Ireland v New Zealand 2nd Test Live Match Thread

[Pal Joey]

First topic message reminder :

Venue for the 2nd test: AMI Stadium (Addington) - formerly Rugby League Park Christchurch
Capacity: 26,000 incl. temporary seating
Weather http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2192362

Current forecast for Saturday evening is around 3 degrees C and light rain.

All Blacks: Israel Dagg, Zac Guildford, Conrad Smith, Sonny Bill Williams, Julian Savea, Dan Carter, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw (c), Adam Thomson, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Andrew Hore, Tony Woodcock.

Reserves: Hika Elliot, Ben Franks, Sam Cane, Ali Williams, Piri Weepu, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith
[/quote]

Irish team:
15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
6 - Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster)
18 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
19 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)

[Sin é]

How did the tactics change for this game than from the 1st match? From Kidney's prematch interview when commenting on what went wrong the previous week, he said that Ireland gave away the ball too cheaply. He said this week Ireland needed to hang onto the ball. BOD said something similar during the week. (Its laughable that you guys think that Kidney instructs the players (Sexton & BOD in particular) to kick away the ball (badly).

The fact that Heislip put in a good shift also made a massive difference to the supply of decent ball to the backs and the fact that a lot of the mistakes were cut out (knock-ons etc).

The difference this week was that Ireland's defence was much better. The step up would be for the attack to improve and no disrespect to either McFadden or Trimble on the wings, they are not Tommy Bowe or Keith Earls.

[Sin é]

I honestly think that if Kidney had a good backs coach to assist him then Ireland could again be a very good and balanced side. He is not as bad as he is being made out to be. That said he needs to get up to speed with todays game, evolve with the game itself. He does appear to be stuck in the gamestyle from before the rule changes a few years back.
In short, hire a good backs coach and i would be happy to see Kidney stay.

Great to see you posting Billy - impressive recovery!

[Sin é]

I must admit that when I heard Les Kiss had the gig I was a little surprised.
A bit of an 80s style player and maybe his coaching is of that era... as you say.

Before writing him off - Ireland was the top try scoring country in the 6Ns this year! And NZ have a good defence. On their NH tour in 2008, only one try was scored against them (and that was pretty much every country playing against them in the NH).

[eirebilly]

Great to see you posting Billy - impressive recovery!

Not really, not very bad injuries. Broken legs, arms and ribs. For the rest i am now 100%

[Sin é]

Great to see you posting Billy - impressive recovery!

Not really, not very bad injuries. Broken legs, arms and ribs. For the rest i am now 100%

Got your priorities right for posting on internet forums - hands and fingers are still good to go!

[Pal Joey]

I must admit that when I heard Les Kiss had the gig I was a little surprised.
A bit of an 80s style player and maybe his coaching is of that era... as you say.

Before writing him off - Ireland was the top try scoring country in the 6Ns this year! And NZ have a good defence. On their NH tour in 2008, only one try was scored against them (and that was pretty much every country playing against them in the NH).

Do you ever watch how Australia do it? Les Kiss was a one dimensional player 25 or more years ago. I'd be surprised if he could offer anything special to the Irish backs except "here's some vaseline... wriggle your way out of tackles and run like a scared rabbit in a zig-zag fashion".

[eirebilly]

Got your priorities right for posting on internet forums - hands and fingers are still good to go!

God bless virtual keyboards and voice activated typing

[Sin é]

Yea Linebreaker, we've had mainly Aus coaches here for the last 15 years or so and have mainly got rid of them all now.

I'd rate Kiss as one of the better Aus coaches though.

[Standulstermen]

Got your priorities right for posting on internet forums - hands and fingers are still good to go!

God bless virtual keyboards and voice activated typing

Glad to see you back sir

[eirebilly]

Cheers Stand.

[rodders]

How did the tactics change for this game than from the 1st match?

Yes..clearly we kicked less.

In defence we kept our shape a lot more, committed less numbers into the contact so our outside defenders weren't sucked in the way they were last week. Clearly that was something identified during the week.

D'arcy and O'Driscoll clearly functioned better as a defensive unit and the outside men... Trimble, McFadden and kearney were much more solid at the back....on the occaisions the ABs did go wide there wasn't the space they found last week and we were able to shut them down. It was an immense defensive display.

In attack we tighened up a lot and attacked them more up the middle, rather than shipping it wide, the ruck ball was quicker and the carrying much more effective.

We targetted the back 3, in particular Savea and with the box kicks, which worked very well.

We actually didn't play to badly the previous week, just made too many individual errors and kicked away too much....defence was exposed out wide and we struggled with the pace of the game.

I think we exposed a few chinks in the ABs and are well capable of ramping it up another Notch next week.

