England v Italy, Quarter Final, Build up and Match Thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

England v Italy (Sunday 24th June, 19:45 KO, BBC 1)

On the back of good defence, England have notched up 2 wins and a draw, confounding the majority of expectations along the way. The unexpected bonus of topping Group D has given them a game against Italy, not Spain, and England have a glorious chance of reaching their first semi-final in 16 years. Italy haven't really started yet and their sole win was against a poor Ireland team but they did manage an impressive draw against the Spanish. The winners will play Germany.......or maybe Greece.

My prediction: England 1-0 Italy

Come on England!

[mystiroakey]

Nothing wrong with it, however, it's all "if's and but's".

They do this after every failure, yet never improve/learn. Why is that?

Initially expectations were low this year granted, but they were rising unrealistically, borne out by a truly wretched performance last night.

One of the Italian players who came on late as a sub actually made more passes than anyone on the England team.

its not ifs and buts, you are confussing this completely- it obviously gets you annoyed. I have no idea why.

I amtalking about how to get more technically gifted players in.. Its kind of simple. Some people think a quota would be a good thing, others dont, whats your problem?

[super_realist]

And how do you think England could get more technically gifted players in Oakey? We always hear of how World Class the likes of Gerrard, Cole, Terry and Rooney are, yet none looked good at all last night.

I've no problem with your optimism. I just think it's misplaced if you think England could have done/ will do better than this stage of a tournament, as I believe it's down to a lot more than technical ability.

I think you've got a great manager in Hodgson, but the players are so over-rated and a country mile behind the best.

Can they improve, I doubt it. Not unless they move the Premier League to Spain or Germany

[mystiroakey]

"And how do you think England could get more technically gifted players in Oakey?"

SR why are you asking a question that has been answered by myself possibly 10 times on this thread.

"I've no problem with your optimism"

i dont have any- why do you think i do?

"I think you've got a great manager in Hodgson"

possibly the worst long term option ever- this is a manger that is proved to make a difference quickly at 18 clubs before, he has never stayed longer than 2 years at these clubs!! alarm bells are ringing big time!!

He acheived with no pressure, the only job he has had when he was under the cosh was liverpool and he was cast out.

I hope he proves me wrong- because he has tactical nouse. but his record suggest he is not a long term option- he is very stubborn with his footyballing system and obviously has issues with his employers and that why he has left of been sacked 20 odd times in his carrer.. he hasnt made any legacys at all!

"Can they improve"

offcourse.

[The Special Juan]

Well, that didn't end too well did it? I think one of the few positives England could take out of that game was that, although Italy had more than 30 shots at goal, I can't remember too many of them that were good shots. De Rossi's was amazing.

[Guest]

Interestingly The Daily Mirror marked four England players 8/10. I don't know what game that fella was watching.

[mystiroakey]

well i would have given terry and possibly hart an 8- but thats it

[GG]

Interestingly The Daily Mirror marked four England players 8/10. I don't know what game that fella was watching.

Apparently they gave Balotelli MOM ahead of Pirlo.

[super_realist]

What's wrong with Hodgson? England have to play that way because they aren't good enough to hold onto the ball, don't pass well and aren't good finishers (Look at Rooney's hilarious record). They need to be defensively strong through necessity, something Hodgson is good at implementing.
THey can't be expansive or assured, parking the bus is a tactic that produces dire but effective results for England.

Who would you rather have, or see taking over in future? You'd be putting the cart before the horse if you tried to play interesting football.

[mystiroakey]

hodgson was perfect tacticly- your right we had to play that way if we were looking at the tourny on results- he couldnt have done much more. know read the rest of my post,

[dummy_half]

Freek
That's the problem with the tabloid ratings - they give 7 to an average performance.

Oh, and while Hart probably did merit an 8, Terry didn't - caught out of position several times, although at least on the worst occasion he did get back to make the covering block on Balotelli. Best outfield player for England was Glenn Johnson, and even he faded in the 2nd half.

What rating did they give Ashley Young? For me he was very lucky not to be the wide player substituted on the hour, especially because Milner was having a solid game while AY was having a bit of a shocker long before the shootout.

[Guest]

Interestingly The Daily Mirror marked four England players 8/10. I don't know what game that fella was watching.

Apparently they gave Balotelli MOM ahead of Pirlo.

They gave Mario a 9 and Pirlo an 8. We're in the wrong jobs folks..

[super_realist]

Terry is a poor, poor player, he only looks good because when he makes a mistake as he frequently does, he's good at recovering from it.

[The Special Juan]

England don't have anyone else that can play on the left like Young.

