Some things are just too obvious!!!

First topic message reminder :

Olympics shot put: Nadzeya Ostapchuk stripped of gold medal


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/19242736
Somethings were just too obvious! Was to me - as I'm sure it was to the many millions more around the world

She could've at least made an effort on the day to look her best and make it appear less obvious.

You got to laugh at Brett Morse's comments

And the fact that he had to apologise - only for us all to find that he was bang on! [ Though he might've been more diplomatic ].

Finally, sad that Valerie Adams had to win her Gold like that - but at least Ostapchuk got caught, and the right person gets to be called the Olympic champion

azania wrote:

english_osprey wrote:please spell it out - if you can

is conte sending evidence directly to you? what sort of evidence?

To be blunt, FloJo was on something not permitted which changed her body structure and voice.

Conte seemed to have sent something to you. He made a claim and you believe him. Now I ask you for the evidence and you come back with jack......again.

Conte is making things up. 100% of home trained Jamaican sprinters are clean. I get my figures from the same place Conte gets his. Prove me wrong.

I've always been very suspicious of Katharine Merry and Sally Gunnell for the same reason. Both enjoyed little initial success as adult athletes but seemed to undergo a physical transformation and increased success. As you say it might just have been increased training but I wasn't aware that could affect your facial features.

djkbrown2001 wrote:
Imagine I am Usain Bolt, Blake, Powell or any of the other high profile Jamaican athlete's chemist.

Its highliy like that I would be European or American. Because of the technological know to develop an undectable PED.

So here I am A European or an American Chemist. I am in it to make money - so i decided to sell it to the Jamaicans.

Why not sell it to athletes from my own country?. I am sure to get a better price?. Why sell it to the Jamaicans and alllow them to dominate and beat athletes from my own country. This doesnt make patriotic or economic sense.

Notice that most if not all the athletes caught up in the BALCO scandal was from USA and other developed nation.


To suggest that Jamaica's success is due to some sort of national PED programme is foolish and runs counter to rational resoning. I am not saying that the odd athletes will not Dope (Steve Mullings anyone? )

The whole 'Jamaicans don't dope because they're too poor' is completely ridiculous. A lot of people are making a lot of money out of Jamaican success, what's a few thousand dollars a year for a doping programme? These athletes are not sorting themselves out, if they did they end up like Mullings. They've got 'strength and conditioning coaches' and dodgy agents to do the actual business of purchasing and applying the PEDs.

The chemists have a product and they have a price - they sell to whoever wants their product. The athlete (or representatives of) go to the chemist, not the other way around, so most of this post is pretty irrelevant anyway.

(I deleted the herbal tea bit, save you the embarrassment of having it on the thread twice.)

DJ,

So what you are implying is that only the Jamaican athletes are making money and only their reps are going to the chemist?

What about athletes from Britain? Are their agents above board?

And who are the dodgy agents you are talking about?

Regarding the herbal tea bit?

It would appear that you havent done Science at school.

Ok lets go back to year 1: A lot of medicines/drugs are derived from natural growing plants.

Give you an example: If you drink cannabis leaf tea and do a drug test it will come up in the test. Thats a FACT. Speaking from experience.

There is nothing inconcievable to what I suggest.

You are speaking from a position of ignorance.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

azania wrote:

english_osprey wrote:please spell it out - if you can

is conte sending evidence directly to you? what sort of evidence?

To be blunt, FloJo was on something not permitted which changed her body structure and voice.
Conte seemed to have sent something to you. He made a claim and you believe him. Now I ask you for the evidence and you come back with jack......again.

Conte is making things up. 100% of home trained Jamaican sprinters are clean. I get my figures from the same place Conte gets his. Prove me wrong.

Well done Az, so you and Conte are both plucking guestimates out of the air.

How about everyone taking a deep breath and discussing civilly.

The first comment in bold was never proven, so innocent until proven guilty, she was never proven guilty.

I know you like your facts and figures Azania so I'll give you this:

If the Jamaicans are 100% clean as you say then given FloJo's lack of failed drugs test means she is also 100% clean. Get it?

I'm not implying anything of the sort. I'm saying that the fact that Jamaica is a relatively poor nation doesn't exclude them from being involved in doping.

I didn't make any comment on people from other nations - you're the one that always comes back with 'what about Britain, etc'. The discussion isn't about them, I'm exactly like EO when I say that I can be suspect of anyone from any nation.

