Amir Khan, a five-weight champ?

http://www.boxingscene.com/de-la-hoya-amir-khan-five-division-champion--38149

Yes, he's his promoter and yes, he has to talk him up, but does he really believe this?

Yes, multiple weights are easier these days if you can grab yourself an alphabet, but five divisions is a huge challenge. I can't see Khan at middle, definitely not super-, so he'd have to move down, scary territory with guys like Gamboa and JuanMa milling about. Khan's chin at the lighter weights wouldn't stand up to the punishment those guys would dish out.

However, 3 weights is feasible. Welterweight is a ghost town these days, and Matthew Hatton is fighting for belts at light-middle.

How far do you guys think Khan can go moving weights? Roach is the man to be with if he wants to.

Discuss!

If Khan achieves this he will be the greatest British boxer of all time, but it is a very long way to go.

I also hear he wanted to be five weight unified champion hes got high hopes! and I think he can win belts at welter,light middle and middle and then he should retire,super middleweight maybe a step too far.

I can see WW and JMW and maybe even MW but SMW seems a bit far-fetched.

D4thincarnation wrote:If Khan achieves this he will be the greatest British boxer of all time, but it is a very long way to go.

Nope.

Still Wilde, Fitzsimmons and Lewis ahead of him.

He'd make top 5.

oxring wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:If Khan achieves this he will be the greatest British boxer of all time, but it is a very long way to go.

Nope.

Still Wilde, Fitzsimmons and Lewis ahead of him.

He'd make top 5.

So if Khan moves up 4 times wining titles at welter, light middle, middle and super middle, he still would not be top of the tree.

IMO that would outstrip Fitz, Lewis and Wilde's achievements.

There's 8 "titles" available to win now.

Fitz was THE man at MW, LHW, HW.

Lewis successful from FW to LHW - and competing at HW across 20 years.

Wilde undefeated in countless fights - fighting men about a stone bigger, knocking out 100 men AT LEAST (ie probably more - boxrec inaccurate for early fights).

Beating a guy who got starched by Breidis Prescott, won a weak LWW title moving up (very hypothetical) to snatch 5 alphabelts.

so lewis never got floored by a lesser opponent then did he?

eddyfightfan wrote:so lewis never got floored by a lesser opponent then did he?

oxy was referring to Ted ' Kid ' Lewis, eddy.

No chance, 3 at most.

Yeah, sorry I forgot about the heavyweight.

For the record - its Ted "kid" Lewis. Along with Bob Fitzsimmons and Jimmy Wilde

Surely the debate of where Khan would be in terms of 'Top 5' or 'Top 3' etc should be left until the end of his career when we see who he's fought and beaten?

Let's face it; the chances of Khan becoming a 'legit' champ at three weights is about his limit, given his frame. To entertain the idea he could become a five-weight champion means either he drops to lightweight or has to go to super middle. Even if he drops, then works back up to middleweight, can anyone really envisage Khan having any success against the Kelly Pavliks, Arthur Abraham, or even Froch, Ward, Kessler types? Too big, too tough and too strong. Even the guys like Groves and Degale would only have to land a few and it'd be game over.

Three weights at, 4 if he gets a MW paper belt.

Can't see him moving down to LW so to be a 5 weight champion it would need to be SMW. Can't see it unless he gets a shot at a paper title against an old man or a blown up fighter from a lower weight which would mean very little so would be pointless.

With all the multiple titles and alphabet belts, its alot easier to become a muti weight champion now than it was in the past.

Many boxers can move around different divisions, cherry-picking the easiest title holders, winning paper belts and then claiming to be a champion in 3/4/5 different weight classes.

As others have pointed out, there is a significant different in holding a belt in a division, or being recognized as the unified No.1 champ in a division.
If Khan is able to do the latter, it would certainly be an impressive achievement.

With Khan's physical advantages (such as height), I can see him moving up to WW and beyond in the next few years. But I can't imagine him being effective at anything over JMW. Perhaps MW at a push.

