Ireland V All Blacks - Teams Announced and Matchday Thread

[clivemcl]

First topic message reminder :

IRELAND TEAM

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
11 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster) *
4 - Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
6 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Ronan Loughney (Galwegians/Connacht) *
18 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
19 - Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)


NZ Team

15 Israel Dagg,
14 Zac Guildford,
13 Conrad Smith,
12 Sonny Bill Williams,
11 Julian Savea,
10 Dan Carter,
9 Aaron Smith,
8 Kieran Read,
7 Richie McCaw (capt),
6 Victor Vito,
5 Sam Whitelock,
4 Brodie Retallick,
3 Owen Franks,
2 Andrew Hore,
1 Tony Woodcock.

Reserves: Hika Elliot, Ben Franks, Ali Williams, Adam Thomson, Piri Weepu, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith.

Tour Previews:
http://www.v2journal.com/irelands-summer-tour.html
http://www.v2journal.com/new-zealands-june-tests-preview.html

[rodders]

If Loughney starts at TH then we in big, big trouble

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

1st try was Earls' fault as he didn't read the switch and tackled the wrong man. McFadden sherpherded his man before hand.

2nd try was POM's fault as he didn't drift quick enough. It was a 3 on 3 if he had been in the line properly but McFadden has to come in to take the second man as the guy inside him had to then take the 1st man. Couldn't blame McFadden as you have to defend from the inside out not the outside in.

3rd try was a collective thing. SBW crashed up and took a few defenders out but we didn't then get around to the open side even nearly quick enough, Carter ran a loop around smith and that eventually left McFadden with a 3 on 1 and he was the 1. He held for a bit and then made his tackle. Zebo and Kearney collectively got their wires crossed between Savea and Dagg but the main issue was that we didn't get around the corner to defend the open side.

McFadden didn't have a great game but there is no way you can blame him for those 3 tries

[rodders]

Pete if 3 tries are scored by your opposite number you can't point the finger elsewhere. Forget it.

The second and third tries McFadden tackled the wrong man and got sucked in. The fact that the cover defenders messed up too doesn't absolve McFadden of his poor positional play and descison making.

Yes there is a collective responsibility there but McFadden was shown up again as a poor defender.

On another note Shaggys sister on BBC2....

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Think you have the wrong of it there Rodders,

If McFadden has stayed with Savea on try 2 the guy inside would have gone straight through the middle of the two defenders. Best force Dagg to make a long pass. On try 3 if he had stayed on Savea Carter would have gone through on the loop and it would have resulted in a 4 on 2 instead of a 3 on 2.

McFadden made the right calls

[rodders]

OK Pete we'll agree to disagree. If you think I'm being harsh you should read what some neutrals are saying about him.

I respect your knowledge man but I don't think you are being objective here .

[Standulstermen]

Kearney was IMO shocking defensively. The 2nd savea try in slo-mo looks horrible with a 21 year old appreciating he had the momentum but our lions full back meekly accepting the tackle on savea's terms and nit even attempting to put any force into it.

His 3rd try I'm not sure what Kearney was doing, he seemed to run one way then the other so how any cover player is supposed to know where to go I don't know. He did something similar for Richie Grey's score in the 6n.

Kearney is a cracker but he had a shocker

[rodders]

Actually just rewatched the 1st try... he was at fault there too.... he's too narrow then buys the dummy and tackles the outside man who Earls has covered.

Second try hes drifted so far infield he doesn't evn get a hand to Savea.

3rd try same again....miles infield with acres of space outside him.

Sorry Pete but he was appalling. Absolutely shocking defending.

[rodders]

Agree Stand Kearney was very poor. Ran upright into Savea and got smashed and turned over...kicked away poorly and his cover defence was very poor. Got isolated too much in attack.

He didn't really organise the back 3 well either.

[Standulstermen]

I don think you can blame McFadden. You defend space not the man. Earls came flying out of his channel into mcfaddens when the touchline meant myth had nowhere to go.

[rodders]

Stand its basic wing play... you have to cover the outside man and trust your inside defenders to pull across.... if you take the descision to come in you must take man and ball and stop the attack.

He failed to do any of that. He just gets caught ball watching.

Look the back 3 were all suspect defenders... the problem was the loose ball we kicked away...the handling errors which led to turnovers.

You can't give the AB'S so much ball no matter how good your defence is.

We didn't lose because of McFadden, Kearney or Zebo... we lost because we didn't retain the ball or use it well.

[rodders]

I'm actually positive we can turn things around for next week and produce a much better performance......

We must get Fitzpatrick, Healy and Ross fit though. Yer man Lougney is way out of his depth.

Bring in Reddan, Trimble and D'arce if Earls is out.

BELIEVE

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Actually just rewatched the 1st try... he was at fault there too.... he's too narrow then buys the dummy and tackles the outside man who Earls has covered.

