Ireland v New Zealand 2nd Test Live Match Thread

[Pal Joey]

First topic message reminder :

Venue for the 2nd test: AMI Stadium (Addington) - formerly Rugby League Park Christchurch
Capacity: 26,000 incl. temporary seating
Weather http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2192362

Current forecast for Saturday evening is around 3 degrees C and light rain.

All Blacks: Israel Dagg, Zac Guildford, Conrad Smith, Sonny Bill Williams, Julian Savea, Dan Carter, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw (c), Adam Thomson, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Andrew Hore, Tony Woodcock.

Reserves: Hika Elliot, Ben Franks, Sam Cane, Ali Williams, Piri Weepu, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith
[/quote]

Irish team:
15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
6 - Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster)
18 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
19 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)

[sheephead]

Watching the Wales game here and holy crap I have no idea how they get away with being so offside!

I don't think they have been on their feet once at the breakdown either.

Worry about your own team. May as well go to the Australia v Wales thread as that is where most of your countrymen are. Putting Wales down to make themselves feel better.

[asoreleftshoulder]

wow did you go through this entire thread to find something you could get offended about

[sheephead]

No actually. I was on the Wales thread and its full of your lot making snide comments. The Irish really think they are fan royalty, they don't boo kicks, moan at ref decisions. Came here to see if it would be similar and it wasn't. People seem to gather en mass of Wales threads. Its pathetic.

[Biltong]

Sheephead today was a great day of competitive rugby between SH and NH, there is no need to stir emotions further please.

[sheephead]

Bilto; if that's what im doing how have all the posts on the Wales thread gone unchecked?

[asoreleftshoulder]

Too........many........jokes,must.........mock...........sheephead

[rodders]

Can I get a warning too Biltong?

I've been a bit emotional today I'm afraid ... apologies to my compatriates for some uncharacteristic hyperbole( ) this morning.....

[LeinsterFan4life]

Sin e...you see there isnt that big a gap between the NH and SH

[sheephead]

Was just wondering, is the difference in opinion on the Ireland performance from Irish poster due to the country they're from or club they support?

[Biltong]

Bilto; if that's what im doing how have all the posts on the Wales thread gone unchecked?

I didn't recieve any reports mate.

Guys cool it, I don't want to spend my evening breaking up bickering and mending sore heats please.

[Biltong]

Sin e...you see there isnt that big a gap between the NH and SH

No, the gap is about big enough to just manage eating an apple through a tennis racket.

[LeinsterFan4life]

Sin e...you see there isnt that big a gap between the NH and SH

No, the gap is about big enough to just manage eating an apple through a tennis racket.

It was a great day of rugby

[Biltong]

Sin e...you see there isnt that big a gap between the NH and SH

No, the gap is about big enough to just manage eating an apple through a tennis racket.

It was a great day of rugby

I agree, no run away games, fantastic step up from Ireland, hard luck loss to Wales, great comeback from England using their opportunities well.

[mystiroakey]

a gutting day for NH really- we all deserve a beer. But we all pushed them as hard as possible i think

[rodders]

Yup brilliant day of rugby, a few tough defeats to stomach but for me there were no losers today, all the teams fronted up. Pints all round

[LeinsterFan4life]

Ye all the teams really did the NH proud...

[asoreleftshoulder]

Yup brilliant day of rugby, a few tough defeats to stomach but for me there were no losers today, all the teams fronted up. Pints all round

Lol first time I read that I thought you said Pims all round.

[rodders]

If you like asore! Pims are on me!

[mystiroakey]

Ill take the pimms(allready had two pints)

[asoreleftshoulder]

If you like asore! Pims are on me!

Lol no thanks that's my wifes favourite drink,I'll take a Jameson

[rodders]

I have to say, not sure if anyone noticed but I was inconsolable earlier.... still gutted but.....

....that was one of the best performances by an Irish side in the professional era, a massive effort and every single player involved should feel very proud .