The reason why your 'herbal tea' bit was embarrassing was the fact it essentially said 'the only way the nice innocent, happy go lucky Jamaican could ever get caught would be an innocent accident.'

If you drink 'Cannabis leaf tea' as an athlete and you either don't know that it contains cannabis or you didn't know cannabis was banned, you deserve a long ban for stupidity.

Oh, the dodgy agents are most of them. The end justifies the means for most of them, and then end is to be rolling in as much $$$ as possible.

Hibbz wrote:

azania wrote:

english_osprey wrote:please spell it out - if you can

is conte sending evidence directly to you? what sort of evidence?

To be blunt, FloJo was on something not permitted which changed her body structure and voice.

Conte seemed to have sent something to you. He made a claim and you believe him. Now I ask you for the evidence and you come back with jack......again.

Conte is making things up. 100% of home trained Jamaican sprinters are clean. I get my figures from the same place Conte gets his. Prove me wrong.

I've always been very suspicious of Katharine Merry and Sally Gunnell for the same reason. Both enjoyed little initial success as adult athletes but seemed to undergo a physical transformation and increased success. As you say it might just have been increased training but I wasn't aware that could affect your facial features.

I actually feel a bit suspicious of Jessica Ennis for the same reason. She always had a dainty and cute little face yet her features now seem to have widened. I noticed this when she was on the podium grinning away, her facial features have definitely widened and even though she's still pretty she seems to have become a bit more masculine.

90%+ of athletes takes PED's. Surprised this article has had such a long shelf life.

Speaking from experience, I have been actively involved in low level boxing, MMA and junior athletics at a regional and national level. I have witnessed numerous competitors taking illegal substances

I think people who are arguing the top athletes are clean need to open their eyes.

You've seen doping in junior athletics 'at a regional and national' level?

No.

I didn't finish the sentence, or make my point at all!!

Basically the end of that sentence was I have seen it in boxing and MMA (with adult competitors) but not junior athletics where they rewards are not usually financial.

Bringing in the Financial aspect encourages cheating.

That said, I have seen 15 year old lads displaying signs of steriod abuse, as I am sure most have.

Sorry for the confusion... I blame Jeff Stelling.

Yep, I would imagine there is probably doping in combat sports at all levels. I think the very nature of losing in those sports is justification enough for doing it for a lot of people.

It doesn't really matter what level you are, a punch or kick in the face is still a punch or kick in the face.

Hibbz wrote:

azania wrote:

english_osprey wrote:please spell it out - if you can

is conte sending evidence directly to you? what sort of evidence?

To be blunt, FloJo was on something not permitted which changed her body structure and voice.

Conte seemed to have sent something to you. He made a claim and you believe him. Now I ask you for the evidence and you come back with jack......again.

Conte is making things up. 100% of home trained Jamaican sprinters are clean. I get my figures from the same place Conte gets his. Prove me wrong.

I've always been very suspicious of Katharine Merry and Sally Gunnell for the same reason. Both enjoyed little initial success as adult athletes but seemed to undergo a physical transformation and increased success. As you say it might just have been increased training but I wasn't aware that could affect your facial features.

Merry was a teenage prodigy. At 13 she was running faster than most seniors. Always a very talented runner. Gunnell was a good 100m hurdler with very good technique. She was lucky in that she took up the 400m hurdles when the event was in its infancy. I dont think either were juiced. Merry was always plagued with injuries. I haven't seen any physical transformation other than merry growing into an adult. Gunnell has always been a minger. Typical Essex woman.

djkbrown2001 wrote:
DJ,

So what you are implying is that only the Jamaican athletes are making money and only their reps are going to the chemist?

What about athletes from Britain? Are their agents above board?

And who are the dodgy agents you are talking about?

Regarding the herbal tea bit?

It would appear that you havent done Science at school.

Ok lets go back to year 1: A lot of medicines/drugs are derived from natural growing plants.

Give you an example: If you drink cannabis leaf tea and do a drug test it will come up in the test. Thats a FACT. Speaking from experience.

There is nothing inconcievable to what I suggest.

You are speaking from a position of ignorance.

How dare you question the honesty of the Brits. Its only Johnny Foreigner who cheat. Look at Brit footballers. None of them dive.