In this scenario Earls should have transfered from marking Smith to marking the guy coming on the switch (Williams) Earls was entirely at fault here.

Second try hes drifted so far infield he doesn't evn get a hand to Savea.

He had to drift infield to buy his inside defenders (POM) time to get across if you look at POM jogs across. This defence works when it is put through the hands but Daggs flat skip pass with buckets of pace on it was a great attacking option. McF had to come in and it wasn't as if he shot out.

3rd try same again....miles infield with acres of space outside him.

But there was no one else covering the men infield he had to come in. Otherwise Carter would have run through and increased the numbers against Kearney and Zebo.

That's my take on it Rodders anyway I don't think you can blame McFadden for any of them.

Totally agree Kearney should have put in a much bigger hit in for Savea's 2nd and should have been more decisive either drifting or fixing and letting Zebo drift for Savea's 3rd. His indecision made that finish easier than it should have been.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

Good on you Rodders. That's the spirit.

Sorry to say but ABs can also improve on their performance. Don't think any changes will be made but there's plenty to work on, namely clearing out the breakdown area better.

[rodders]

Kia, Pete

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Rodders-

[rodders]

Sorry to say but ABs can also improve on their performance. Don't think any changes will be made but there's plenty to work on, namely clearing out the breakdown area better.

Don't doubt that for a second Kia.... but thats the challenge.

There's no hiding place for our players...this will sort the men from the boys.... careers and reputations are on line here.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

Any news on the injury front? Cian Healy is probably the most crucial. Ireland can't afford to lose him.

[The Great Aukster]

McFadden didn't look like a Test wing though, in either defence or attack. It was really disappointing that he didn't have the pace to outrun McCaw enough to get under the posts. His running was very lateral and didn't seem to cut any incisive lines.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Yeah I don't know why he didn't go for the posts he could/should have!

Kia it looks like Healy, earls and possibly Ross still.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

Oh dear. That's not good news. If D'Arcy comes back I imagine BOD will go to OC and that's not such a bad thing. Unfortunately it's probably not going to help the Irish attack.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

it will hamstring us yes.
cave was on the bench but the only impact he had was poor, so we could well see darcy

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

The game is on sky2 again now in 2 mins

[Standulstermen]

Rodders I have to disagree on your summation of the first try. Basic defence means you mark your space. Earls didn't do this, and by the time smith released the pass he was the outside man. You never have defenders crossing each other to make tackles.

[The Great Aukster]

Hmmm... Wilkinson and Loughney in the front row - 80 point drubbing?

[Notch]

For me one of the biggest issues is Les Kiss- he has two jobs now, coaching our attack and defence. And he's doing neither well, possibly because he has two jobs. But according to some stats I saw (unofficial) we made 1 linebreak and missed 35 tackles. That's a frighteningly bad.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

AAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHH POM!

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

God Zebo was bad there just before halftime! they should have scored another there

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

For me one of the biggest issues is Les Kiss- he has two jobs now, coaching our attack and defence. And he's doing neither well, possibly because he has two jobs. But according to some stats I saw (unofficial) we made 1 linebreak and missed 35 tackles. That's a frighteningly bad.

+1

[Standulstermen]

We conceded twice as many trys in the 2012 6n as we did in 2011. Given at one of the 2011 trys was due to an appalling mistake that takes it down to 3 in 2011. There always seems to be something this coaching ticket can't get a hold on. In 2011 it was discipline, in the RWC it was attack and now it seems to be an amalgamation of things.

I think kiss should be a defence coach and no more

[LeinsterFan4life]

Would you guys like to see bradley getting a shot as ireland coach?

[The Great Aukster]

No

[Biltong]

Biltong- Just while you are here. Your team provided me with a moment of delight yesterday and I wanted to thank you! DeVilliers putting Tuilagi on his back with one of his carries warmed my heart a lot. It also was awesome to see the S.African's ploughing into the S.Africans who play for England!

That's what you get when things get physical, But to be fair Tuilagi got de Villiers on his back as well (although he never let go)

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Biltong- Just while you are here. Your team provided me with a moment of delight yesterday and I wanted to thank you! DeVilliers putting Tuilagi on his back with one of his carries warmed my heart a lot. It also was awesome to see the S.African's ploughing into the S.Africans who play for England!

That's what you get when things get physical, But to be fair Tuilagi got de Villiers on his back as well (although he never let go)

Yeah exactly! Loved seeing JDV put Tuilagi down and then run past! AWESOME! Just wanted to thank you for that and congratulate you on the win, you probably should have won by more. Alberts must be part rampaging bear, what have your nutritionists got that ours don't!

[mystiroakey]

pete do you prefer seeing your team win or england lose?

