Irish Independent on Premiership and Heineken Cup

This was posted on the Chiefs board desperate for bigger slice of the pie and the following extract from it.

"I note that the Exeter Chiefs, who won 12 of their games in the Aviva Premiership and finished fifth, which apparently entitles them on merit to come to Dublin to face Leinster on Saturday, October 13 in the first match in Pool 5. The only thing that is standing between Exeter and a rapid-eye-movement nightmare of a thrashing is that Leinster might not be fully up to speed or indeed battle-hardened; certainly their top-tier players will not be fully up to pace. If Leinster had left their contingent in New Zealand for the whole summer playing the All Blacks three times a week and went home in an air ambulance to face Exeter, they would still put 50 points on them. Whichever way you look at it, it's not a level playing field. Exeter have qualified by right, but they are not good enough to be in this competition."

hmmm couldn't find the emoticon to go with this but maybe you can suggest one

Exeter have qualified by right, but they are not good enough to be in this competition.

I don't know how someone can say this, Exeter have qualified by right and we'll see if they are good enough for the H-cup

and what makes good enough? able to qualify from your group, Sure then there are plenty of teams not good enough.
or able to get maybe a win and give everyone a tough game, well then Exeter are Good enough.

Think this is just the first responce to the English french threat, have the media question if the bottom English and French teams that qualify are any better than the lowest Rabo teams that qualify?

Moorsman wrote:This was posted on the Chiefs board desperate for bigger slice of the pie and the following extract from it.

"I note that the Exeter Chiefs, who won 12 of their games in the Aviva Premiership and finished fifth, which apparently entitles them on merit to come to Dublin to face Leinster on Saturday, October 13 in the first match in Pool 5. The only thing that is standing between Exeter and a rapid-eye-movement nightmare of a thrashing is that Leinster might not be fully up to speed or indeed battle-hardened; certainly their top-tier players will not be fully up to pace. If Leinster had left their contingent in New Zealand for the whole summer playing the All Blacks three times a week and went home in an air ambulance to face Exeter, they would still put 50 points on them. Whichever way you look at it, it's not a level playing field. Exeter have qualified by right, but they are not good enough to be in this competition."

hmmm couldn't find the emoticon to go with this but maybe you can suggest one

Can someone design a "Classless gobshyte" emoteicon for that journo.

Ah. Just spotted that it's Franno. Nuff said.

Who wrote this? Why are journos who are supposed to be "experts" so stupid?

the chiefs may not be at leinsters level but they will not be the worst team in the HC this year, im certain of that.

Also if leinster players arent ready for the HC games then the management is doing something wrong, every game in the HC is crucial.

Evidently the Irish independent has never heard of a certain Irish region.

7 wins, 1 draw, 14 losses in the Pro12 in the 2011-12

Equivalent of 10th in the AP 2011-12 Worcester.

Win 8 out of 28 games in the Pro12 and HC and you can qualify. Bravo.

It's Neil Francis. Neil Francis.

I recommend taking him as seriously as Irish rugby fans do. Not at all.

This could almost be Western Fail standard journalism (which trust me, is really really not a good thing!)

Am sure Exeter's dressing room is going to love it though.

Guys you had to realize Neil Francis is the most obnoxious bigoted waste of space in Irish rugby.

He is universally disliked

beshocked wrote:Evidently the Irish independent has never heard of a certain Irish region.

7 wins, 1 draw, 14 losses in the Pro12 in the 2011-12

Equivalent of 10th in the AP 2011-12 Worcester.

Win 8 out of 28 games in the Pro12 and HC and you can qualify. Bravo.

I believe you can seek medical/psychiatric attention for that "Connacht complex"

Franno may well be (read is) a gobshyte, but barring that paragraph he makes a few decent (if heavy handed) points.

Ah so Neil Francis is to the Irish what Andy Howell is to the Welsh?

I believe I understand now

geoff998rugby wrote:Guys you had to realize Neil Francis is the most obnoxious bigoted waste of space in Irish rugby.

He is universally disliked

For English readers. Think Jeremy Clarkson with less personality and a voice that would put you to sleep

beshocked wrote:Evidently the Irish independent has never heard of a certain Irish region.

7 wins, 1 draw, 14 losses in the Pro12 in the 2011-12

Equivalent of 10th in the AP 2011-12 Worcester.

Win 8 out of 28 games in the Pro12 and HC and you can qualify. Bravo.

What is your issue with connacht? Why do you keep bringing them up?

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

beshocked wrote:Evidently the Irish independent has never heard of a certain Irish region.