[Guest]

Ashley Young scored a generous 5.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/england-0-0-italy-daily-mirror-930187

[MtotheC's Wrasslin Biatch]

Marking a footballer out of 10 is nonsense anyway. It's only there to guide people who are unable to form opinions of their own, or to reassure the opinions of the needy.
Rating someone out of 10 is not news.

[mystiroakey]

terry is a poor poor player, he makes mistakes but recovers?

what are you talking about lol

[super_realist]

If he didn't make so many mistakes, he wouldn't have to make so many recoveries. That's simple.

[lorus59]

Where is Duty? Before England lost he was on these boards all the time? Is he like Arsene Wenger, a sore loser?

[mystiroakey]

firstly terry is not a very poor poor player- thats just clear as day- there is no point exagerating when discribing a player. It totally invalidates your opinion

all players make mistakes, but its only a mistake if they cant recover. your point is immaterial.

[Guest]

Where is Duty? Before England lost he was on these boards all the time? Is he like Arsene Wenger, a sore loser?

He's prepping his 'Why England will win the 2014 World Cup' article. Be patient people, the revolution is coming.

[mystiroakey]

Guys our defence ratings are gonna be very high for very obvious reasons.

when thinking back to that game its easy to think we had lost 4-0 or something- truth is it went to 120 mins 0-0.

thats all..

[Steffan]

So now the mighty world beaters are out who are all you English gonna cheer on now then?

[mystiroakey]

portugal

[MtotheC's Wrasslin Biatch]

L'Espana

[mystiroakey]

what about you steffan- obviously you dont have to support italy any more

[Guest]

L'Espana

+1

[GG]

Where is Duty?

Haha, was just about to post that.

[Steffan]

what about you steffan- obviously you dont have to support italy any more

Iv wanted Germany to win from the start. Great team and great fans plus a bit of silverware has been overdue for our fellow Europeans

[sportform]

Marking a footballer out of 10 is nonsense anyway. It's only there to guide people who are unable to form opinions of their own, or to reassure the opinions of the needy.
Rating someone out of 10 is not news.

It's all a game of opinions. That's why we're here.

[MtotheC's Wrasslin Biatch]

Marking a footballer out of 10 is nonsense anyway. It's only there to guide people who are unable to form opinions of their own, or to reassure the opinions of the needy.
Rating someone out of 10 is not news.

It's all a game of opinions. That's why we're here.

True - but 7/10 is not an opinion, it's an equation.

[mystiroakey]

what about you steffan- obviously you dont have to support italy any more

Iv wanted Germany to win from the start. Great team and great fans plus a bit of silverware has been overdue for our fellow Europeans

All teams in the Eurocup are our fellow europeans- even england is your fellow european, and much more??

lol lets support all european teams- can we lose???

[mystiroakey]

Marking a footballer out of 10 is nonsense anyway. It's only there to guide people who are unable to form opinions of their own, or to reassure the opinions of the needy.
Rating someone out of 10 is not news.

It's all a game of opinions. That's why we're here.

True - but 7/10 is not an opinion, it's an equation.

nope its an opinion- 7/10 could be rated in a letter grading- just like a levels or gcse's, you can even use a star rating lol

its not an equation at all- just an opinion.

[Steffan]

what about you steffan- obviously you dont have to support italy any more

Iv wanted Germany to win from the start. Great team and great fans plus a bit of silverware has been overdue for our fellow Europeans

All teams in the Eurocup are our fellow europeans- even england is your fellow european, and much more??

lol lets support all european teams- can we lose???

Yes I know they are all European. My point is I would like to see Germany win this and go on to win the WC in 2014. And yes England are my fellow Europeans

[super_realist]

England players need to go and play abroad for a while. Going to Germany, Italy and Spain will do them the world of good. Staying at awful clubs like Liverpool does nothing for them.

[MtotheC's Wrasslin Biatch]

Marking a footballer out of 10 is nonsense anyway. It's only there to guide people who are unable to form opinions of their own, or to reassure the opinions of the needy.
Rating someone out of 10 is not news.

It's all a game of opinions. That's why we're here.

True - but 7/10 is not an opinion, it's an equation.

nope its an opinion- 7/10 could be rated in a letter grading- just like a levels or gcse's

its not an equation at all- just an opinion.

It's a stupid opinion though.
It doesn't convey anything.
It doesn't say anything about their passing
their shooting
their positioning
their effort

It doesn't convey anything.

[Hoggy_Bear]

Anyone notice how, when Milner was taken off, Italy and Pirlo became even more dominant?

[Guest]

England players need to go and play abroad for a while. Going to Germany, Italy and Spain will do them the world of good. Staying at awful clubs like Liverpool does nothing for them.

I've been banging this drum for donkeys years and agree 100%. But what foreign club is going to pay the kind of wages that our average players are getting over here?