Lumbering_Jack wrote:90%+ of athletes takes PED's. Surprised this article has had such a long shelf life.

Speaking from experience, I have been actively involved in low level boxing, MMA and junior athletics at a regional and national level. I have witnessed numerous competitors taking illegal substances

I think people who are arguing the top athletes are clean need to open their eyes.

I suppose you get your figure from where Conte and I got our figures from.

azania wrote:

djkbrown2001 wrote:
DJ,

So what you are implying is that only the Jamaican athletes are making money and only their reps are going to the chemist?

What about athletes from Britain? Are their agents above board?

And who are the dodgy agents you are talking about?

Regarding the herbal tea bit?

It would appear that you havent done Science at school.

Ok lets go back to year 1: A lot of medicines/drugs are derived from natural growing plants.

Give you an example: If you drink cannabis leaf tea and do a drug test it will come up in the test. Thats a FACT. Speaking from experience.

There is nothing inconcievable to what I suggest.

You are speaking from a position of ignorance.

How dare you question the honesty of the Brits. Its only Johnny Foreigner who cheat. Look at Brit footballers. None of them dive.

Yes and how dare anyone question the Jamaicans who are all 100% clean - despite Yohan Blake, Marvin Anderson and Sheri Ann Brookes tested positive for a stimulant three years ago.

azania wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:90%+ of athletes takes PED's. Surprised this article has had such a long shelf life.

Speaking from experience, I have been actively involved in low level boxing, MMA and junior athletics at a regional and national level. I have witnessed numerous competitors taking illegal substances

I think people who are arguing the top athletes are clean need to open their eyes.

I suppose you get your figure from where Conte and I got our figures from.

As a man who loves facts and figures and proof. You said Usain Bolt has "never looked like failing a drugs test" and is 100% clean. Now FloJo also "never looked like failing a drugs test". FloJo never failed a drugs test, was tested many many times and never looked like failing a drugs test so by your logic she is also 100% clean right? If not, then you are a hypocrite.

Super D Boon wrote:

azania wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:90%+ of athletes takes PED's. Surprised this article has had such a long shelf life.

Speaking from experience, I have been actively involved in low level boxing, MMA and junior athletics at a regional and national level. I have witnessed numerous competitors taking illegal substances

I think people who are arguing the top athletes are clean need to open their eyes.

I suppose you get your figure from where Conte and I got our figures from.

As a man who loves facts and figures and proof. You said Usain Bolt has "never looked like failing a drugs test" and is 100% clean. Now FloJo also "never looked like failing a drugs test". FloJo never failed a drugs test, was tested many many times and never looked like failing a drugs test so by your logic she is also 100% clean right? If not, then you are a hypocrite.

FloJo wasn't tested "many times", she retired when testing program's started gearing up in intensity. That said, she never tested positive though there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that points to doping.

Hmm. Nothing of substance to add to this " debate" , which doesn't seem to be stopping some people

..But : Twice now Mr Boon has suggested Ennis is looking "masculine". So either my old eyes are really going or there is something funny in those pure Tasmanian waters...sorry Boonie I just can't take that seriously...

alfie wrote:Hmm. Nothing of substance to add to this " debate" , which doesn't seem to be stopping some people

..But : Twice now Mr Boon has suggested Ennis is looking "masculine". So either my old eyes are really going or there is something funny in those pure Tasmanian waters...sorry Boonie I just can't take that seriously...

I have a serious thing for Ennis Now if that is what a man looks like, then I've got some deep soul searching to do

Since this thread has digress. I will also digress a little,

Please see link: Shows how a combination of factors can lead to success and domination.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2197033/We-afford-compete-France-accuses-Britain-techno-cheating---again.html

It was quite noticeable that not one Caribbean athlete was in the paralympic 100m/200m final.

Strawberry Jam wrote:

alfie wrote:Hmm. Nothing of substance to add to this " debate" , which doesn't seem to be stopping some people

..But : Twice now Mr Boon has suggested Ennis is looking "masculine". So either my old eyes are really going or there is something funny in those pure Tasmanian waters...sorry Boonie I just can't take that seriously...

