Springboks vs England, squad announcements and matchday thread.

[Biltong]

First topic message reminder :

I will update as more information is released.

Springbok team announced for the first test vs England.

15 Zane Kirchner, caps 14
14 JP Pietersen, caps 42
13 Jean de Villiers (captain), caps 72
12 Frans Steyn, caps 47
11 Bryan Habana, caps 74
10 Morné Steyn, caps 34
9 Francois Hougaard, caps 15
8 Pierre Spies, caps 47
7 Willem Alberts, caps 9
6 Marcell Coetzee, caps 0
5 Juandré Kruger, caps 0
4 Eben Etzebeth, caps 0
3 Jannie du Plessis, caps 30
2 Bismarck du Plessis, caps 42
1 Beast Mtawarira, caps 32

Replacements:
16 Adriaan Strauss, caps 9
17 Coenie Oosthuizen, caps 0
18 Flip van der Merwe, caps 11
19 Keegan Daniel, caps 1
20 Ruan Pienaar, caps 51
21 Pat Lambie, caps 11
22 Wynand Olivier, caps 34

I am surprised and happy to see Eben etzebeth in the starting XV and Strauss on the bench, Meyer has gone for a 4-3 split on the bench which is interesting. The pack has 160 combined caps with 4 debutants, the back line has a combined cap of 302 caps.

I am actually rather impressed with Meyer's selections. The English may see this pack as vulnerable and inexperienced, but I think it is a rather exciting pack. full of mobility and physicality.

England Team:

15 Mike Brown, caps 3
14 Chris Ashton, caps 23
13 Manusamoa Tuilagi, caps 10
12 Brad Barritt, caps 5
11 Ben Foden, caps 26
10 Owen Farrell, caps 5
9 Ben Youngs, caps 17
8 Ben Morgan, caps 5
7 Chris Robshaw (C), caps 6
6 Tom Johnson, 0 caps
5 Geoff Parling, 2 caps
4 Mouritz Botha, 6 caps
3 Dan Cole, 25 caps
2 Dylan Hartley, 34 caps
1 Joe Marler, 0 caps


Replacements:
16 Lee Mears, 38 caps
17 Paul Doran Jones, 3 caps
18 Tom Palmer, 37 caps
19 Phil Dowson, 5 caps
20 Lee Dickson, 0 caps
21 Toby Flood, 46 caps
22 Jonathan Joseph, 0 caps

[Biltong]

Michael de Vries, Rugby365

Meyer has had a matter of days to assemble a starting XV that is capable of dealing with the different threats that England will present in his first match in charge as Springbok coach, and as a result he opted for combinations that will be able to hit the ground running.

Possibly the biggest surprise in his team selection on Wednesday was the relegation of incumbent fullback Pat Lambie to the bench, with Zane Kirchner getting the nod instead.

Meyer explained that the Bulls stalwart’s well-established relationship with the other key players in the backline had been a major factor in his decision.

“If you look at the team we didn’t have a lot of time to prepare. I think that both are quality fullbacks but if you look at the team I went for combinations and guys that know each other.

“If you look at the front row, the loose forwards and the 8, 9, 10 and the 15 they are all guys who have played with each other.

“I think that Patrick is a great player, especially as there is a good chance he will come off the bench and make a huge difference,” the Bok coach told a media conference in Durban.

The Bok boss added that while settled combinations would be crucial to getting the match off to a solid start, he expects his replacements to make a huge impact when they are unleashed later in the game.

“I don’t believe in reserves, I believe in impact players, so if you look at the players on the bench they are brilliant players in their own right,” he said.

One area of Meyer’s team which may fly in the face of his desire for established and settled partnerships is in the second row.

HIGH PRAISE FOR ETZEBETH

Both locks Eben Etzebeth and Juandré Kruger will make their Test debut on Saturday, and Meyer explained that although the temptation to keep Kruger together with his Bulls teammate Flip van der Merwe had been strong, he simply could not ignore Etzebeth who he believes is on form and poised to become a great of the game.

“Flip and Juandré have played together and I think that is a great combination, but I went for form. It probably would have been easier to pair the two Bulls players together but I believe that Eben brings something different to the party.