They didn't like the up and unders, the maul worked well but we need to improve the lineout accuracy, BOD and Sexton were able to make yards through SBW and Smith and when they didn't get turnover ball the ABs struggled to break our defence down. Physically we dominated the contact.

The box kicking was top class but some of our kicking from hand needs to improve. Reid dominted the restarts and we need to do better there.

They'll be aware of this and comeback stronger next week but we have to believe we can go one better next week.

[Mickado]

Kiss is an excellent defense coach. But maybe not so good as an attack coach. Not sure how much experience he has in that role to be honest.

Anyway, i've not been in since the game so i thought i'd share my thoughts.

Bloody gut wrenching finish but obviously a lot to be positive about. The entire team had a single vision in mind and really put it up to the ABs, I have to take my hat off and crogratulate Dekkie and his backroom staff because that's the first time in a while we've had a game plan and stuck to it well, it very nearly worked too. I hope we can put in a similar shift this week, consistancy has been lacking in this squad but we've shown we're capable of playing when we want.

Thought Healy had an exceptional game in attack and just checked the stats and he made 13 tackles with none missed. Kudos to Tuouhy and Ryan too, both made 14 with none missed.

[rodders]

My team next week... Heaslip and D'arcy are out right?

15 Kearney
14 Trimble
13 BOD
12 McFadden
11 Earls/Zebo
10 Sexton
9 Murray
8 O'Mahoney
7 O'Brien
6 McLaughlin
5 Ryan
4 Touhy
3 Ross
2 Best
1 Healy

Bench: Fitzpatrick, Cronin, O'Callaghan, Henry, Reddan, ROG, Zebo

Ireland by 7

[asoreleftshoulder]

Kiss is an excellent defense coach. But maybe not so good as an attack coach. Not sure how much experience he has in that role to be honest.

Anyway, i've not been in since the game so i thought i'd share my thoughts.

Bloody gut wrenching finish but obviously a lot to be positive about. The entire team had a single vision in mind and really put it up to the ABs, I have to take my hat off and crogratulate Dekkie and his backroom staff because that's the first time in a while we've had a game plan and stuck to it well, it very nearly worked too. I hope we can put in a similar shift this week, consistancy has been lacking in this squad but we've shown we're capable of playing when we want.

Thought Healy had an exceptional game in attack and just checked the stats and he made 13 tackles with none missed. Kudos to Tuouhy and Ryan too, both made 14 with none missed.

Yeah fully agree with that,I've been a big critic of Kidney in the past so it's only fair to give him credit when it goes right.The performance wasn't perfect but it was a hell of an improvement and a lot of that has to be down to the work of the management,I also thought Kidney did well with his tactical substitutions.

Just on your last point I think Healy has really come into his own this year,his scrummaging still isn't perfect but he's young so inconsistency is to be expected however the good days now far outnumber the bad whereas it used to be closer to 50/50.When people from other countries ask where our replacement for BoD is I think Healy is the guy to point to,obviously as a leader and talisman not a 13(although sometimes you'd wonder if he's a back ina props body).He is going to be a superstar for years to come barring injury.

[Mickado]

What about O’Brien at 8 and O’Mahoney at 7?

[Standulstermen]

The performance was far from perfect but the intensity and appetite was there. You have to ask why we only see it in say 1 in 5/6 games.

I would be very surprised if paddy doesnt make at least the bench for the next game

[rodders]

When people from other countries ask where our replacement for BoD is I think Healy is the guy to point to,obviously as a leader and talisman not a 13(although sometimes you'd wonder if he's a back ina props body).He is going to be a superstar for years to come barring injury.

I think a few leaders have really emerged in the past two weeks, including Healy.

Rory Best, bar a couple of overthrows has been phenomenal.. the NZ commentator were really impressed by him... as they were with Sean O'Brien who is in the form of his life.

Donnacha Ryan really has stood out though, really seemed to be leading the pack along with best. He has been awesome.

Heaslip had his best game in years and BOD showed why he should captain the Lions imo, 2009 vintage stuff from him despite a few lose kicks. O'Mahoney made a big impact when he came on and Sexton had possibly his best game in an Ireland jersey.

Great stuff across the board and I don't think we'll want for leaders when BOD and O'Connell bow out...on this form though BOD could be around for a while yet.

[rodders]

What about O’Brien at 8 and O’Mahoney at 7?

Definitely wouldn't move O'Brien, he's been arguably our best player, he's caused NZ havoc on the deck....he's really taken the game to McCaw.

[Mickado]

You know what you’re right.

Who did POM come on for at the weekend btw?

[Thomond]

The shirt number doesn't matter at all. SOB and O'Mahony will both put in great work regardless of their number.