[mystiroakey]

awwww-time is a great healer

[Guest]

geez Rodders, I pointed that out hours ago!

you guys really should be proud of them though

[rodders]

[The Bachelor]

Ireland were fantastic today - tough luck at the end.

[mystiroakey]

[Irishhoneymonster]

I have to say, not sure if anyone noticed but I was inconsolable earlier.... still gutted but.....

....that was one of the best performances by an Irish side in the professional era, a massive effort and every single player involved should feel very proud .

Inconsolable? I just assumed you had bet your house on the game! You mean you we were gutted just cause we didn't beat NZ in their own back yard?

Only kidding man I had much the same view as yourself straight after the game. Just before Sexton missed that penalty I was saying feic being plucky losers, that quite simply is not good enough anymore. I wasn't happy with a draw in last few minutes and was distraught after the game. But yes in the cold light of day at least it's a performance we can build on. Only prob is we have said that before.

But if I'm honest the most important thing for me for Ireland in general is playing a brand of Rugby where we go out and play to our strenghts of running Rugby. If we had done that during the 6 Nations I wouldn't have been so p1$$ed off after it even if we'd lost every game. And because of such a bad 6 nations (performance wise) I was then happy to accept an improvement in performance but not results on this NZ tour. I am really at point where if we are least performing and making steps forward with that then I don't give a monkeys about actual results for now. It's been so bad over last few years that is how I feel

[KiaRose]

My alarm clock worked - but then I fell back asleep. true Ireland fan here

Anyway, wayched thegame whilst you lot were watching Wales.

Thoroughly gutted at the end. Understand Rodders emotion but he's right you know. We shouldn't be satisfied with losing one like that. Most of you know I support Munster. If that had been Munster losing in the last five minutes against 14 men I would have been livid. I think any of the the Irish supporters would feel the same of their provinces. At that stage of a game we would EXPECT the province (whichever one) to win.

The Ireland team have got to know that fans of the Green jersey EXPECT the same. The days of plucky amateurs giving it a lash are well over, although some of the spirit and enthusiasm from then should be preserved. That spirit should be overlaid with hard cold professionalism where the team go into every match BELIEVING they can win. And today, the bottom line is, they could have won that game. They didn't and they have to work out why they didn't. Listened to Kidney on RTE and he was saying that there is no point in them feeling sorry for themselves, and he is right. They made mistakes; they made some poor judgement calls (last penalty by Sexton I thought, like many others here they should have gone for touch). These have to be rectified.

There is still a week of their tour to go. They mad a very considerable improvement over last week. There is still room for further improvement. That has to be found. There were some good bits today - the scrum was particularly pleasing; some of the picking and driving was good; box kixks were chaseable;ala in all the player showed that they weren't afraid to play with the ball in hand. The defence was good, holding the ABs to one try after last week's debacle was huge.

Interesting possession and territory stats which seemd to show the ABs had the majority of both (not by much, but something of a turn around from last week).
Now they have to find that that extra X% (wher X is not very big). Also, they have to bring to the green shirt the belief they all have when they are playing in the Red or the Blue or the White of their provinces - the real deep down gut belief that they CAN WIN.

C'mon Ireland - you can do it and we your fans will not be satisfied with anything less.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

It is disappointing we lost it's never fun losing and particularly like that too, it breaks my heart a bit but the performance was very pleasing. We desperately needed that.

Our attack wasn't too bad while not being hugely inventive we at least went through phases and our defence was very impressive. Best of all was the breakdown. we were really good here. Use of the bench was good too.

However:
our work off their restarts was shameful.
we weren't very clinical at all, we should have been looking for more points from time on the ball and in the opposition half.

I agree with notch, thomond and others saying that if this performance isn't backed up it will mean zero, zip, nada, faic.

[Notch]

More bad news for Ireland. Gordon D'Arcy and Jamie Heaslip are both injured and out of the last test. Paddy Wallace has been called up to the squad. The first bit is the bad news. Not the second.