I have a serious thing for Ennis Now if that is what a man looks like, then I've got some deep soul searching to do

Well each to their own and all that. Perhaps she's no my cup of tea but I don;t see her as especially feminine in these photos. Just I remember her being a bit more deinty than this that's all.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/olympics/article-2183764/London-2012-Olympics-Jessica-Ennis-wins-heptathlon-gold-medal.html

Super D Boon wrote:

azania wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:90%+ of athletes takes PED's. Surprised this article has had such a long shelf life.

Speaking from experience, I have been actively involved in low level boxing, MMA and junior athletics at a regional and national level. I have witnessed numerous competitors taking illegal substances

I think people who are arguing the top athletes are clean need to open their eyes.

I suppose you get your figure from where Conte and I got our figures from.

As a man who loves facts and figures and proof. You said Usain Bolt has "never looked like failing a drugs test" and is 100% clean. Now FloJo also "never looked like failing a drugs test". FloJo never failed a drugs test, was tested many many times and never looked like failing a drugs test so by your logic she is also 100% clean right? If not, then you are a hypocrite.

Jarmilla Kratochvilova, Marita Koch and a host of eastern Euro runners at the same time as FloJo never looked like failing a test and never did. In fact both are still world record holders in the 800m and 400m respectively. That Soviet wo/man who beat Sharon Davis in the Moscow Olympics didn't fail a drug test.

As soon as random testing was introduced, FloJo retired. Bolt is tested often and randomly. So was Jones mind and Chambers, but the testers now retain samples (blood and urine) for up to 10 years. He is 100% clean. So are all Jamaican trained athletes. Those who decide to train in USA are dodgy. Steve Mullens who was a training partner of Tyson Gay - guilty by association?

azania wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

azania wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:90%+ of athletes takes PED's. Surprised this article has had such a long shelf life.

Speaking from experience, I have been actively involved in low level boxing, MMA and junior athletics at a regional and national level. I have witnessed numerous competitors taking illegal substances

I think people who are arguing the top athletes are clean need to open their eyes.

I suppose you get your figure from where Conte and I got our figures from.

As a man who loves facts and figures and proof. You said Usain Bolt has "never looked like failing a drugs test" and is 100% clean. Now FloJo also "never looked like failing a drugs test". FloJo never failed a drugs test, was tested many many times and never looked like failing a drugs test so by your logic she is also 100% clean right? If not, then you are a hypocrite.

Jarmilla Kratochvilova, Marita Koch and a host of eastern Euro runners at the same time as FloJo never looked like failing a test and never did. In fact both are still world record holders in the 800m and 400m respectively. That Soviet wo/man who beat Sharon Davis in the Moscow Olympics didn't fail a drug test.

As soon as random testing was introduced, FloJo retired. Bolt is tested often and randomly. So was Jones mind and Chambers, but the testers now retain samples (blood and urine) for up to 10 years. He is 100% clean. So are all Jamaican trained athletes. Those who decide to train in USA are dodgy. Steve Mullens who was a training partner of Tyson Gay - guilty by association?

The East German scenario is completely different and you know it. Documents came out years later after the fall of the Iron Curtain which implicated many of the East Germans, espcailly Koch as she used to complain bitterly about not getting strong enough doses. Failed tests or not, they became tarnished athletes. Koch was so pumped full of the stuff I think she probably ended up growing one (See what I did there?)

Yohan Blake along with other Jamaicans failed a drugs test and was banned for a few months. Not a serious ban but a failed test nonetheless, one more failed test than FloJo I might add. In FloJos case she was so obviosuly pumped to the eyeballs on steroids that she didn't even need to push herself out of the blocks properly. All she did was walk out of the blocks and started running. She had terrible technique but it didn't matter as she was so souped up (alledgedly) she would blow the others away if she gave them a 10 meter head start.

I'm not standing up for the Euros or the USA and have no agenda against the Jamicans but to suggest their secret is yams and breadfruit and they're pure and clean is a bit fanciful. As has been said a million times the doped up athletes can walk through a test because the composition of PEDs is changed to avoid detection.

Believe what you want to I guess but the same applies with whether you want to believe in FloJo or not. She may have looked for all the world pumped up but nothing was ever proven so you can only ever speculate.

I actually think that FloJo improved her technique which enabled her to run faster. Her stride length and knee lift improved. She got her shoulders working more.

Blake got busted for taking some non descriptive substance that can be bought over the counter. So did a British sprinter called Solomon Wariso. You would think that after being banned for taking something innocuous you would stay clear of the serious stuff that carries a 2 year ban.