The problem is the term 'world champ' holds no where near as much weight anymore.

Khan could be a 5 weight world champ and apart from his current division not fight a single fighter ranked in the top 5 of that division!

On paper he would be a 5 weight champ but not one with great substance.

He might beat all comers though but very much doubt 5 weights, especially as by his own words he only has about 4 years left so doubt he clean up a new division every year until he retires!

Sorry J.Benson, your post wasn't up before i wrote mine and skipped to review your post where you say some similar things.

Recall a debate last year on the subject of how far he can move up divisions.
I suggested SM but nobody else thought he could move up that high.
On the one hand ,you have a Nigel Benn who was only 5 foot 8 or 9, and Lacey is a bit short too..height not so much the issue...as for Khan's frame,he has good upper body strength, but perhaps not the tree-trunk legs that would hold him in good stead.
I would concur that middleweight seems about his peak.However, I can easily envisage him at this weight.

He may well win an alphabet belt above welter, but only if the divisions continue to be utterly dire.

I think his chin lets him down at the higher weights. But Yes with clever matchmaking he could win belts at higher weights. You have fighters like M'Baye and Senchenko holding paper titles at Welterweight.

http://www.boxingscene.com/de-la-hoya-khan-greatest-british-boxer-ever--38228


Seems like Oscar agrees with me, that Khan could very well be the greatest British boxer ever.

D4thincarnation wrote:http://www.boxingscene.com/de-la-hoya-khan-greatest-british-boxer-ever--38228


Seems like Oscar agrees with me, that Khan could very well be the greatest British boxer ever.

DLH is obviously blindly ignorant, like you, that he doesn't appreciate the history of the sport. Because Khan will not got anywhere near Jimmy Wilde.

FOOL

Khan couldn't even trouble a fighter who in his word is "European Level"

What hope does he have against World Class fighters in different divisions.

Bradley eats and 5 hits him, Bradley would have got McCloskey out in 3 rounds.

coxy0001 wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:http://www.boxingscene.com/de-la-hoya-khan-greatest-british-boxer-ever--38228


Seems like Oscar agrees with me, that Khan could very well be the greatest British boxer ever.

DLH is obviously blindly ignorant, like you, that he doesn't appreciate the history of the sport. Because Khan will not got anywhere near Jimmy Wilde.

FOOL

If Khan becomes a 5 weight world champion then he will be.

And?

DLH was a 6 weight champ. Does he rate higher than Wilde in your eyes?

Again, I disagree with your opinions.

coxy0001 wrote:And?

DLH was a 6 weight champ. Does he rate higher than Wilde in your eyes?

Again, you're a FOOL

He beat some great fighters Oscar did 10 time world champion, yeah I would rate him higher.

And there we have it.

DLH greater than Wilde?

Give me a break. ESPN have Wilde @ 15, DLH @ 39.

Just showing yourself up now.

In fairness to d4 - he has held up Pancho Villa's beating of a very very old, and inactive Wilde as proof Wilde wasn't all that.

Surprising really. Its not like d4 to rate victories over once-great now-old-men highly is it really?

coxy0001 wrote:And there we have it.

DLH greater than Wilde?

Give me a break. ESPN have Wilde @ 15, DLH @ 39.

Just showing yourself up now.

What happened to Yahoo coxy, isn't that where you got your boxing info from.

