Most under rated/unfufilled talent?

First topic message reminder :

As the title says, who do you think hasnt quite fulfilled there potential or never got a fair crack on the international scene?

For me i feel, Bob Casey was pretty hard done by. Would have liked to have seen him given a proper run in an Ireland jersey.

I also cant understand why James Simpson Daniel never added to his caps. I know he had a problem with injuries but when fit what a player in my opinion.

Cullen was chucked in at outside centre. Don't get me started on that rodders. Lomu still had a lot to give and he said that he was never 100 per cent even in his so-called prime.

But all I'm saying when talking about those illustrious careers, it´s very harsh to call them underrated or unfulfilled. Lots of defences will attest to that!

Now for a controversial one:

Austin Healey.

He had an international career that most players can only dream of. Yet he should have been the greatest English scrum half of all time.

Various factors including verstility (he even started a test for england at 10), his gob and his own impatiernce restricted what he should have achieved.

Ian Jones, the former Llanelli full back was a great unfulfilled talent. Good in defence and under the high ball but in attack he was something else. Fantastic pace (deceptively so), vision and sidestep. Scored one of the best indiviual tries I've seen in the Schweppes cup final in the old Arms Park, against Pontypool I think. Unfortunately he didnt appear to keen on training and enjoyed a bit too much of the social side of life. The Henson/Cips of his day without the media attention players get these days.

Hosea and Rico Gear....both left out of different all black world cup squads when they were awesome....still don't understand them being left behind the Gear family must feel hard done by !!

Oh also Joeli Vidiri, 6ft 3 and one of the fastest rugby players i've ever seen with 43 tries in 61 games for the auckland blues...all blacks career limited to 2 caps due to a kidney problem....used to play with jonah for counties scoring 56 tries in 76 games...this guy should have been an international legend.

Rupeni Caucaunibuca could be considered an unfulfilled talent

Does anyone think that as useful as versatility is for a team (players covering multiple positions at International level are so helpful), it severely hurts the player's chances at individual greatness? They never get the game time in one position to settle and get the best out of their talent (see Tait, Healey, Hook, Earls etc)

Caucaunibuca urinated his talent against a wall

He could have been great had he pulled his finger out!

leinsterbaby wrote:Luke Fitzgerald. We were told early on in his career he had prodigious talent, he certainly does have pace, power, skill and good hands. However he hasn't quite learned to harness all his qualitys and produce consistently high performances. Sometimes I feel he needs to drop a lung and make smarter decisions.

I was going to mention him but I think it's too early to say.I think the signs this year have been very good that he's finally starting to make the most of his talents and if he stays with Leinster I think Schmidt will work his magic and get the best out of him.I expect him to be challenging for a Lions Test shirt next summer.

Bastareaud seems to be in the test wilderness yet is a great talent and has been badly managed by the FRU. He should have been an ever present since debuting 3 years ago.

Ruan Pienaar did very little in a bok jersey and was thrown all over the backline by PDV. Difficult to see how he will come back now Hougaard has come through and Meyer is coach.
Personally I'd have Pienaar over Hougaard but given Meyers blood is blou I can't see it happening.

Schalk Brits, Rory Kockott, Peter Grant, Stefan Terblanche were all mis used either by not getting capped or capped and then quickly forgotten.

Even Luke Watson if he applied himself could have been a very good test player... but that was more to do with his own personal objectives with the springboks then being one being mis used.

tigertattie wrote:Caucaunibuca urinated his talent against a wall

He could have been great had he pulled his finger out!

Some unhealthy mixed metaphor imagery there mate. I think he ate his talent away more likely.

Aye Johnny Beattie but he is coming back to form - plays for the Warriors v Munster tomorrow

For Scotland there have been a few:

James Craig - rapid flyer in the early 00's, sevens star, ignored so that players like James McLaren, Roland Reid and Andy Henderson could play on the wing. He was given one cap, against Australia, and funnily enough didn't go well against Joe Roff on debut, so was discarded. Nice one McGeechan.

Richard Metcalfe - enormous lump of a second row. Not much used by Scotland then got injured.

Chris Paterson - ok, had a great and long career as a winger and full back, but most in Scottish rugby wanted him to stay at 10 when he left Gala, but McGeechan, Williams and Hadden preferred Hodge, Godman and Parks - mediocrity ensued.