It means if we insist on McFadden as a winger our remaining centres are BOD, Cave and now Wallace. So a BOD/Cave combo? Or the tried and tested Wallace-BOD, which allows O'Driscoll to stick to his best position? I'd give Cave the chance, we could learn a lot more from that.

No replacement for Heaslip called up. We have 4 backrowers and then Mike McCarthy, Donnacha Ryan etc. can all cover backrow too.

[SecretFly]

Given we had one 'pathetic perfromance' game and one 'very good performance game'...I think the onus certainly now is on a 'let's try to really win this one' game.

Priorities change as the series progresses. I don't think the ABs were happy with that game at all yesterday (obvious comment you might say) but no, I mean they really didn't like the upswing in Irish form and will we wondering is the upswing going to go up another notch next week - because if it does, they're in trouble and know it. They are conditioned to beat Ireland playing what they do so well... counterattacking like hot knives through butter... but they didn't fancy that physicality at all, didn't expect it from Ireland and won't be looking forward to it if the Irish do a miracle and come out playing equally well for two weeks running.

So, having laid those thoughts on the table, I think it's a time for experience over future hope and prospects next week, at least to begin with. We need as many players as possible who instantly know what is expected of them physically and will be up to speed on it in stacked memories alone. Therefore O'Driscoll and Wallace would be my starting choice. If Ireland hadn't performed so well yesterday I would have been up for 'experimention' with Cave etc but on the form they showed yesterday we finally have a real chance to keep the pressure on the ABs, hand them another dose of irish intensity and maybe this time, this time - we might walk away from New Zealand with our ellusive one win in the bag.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

That is bad news indeed both played really really well for the first time in a long time.

Does anyone know if earls is fit again?

I suppose the backrow will read
6. McLaughlin
7. O'Brien
8. O'Mahony

Could be much worse really.

[Standulstermen]

Why is paddy going out for 1 game? Is it because kidney can taste the win and wants paddy in the starting team? If so then why wasn't he in the squad in the first place? I just don't get it with earls being supposedly fit and three fit wingers.

[Notch]

Is Earls going to be fit? I thought his tour was over? If he's fit we have three centres already PLUS McFadden. Sure none of them are specialist 12s, but that wasn't an issue in the first test.

I think he will pick Wallace on the bench. Specialist 12 cover, has covered 15 before in a Kidney team.

[Standulstermen]

Thought earls was supposed to be fit. Not sure.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Not sure what the idea behind this is. I figured Earls was going to be fit for this last one.

[rodders]

I'd say if Paddy is heading out there must be serious doubts about Earls... even so with Cave, Zebo and Duffy there you'd think cover would be sufficient bar anymore injuries.

I thought our backline functioned a lot better this week with ROG-BOD-Sexton in midfield... in two minds whether I'd start with that... wouldn't mind seeing McFadden move to 12 and Zebo start on the left either.

Sexton had a massive game and showed real gas at outside center... BOD has put himself well in the frame to be Lions captain next year in my opinion.

Minimal changes for me and I just hope this performance proves to be a catalyst for the team to kick on, in a way that our last few big performances unfortunately haven't.

Believe

[Notch]

One thing is for certain; this performance proves all the people who claim 'we simply don't have the players' or 'we're just a small country, we can never measure up to the likes of New Zealand' are utterly wrong. We tore into them with a venom. The vast majority of our forwards were better than their opposite number. And we had them scared, we really did. We had them in trouble.

If we can do it in one game, we can do it a hell of a lot more often than three times in the last two years. And all that with our backline still not looking incisive or organised in attack!

Firstly, I thought; well this validates Kidney and the players. Then I thought; if we can play that well, we can damn well do it more regularly. How come we can only do it when everyone writes us off? We can aspire to this in every test, that should be our goal.