7 wins, 1 draw, 14 losses in the Pro12 in the 2011-12

Equivalent of 10th in the AP 2011-12 Worcester.

Win 8 out of 28 games in the Pro12 and HC and you can qualify. Bravo.

What is your issue with connacht? Why do you keep bringing them up?

His maths are excellent too.

Jenifer it's my defensive retort against you Irish whenever one of your kinsman attacks English clubs.

It seems Exeter are getting a beating recently by Irish posters. I can't understand why though. They are probably most neutral's favourites in the AP, the most improved side in the AP and have decent attendances.

Which are the few decent points?

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

beshocked wrote:Evidently the Irish independent has never heard of a certain Irish region.

7 wins, 1 draw, 14 losses in the Pro12 in the 2011-12

Equivalent of 10th in the AP 2011-12 Worcester.

Win 8 out of 28 games in the Pro12 and HC and you can qualify. Bravo.

What is your issue with connacht? Why do you keep bringing them up?

His maths are excellent too.

Is that sarcasm? I am absolutely correct - because of the 1 win out of 6 in the HC.

That's 7 out of 22 in the Pro12.
1 win out of 6 in the HC though I know that 1 win should count as 10 wins as it was such an impressive feat. Who was it Connacht beat? I can't remember.

beshocked wrote:Jenifer it's my defensive retort against you Irish whenever one of your kinsman attacks English clubs.

It seems Exeter are getting a beating recently by Irish posters. I can't understand why though. They are probably most neutral's favourites in the AP, the most improved side in the AP and have decent attendances.

Which are the few decent points?

The exact same can be said about connacht

Which bit? Most improved in the Pro12? Decent attendances?

If Connacht make Top 6 in the Pro12 at the end of next season, I will write an article praising their efforts. Or alternatively if they make the HC quarter finals.

beshocked wrote:Jenifer it's my defensive retort against you Irish whenever one of your kinsman attacks English clubs.

It seems Exeter are getting a beating recently by Irish posters. I can't understand why though. They are probably most neutral's favourites in the AP, the most improved side in the AP and have decent attendances.

Which are the few decent points?

Hey. I like Exeter too. Looking forward to meeting their fans and not taking them for granted at all.

Points? I'll pick a few at random.

franno wrote:
When they say "it's not the money, it's the principle," you can be certain it's about the money.

franno wrote:McCafferty thinks that the fact that Leinster or Munster rest or rotate their squad for Rabo, which leaves them free to concentrate on winning the Heineken Cup, gives them an unfair advantage. He thinks it is not a level playing field and as a consequence England and France will pull out and form an Anglo-French competition.

In and around 2003, Wasps and Tigers won Heineken Cups based on the fact that they were seen as battled-hardened. Now that they are not winning, it's because Celtic sides are too fresh.

franno wrote:Toulouse and Clermont have such large, quality squads that they could field a completely different side each week in one calendar month and still win all their matches.

That's just a few. There's more.

beshocked wrote:Which bit? Most improved in the Pro12? Decent attendances?

If Connacht make Top 6 in the Pro12 at the end of next season, I will write an article praising their efforts. Or alternatively if they make the HC quarter finals.

I think they are in with a shout of the first. Bit of a stretch to say HC QF but they have the best chance with their group to do it.

beshocked wrote:Which bit? Most improved in the Pro12? Decent attendances?

If Connacht make Top 6 in the Pro12 at the end of next season, I will write an article praising their efforts. Or alternatively if they make the HC quarter finals.

They are improving each year and are building a good fan base.

Jenifer I don't agree with the whole Celtic sides are fresher argument except possibly for Leinster but they are the best side in Europe so is it really down to being fresher?

Edinburgh piled all their eggs into the HC basket because they could but the likes of London Irish,Toulouse and Racing Metro should have done better.

Of course it's about the money but it's also about 11 out of 12 Pro12 clubs being in the HC too.

It's not exactly a level playing field but there should be more of a focus on beating the other sides in the HC rather than focussing on the Celtic's clubs perceived dominance.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

beshocked wrote:Which bit? Most improved in the Pro12? Decent attendances?

If Connacht make Top 6 in the Pro12 at the end of next season, I will write an article praising their efforts. Or alternatively if they make the HC quarter finals.

They are improving each year and are building a good fan base.

Fair enough. I suppose it's all relative.

beshocked wrote:Jenifer I don't agree with the whole Celtic sides are fresher argument except possibly for Leinster but they are the best side in Europe so is it really down to being fresher?

Edinburgh piled all their eggs into the HC basket because they could but the likes of London Irish,Toulouse and Racing Metro should have done better.