[Standulstermen]

Came on for McLaughlin. Straight swap with POM replacing Heaslip for me. Mighty harsh on chris Henry considering McLaughlin want in the initial squad but with SOB's form and Henry now being a 7 i think it is fair

[Pete330v2]

My team next week... Heaslip and D'arcy are out right?

15 Kearney
14 Trimble
13 BOD
12 McFadden
11 Earls/Zebo
10 Sexton
9 Murray
8 O'Mahoney
7 O'Brien
6 McLaughlin
5 Ryan
4 Touhy
3 Ross
2 Best
1 Healy

Bench: Fitzpatrick, Cronin, O'Callaghan, Henry, Reddan, ROG, Zebo

Ireland by 7

Rodders I'd be happy with that selection, more than happy.
I can't believe I'm saying it but D'Arcy is a massive loss, he was well and truely back to his best form for Ireland and there's nobody on the squad that can match him when he's like that.

[asoreleftshoulder]

When people from other countries ask where our replacement for BoD is I think Healy is the guy to point to,obviously as a leader and talisman not a 13(although sometimes you'd wonder if he's a back ina props body).He is going to be a superstar for years to come barring injury.

I think a few leaders have really emerged in the past two weeks, including Healy.

Rory Best, bar a couple of overthrows has been phenomenal.. the NZ commentator were really impressed by him... as they were with Sean O'Brien who is in the form of his life.

Donnacha Ryan really has stood out though, really seemed to be leading the pack along with best. He has been awesome.

Heaslip had his best game in years and BOD showed why he should captain the Lions imo, 2009 vintage stuff from him despite a few lose kicks. O'Mahoney made a big impact when he came on and Sexton had possibly his best game in an Ireland jersey.

Great stuff across the board and I don't think we'll want for leaders when BOD and O'Connell bow out...on this form though BOD could be around for a while yet.

Yeah it was great to see,Best will be Irish captain after PoC goes and deservedly so.Ryan has been class all year and O'Mahoney had a great 20 minutes when he came on.I don't think he's big enough be a starting 6 at this level but he put in a hell of a shift,he's probably going to play 8 long term anyway and I'd like to see him start there next week.

While Heaslip had a great game and it's sad to see him lose out to injury I'm glad Henry hasn't gone to NZ just to hold tackle bags,he deserves some game time for the season he has had at Ulster.

[rodders]

Think he came on for McLaughlin, who had a great game too.

POM is better out wide I think, remember the offload to Sexton? brilliant stuff. He looked very good in attack when he came on.

Let him deputise for Heaslip, and let McLaughlin and O'Brien carry on with muscling up to the NZ backrow, which will be much weaker without Reid .... thats what I think anyways.

[eirebilly]

I must admit to still not being convinced that yer man Touhy is a test player rodders.

[Thomond]

Tuohy is the guy who does the "invisible work" So when you see him doing nothing, he is actually doing a lot

[SecretFly]

Ok, didn't plan on being here this morning but just coming in and reading some posts before I log out again,.... well, might as well comment, why waste the entry fee .

ABs didn't like that game at all. Didn't like the physicality, the in-your-faceness. And that's the party Ireland have to introduce them to again. This has to be THAT game, that elusive game whereby Ireland string two intense assault games together one week after another. This is the line in the sand time and their best opportunity to express the desire and ability to do so. If they can turn it on twice in a row against the ABs at home then the journey really will have been worth it as the younger players will truly know what international intensity means and know the requirement to always be in the mental zone to play it when putting on the International shirt.

The AB players will be doing a lot of acting this week...they'll be walking around pretending there are no sore bones and muscles, pretending the isotonic drinks have them back up to 100%, pretending they're going to take Ireland's strengths away from them like naughty children denied sweets, now that they know Ireland are serious. They'll use the excuse that they weren't prepared for the Mark 2 version of Ireland but are ready for it now. They'll do all that - but truly and secretly, the one thing they'll be hoping is that the Ireland of last Saturday doesn't show up this Saturday.

Of course we'll have our own exhausted bodies to worry about and O'Driscoll's face told that the immense effort wasn't worth the pain of losing such a close one. But the strength will come from knowing that the ABs, despite the acting this week, will have felt the effort of that game too. Show them a taste of it again and their hope that Ireland had their chance and will now quietly implode before them will wilt. Mentally, we are close to having them where we want them. A seismic physical first half will be required to sow their doubts again.

[Standulstermen]

I don't think anyone needs to be convinced Billy. He did however play well. Best tackle stats on the day (again I do question their reliability) and although he wasn't able to impose himself as a carrier I don't think many were. To my mind he should take the bench spot when POC returns with DOC dropping out altogether.

One thing that will interest me is that etzebeth tore up the JWRC last year and one year on has two caps for the boks and looks very very good.