Ben Cairns - quick and fleet footed outside centre at Edinburgh. Sean Lamont has more caps at 13 than Cairns. Say no more.

Steve Hanley I think was unlucky. A great club player, scored on his debut and never troubled the test side again. Perhaps he should also be remembered as being in the game that featured perhaps one of the more unlikely England centre partnerships: Barrie-Jon Mather at 12 & Jonny Wilkinson at 13...

David Rees was another blighted by injuries - still remember him skinning Jonah. Also Phil Greening should have become England's most capped hooker by now bar injury and Dan Ward-Smith should have had Nick Easter's 40-odd caps were it not for his more than troublesome knee.

Ollie Smith is an excellent shout. Would have loved to have seen him as the regular England 13 instead of Crash Bang Tindall or Noon. Trevor Woodman's career was cut brutally short - he was already pretty good, and could have become superb. And I think Nick Greenstock never got the chances he deserved.

I'll never forget wondering whether Sinbad could cut it at international level, before seeing him pull off an outrageous dummy and burning Lomu on the outside for a try against the Baa Baas. Did a similar move against NZ which led to a JW try.

Ledge, but just 10 caps.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Caucaunibuca urinated his talent against a wall

He could have been great had he pulled his finger out!

Some unhealthy mixed metaphor imagery there mate. I think he ate his talent away more likely.

A bit like fat Basterau

The most unfulfilled talent to ever play rugby in New Zealand was a guy called Nicky Allen,A real funny guy and an utter larrikin out on the syrup,I had the pleasure of spending a bit of time with him and his Grammar mates.

Nicky was an utterly talented first five 8,he only played a couple of games as an All Black.

Once when the Abs were travelling (in the UK I think) the then coach laurie Mains had a dilema with goal kickers,and at training one day he went up to Nicky and was questioning him whether he was confident in doing the goal kicking in the test that was being played the following weekend.
Nicky (always full of confidence and a bit of an exhibitionist) replied to Laurie "Sure,just watch this". So Nicky grabbed a ball walked over to the 22 and standing dead dead in front of the goalposts slammed his heel into the ground, placed the ball,and checked its placement and direction,Nicky then turned around and faced the goal posts at the other end of the field,lifted his leg and kicked the ball WITH HIS HEEL,the ball went over,Laurie Mains has always said that guy could have been one of the greatest.

Nicky died at the age of 26 as a result of a high tackle.Google him.

Some say that Carter is as good as Nicky.

R.I.P. IN YOU MAD BARSTID.

Yes he was great. One of those primed for greatness. From memory had a blindrr against Wales in Cardiff...1980?
Was in a coma a while after wasnt he. Tackle was in oz somewhere?
3 brothers who had huge promise were the Stirlings of St Stephens College. Played with two of them at Otahuhu.

George was St Stephens first xv captain and Auckland just before all 3 were killed in a car crash on the way to the east coast north island. Father and mother were in car following.

Bad day for maori and NZ rugby. Sam particularly was already spoken of as a future all black.

Thats right it was either England or Wales and he beat them on his own,by just steering the All Blacks around all day.

Sort of reminds me of Nick Duncombe.

Died in 2003 of a short illness aged 21. Had just got capped by England and seemed to be set to take over from Dawson once the world cup was over.

We'll never know how good this kid could have been. RIP fella.

I don't think Dwayne Peel is an unfulfilled talent. He got 81 caps for the Scarlets, 76 caps for Wales and 3 for the Lions. I think he's got 56 for Sale Sharks now? He should've been called up more internationally since 2009, but he's not done badly with his career.

There's lots of players who showed promise/potential but then injuries stopped them progressing.

Simon Geoghegan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzvnexjWJYg&feature=autoplay&list=PLD678F0FF0D466BCA&lf=results_video&playnext=2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc2VZb1Fm2g&feature=BFa&list=PLD678F0FF0D466BCA&lf=results_video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNvmWkiaqyo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVSpGi7MVDI

Cari
Therse a difference between players who showed promise/potential but then injuries stopped them progressing, as opposed to:
Players who showed promise/potential but then death stopped them progressing.

Laurie - my comment wasn't specifically in response to yours, I was generalising in response to the original post. I hadn't read all of the comments in between.

Cari
Fair call.