"Oscar De La Hoya said that he felt so weak and helpless during last December's stoppage loss to Manny Pacquiao that during the seventh round he was hoping for the Filipino fighter to land a knockout blow. What's even more telling is De La Hoya's claim that Pacquiao is not a heavy hitter, at least not at their agreed upon weight of 147-pounds. Much of Pacquiao's steam as he rides into the May 2 showdown with Ricky Hatton, is the pounding he gave to De La Hoya. Two fights prior to the De La Hoya win, Pacquiao was barely able to get past Juan Manuel Marquez in a rematch that was held at 130-pounds. “I felt like my hands were tied behind my back. That’s where I thought, ‘Go ahead (Manny) and land something strong and hard right on the button so you can knock me out and take me out of my misery.’ That’s how I felt at the moment,” De La Hoya said to The Ring Online. "I just didn’t care. I didn’t care if he was hitting me because I couldn’t do anything about it. Luckily he doesn’t hit hard. Obviously, if he would’ve hit hard, he would have knocked me out with no problem.” De La Hoya told The Ring that he hurt Pacquiao in the very first round, but had no energy to follow up with any additional punches. He says Pacquiao was wide open for some of hsi punches but he couldn't pull the trigger. "Once the (opening) bell rang, I believe I threw a left hook to his body," De La Hoya said. "He made a noise like it really hurt. After that, he was wide open, he was there for me and I didn’t do anything. Right there it started feeling like, 'Wow, this doesn’t feel the same. I don’t feel like myself.' And obviously, when he started landing punches at will, something in my mind happened as if I said to myself, 'You know what? It’s just not going to happen.' I felt as if he could just land anything and I couldn’t do anything about it."

Oscar's word is clearly gospel.

Taken from http://www.boxnews.com.ua/en/news/4959/2009-02-22/Oscar-De-La-Hoya-Says-Pacquiao-Doesnt-Hit-Hard

Khan won't ever be a legit five-weight champ.

D4

Isn't it funny that you post all these articles which "back up your opinion", yet when it doesn't suit your pathetic arguements they're not valid?

Suggest you retract your comment, because you're just making yourself look a complete special with the whole DLH > Wilde

Saying that everyone here is used to you making yourself look like one

BALTIMORA wrote:"Oscar De La Hoya said that he felt so weak and helpless during last December's stoppage loss to Manny Pacquiao that during the seventh round he was hoping for the Filipino fighter to land a knockout blow. What's even more telling is De La Hoya's claim that Pacquiao is not a heavy hitter, at least not at their agreed upon weight of 147-pounds. Much of Pacquiao's steam as he rides into the May 2 showdown with Ricky Hatton, is the pounding he gave to De La Hoya. Two fights prior to the De La Hoya win, Pacquiao was barely able to get past Juan Manuel Marquez in a rematch that was held at 130-pounds. “I felt like my hands were tied behind my back. That’s where I thought, ‘Go ahead (Manny) and land something strong and hard right on the button so you can knock me out and take me out of my misery.’ That’s how I felt at the moment,” De La Hoya said to The Ring Online. "I just didn’t care. I didn’t care if he was hitting me because I couldn’t do anything about it. Luckily he doesn’t hit hard. Obviously, if he would’ve hit hard, he would have knocked me out with no problem.” De La Hoya told The Ring that he hurt Pacquiao in the very first round, but had no energy to follow up with any additional punches. He says Pacquiao was wide open for some of hsi punches but he couldn't pull the trigger. "Once the (opening) bell rang, I believe I threw a left hook to his body," De La Hoya said. "He made a noise like it really hurt. After that, he was wide open, he was there for me and I didn’t do anything. Right there it started feeling like, 'Wow, this doesn’t feel the same. I don’t feel like myself.' And obviously, when he started landing punches at will, something in my mind happened as if I said to myself, 'You know what? It’s just not going to happen.' I felt as if he could just land anything and I couldn’t do anything about it."

Oscar's word is clearly gospel.

Taken from http://www.boxnews.com.ua/en/news/4959/2009-02-22/Oscar-De-La-Hoya-Says-Pacquiao-Doesnt-Hit-Hard

Khan won't ever be a legit five-weight champ.

Cheers Balti!

I had, previously, thought that Pacquiao DID hit hard - but thanks to that article AND d4's acceptance of Oscar's opinions as gospel - I should now revise that and will advise all right-thinking fans to do the same.