[Biltong]

Biltong- Just while you are here. Your team provided me with a moment of delight yesterday and I wanted to thank you! DeVilliers putting Tuilagi on his back with one of his carries warmed my heart a lot. It also was awesome to see the S.African's ploughing into the S.Africans who play for England!

That's what you get when things get physical, But to be fair Tuilagi got de Villiers on his back as well (although he never let go)

Yeah exactly! Loved seeing JDV put Tuilagi down and then run past! AWESOME! Just wanted to thank you for that and congratulate you on the win, you probably should have won by more. Alberts must be part rampaging bear, what have your nutritionists got that ours don't!

Genetic altering laboratories and lots of red meat mate.

[Notch]

pete do you prefer seeing your team win or england lose?

If I may butt in, the answer is my team to win. The best answer is my team to win against England

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Biltong- Just while you are here. Your team provided me with a moment of delight yesterday and I wanted to thank you! DeVilliers putting Tuilagi on his back with one of his carries warmed my heart a lot. It also was awesome to see the S.African's ploughing into the S.Africans who play for England!

That's what you get when things get physical, But to be fair Tuilagi got de Villiers on his back as well (although he never let go)

Yeah exactly! Loved seeing JDV put Tuilagi down and then run past! AWESOME! Just wanted to thank you for that and congratulate you on the win, you probably should have won by more. Alberts must be part rampaging bear, what have your nutritionists got that ours don't!

Genetic altering laboratories and lots of red meat mate.

The lad is HUGE!

Have you guys got many injuries to worry about?

[JmD]

I'm going to agree with rodders over McFadden's mistakes. For the first try it was clear that Earls was going for the ball carrier. McFadden took the easy way out by just hitting the nearest man instead of doing his job.

He was blatantly caught ball watching for the second try. There were plenty of men to his left who had the inside covered. All he had to do was mark his wing, which he failed to do. In every single match he plays for Ireland he makes at least one big error in defence, he is out of his depth at this level.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

pete do you prefer seeing your team win or england lose?

If I may butt in, the answer is my team to win. The best answer is my team to win against England

Well butt-ed in Notch.
Sorry Mystiroakey not trying to be vindictive just saw Biltong there and wanted to congratulate him coupled with a dislike of Tuilagi

[Standulstermen]

He can't just decide to go for the ball carrier though. Thats poor discipline. I'm not suggesting McFadden is blameless but you can't have defenders switching positions in the defensive line without compromising it's integrity. It's schoolboy stuff. I can guarantee that's what will be said in the video analysis.

On alberts, he looks like a Bond Villain to me. Can't believe anyone seriously suggested ulster would get him.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Uh oh......

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2012/0610/1224317651437.html

[mystiroakey]

Ermm .I am very sure that most would rather a win v NZ..

[Notch]

It was a joke mystir. I actually would rather beat Wales than England out of the Six Nations these days. I don't really care much about England

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I'm going to agree with rodders over McFadden's mistakes. For the first try it was clear that Earls was going for the ball carrier. McFadden took the easy way out by just hitting the nearest man instead of doing his job.

Earls shouldn't have been going for the ball carrier. If that was what he was supposed to do a simple switch would quickly become the most effective move in rugby. Earls was well wrong there.

He was blatantly caught ball watching for the second try. There were plenty of men to his left who had the inside covered. All he had to do was mark his wing, which he failed to do. In every single match he plays for Ireland he makes at least one big error in defence, he is out of his depth at this level.

POM was pillar defence and Healy was guard. POM moved far too slow to get to Dagg which meant that Healy had to come in, with Healy coming in McFadden had to come in. Everyone is taught to defend from the inside out not the other way. If he had stayed on Savea, Dagg would have just passed it to the man in between he and Savea and would have been a simple walk in

[Gibson]

Uh oh......

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2012/0610/1224317651437.html

Ireland started off the first Test with some exciting, running rugby of their own, but they were often repelled backward and, in turn, spilled balls that the All Blacks pounced on. “I think holding onto the ball rather than turning it over is the best way to play the game,” Heaslip said.

Is it really Jamie? Cheers. Tanksalot. Sheesh!

Could you tell Kidney that then!

[Biltong]

Pete I haven't heard of any injuries yet mate.

[Notch]

Gibbo, I can just imagine thats the kind of insight Kidney is sharing with these players in his coaching sessions

[mystiroakey]

notch i wasnt talking to you was i. if you dont care about england dont speak for someone else who is either on a wum or has abit of an issue with england. However maybe you shouold care abit more- or are 20pt loses expected?

[Notch]

notch i wasnt talking to you was i. if you dont care about england dont speak for someone else who is either on a wum or has abit of an issue with england. However maybe you shouold care abit more- or are 20pt loses expected?

Sir, I do believe that pete is not the WUM here! J'accuse

[LeinsterFan4life]

Lets just start to look forward to the autumn internationals and just forget about this tour

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