There is no secret about Jamaican sprinting. It is their main sport and hugely popular. Right now they are in their golden generation much like Windies cricket was 20 or so years ago. When the current batch leave the scene it wil be business as usual. The Spanish are in their own golden era in football where every player in every position is a world class talent. The Belgians are entering theirs now. These things just happen. Plus they work damn hard. Simeon Williamson trained with them and he was described as lazy because he couldn't keep up with their regime. Even Johnson was in awe of their work ethic.

Now Bolt may say he is lazy. That is part o his act.

Nothing was ever proven with the Czech Kratockvilova. She was actually giving out medals in a world championship or Olympics. In fact she denied taking anything. Yep, I dont believe her.

You know that people don't take steroids to run faster, they take them to train harder?

There's a reason why the IAAF cut down on OOC testing in the winter season. Why would they risk testing more when they know the athletes will be on their cycle.

I actually think that FloJo improved her technique which enabled her to run faster. Her stride length and knee lift improved. She got her shoulders working more.

------------

Geez as soon as I agree with you on something you start disagreeing! I made particular reference to FloJo's start which was awful. She practically walked out of the blocks and started running. She was so far ahead of the others she didn't need to push out of the blocks to build up power.

I agree with Dj on the training issue. I really can't see how you can say the Jamaicans are so good because they work so hard. There's only so much hard work the human body can take before the muscles break down. That's where HGH comes in. So many of the sprinters use it. Would not be at all surprised if Blake was on it given his shape.

I think the 200m is a particular worry. It took something like 25 years for Johnson to take down Menea's record of 19.72. Now you have guys taking 0.50 off that for fun. It just doesn't seem right because it used to be a real achievement to come under 20s.

"There's a reason why the IAAF cut down on OOC testing in the winter season"

There is no Winter in Jamaica. This makes all year round training relatively easier.

This is one thing people seem to forget, that athletes from the caribbean can get in more training than their counterpart from colder countries.

Not many athletes will get out in the cold to train in December at -5C and snow.

Meanwhile in the Caribbean it is a warm 27C.

"There is no secret about Jamaican sprinting. It is their main sport and hugely popular. Right now they are in their golden generation much like Windies cricket was 20 or so years ago"

This (the golden generation) was destined to happen considering Jamaica's athletic tradition that goes back to over 100 years (the first national high school championship held in 1911) and Jamaica won its first Gold at London 1948.

The youth competition and talent spotting in Jamaica is the best in the world. Boys and girls champs have crowd (35000) bigger than most European Grand Prix meets. The last meet was covered by media from over 11 countries. Where in the world would you find that?

Coaches from over 100 American Universities attend Boys and Girls Champs, looking to sign promising athletes.

In the past jamaican athletes used to to to the USA on scholarship. After 4 years in the NCCA they would be burnt out because the colleges were only interesting in winning and not the welfare of the athletes. A number of young sprinters have been destroyed in the past by the American Collegiate system.

Today most of the promising sprinters stay at home and train at UWI, GC Fosters College and UTECH.

It is against these backdrops that athletes like Usain et al rises and goes to someway in explaining the recent dominance.


I predicted Blake in 2007 on the old BBC 606. Wish I could dig this up now.

I am now going to predict Jazeel Murphy - the next great Jamaican Sprinter. He ran 20.96 200m as a 15 year old! and 10.27 100m as a 16 year old.

He has been injuried over the past two seasons, but when he sort those problems out. The World be better on the look out. He is now under the guidance of the the Great Glen Mills.

When I said 'winter season' you knew I meant non-competition season.

This is when the athletes dope and it's also when the IAAF do the least amount of testing.

There is a good reason for this.

"This is when the athletes dope and it's also when the IAAF do the least amount of testing"

If this is common knowledge then the IAAF needs to do more testing. They should not be pussyfooting about.

Going back to the out of competition/winter season bit. All things being equal athletes from the warmer climate will still get more training in during these period and are also able to start their season earlier.

The first major meets in Jamaica starts in Feb/March each year.

Sprinters can train indoors.

Super D Boon wrote:I actually think that FloJo improved her technique which enabled her to run faster. Her stride length and knee lift improved. She got her shoulders working more.