“He contests very well in the line-out and I don’t want to say he could be the next Bakkies Botha because I think he can surpass that,” said Meyer.

The Bok coach added that despite their relative inexperience he has confidence that the two young locks will be able to fill the sizeable boots of the record-breaking combination of Botha and Victor Matfield.

“I think it is quite a new thing for South African rugby to have two uncapped locks in the team, so obviously that is a huge step-up for them and they need to prove that they can play at this level but I am very confident in them.

“I did think about experience there but I have got a lot of confidence in Eben and I think he can be a world-class lock. He is big, physical and doesn’t shy away from contact and I think he was the best No.4 lock in Super Rugby so it was just fair to go with him there,” he said.

MARCELL COETZEE

The third debutant in the side is Sharks flank Marcell Coetzee, and Meyer said that although experience is important in the cauldron of Test rugby the hunger that young players like him and Etzebeth will bring should not be underestimated.

“Marcell Coetzee has been playing great rugby the whole year, I think he brings something different to the party and he will definitely be a superstar in years to come.

“Both Marcell and Eben are still Under-21 so we have got a few youngsters there who I think played very well in Super Rugby which is an unbelievably tough competition so I am very confident in all three [debutants],” he said.

Meyer is excited about the impact that his replacements will make, and said that every player on the bench has the ability to add their own brand of venom when called upon.

“If you look at Coenie [Oosthuizen] and Adriaan [Strauss] they are two of the best ball-players in the country if not the world for that matter.

“Both are great guys to start with but unbelievable guys to bring off the bench because they can turn a game on its head. Same with Flip – he is a through and through athlete and then Keegan [Daniel] is a guy who has proved himself and can cover openside and No.8 and he always makes a difference.

“If you look at the backs that I have chosen on the bench they are also guys that can change a game, so they will definitely be used.

“I believe that they are all game-breakers in their own right – every single player – and it is great to have a bench with big, fast, strong guys with a lot of skill,” said the Bok coach.

LEVELS OF COMMITMENT

Meyer added that he has been stunned by the levels of commitment and intensity in the squad this week and said that he cannot wait for his team to get stuck into the visitors.

“I have been coaching for about 20 years and this is probably the best week in terms of pure attitude of players that I have ever seen.

“Every single player has trained every single session and in my wildest dreams after the derbies I never thought that would be possible so the attitude has been brilliant.

“Obviously it is a huge responsibility to represent your country and you really want to start well, and you also know that you are playing against a quality side so I am obviously a bit nervous, but more excited than nervous and I can’t wait to go,” he said

[mystiroakey]

COME ON ENGLAND

[Bullsbok]

Unless England developed Aussie like backline play then they are in for a very rough ride . If they attempt to play a tactical game they will be horribly outclassed .Expect to see Frans Steyn periodically dropping back to field kicks if England are under the impression they will outkick the Boks

[mystiroakey]

gonna scrum and maul em up to death pal

[Bullsbok]

gonna scrum and maul em up to death pal

I cant wait to see a team maul the Springboks to death . i really want to see that

[Geordie]

gonna scrum and maul em up to death pal

[funnyExiledScot]

Looks like a very strong Boks team. Surprised De Jongh isn't at least on the bench (Olivier??) but it's going to be physical with plenty of boot from Steyn and Steyn.

Foden is going to need a massive game under the high ball and on the counter attack. If he can run it back effectively then England could be in business, but it's going to be a tough one. Might be some mileage in picking Brown and 15 and Foden on the wing across from Ashton, getting two 15's into the back three.

Don't know much about Coetzee at 6 for the Boks. I suspect he's a shrinking violet of a man, who likes to avoid the rough stuff......

[mystiroakey]

i can only dream! itv's euro advert has given me inspiration. I would like to see a rugby one

[Geordie]

Im quietly happy that England are being written off already on here....hopefully the boks will do the same....

[Biltong]

who's written them off?

All I have seen is a few men (from both sides) beating their chsts and roaring like King Kong.

[mystiroakey]

Haha

[Bullsbok]

[Taylorman]

I think Meyers excitement is infectious and has been absorbed by the squad. We never saw anything like this come out of pdv. Assuming this translates to performance I dont think the gameplan is as much of an issue. SA's problems were in both areas. Remove one and I think they'll be great.