I wonder at what age we will see Henderson break through by comparison? I don't think Tuohy will be an Irish legend but he can mix it with the best. Needs to back up his performance this weekend

[Mickado]

A bit like DOC, a LOT of unseen work going on.

Ah in fairness, as I said already he made 14 tackles and missed none. So he got through a lot.

[Thomond]

I know Mick. DOC was always putting in the tackles and hitting the rucks. Like a good second row or backrow.

[rodders]

Give him a chance Billy... I thought he had a really good game, maybe not on par with some others but he put in some massive hits and was excellent in the lineout.

I'd like to see him carry a bit more but overall I don't know what more you can ask? He's a big powerful bloke but maybe doesn't have the engine of someone like O'Connell but he brings a real physical edge and pace and handling skills in the loose. Despite his height he really has great athleticism in the lineout.

I genuinely believe he and Ryan will form an excellent partnership for years to come.

The NZ commentors were impressed anyways so thats good enough for me

[eirebilly]

I dont know, it may just be me but there is something about the guy that doesnt scream International Quality yet. I could be horribly wrong but he does seem to disappear for large chunks of matches.

[Standulstermen]

DOC at his best was churning in stats like Tuohys but we haven't seen that for some time now. It's a no brainer for me. If Tuohy has another game like that he should be our bench option until toner or Henderson can dispace him.

[brennomac]

For info, link below is to the opta stats for the match


ow.ly/bD0Cf

[rodders]

I don't think Touhy was doing unseen work at all, watch some of the huge hits he put in in the first half.... got under the ball and forced a turnover for one.

The one were he was pinged for not rolling was another huge hit, a crucial one too as the ABs were building momentum.

No I do disagree I think he was a big part of the muscular effort that rattled the ABs cages... take him out and you'll notice the difference. Really compliments Ryan, hence Ryan is really standing out.

Watch the lineout work, no I thought he was very good... not awesome like Ryan but very impressive overall.

[eirebilly]

He is just not tall enough rodders

[Mickado]

The Whiff of Cordite lads give their take on things...

http://whiffofcordite.com/

[rodders]

He is just not tall enough rodders

Same old Billy!

[eirebilly]

He is just not tall enough rodders

Same old Billy!

If he was only two inches taller he could be a great international

[Mickado]

Here, if we all had an extra two inches we could be in very different professions!

[rodders]

Nurse get that Voice activated keyboard off this man!

[SecretFly]

Sorry for overlooking this but I was being all righteous on a few posts and when I'm righteous, I is blind

A big welcome back to BillyBones! In that through his life there mustn't be one left in his body that hasn't been rattled! But seriously, hope the recovery is going good and glad you're back thinking of different things to dangerous accidents

[SecretFly]

Here, if we all had an extra two inches we could be in very different professions!

Speak for yourself Mick!!!... I was offered a role and I didn't turn it down because of size. No, I turned it down because it was in the 80s and they wanted me to wear a jacket with shoulder pads!

[Mickado]

Here, if we all had an extra two inches we could be in very different professions!

Speak for yourself Mick!!!... I was offered a role and I didn't turn it down because of size. No, I turned it down because it was in the 80s and they wanted me to wear a jacket with shoulder pads!

I meant on the end of my nose. Always wanted to be a sommelier, darn this button shrón of mine. So incredibley cute and useless.

[eirebilly]

Here, if we all had an extra two inches we could be in very different professions!

Speak for yourself Mick!!!... I was offered a role and I didn't turn it down because of size. No, I turned it down because it was in the 80s and they wanted me to wear a jacket with shoulder pads!

Why have i now got bad music in my head

[Mickado]

Here, if we all had an extra two inches we could be in very different professions!

Speak for yourself Mick!!!... I was offered a role and I didn't turn it down because of size. No, I turned it down because it was in the 80s and they wanted me to wear a jacket with shoulder pads!

Why have i now got bad music in my head

BOW CHIKA WAHWAAAAH, Hi I'm here to fix the shower, and I've got a secret behind my fly...

[rodders]

[eirebilly]

FFS Mick, I have broken ribs man. Stop making me

[Mickado]

Sorry Bill, sorry. This is what you get when someone mentions that someone needs two inches extra.

Soooooooo, how about that Euro Crisis. That’s no laughing matter.

[SecretFly]

Sorry Bill, sorry. This is what you get when someone mentions that someone needs two inches extra.

Soooooooo, how about that Euro Crisis. That’s no laughing matter.

Actually it is kinda. A Greek on the news was being interviewed about the vote they were having...which was really a yes or no to the Euro.

The Greek said: It doesn't matter what they call it. Whether it's a Dracma or a Euro, if you don't have it in your pocket you're still poor.

Brevity is the soul of wit.

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