------------

Geez as soon as I agree with you on something you start disagreeing! I made particular reference to FloJo's start which was awful. She practically walked out of the blocks and started running. She was so far ahead of the others she didn't need to push out of the blocks to build up power.

I agree with Dj on the training issue. I really can't see how you can say the Jamaicans are so good because they work so hard. There's only so much hard work the human body can take before the muscles break down. That's where HGH comes in. So many of the sprinters use it. Would not be at all surprised if Blake was on it given his shape.

I think the 200m is a particular worry. It took something like 25 years for Johnson to take down Menea's record of 19.72. Now you have guys taking 0.50 off that for fun. It just doesn't seem right because it used to be a real achievement to come under 20s.

Her start was terrible I agree. From 30m she was gone.

And when Menea's record was broken, guys like Frankie Frederick beat that time trying to catch up with MJ. MJ dragged him faster much like Bolt is dragging other guys to better times.

BTW it was 19.73 just to be a pedant.

djlovesyou wrote:You know that people don't take steroids to run faster, they take them to train harder?

There's a reason why the IAAF cut down on OOC testing in the winter season. Why would they risk testing more when they know the athletes will be on their cycle.

Yes dj, they make you train harder and thus run faster. Yams, bananas, ital food and dashin also helps. Plus the all weather training climate.

Cool Runnins ijahman.

djlovesyou wrote:You know that people don't take steroids to run faster, they take them to train harder?

There's a reason why the IAAF cut down on OOC testing in the winter season. Why would they risk testing more when they know the athletes will be on their cycle.

Source ??

djlovesyou wrote:You know that people don't take steroids to run faster, they take them to train harder?

There's a reason why the IAAF cut down on OOC testing in the winter season. Why would they risk testing more when they know the athletes will be on their cycle.

Do you have you tin foil hat on?

djlovesyou wrote:You know that people don't take steroids to run faster, they take them to train harder?

The harder you train, the faster you run, generally speaking.

Fair play this article has done some miles hasn't it?! Nadzeya who was it?

Super D Boon wrote:Fair play this article has done some miles hasn't it?! Nadzeya who was it?

That's ok, she's still holding onto her medal claiming "its a fix by the Russian mafia, and anyway everyone else was doping"

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:Fair play this article has done some miles hasn't it?! Nadzeya who was it?

That's ok, she's still holding onto her medal claiming "its a fix by the Russian mafia, and anyway everyone else was doping"

So I guess they'd have to mint another one for Valerie Adams?

I don't feel sorry for her but kind of see where Ostapchyk (sp) is getting it from, there must have been tons of dopers. Heaven forbid they strip one of the bigger (and dare I say more aethetically pleasing) names as it would cause damage to the sport. Stripping a female shot putter who looks like a man will cause no damage and even please people. Of course the holyer than thou Jamaicans needn't worry about any of that! All those yams and warm winters are all they need!

"There's a reason why the IAAF cut down on OOC testing in the winter season. Why would they risk testing more when they know the athletes will be on their cycle".

conspiracy theories anyone. You probably believed that the moon landing is a fake.

You and your fellow collaborators are basically accusing the IAAF of coulluding with the dopers.

I have never heard such undiluted tosh in my life.

"All those yams and warm winters are all they need"

Are you trying to ridicule and be sarcastic?

Yams, breadfruits, are rich in carbs. The caribbean diet is a high carb diet.
Every knows that carbs provides energy.

Maybe you would also ridicule the maize meal diet of the Kenyan and Ethiopian. Remember Mo went there and feed on that diet as well.

As for the all weather training. Track expert of no lesser stature than MJ suggest that the warm caribbean weather is condusive to getting in more training than in the temperate regions.

I am not saying that these are the only factors. But they are part of a mulitplicity of factors operating in concert, but you guys are so ideologically fixated that it clouds your judgement and prevents reasoning and analysis.

So I will spell it out again. The reaons for the Caribbean/Jamaica Success are a combination of factors: They are:

a. A Genetic predisposition

b. An athletic tradition with great role models (Herb, Arthur Wint, Quarrie et al)

c. Good Coaching

d. Talent spotting and development


e. The best youth athletic programme anywhere in the world

f. Social climate that promotes athletic excellence

g. Weather/climate conducsive to year round training

h. Early exposure to competition from early years (from Primary School aged 6, meanwhile in the UK competition is not encouraged at that young age).

i. Political committment- Former Prime Minister Patterson spotted bolt at the aged of 15 and got personally involved moving him form Trelawny to Kingston at the IAAF High Performing Centre at UWI.

j. The Caribbean way of life. Active lifestyle. Not many fat ass people there. When i was growing up I used to walk 5 miles to school RTN (50 miles per week). Kids play in the street not sit at home munching on junk food and play Xbox. We eat natural back then not processed junk. If you look at most of Jamaican elite athletes they are from Trelawny parish. Very hilly terrain.