[emack2]

Very unusual to have a Bok side with only a 100 or so caps forward,and lots of caps in the backs.Big and strong ,tall and heavy means little it is about the core duties of a lock.Lineout/restarts ,Scrums,Mauls,Cleaning out rucks etc,ball carrying is an optional extra.NO Bok side is lacking in those areas,and the more experienced guys will be back for the 4Ns.Stormers/Bulls are going well and the midfield is solid enough.Lambie really needs to be at 10 instead of Steyn if a more adventurous game is planned I feel.BUT judging by the Refs handling 2009 style is back on the menu as opposed to 2010 style.

[jamesandimac]

I think Englands chances rest soley on one mans shoulders, Lancaster. Whoever he decides to pick at 6, 9, 10 and 12 is going to decide the contest.

6 will most likely be Dowson but I think Johnson's style would better compliment Robshaw and Morgan, allowing Robshaw to do what he does knowing there is someone able to cover for him once he commits. Ideally I'd have given Haskell his shirt back as I think he could be the missing link England need for they're backrow, would certainly make it more physical and abrassive in the contact area, and gives the backrow the most traditional look its had in years.

9 should be Care on form but if you're going partnerships then Youngs with Flood, but then thats Flood even makes the 22. In my mind Dickson and Hodgson shouldn't be in the 22, and Farrell should bench with Care leaving the Tigers half backs to start as they're certainly the most attacking partnership we have.

12 will be Barritt, don't rate him (other than defence), but he'll start. If i were to take a punt I'd shove in Allen to partner Tuilagi, the best all round, traditional 12 we have at the moment but it ain't going to happen.

If he sticks to his guns and goes Dowson, Dickson, Farrell and Barritt then its going to be a very uncomfortable afternoons viewing, expect lots of kick chase and dropped passes.

[jamesandimac]

Looks like Lancasters gone for two out of the four.

Telegraph are reporting that Johnsons in at 6, Youngs at 9, Farrell at 10 and Barritt 12.

Marler is also getting a go at loose head with Brown in at 15 and Foden on the wing

1. Cole
2. Hartley
3. Marler
4. Botha
5. Parling
6. Johnson
7. Robshaw (c)
8. Morgan
9. Youngs
10. Farrell
11. Foden
12. Barritt
13. Tuilagi
14. Ashton
15. Brown

[jamesandimac]

Link below

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/9314983/South-Africa-v-England-Joe-Marler-and-Tom-Johnson-given-first-caps-in-opening-Test-in-Durban.html.

[DaveM]

Looks like Lancasters gone for two out of the four.

Telegraph are reporting that Johnsons in at 6, Youngs at 9, Farrell at 10 and Barritt 12.

Marler is also getting a go at loose head with Brown in at 15 and Foden on the wing

1. Cole
2. Hartley
3. Marler
4. Botha
5. Parling
6. Johnson
7. Robshaw (c)
8. Morgan
9. Youngs
10. Farrell
11. Foden
12. Barritt
13. Tuilagi
14. Ashton
15. Brown

Given Corbs is injured I think that is pretty much the side I would have picked. Left wing was wide open, and Foden is as good an option as any. SH could have gone any of 3 ways. I hope Flood and JJ are on the bench.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Right judging by that lineup hes fallen somewhere in the middle of backing the Farrel snrs crew and picking an attacking side.

Im not going to make any predictions about how england will fare, but if that side is the one that goes out Im more optimistic than I might have been

[Biltong]

Me forward look this test too.

[yappysnap]

Looks like Lancasters gone for two out of the four.

Telegraph are reporting that Johnsons in at 6, Youngs at 9, Farrell at 10 and Barritt 12.

Marler is also getting a go at loose head with Brown in at 15 and Foden on the wing

1. Cole
2. Hartley
3. Marler
4. Botha
5. Parling
6. Johnson
7. Robshaw (c)
8. Morgan
9. Youngs
10. Farrell
11. Foden
12. Barritt
13. Tuilagi
14. Ashton
15. Brown

I actually really like that team. couple of points:

Marler really should have been tested in the 6N's off the bench, to now start him on tour seems a bit silly but I think he'll go well to SL will get out of jail and look good for doing it.