Of course it's about the money but it's also about 11 out of 12 Pro12 clubs being in the HC too.

It's not exactly a level playing field but there should be more of a focus on beating the other sides in the HC rather than focussing on the Celtic's clubs perceived dominance.

So what you're saying is it's ok to have 10 clubs (not 11) as long as we take our beatings like good little lads, but if we start kicking your ass (and getting an extra team in cause we win the HC) then you're taking your ball and going home?

And by the way, don't get me wrong, I do see how AP teams would be pi$$ed off at Embra getting so far in the HC and getting back in to it the following year despite finishing so low.

If I ruled the world I would give Ireland Wales Scotland and Italy 1 place each (cause it is about unions and not leagues) and let the rest be decided by Rabo placings. Ideally 8 Rabo 8 English 8 French with some kind of way in for the winners of the two comps.

Or if we have to go to 20 teams then we really need to make the Amlin more meaningful.

On beshocked behalf, maybe he's sort of suggesting that Connacht have never actually qualified for the HEC.

Portnoy wrote:On beshocked behalf, maybe he's sort of suggesting that Connacht have never actually qualified for the HEC.

If an English team had won the HC they would have brought another team in that would "not have qualified" either.

It's just that the rule did not exist the last time an English team won that makes it so hard for youse lads to get yisser heads around.

That's not true, there have been a number of 7th English and French sides. But feel free to ask me whether I feel it's right.

No. Don't bother - the answer's no.

Portnoy wrote:That's not true, there have been a number of 7th English and French sides. But feel free to ask me whether I feel it's right.

No. Don't bother - the answer's no.

Fair enough. Can't argue with that.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:If I ruled the world I would give Ireland Wales Scotland and Italy 1 place each (cause it is about unions and not leagues) and let the rest be decided by Rabo placings. Ideally 8 Rabo 8 English 8 French with some kind of way in for the winners of the two comps.

Or if we have to go to 20 teams then we really need to make the Amlin more meaningful.

I would like to see this, with ONLY the winners getting in. Not another team from their country/league

They should only let the winner s of the HC in.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

beshocked wrote:Evidently the Irish independent has never heard of a certain Irish region.

7 wins, 1 draw, 14 losses in the Pro12 in the 2011-12

Equivalent of 10th in the AP 2011-12 Worcester.

Win 8 out of 28 games in the Pro12 and HC and you can qualify. Bravo.

What is your issue with connacht? Why do you keep bringing them up?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/16635907

Bloody Homer was playing that day.

It says a lot about were English club rugby has been for the last few seasons that they now resort to pointing out that Connacht arent that good.

tehehe snigger.

They? You mean beshocked? Is he our official spokesman now? I wasn't asked to vote

Neil Francis is such a WUM. Not quite as bad as Stephen Jones - who is a WC eejit. At least Francis does make some salient points.

I really admire Exeter and respect them for what they have achieved, in such a short space of time. As do all Leinster fans.

They are building on solid foundations and I think the Jeff should be well proud of them. Cant wait for our HC meetups. And mixing with their fans. They will be a threat (like Connacht) if they are not taken uber seriously. Believe me, Schmidt will treat them like ASM.

This is how we see Franno.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8o9KyFxppY

when I was looking at that Gibbo, I saw this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNUzmANXvf8

for those overseas. this is the man himself being happy and charming. (for him)

Gibson wrote:Neil Francis is such a WUM. Not quite as bad as Stephen Jones - who is a WC eejit. At least Francis does make some salient points.

I really admire Exeter and respect them for what they have achieved, in such a short space of time. As do all Leinster fans.

They are building on solid foundations and I think the Jeff should be well proud of them. Cant wait for our HC meetups. And mixing with their fans. They will be a threat (like Connacht) if they are not taken uber seriously. Believe me, Schmidt will treat them like ASM.

This is how we see Franno.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8o9KyFxppY

Well said Gibson

I am sure you are speaking for many of us there who deeply respect Exeter and their achievements. Likewise Connacht who are a dog of a team to beat and prove a worthier challenge every year.

Gibson wrote:Neil Francis is such a WUM. Not quite as bad as Stephen Jones - who is a WC eejit. At least Francis does make some salient points.

I really admire Exeter and respect them for what they have achieved, in such a short space of time. As do all Leinster fans.

They are building on solid foundations and I think the Jeff should be well proud of them. Cant wait for our HC meetups. And mixing with their fans. They will be a threat (like Connacht) if they are not taken uber seriously. Believe me, Schmidt will treat them like ASM.