K. Athletes are celebrities. Everyone wants to be Bolt, Campbel, Ottey etc. Not Big Brother Star or Katie Price. So they go out and run/train.


So go ahead DJ , English et al, Ignore the above, bury your head in the sand and continue to claim that the sucess is due to some form of doping.

I will suggest that if you guys can afford it. Take a trip next year March 2012 to the Boys and Girls Championship. I Can assure you that you will neve see anything like it.

you jamaican drug-apologists make me smile you really do.

Looking at your posts its like they are written by machines.

1.You write your usual yam-based nonsense.
2. People write back and point out that jamaicans(and many others it must be said) are obvious drug-takers.
3. You rant furiously and make many, often bizarre, unsupported and hopeless points.
4. Posters point out to you their suspicions, times that are too fast, bodies that are 'unusually shaped' the utter dominance of world sprinting by a tiny third world country, the drug bans, the ready availability of 'untraceable' synthetic steroids, the suspicions of those at the very cenre of the illegal drug trade etc etc etc.
5. Cue even more ranting, accusations of racism (ho hum) but no actual answers to the crucial questions that have been posed.
6. Storm of ranting winds down, an uneasy truce. Time goes by and then as if by magic the machine kicks again and you make exactly the same hopeless arguements that you made in earlier posts! Do you think we'll believe you now ?

All your sad arguements have been done to death. Let me ask you one question that you won't answer
The boys and girls championships that you love so much? Where were they between 1976 and 2008 when jamaica didn't win a single olympic medal? What do you think is the essential difference between those oh so empty 30 years and the sudden success of now? The diet's the same, the sunshine's the same, the inbuilt genetic advantage is the same, the culture's the same Do i need to spell it out to you?
(It's peds in case you were struggling djk.)


So that's it for me boys as far as the drugs arguement goes. I know that a lot of the worlds track and field stars are taking peds, and so does everybody else who has any knowledge of athletics and isn't hopelessly compromised by an 'I hate whitey' agenda. How many and to what extent obviously i don't have the details but it's a lot more than you think, believe me.
Shortly there will be a cycling-like expose of peds in track and field and I'm sort of looking forward to it. It will of course damage the sport in the short term but it will emerge hopefully stronger.

So go ahead DJ , English et al, Ignore the above, bury your head in the sand and continue to claim that the sucess is due to some form of doping.

I will suggest that if you guys can afford it. Take a trip next year March 2012 to the Boys and Girls Championship. I Can assure you that you will neve see anything like it.
.--------------

Look no one is querying the Jamaicans success or their good athletic programmes but pleeeaassee this is getting ridiculous now to suggest that their diet of yams and breadfruit is the reason for their success and no doping at all/ they're the only ones with good programmes/talent spotting while the rest of the world are doping

So right, the rest of the world doesn't have complex athletics programmes and talent spotting schemes? The rest of the world can't have access to foods rich in carbs?

The Jamicans are highly likely NOT to be 100% clean as you and Azania assert given that the whole world of sprinting is RIFE with drugs cheats!

Given that Yohan Blake amongst other Jamaicans have tested positive for stimulants in the past plus the fact the Jamaicans don't have the best random testing schemes to say the least then your rosy and hugely biased view is likely to be very wrong. I'm not against the Jamicans, I think the whole damn world of sprinting is corrupt but your bias and naievity is vomit inducing.

EO

All with no proof or evidence. Just gossip and guessing.

Nice and amusing rant though. Reminds me of Harry Enfield.

Boon

I am saying that the Jamaicans who train in Jamaica are clean. Those who train in USA are likely to be drugegd up.

azania wrote:Boon

I am saying that the Jamaicans who train in Jamaica are clean. Those who train in USA are likely to be drugegd up.