Johnson at 6 makes our backrow look very good, let's hope he plays as well as last weekend. Probably our heaviest starting backrow for quite a while.

Youngs & Farrell could go either way but Flood may not be fully fit and i'm still happier with that then Dickson & Hodgson.

Brown and Foden looks like a really good call, Brown should have been started a lot earlier then now but ho hum.

[maestegmafia]

Pretty much the strongest England team available.

I think most fans would rather flood than Farrell but this is a massive opportunity for the lad, and if he takes after his father he will grasp it and not let it slip away.

I fear the pack might suffer from a lack of athleticism compared to the Boks and that may be a telling factor. The inside backs do not look creative enough to worry the opposition. This will be direct rugby with the back three fliers being brought into to exploit gaps if they appear.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Pretty much the strongest England team available.

I think most fans would rather flood than Farrell but this is a massive opportunity for the lad, and if he takes after his father he will grasp it and not let it slip away.

I fear the pack might suffer from a lack of athleticism compared to the Boks and that may be a telling factor. The inside backs do not look creative enough to worry the opposition. This will be direct rugby with the back three fliers being brought into to exploit gaps if they appear.

Fair assesment. England need to get more from Barritt and Tuillagi, what the midfield does offer though is solidity.
I dont think its any vast surprise that Farrell kept his place even without his dad complaining to the games master, he never really did anything wrong for england and frankly exceeded expectations for a kid, kicked his goals well for the most part. His weaknesses are plain fro everyone to see, but Lancaster doesnt seem to like his halfbacks to run anyway. Youngs injects a bit more threat and pace, if hes let off the leash a bit ...the worry being that Farrell standing deep wont enable him to offer the same threat with sniping runs and they wont force the defence to stay tight which means no room for the centers who will just run straight into a brick wall.
Bags of pace outside, big plus for Brown to be given a chance. A lot of people are a bit "Foden on the wing?" but he enables England to defend the expected SA kicking game well and has all the attributes of a winger. Certainly more of a threat than Strettle was.
the pack looks pretty unispiring but was surprisingly effective in the 6 nations once rebalanced. Marlers a risk but there on merit (like Brown) and with corbs fitniess in doubt what choice did England have? The injury to Stevens made the choice easy. Hes been around the England set up for some time now, ideally it would be softer opposition but then is the pressure of the 6 nations any better a time to be making your debut?
Lancaster has stuck to his guns on selection policy. The side has the look of a Johnson one about it in many ways, but some of those clicked and worked well despite being perceived to lack fireworks.
Englands biggest challenge will be in avoiding getting smashed off the park again. Theres no Banahans in the backs to help the forwards out, and they are lacking their lineout spoiler in croft. I cant see them dominating the scrum in the way they did against ireland, or getting the space they did against the Baabaas so no monster scorelines.
cant wait, shame Ill miss it.

[Portnoy]

Johnson and Marler handed debuts

http://www.espnscrum.com/england-tour-2012/rugby/story/165342.html

Apologies if this has already been posted

England team:
Mike Brown, Chris Ashton, Manu Tuilagi, Brad Barritt, Ben Foden, Owen Farrell, Ben Youngs; Joe Marler, Dylan Hartley, Dan Cole, Geoff Parling, Mouritz Botha, Tom Johnson, Chris Robshaw (c), Ben Morgan

Replacements: Lee Mears, Paul Doran Jones, Tom Palmer, Phil Dowson, Lee Dickson, Toby Flood, Jonathan Joseph

[Zander]

I'm really pleased to see Joseph on the bench, hopefully he'll make an appearance. Overall I'm pleased with that team!