It's quite ironic that on it's inception the PL bigwigs stated that the England football team would benefit from it. Hasn't quite happened has it?

[sportform]

Just going back to an earlier conversation on quotas of foreign players.

I don't think there should be a limit on the number of foreign players in the Premier League. I want English players playing for Man United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City etc because they are good enough not because they have to. I don't think a 20 something players game would increase that significantly. It would more like just make our clubs poorer teams.

Where I think there should be a quota on foreign players is in the academies.
Let's keep under 18 foreign players to a minimum and make sure the English clubs are developing English talent.

[Guest]

Anyone notice how, when Milner was taken off, Italy and Pirlo became even more dominant?

You're not supposed to compliment Milner on here mate.

[sportform]

Just going back to an earlier conversation on quotas of foreign players.

I don't think there should be a limit on the number of foreign players in the Premier League. I want English players playing for Man United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City etc because they are good enough not because they have to. I don't think a 20 something players game would increase that significantly. It would more like just make our clubs poorer teams.

Where I think there should be a quota on foreign players is in the academies.
Let's keep under 18 foreign players to a minimum and make sure the English clubs are developing English talent.

[mystiroakey]

England players need to go and play abroad for a while. Going to Germany, Italy and Spain will do them the world of good. Staying at awful clubs like Liverpool does nothing for them.

odd comment- england need to produce players with technical abililty on a mass scale first, then they will naturally go elsewhere.

we need to fix the whole mentality of grass roots football- competition based on skills rather than games should be looked into. The problem is the big lads play the game and the small kids get shunted out- we need to focus on different games to engage the kids that develop there strength later on.. Thats obviously just one idea.

ED- fact is mate we all know what they are trying to do- they are trying to give an effectiveness grade based on there performnace- any good reveier or grader will also talk about the player.. Anyone that goes by a singular rating to gauge how he played is abit naive.


sportsville- yeah totally agree

[Guest]

Where the Premiership and football league fails English players - is training / bringing up to standard potentially good English prospects ... they are too expensive. It's much cheaper bringing in African, Latin American, Eastern European ... even other Western European (e.g. French) young prospects.

[super_realist]

I think English players are developed, it's just in a way which isn't conjusive to international tournament football. Too defensive, too negative, too deep.

Oakey, are you saying that Gerrard, Lampard, Cole, Rooney etc aren't good enough to play abroad?

All players in the premiership top teams could get a game in the other leagues. It might not be in a Barcelona or Madrid, but they could certainly play for Dortmund, Inter, Lazio, Wolfsburg, Hamburg, etc, only they are too greedy, don't have an ambition and too content in their comfort zones.

[sportform]

?

[mystiroakey]

what do you mean developed?

offcourse they are developed- what are you suggesting?

[lorus59]

How many players in the semi-finalists play in the EPL? Half a dozen or less?

[lorus59]

How many players in the semi-finalists play in the EPL? Half a dozen or less?

[mystiroakey]

I think English players are developed, it's just in a way which isn't conjusive to international tournament football. Too defensive, too negative, too deep.

Oakey, are you saying that Gerrard, Lampard, Cole, Rooney etc aren't good enough to play abroad?

All players in the premiership top teams could get a game in the other leagues. It might not be in a Barcelona or Madrid, but they could certainly play for Dortmund, Inter, Lazio, Wolfsburg, Hamburg, etc, only they are too greedy, don't have an ambition and too content in their comfort zones.

what are you talking about SR. when did i say there wernt good enough

[super_realist]

what do you mean developed?

offcourse they are developed- what are you suggesting?

I mean they go through a training structure, and as such as developed to play that way, but it's inflexible, and that it doesn't suit international football.

Moving elsewhere to leagues where the training/play is designed/and/or compatible to playing international football (e.g. Spain, Italy, Germany) then I can't see them progressing.

You said England needs to produce players on mass with technical ability before moving abroad. I don't see why.
It's odd that all nationalities move to the premiership, but no English move abroad.

[Hoggy_Bear]

Anyone notice how, when Milner was taken off, Italy and Pirlo became even more dominant?

You're not supposed to compliment Milner on here mate.

Fair enough.
Don't think Milner's that good, but I do think his role (and Hodgson's tactics) are sometimes overlooked. Milner plays what might be termed an 'in to out role' IMO in that, when the opposition has the ball he tucks in, giving us 3 in midfield and allowing us to compete in that area and, when we have the ball, he either drifts out wide himself, or drops back to cover for Glen Johnson or Gerrard getting forward. Once Walcott came on, we lost that third man defending in mid-field, switching to a basic 4-4-2, and Pirlo got even more space.
Of course, Walcott probably adds more in an attacking sense than Milner, but it's hard to attack when the opposition have got the ball all the time.

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