Springboks vs England, squad announcements and matchday thread.

[Biltong]

First topic message reminder :

I will update as more information is released.

Springbok team announced for the first test vs England.

15 Zane Kirchner, caps 14
14 JP Pietersen, caps 42
13 Jean de Villiers (captain), caps 72
12 Frans Steyn, caps 47
11 Bryan Habana, caps 74
10 Morné Steyn, caps 34
9 Francois Hougaard, caps 15
8 Pierre Spies, caps 47
7 Willem Alberts, caps 9
6 Marcell Coetzee, caps 0
5 Juandré Kruger, caps 0
4 Eben Etzebeth, caps 0
3 Jannie du Plessis, caps 30
2 Bismarck du Plessis, caps 42
1 Beast Mtawarira, caps 32

Replacements:
16 Adriaan Strauss, caps 9
17 Coenie Oosthuizen, caps 0
18 Flip van der Merwe, caps 11
19 Keegan Daniel, caps 1
20 Ruan Pienaar, caps 51
21 Pat Lambie, caps 11
22 Wynand Olivier, caps 34

I am surprised and happy to see Eben etzebeth in the starting XV and Strauss on the bench, Meyer has gone for a 4-3 split on the bench which is interesting. The pack has 160 combined caps with 4 debutants, the back line has a combined cap of 302 caps.

I am actually rather impressed with Meyer's selections. The English may see this pack as vulnerable and inexperienced, but I think it is a rather exciting pack. full of mobility and physicality.

England Team:

15 Mike Brown, caps 3
14 Chris Ashton, caps 23
13 Manusamoa Tuilagi, caps 10
12 Brad Barritt, caps 5
11 Ben Foden, caps 26
10 Owen Farrell, caps 5
9 Ben Youngs, caps 17
8 Ben Morgan, caps 5
7 Chris Robshaw (C), caps 6
6 Tom Johnson, 0 caps
5 Geoff Parling, 2 caps
4 Mouritz Botha, 6 caps
3 Dan Cole, 25 caps
2 Dylan Hartley, 34 caps
1 Joe Marler, 0 caps


Replacements:
16 Lee Mears, 38 caps
17 Paul Doran Jones, 3 caps
18 Tom Palmer, 37 caps
19 Phil Dowson, 5 caps
20 Lee Dickson, 0 caps
21 Toby Flood, 46 caps
22 Jonathan Joseph, 0 caps

[doctor_grey]

An afternoon moving rocks and boulders in the garden gave me time to think about the matches today.

I think the match between the Boks and England was pretty much what I expected with a few exceptions. Firstly, this was by far the most physical match of the day. Plaudits to players on both sides for dishing it out and taking it in kind. Real gut-sucking Rugby. I think either England or the Boks would have given the Wallabies fits with their strength and power, but might have been a half-step too slow for the ABs. But they both will develop and improve.

England held their own in the first half. But I think the South African commentators, who were on the tv broadcast I had here in New Jersey, were astute when they mentioned that Meyer played comninations who worked together in the past. I think this paid off with some of the link play and counterattack. The Boks front row held a small edge in the scrums, but were more physical across the pitch. The England second half front row subs were clobbered. The 'X' factor was Willem Alberts who was simply immense.

England, on the other hand, were willing in front-up attack and defense, and were quite physical themselves. But, in the past, never needed to raise their game to the physical level offered by the Boks. I think they were undone right there. This enabled the holes to open in the second half. The other problem was the lack of attacking creativity, which was seen in the 6 Nations with this team, so not a true surprise. No great new surprise players for them, as Alberts was for the Boks. In fact, just the opposite when Doran-Jones and Lee Mears came on, the Boks dominated. Easily. Also the pairing of Flood and Farrell made the midfield defensively weak, generally not a good thing against a team like the Boks.

Whither England in the next match? Well they were close enough to win this one, but lost it late:
Flood must start to get the backs moving. At least a little.
Possibly Corbs (if healthy) over Marler - Marler would have been a great sub at 55-60 minutes.
Palmer over Parling - Parling offered nothing outside the lineout
Possibly Haskell as a sub in the next match (I liked Johnson, so did the SA commentators)
Possibly Anthony Allen, but is his defense strong enough to step all that straight up attack.

What do you all thnk?

[anotherworldofpain]

England try to take on SA at SA specialty. Is very tricky to win like that. You need to make your own game and make them play to it. Get in a kicking battle and direct game to the ruck area and you will always come second.

[ChequeredJersey]

Allen's D is ok, and he plays with Tuilagi which will help.

15- Brown or Foden, torn between continuing with the 2FB experiment. Probably stick with it, both made mistakes but were generally good today. More running less kicking though (and don't say that defeats the point in playing Brown, he is an excellent attacking FB just like Foden)
Wings- Ashton (with Flood I think he could be back!) and Foden who looked fine on the wing UNLESS Wade has a stormer. Then it's a hard call.
13- Manu. Got to be.
12- Allen, under strict orders to pass the ball more than he does for Tigers
10- Flood. We can't go into the game with a kick and defend plan
9- Youngs
8- Morgan but we have to use him more and he has to look for work
7- Captain Robshaw. From what I saw he was good today. More link work.
6- Johnson- encouraging signs
SR- really unsure, it's too underpowered but not sure what the other options are. Better idea after Wednesday
3- Cole. No real choice
2- Hartley
1- Corbs if fit, Marler if not

Subs- Marler/Mullan (Cole is less likely to come off than Corbs and we've seen that none of our options can cover both sides of the scrum in w way that won't result in carnage), Grey/Youngs (maybe Youngs. Not Mears), a SR, Haskell (covers all back row, good player, experienced, way more dynamic than Dowson), Care (surely? Best allrounder out of our scrummies and Plays at the pace we need to beat the Boks. One stupid pointless mistake though and he's dropped), Farrell/Goode (Goode fits plan better, but Farrell's kicking and 12 cover in case Flood's kicking is poor), JJ (actually let him play this time?)