[RubyGuby]

A predictable but strong looking England XV - They will look to play a tight kicking game followed up with a strong defence and set piece - Not too dissimilar to the Saffers. Good move with Foden on the wing as there has been little else there. Looks like a tight game ahead, England must not let SA get over the try line in the first 10-15 mins, if they can hold out there then I thing the longer the game goes the more chance England have. Then again I think the England bench is weak and with the physicality of the Saffers that could be a significant area - Looking forward to a cracker

[ChequeredJersey]

Decent team. Wouldn't have the Brown -Foden thingy. Would rather see Tuilagi- Allen or Flood at 10 rather than Farrell as that backline lacks impetus until te ball gets to Tuilagi and the wings may not see toomuch ball

[Pot Noodle Miner]

I think this will be a close 1 and its probably englands best chance of beating SA for a while, the bookies might have england as big underdogs but i think the first test could go either way

[formerly known as Sam]

After seeing that team all I can think is "c'mon Owen Farrell pulled hamstring in the warm up". It's a really attacking backline apart from the most defensively minded 10 since Wilko, having said that Owen makes Wilko look like Quade Cooper. Expect to see the centres easily covered by the opposition defence and a poor game from Youngs who will be comfortably kept in check if Farrell stands as far back as the 15 which is his usual positioning if he intends to pass. Foden is going to be wasted on the wing without a 10 who will bring him into the game.

The only upside is that any penalty conceded by SA in their own half will be 3pts to England. There will be penalties as well, Marler and Hartley are going to have the du Plessis brothers frothing at the mouth within minutes as they are both prime wind up merchants and the du Plessis brothers are anything but calm and constrained. England will be asking a lot of Robshaw because he is going to have to a lot of tackling in defence and a load of link work in attack in order to give the team a chance.

[Cymroglan]

Who is the ref ?

[Zander]

Maybe since Catt has joined the coaching team, he has managed to get Farrell to stand flatter and pass more effectively. We can only hope!

[Dim]

As in the 6 nations it's the bench that worries me, hardly any impact. Flood and Joseph could be game changes but I don't see the others offering anything new. Mears and Dowson coming on reduces the physicality of the pack, the others are solid nothing else.

On the positive side, with less injuries/more experience I can see England developing a truly dynamic bench. Keeping the same starting XV (not because I think it's the best we could hope to put out but for the sake of argument), we could have a bench of T. Youngs, Corbisiero, Lawes, Haskell/Croft, Care, Flood (I'd rather he started), Joseph, which would add real impetus towards the end of a game. Tigers showed this year how significant a strong bench is and I think it's something England need to work on.

[Islingtonv2]

I think this will be a close 1 and its probably englands best chance of beating SA for a while, the bookies might have england as big underdogs but i think the first test could go either way

Do you have the odds Pot?

I can't access the bookies websites at work.

[LondonTiger]

Farrell has to stand flatter than he usually likes. this will then get the best out of Youngs and Barritt. If he stays deep in the pocket the whole game, the structure will look earily similar to England at the RWC.

I am however hopeful that as he is a young man at the start of his career, then the coaches can persuade him to stand flatter (something Johnno and smith failed to do with Wilko). If this happens then all of a sudden Youngs has options and the threat posed by him and Barritt magnidfies greatly.

the similarities with the WC teams continues on the bench where we see a defensive SH paired with an attacking FH.

[LondonTiger]

Who is the ref ?

The "Australian" Steve Walsh

[anotherworldofpain]

I hope Pietersen, Habana and Kirchner find some way to amuse and keep warm in the game with the 9/10/12 ball will not coming wide so much.

[anotherworldofpain]

Who is the ref ?

The "Australian" Steve Walsh

A favourite of my England team!

[Cymroglan]

LT

[Barney McGrew did it]

A somewhat cobbled-together and confused side.

Marler in for Corbs – the latter still recovering from injury, little choice but a test debut at prop against a home SA – talk about in at the deep-end. Hope he’s as mad as he looks.

No pace in the backrow – just one day I’d like to see Croft, Wood and Haskell battling for selection. TO count to SA I think.

Youngs attacking mentality to counter the stodge that is Farrell – a bit French-like in format, and that went well. I’m kinda hoping this is because Flood is still recovering (his normal status these days) because Farrell is our 3rd choice FH and only just test quality. Shame SL can’t see this.

I guess SL realizes the back 3 will only see ball off SA – with the express orders to kick it back to them (minus 10 metres). BTW Foden is our 1st choice FB but apparently SL sees him as our 3rd or 4th choice winger. I’m sure some one once said we had lots of wingers – apparently not.

If the SA pack gets the upper hand then our back’s job will simply to keep the score respectable.