[rodders]

We should be playing like that every game, or close to it... obviously this is the pinacle, the bigger the challenge the better you play but there's no excuse for some of the mediocre performances we've seen over the past 2 seasons....we have to build from this.....

This performance is also one in the eye for those who would claim that Irish players care less about playing for Ireland than they do their provinces... I'm still frustrated about the result and the last 5 min... but the commitment and passion out there was off the scale, mindblowing... as much as I love my province and the HEC, this is the pinacle for me, nothing compares... playing the ABs... a win over the ABs would top everything for me... only winning the RWC could top it..... man it was so close I could taste it!

[Feckless Rogue]

I agree Notch. The inconsistency is a major problem under Kidney. But there was another problem you alluded to. Our pack got the better of theirs. But our attacking play was not good enough to turn that into a win.

Nothing about the attacking play is as good as it should be. And I don't mean running it from everywhere. I mean picking the right moment to run or kick, our set plays, our support play, getting the ball away quickly. Our provinces are better at all these things. Ireland don't have a specialist backs coach. And when we had Gaffney, apparently he was sidelined by Kidney (by the way I know Gaffney seemed useless anyway).

I think Smal is influencing our style of play to much (I'm talking in general more than just the weekend). The pack should be dominating the opposition in order to get quick ball for the backs, not just to try and win it on their own, South Africa style.

[rodders]

...and the pace, physicality, intensity, quality... amazing... such a huge step up from even playing the Clermonts, the Toulouses, the Leicesters.. the look of intensity on the likes of McCaws face during the haka...Donnacha Ryan looking back like a maniac... going toe to toe with these guys is what its about... the best of the best!

But we've proved we can compete now...what we need to do now is prove we can win.

Believe!

[Standulstermen]

On another note in the JRWC we are leading England 17-0 at half time. Sn intercept from Barry daly and a Henderson try with hanrahan converting and adding a penalty.

Henderson in the bin though

[LeinsterFan4life]

Its been a joy to watch the ireland u20's...

[Standulstermen]

20-5 to Ireland. England now down a man

[Standulstermen]

27-12 final score. Coughlan got the last try.

Means we play France for 5th place and are up to 2nd seeds next year I believe

[Sin é]

One thing is for certain; this performance proves all the people who claim 'we simply don't have the players' or 'we're just a small country, we can never measure up to the likes of New Zealand' are utterly wrong. We tore into them with a venom. The vast majority of our forwards were better than their opposite number. And we had them scared, we really did. We had them in trouble.

You could also say that Kidney has the ability to get more out of a team than the sum of their parts (and that is why Ireland are inconsistent).

Fairly impressive from Kidney & his coaches to pick that team up after the defeat the previous week and get that sort of a performance out of them.

Well played Ireland. Great performance from the whole team in the 2nd test.

[eirebilly]

Just wanted to say thanks to KiaRose for sending me a link to the match. I will watch it today

[Notch]

One thing is for certain; this performance proves all the people who claim 'we simply don't have the players' or 'we're just a small country, we can never measure up to the likes of New Zealand' are utterly wrong. We tore into them with a venom. The vast majority of our forwards were better than their opposite number. And we had them scared, we really did. We had them in trouble.

You could also say that Kidney has the ability to get more out of a team than the sum of their parts (and that is why Ireland are inconsistent).]

They are inconsistent because he can't get a performance out of them in the vast majority of matches. If he had the ability to get more out of the team than the sum of their parts we wouldn't consistently put in such disjointed, tactically inept performances.

[eirebilly]

I honestly think that if Kidney had a good backs coach to assist him then Ireland could again be a very good and balanced side. He is not as bad as he is being made out to be. That said he needs to get up to speed with todays game, evolve with the game itself. He does appear to be stuck in the gamestyle from before the rule changes a few years back.
In short, hire a good backs coach and i would be happy to see Kidney stay.

[Pal Joey]

I must admit that when I heard Les Kiss had the gig I was a little surprised.
A bit of an 80s style player and maybe his coaching is of that era... as you say.

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