt against a hard hitting prime boxer puncher like Tsyzu? I must have missed that fight!

TRUSS

So basically none of Curry's stoppage losses count and Hagler took 11 rounds to KO Mugabi, therefore Curry UD Hagler? Is that the gist of it?

wow_junky wrote:And as I said, Phillips (like Hatton) was a big, come forward fighter. Slick boxers were not Tsyzu's kryptonite!

Styles make fights, and Tsyzu had the style to upset Floyd in the same way he did to Judah

Problem is, I don't see Floyd getting over confident and hanging his chin out for Kostya to take a swing at. He couldn't get near Zab in round one and and whilst he did do a good job of closing him down in the 2nd, it was still Judah's arrogance as much as Tzsyu's right hand that led to his downfall. Floyd always plays the percentages and wouldn't take any risks...like facing Tzsyu in the first place!

Dave

Depends which way you look at it. Round 1 was a feeler round, then as soon as Tsyzu had an opening it was lights out for Judah, you could argue that Floyd wouldn't give that opening to him... but Corley wobbled him, so who knows? I just think that KT was bad news for slick boxer types

You're changing the argument..I'm just rebutting your summary dismissal of Curry's chances....

Explaining why Curry could improve on Mugabi's challenge of Hagler..

Fact is Leonard got dropped by a journeyman
Vito went 15 and drew with the guy
lightweight Duran came within a point..
Hagler struggled with mugabi
Mugabi was a 154 pounder..
Hagler lost to a blown up welter.
Leonard got stopped off a blown up lightweight..

end of.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You're changing the argument..I'm just rebutting your summary dismissal of Curry's chances....

Explaining why Curry could improve on Mugabi's challenge of Hagler..

Fact is Leonard got dropped by a journeyman
Vito went 15 and drew with the guy
lightweight Duran came within a point..
Hagler struggled with mugabi
Mugabi was a 154 pounder..
Hagler lost to a blown up welter.
Leonard got stopped off a blown up lightweight..

end of.

This is probably the best post I've ever read, it's so bad on so many levels lol

Wowjunky, you're right, it IS how you look at it but personally I don't see Round 1 as a feeler for KT....the fight with Sharmba Mitchell...most definitely...but the Judah fight I think he was struggling until Zab's ego got in the way.

So bad like your last argument you can't refute it..Go away Junky you aren't worth it..

Just hit and run...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You're changing the argument..I'm just rebutting your summary dismissal of Curry's chances....

Explaining why Curry could improve on Mugabi's challenge of Hagler..

Fact is Leonard got dropped by a journeyman
Vito went 15 and drew with the guy
lightweight Duran came within a point..
Hagler struggled with mugabi
Mugabi was a 154 pounder..
Hagler lost to a blown up welter.
Leonard got stopped off a blown up lightweight..

end of.

Hit and run? I've been here for an hour debating it with you!

Curry didn't have a sturdy enough chin to go 12 or 15 rounds with Hagler, he was stopped multiple times by lesser punchers.

Leonard having a flash KD or being stopped at age 41 doesn't mean he didn't have a granite chin - he went 15 rounds with a prime Tommy Hearns, arguably the hardest hitting welter of all time - are you honestly saying he had a bad chin?

Duran did come within a point of beating Hagler, but Duran was a better middle than Curry (does Curry have a win above 147lb that compares to Barkley? I don't think so)

Hagler beat Mugabi down, was ahead on the scorecards and stopped him - it may have been harder than it needed to be because he went to war, but the result was never in doubt

Dave

I dunno, Judah was a nutter but I don't think it was his confidence after 1 round that led to his downfall - I'll rewatch it later anyway to refresh my memory

Why didn't he have a sturdy enough chin???

Leonard was decked twice off Tommy and once off Lalonde....

Wobbled off Duran too..

Duran was a better middle than curry??? Why was he...because he beat Barkley!! lost to Robbie sims at middle..

Barkley lost to lot's of journeymen before lucking out against Tommy..

Hagler was outboxed early by Mugabi...

You can't back your arguments up..

Junky,

You don't go in against someone calling themselves "Thunder from Down Under" then drop your hands unless you're ...
A/ A nutter
B/ Over confident
C/ Arrogant
D/ All of the above

Tzsyu's power wasn't a secret so Judah knew what to expect. I just think the ease with which he was handling him in the first made him a little too cocksure of himself

Hahaha good old Don Curry Truss Fan Appreciation has begun.

Am sorry but Curry does not beat Hagler. Haglers pressure would begin to take its toll and he would be out of there between 9 - 12.

No question marks whether he could pyshically do it but under the constant pressure and thudding punches of Hagler. Cant see it am afraid. Especially as he got smashed to pieces by the Raggamuffin Man @ WELTER

Fights that could have happended that would have liked to seen.

Lewis - Bowe
Benn - Toney

TRUSS,

Who did Curry beat above welter that was better than Barkley? Against the best guys he faced at 154lb and 160lb he got KO'd, and Hagler was better than McCallum, Nunn and Norris - if he couldn't handle the pace against those guys how would he survive against Hagler?

Dave

It was hardly a Campbell - Peden moment was it? I thought it was just well timed by Tszyu... but as I said I will rewatch it

I'm sorry but Curry doesn't beat Hagler.....Well that's that then.

You think Barkley was good!!! Lost to Robbie Sims and Amparo....

He was a trialhorse that got lucky..watch the Hearns fight..

Don't forget that almost every publication had Barkley winning that fight by three rounds....WBC and a hispanic fighter...