I predict an England win with a sniping break by Youngs and Ashton on his shoulder to finish with a trademark swallow. Flood to come on for the last 20 and get MOM.

[jamesandimac]

I am concerned about the midfield. Against the Barbarians Farrell and Barritt's passes were all over the place, and that was against a team not applying pressure in defence, pretty poor considering they train and play alongside each other day in day out. The Boks are going to look to nullify Englands here and force the mistakes. Hopefully Flood goes well when he comes on, but even then with the 12 he has outside him its a hinderance.

Can only pray Allen starts in midweek and goes well enough to warrant to call to the first XV.

[doctor_grey]

Foden on the wing: not sure I get it. Taking the best fullback in England and putting him out of position makes no sense to me. There are plenty of wings in England who can catch punts under pressure.

Marler: The Boks will undoubtedly try the same tactics which neutralised Phil Vickery in the first Lions Test in '09. Hope he has been prepared for that. I would do the same by the way.

Tom Johnson: Not in love with the selection, but can't say he hasn't earned a shot. Guys who slowly make their way up the club ranks and get their first cap when older usually don't fare too well in Internationals (to the best of my recollection).

Farrell: There for his defense? Certainly not for his attacking prowess. But he is still a kid. Maybe we give him (a little) slack.

Tuilagi v. De Villiers: Key matchup. Captain De Villiers is there to organise the defense. Becomes imperitive for Tuilagi to break through, right there.

[Bullsbok]

I think this will be a close 1 and its probably englands best chance of beating SA for a while, the bookies might have england as big underdogs but i think the first test could go either way

Were have i heard this before ahhhh November 2010 , Boks had just lost to Scotland and England had just beat the Wallabies at Twickers.

But i digress , what happened to Lee Dickson at 9? That guy was a revelation in the Six Nations and i literally pulled my hair out every-time Youngs replaced him . England lost to Wales for no other reason than Youngs coming on to the pitch.He utterly kicked the momentum ,but im guessing his form has vastly improved since then? Or he'll have a torrid time keeping Frans Hougaard in check and when he moves to the wing in the second half he'll have to deal with Ruan Pienaar

[Islingtonv2]

Farrell has to stand flatter than he usually likes. this will then get the best out of Youngs and Barritt. If he stays deep in the pocket the whole game, the structure will look earily similar to England at the RWC.

I am however hopeful that as he is a young man at the start of his career, then the coaches can persuade him to stand flatter (something Johnno and smith failed to do with Wilko). If this happens then all of a sudden Youngs has options and the threat posed by him and Barritt magnidfies greatly.

the similarities with the WC teams continues on the bench where we see a defensive SH paired with an attacking FH.

Not sure i'd describe Dickson as a defensive SH. He is a different type of player to Youngs, less of a running threat but better distribution and game management IMO. England certainly looked more threatening when he came on for Youngs against Italy though admittedly Youngs was hopelessly out of form at the time and fingers crossed will be much better on saturday. I like the fact that Dickson is a slightly different option. Care and Youngs are too similar for mine so we can't change direction as a team after half time if needed. Plus Care still has to earn the right to get back into the 22 after his epic fails off the pitch, lets see him earn it during the midweekers.

Agree with everything else you say.

[Zander]

Yes, Youngs' form has improved since the 6 Nations. He played well in the Aviva Premiership final, setting up an good try for Allen.

[Pot Noodle Miner]

I think this will be a close 1 and its probably englands best chance of beating SA for a while, the bookies might have england as big underdogs but i think the first test could go either way

Do you have the odds Pot?

I can't access the bookies websites at work.

Cant access the sites myself atm mate. im sure the series odds were 1/10 SA. 7/1 England

[Morgannwg]

Who the hell is Tom Johnson?

[RubyGuby]

Who the hell is Tom Johnson?

Exeter back rower has had a storming season, beat the Dragons almost single handedly at Rodney Parade - Tim Rodber type of back row forward

[Islingtonv2]

Who the hell is Tom Johnson?

he is a used car salesman from Bedford, google it.

[RubyGuby]

Who the hell is Tom Johnson?

he is a used car salesman from Bedford, google it.

[Morgannwg]

Thanks.

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