Why? Is it because there are lots of nasty evil white people in the USA who will be quick to try and corrupt the innocent, pure Jamaican soul?

english_osprey wrote:you jamaican drug-apologists make me smile you really do.

Looking at your posts its like they are written by machines.

1.You write your usual yam-based nonsense.
2. People write back and point out that jamaicans(and many others it must be said) are obvious drug-takers.
3. You rant furiously and make many, often bizarre, unsupported and hopeless points.
4. Posters point out to you their suspicions, times that are too fast, bodies that are 'unusually shaped' the utter dominance of world sprinting by a tiny third world country, the drug bans, the ready availability of 'untraceable' synthetic steroids, the suspicions of those at the very cenre of the illegal drug trade etc etc etc.
5. Cue even more ranting, accusations of racism (ho hum) but no actual answers to the crucial questions that have been posed.
6. Storm of ranting winds down, an uneasy truce. Time goes by and then as if by magic the machine kicks again and you make exactly the same hopeless arguements that you made in earlier posts! Do you think we'll believe you now ?

All your sad arguements have been done to death. Let me ask you one question that you won't answer
The boys and girls championships that you love so much? Where were they between 1976 and 2008 when jamaica didn't win a single olympic medal? What do you think is the essential difference between those oh so empty 30 years and the sudden success of now? The diet's the same, the sunshine's the same, the inbuilt genetic advantage is the same, the culture's the same Do i need to spell it out to you?
(It's peds in case you were struggling djk.)


So that's it for me boys as far as the drugs arguement goes. I know that a lot of the worlds track and field stars are taking peds, and so does everybody else who has any knowledge of athletics and isn't hopelessly compromised by an 'I hate whitey' agenda. How many and to what extent obviously i don't have the details but it's a lot more than you think, believe me.
Shortly there will be a cycling-like expose of peds in track and field and I'm sort of looking forward to it. It will of course damage the sport in the short term but it will emerge hopefully stronger.

Bolt eats chicken nuggets. So perhaps it is the chicken nuggets that makes him such a superb athlete.
2) Only you write that Jamaicans are OBVIOUS drug takers and with no evidence.
3) I'm still waiting for proof that 70% of the finalists are juicers. Sorry but your word is not good enough.
4) What body shape? Bolt is tall and lean. Blake is short and squat. Powell is the typical build. Weir is short and wirey. Ashmead is normal sprinter build. Frater is small, lean but muscular. Every runner has a very different build. You're making stuff up again.
5) What crucial questions? All your inanely stupid questions have been answered. The question about the 70% on juice is still pending though.
6) No truce./ You're simply a bitter old man who cant take it that a tiny 3rd world nation is punching above its weight. Jamaicans who train in JA are 100% clean. Sprinters who train in Europe and USA are obviously dirty. The only JA runner caught with PEDs trained in USA, a mighty 1st world nation. We 3rd worlders are always clean. Live with it my little icalla.

JA now have a golden generation of sprinters. Enjoy them at their best. Just like Spain have a golden generation of footballers. Enjoy tika taka football whilst it lasts icalla.

SO EO me old china, other than idle housewives gossip, what evidence do you have that those wonderful JA sprinters are on PEDs?

I agree with you that a lot of T&F stars are on PEDs. The JA and other English speaking Caribbean stars who train in Caribbean are not. They are 100% clean.

Why are you talking about white people. USA is ethnically diverse in case you didn't know. Its a melting pot. Plus most of the sprinters caught with PEDs in their system have been black.

Celebrate diversity (not the dance troupe).

What is your problem?

And dj, cut out the race baiting. It makes you appear more insecure than you already are. Interesting that you are EO are the ones talking about race. I wonder why? Please tell us all.

"I am saying that the Jamaicans who train in Jamaica are clean. Those who train in USA are likely to be drugegd up"

See what i mean? No sense, no logic, no knowledge.
jamaica good. usa bad

I was just confused by your reasoning for thinking that Jamaicans in Jamaica are clean and those elsewhere are not. Particularly as it's a ridiculous comment.

Coupled with the fact that you don't like white people, I just thought I'd ask the question.

You are a funny little boy dj. You refer to my claims as ridiculous yet make up an extremely ridiculous comment to end it. Try talking about athletics assuming you know anything about it.

All JA sprinters caught with juice were training outside JA. Maybe they should order ital food and mannish water when they leave JA.

Why do you hate black people?