This is how we see Franno.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8o9KyFxppY

They are great craic, you will have a blast. Paddys Day party game year before last when we played them was epic.

Yeah I saw that just now too Jen.

Sexton can be a little bollix sometimes. Love im.

I think Franno's on-the-fence answer was spot on though. I couldn't separate them for Leinster, or for Ireland. Both brilliant and brought different attributes to bear. Those 2 in the same side, its a wonder we don't have 5 x Heinos. Seriously. Shame we had no pack back then.

“I’ve always been a Leinster player. My dad played for Leinster, my uncle played for Leinster, my cousin played for Leinster. I’m a Leinster lad. I don’t make any apologies for it. That’s my team" (c) Hickie

Sorry (not really) but I just have to do this. I was at the game. Unreal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzW5KlXF5d8

And this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW7HgpvlLFs

It'd be good if someone slapped up the link that the OP referred to.

From those two previous posts, it doesn't look like he'd be the ideal RWC anchor for the UK.

the link is IN the OP yah mad yoke!

Ah jayzuz Jen, why'd ya go and spoil de fun, huh?

Ergh! Someone left a floater. I stopped reading wiv me finger when I was five.

beshocked wrote:Jenifer I don't agree with the whole Celtic sides are fresher argument except possibly for Leinster but they are the best side in Europe so is it really down to being fresher?

No their not the Ospreys beat them 3 times last season and twice in Dublin.

Well. I must admit that he's got a point.

Unfortunately a skewed and bised one but a point.

He'd probably summon up all his eloquent blarney to dismiss Leinster's recent forays into England with his 'If Leinster had left their contingent in New Zealand for the whole summer playing the All Blacks three times a week and went home in an air ambulance to face Exeter, they would still put 50 points on them'-type bollix as 'Sure we wuz just practicin' ' or similar. No Neil. Your team was taken apart because Leinster are not as good and deeply endowed as you think you are. But then it's the English who are the arrogant tw@ts - aren't they?

Shifty wrote:

beshocked wrote:Jenifer I don't agree with the whole Celtic sides are fresher argument except possibly for Leinster but they are the best side in Europe so is it really down to being fresher?

No their not the Ospreys beat them 3 times last season and twice in Dublin.

all the more impressive when you consider that we only lost 4 games last Season in all comps . 75% of our losses were to the ospreys . And 50% of our losses were by a single point at the end of a game we had led all the way through.

Portnoy wrote:Well. I must admit that he's got a point.

Unfortunately a skewed and bised one but a point.

Several in fact.

Portnoy wrote:
He'd probably summon up all his eloquent blarney to dismiss Leinster's recent forays into England with his 'If Leinster had left their contingent in New Zealand for the whole summer playing the All Blacks three times a week and went home in an air ambulance to face Exeter, they would still put 50 points on them'-type bollix as 'Sure we wuz just practicin' ' or similar. No Neil. Your team was taken apart because Leinster are not as good and deeply endowed as you think you are.

That's just pure Jeremy Clarkson on Franno's part. Shows a lack of class.
Which forays are you referring to by the way. Leicester gave us a few hidings many years ago, but we have a won 18 drew 1 lost 6 record against English teams.
From Memory the draw was London Irish in Twickers Jan 10. Losses were LI in the RDS Sept 09 (we have never beaten them) Wasps in Twickers Jan 09. Leicester in Welford rd in Jan 08 Bath in Lansdowne in 05. Leicester in the QF in Lansdowne rd in 04 or 5. and an even earlier one v Leicester.

The Leicester one in Lansdowne was "taken apart", but that was about 8 years ago.

Portnoy wrote:But then it's the English who are the arrogant tw@ts - aren't they?

Of course. You got an A1 in honours arrogance in Oxford or somewhere.

In Franno's defence, he can take a slagging (and he gets them fairly regularly) He doesn't take himself too seriously. (nor does anyone else)

He was a gifted but lazy player for Leinster and Ireland, not sure he has hit those highs as a journo

You'll love this Portnoy.

A Leinster team containing Franno himself (and World class ref Alain Rolland) getting beaten by a Leicester team containing Martin Johnson, Graham Rowntree and Dick Cockbreath.

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchcentre/17246.php

Also a sky pundit per side Greenwood and Wallace.

I think we are the only ones with a Ryanair pilot though

Actually. That game got me thinking. We also lost to Wasps in the QF in 07. That is the 6th game. So those Stats on the ERC site only go back so far. Obviously does not include the game in the previous post.

Hmmm. Must check that out. Note to self.