I take it you agree, d4?

oxring wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:"Oscar De La Hoya said that he felt so weak and helpless during last December's stoppage loss to Manny Pacquiao that during the seventh round he was hoping for the Filipino fighter to land a knockout blow. What's even more telling is De La Hoya's claim that Pacquiao is not a heavy hitter, at least not at their agreed upon weight of 147-pounds. Much of Pacquiao's steam as he rides into the May 2 showdown with Ricky Hatton, is the pounding he gave to De La Hoya. Two fights prior to the De La Hoya win, Pacquiao was barely able to get past Juan Manuel Marquez in a rematch that was held at 130-pounds. “I felt like my hands were tied behind my back. That’s where I thought, ‘Go ahead (Manny) and land something strong and hard right on the button so you can knock me out and take me out of my misery.’ That’s how I felt at the moment,” De La Hoya said to The Ring Online. "I just didn’t care. I didn’t care if he was hitting me because I couldn’t do anything about it. Luckily he doesn’t hit hard. Obviously, if he would’ve hit hard, he would have knocked me out with no problem.” De La Hoya told The Ring that he hurt Pacquiao in the very first round, but had no energy to follow up with any additional punches. He says Pacquiao was wide open for some of hsi punches but he couldn't pull the trigger. "Once the (opening) bell rang, I believe I threw a left hook to his body," De La Hoya said. "He made a noise like it really hurt. After that, he was wide open, he was there for me and I didn’t do anything. Right there it started feeling like, 'Wow, this doesn’t feel the same. I don’t feel like myself.' And obviously, when he started landing punches at will, something in my mind happened as if I said to myself, 'You know what? It’s just not going to happen.' I felt as if he could just land anything and I couldn’t do anything about it."

Oscar's word is clearly gospel.

Taken from http://www.boxnews.com.ua/en/news/4959/2009-02-22/Oscar-De-La-Hoya-Says-Pacquiao-Doesnt-Hit-Hard

Khan won't ever be a legit five-weight champ.

Cheers Balti!

I had, previously, thought that Pacquiao DID hit hard - but thanks to that article AND d4's acceptance of Oscar's opinions as gospel - I should now revise that and will advise all right-thinking fans to do the same.

I take it you agree, d4?

When have I said Oscar words are gospel, and you know I made this claim about Khan before Oscar. If Khan does become a 5 weight world champ then he should be regarded as the greatest british boxer ever.

Oscar is very underrated.

My pleasure, oxring. I refuse to be drawn into the usual tiresome debate which is threatening to arise, but I do strongly feel that Oscar's word should be taken with a huge pinch of salt as he most often has an ulterior motive for the things he says. I can't blame him; he's a promoter, and it's his job, but his word, when taken out of context, can be immensely misleading.

Henry Armstrong
Sugar Ray Robinson
Muhammad Ali
Willie Pep
Joe Louis
Sugar Ray Leonard
Joe Gans
Roberto Duran
Sam Langford
Benny Leonard
Jack Johnson
Harry Greb
Jack Dempsey
Barney Ross
Rocky Marciano
Jimmy Wilde
Gene Tunney
Mickey Walker
Ezzard Charles

Rough top 20 in no particular order, who would you rate DLH ahead on that list? You wouldn't, unless you're an idiot.

Having him @ 39 is too high, when you think he's ahead of guys like Monzon etc

Ah d4, so we are now taking Oscar's words with a touch more caution.

Barry Hearn once called Scott Belshaw (remember him? Probably not, stopped in 1or2 by Fury) the second coming of George Foreman.

Someone described Mike "the rebel" Perez as Tyson 2.

Just because Oscar said Khan could be the best ever, doesn't make it true.

All I will give you - is that if Khan DOES win over 5 weight classes - he'll be the greatest British boxer...in a while.

coxy0001 wrote:Henry Armstrong
Sugar Ray Robinson
Muhammad Ali
Willie Pep
Joe Louis
Sugar Ray Leonard
Joe Gans
Roberto Duran
Sam Langford
Benny Leonard
Jack Johnson
Harry Greb
Jack Dempsey
Barney Ross
Rocky Marciano
Jimmy Wilde
Gene Tunney
Mickey Walker
Ezzard Charles

Rough top 20 in no particular order, who would you rate DLH ahead on that list? You wouldn't, unless you're an idiot.