[Biltong]

Interesting read CJ

[yappysnap]

Not sure i'd start Corbs CJ, if he has been injured since the 6N's then this will be his first competative game back. I'm not even sure if he'll be in the mid weekers.

The front row seemed alright for most of the match, it was losing Botha's grunt behind them and then the subs which buried us in the scrums.

Other then that I agree with the rest of your team. I do wish we had 36 for the bench fly half spot though and Attwood to start along side Parling.

[thomh]

I think Marler did more than enough to retain the shirt, and Lancaster described his performance as outstanding. His side of the scrum held up well (I thought it was Cole who was struggling to be honest), he offered himself as a ball carrier and made 9 tackles. Stats say he missed two but IIRC they were both in broken play and more a case of Habana or someone just beating him for pace than anything.

Tuilagi has to start. He's been our best attacking threat for a year now, made some big carries yesterday and is probably the only player in the squad who could have made that try saving tackle in the first half. Without him there South Africa could just throw big carriers at our midfield all afternoon. The big question though is inside centre. Could someone like Allen really get through the same defensive work as Barritt? Unsure.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

England try to take on SA at SA specialty. Is very tricky to win like that. You need to make your own game and make them play to it. Get in a kicking battle and direct game to the ruck area and you will always come second.

Whereas last time they came over to England they tries to beat them the same way they had australia and got the poo kicked out of them.

The main problem england have is that SA are a better side. Pushing them close and finishing within moral victory distance is a marked improvement on the 30+ drubbings the B team took on the previous tour.

[thomh]

PSW - I agree. If you try and match the Boks for physicality then people say you can't beat them at their own game. If you try to run the ball around them you get nailed and the same people say that you need to match them for physicality or you have no hope.

[DaveM]

I'd gamble, move Tuilagi to IC and start JJ.

Elsewhere now is the time to start Flood ahead of Farell at 10, with Farrell moving to the bench, and there's a strong case for dropping Morgan and bringing in Haskell (although also a strong case for giving Morgan the chance to redeem himself).

I think we may start Dickson, as Youngs struggled.

[thomh]

Care will presumably start the game on Wednesday. If he has a storming first half and then gets subbed then it might tell us their plans for Saturday.

[hugehandoff]

With the way PDJ struggled in the scrums (and yes it is not just him but also Mears and the 2nd rows) I thought how England could have benefited from Sheridan being there. Overall I am happy with Corbs and Marler, but if Sheridan is fit and injury free he is top class and provides physicality. He is off to Toulon, but I think we should use him as a back up when required.

[ChequeredJersey]

23 man benches can't come quickly enough

[Zander]

Agree, England need it rather badly.

[DaveM]

I don't think PDJ's appearance at LH contributed to England's defeat. What England need badly is a working kick chase and a better balance at 10, 12, 13.

[Biltong]

23 man benches can't come quickly enough

Nah, we got Coenie, no need for 23.

Besides it is another jumper that needs washing.

[wales606]

23 man benches can't come quickly enough

Nah, we got Coenie, no need for 23.

Besides it is another jumper that needs washing.

[ChequeredJersey]

23 man benches can't come quickly enough

Nah, we got Coenie, no need for 23.

Besides it is another jumper that needs washing.

Nah, mate, we rarely use our props as jumpers and I don't think any of them have ever washed

[Biltong]

23 man benches can't come quickly enough

Nah, we got Coenie, no need for 23.

Besides it is another jumper that needs washing.

Nah, mate, we rarely use our props as jumpers and I don't think any of them have ever washed

yeah well we have athletic props. They can jump.

[ChequeredJersey]

23 man benches can't come quickly enough

Nah, we got Coenie, no need for 23.

Besides it is another jumper that needs washing.

Nah, mate, we rarely use our props as jumpers and I don't think any of them have ever washed

yeah well we have athletic props. They can jump.

I'm sure Marler can jump, Alberts would probably be there waiting for him though

[Zander]

I wouldn't be surprised if Marler checked under his bed last night to see if Alberts was there!

[Biltong]

23 man benches can't come quickly enough

Nah, we got Coenie, no need for 23.

Besides it is another jumper that needs washing.

Nah, mate, we rarely use our props as jumpers and I don't think any of them have ever washed

yeah well we have athletic props. They can jump.

I'm sure Marler can jump, Alberts would probably be there waiting for him though

Why would Alberts want to catch him, he doesn't wear a tutu does he?

[Biltong]

I wouldn't be surprised if Marler checked under his bed last night to see if Alberts was there!

I heard Marler asked for his bed to be removed, he only wants a mattress in his room, no cupboards or hidden closets.

[Zander]

I wouldn't be surprised if Marler checked under his bed last night to see if Alberts was there!

I heard Marler asked for his bed to be removed, he only wants a mattress in his room, no cupboards or hidden closets.

He also kept Tuilagi on look out just in case ...

[Heaf]

I don't think PDJ's appearance at LH contributed to England's defeat. What England need badly is a working kick chase and a better balance at 10, 12, 13.

Agreed SA kick chase was much better although the officials could do with watching more closely as they were regularly offside in front of the kicker ...

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