Mate we are talking about horses for courses....Not suggesting Curry beats other middles like Nunn etc just saying that a Mugabi-struggling-welter losing to Hagler was there for Curry to take..

Curry didn't fight at middle until he lost his last fight to Nunn......

Me I think guys Like Lupe Aquino at 154 were much better quality than Barkley..

Alright, I can't see either of us changing our minds - I just can't see Curry having a chance against Hagler as he did zilch above welter and got KO'd by lesser guys when trying.

Lets leave it at that - it's almost home time anyway.

He won the wbc 154 pound crown........Beat former champs Santos, Aquino etc..

And beat rosi for the title....

do me a favor..you don't know anything about him do you!

Truss - are you suggesting that Curry moves up and beats a 160lb fighter, who regularly weighed in at 175 on fightnight, after being unoffective at anything above 154. Someone with a fearsome body attack and a granite chin?

And your basic argument seems to be that Hagler only just beat many of his opponent. Not accounting for the fact that he was frequently (always) robbed by judges.

If Curry couldn't even beat Jacquot - why does he beat Hagler?

Or are you referring to the more majestic 147lb version of curry? The one who had a prime as short as Tyson?

But Oxring... Leonard got KO'd by lightweight Camacho and Hagler couldn't even stop Leonard so how would he KO Curry? The maths don't lie!!

Duran had better wins above welter than Curry, Moore, Barkeyl, Cuevas, even his performances against Benitez and Hagler are better than anything Curry managed.

If he regularly weighed in at 175 why didn't he fight Spinks?????

Mate I'm suggesting that Leonard outboxed this guy, Mugabi outboxed him and gave him a great fight..

And that bu 1986/87 Curry was a natural 154 pounder like Mugabi...

Duran did take Hagler close....

Curry was a quality operator much more so than Mugabi..

Mugabi won a couple of rounds in a war, he didn't outbox him!

TRUSS, how do you see Duran - Curry and Leonard - Curry fights going down?

Mugabi was ahead going into the 6th and he was just a crude slugger.

Fact is Vito drew with the guy, a lightweight was one round from winning and a welter beat him...

so it's fair to say the no1 p4p boxer on the planet in 86 would have a good shot at taking him.

A few things, agree with the general consensus that Curry stands no chance against Hagler, it should be noted that Duran was a better Welterweight than Curry, beating Leonard and Palomino out does anything that Don ever did.

Jones while speedy didn't possess huge power, he certainly doesn't hit as hard as the G-man did so an early KO against Benn is well out the question, again an easy points win for RJJ

Problem with a Tzuyu/Mayweather fight for me is that it's a major step up from anything they would have fought before, see Mayweather eeking to a points win like he did against Judah but doesn't have it at all easy.

That is the ONLY question regarding Hagler's career. Spinks called him out for years, and he never moved up.

Probably because he'd have been the smaller man in that fight - and his style was built around strength.

Anyway - 1986/87 - Curry was losing to McCallum. Its all very well to say he was outboxing McCallum (he was) but he caught that body shot in the 5th. The fight was scheduled for 15 rounds, as it would have been against Hagler. What were his chances of avoiding a shot for that length of time?

Mugabi gave Hagler fits - but Hagler was still ahead in the fight when he stopped Mugabi. And the Leonard fight couldn't have been closer - and Curry was NEVER as good as Leonard.

Curry looked wonderful in his (all too brief) prime.

But he didn't beat enough top-class operators and too frequently came up short. Using Starling as evidence that he beats Hagler? Please - Starling doesn't come close to Hagler's level.

Saying someone was ahead in a fight early doesn't matter! Its like saying that Hatton was "winning the second by a country mile" against Manny until that left detonated on his chin.

We all laughed at Hatton for that statement - saying Curry was on his way to winning before the body shot or Mugabi was on his way to winning before being outboxed and stop is the same line of argument.

It matters because we can get a perception of how another fight might go and a boxers dwindling skills and deterioration..

Mugabi beat Hagler to the punch regularly and outmanoeuvred him.....

If the fight didn't matter why did Leonard allude to the Mugabi fight when he decided to take Hagler on

Mugabi beat Hagler to the punch regularly and outmanoeuvred him.....


Not from round seven onwards he didn't!

We are talking about Boxing Dave...........

Fact is guys mugabi with all his crude skills was the main reason Leonard took the fight...

If Marv had so much trouble with John and subsequently a welter..then who's to say the world's p4p no 1 couldn't have done him..

Well Curry simply wasn't as good as Leonard nor was he as good as Hearns or Duran who were both beaten by Hagler. Can't see how Curry stands a chance.

I'm not saying he was.....

God allowed!!!!!!!!! I'm saying Hagler was past it in 1986/7 and Mugabi gave him lots of trouble......Curry was more cultured than Mugabi...

That's the major difference though, using Mugabi as an example doesn't work because he didn't fight like Curry

Curry was more cultured than Mugabi...

He was more cultured than Lloyd as well...didn't do him much good did it?

For all the trouble, Mugabi gave hagler, he still succumbed at the end. Allow people to suggest there's a possibility that, despite the advanced stage of his career, Hagler still retained enough for it not to be the one-sided job you seem to be suggesting...or can't we have an opinion?

Exactly he was in Hagler's face and still outboxed him...where as Leonard just danced around him....

I think we can summise the Don's style was a cross between the two..

I retract my last post as Curry in 86 was better than Leonard circa 1987..

Mugabi was far stronger than Curry so could physically compete with Hagler whereas Leonard ran ran and then ran some more

I know you love Curry, Truss; but to beat Hagler? Come on mate!