Having him @ 39 is too high, when you think he's ahead of guys like Monzon etc

I wouldn't have Wilde that high.

oxring wrote:Ah d4, so we are now taking Oscar's words with a touch more caution.

Barry Hearn once called Scott Belshaw (remember him? Probably not, stopped in 1or2 by Fury) the second coming of George Foreman.

Someone described Mike "the rebel" Perez as Tyson 2.

Just because Oscar said Khan could be the best ever, doesn't make it true.

All I will give you - is that if Khan DOES win over 5 weight classes - he'll be the greatest British boxer...in a while.

I was saying Oscar is agreeing with me, not the other way around. And if Khan does become a 5 weight world champ he should be.

He is one fight away from being the undisputed champ of the division, if he continues with that mentality and winning I don't see how he can not be.

All largely academic because even in these days of fragmented belts the chances of Khan becoming a five weight world champion are about as high as my chances of winning the 100 metres at next years Olympics

D4thincarnation wrote:I wouldn't have Wilde that high.

Sometimes you can be inciteful and come up with good and controversial ideas.

This is not one of those times.

A man who only lost 4 times (on record), fought over 300 times, KOd 100 men, undisputed world champ, 1 of the losses he was cheated and outweighed by a stone, the other loss was as an old man (and could have been a DQ win anyway - as he was knocked down (and pretty much out) clearly after the bell).

Clearly overrated. Compared with the majestic Oscar, who lost to everyone good he fought (pretty much). Even when he ducked Margarito to fight a blown up lightweight he had his bum handed to him.

If he established hismelf as the man at 5 weights then yes, it would be pretty hard to argue with him being the best ever Brit. But it has to be one of the most hypothetical not to mention implausible scenarios debated.

Key word in all of this is IF. IF Amir Khan can become a WORLD CHAMPION in the true sense of the word-as opposed to merely holding a belt won from a weak opponent or a vacancy, and not defending it, he would undoubtedly be ranked highly indeed. The entire debate is largely moot though, as the chances of Khan going as high as 168 and being dominant there are about as high as him growing a pair of wings out of his bottom.

manos de piedra wrote:If he established hismelf as the man at 5 weights then yes, it would be pretty hard to argue with him being the best ever Brit. But it has to be one of the most hypothetical not to mention implausible scenarios debated.

Yes whether he will do it or not is a different matter. And if Khan were to go about it in the same way he has tackled light-welter then, he will be IMO.

oxring wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:I wouldn't have Wilde that high.

Sometimes you can be inciteful and come up with good and controversial ideas.

This is not one of those times.

A man who only lost 4 times (on record), fought over 300 times, KOd 100 men, undisputed world champ, 1 of the losses he was cheated and outweighed by a stone, the other loss was as an old man (and could have been a DQ win anyway - as he was knocked down (and pretty much out) clearly after the bell).

Clearly overrated. Compared with the majestic Oscar, who lost to everyone good he fought (pretty much). Even when he ducked Margarito to fight a blown up lightweight he had his bum handed to him.

Whatever else about Oscar he clearly wasnt a ducker. He has faced the most impressive list of competition of any fighter in the last 20 years for me by some margin.

D4thincarnation wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:If he established hismelf as the man at 5 weights then yes, it would be pretty hard to argue with him being the best ever Brit. But it has to be one of the most hypothetical not to mention implausible scenarios debated.

Yes whether he will do it or not is a different matter. And if Khan were to go about it in the same way he has tackled light-welter then, he will be IMO.

Based on what? I know you rate him retardedly high p4p wise but even with that theres no way of knowing who will be around in ten years at SMW or so.

He doesnt have a good enough defence or chin to weight hop to MW or SMW for me. Even someone like Glen Johnson would be too hot to handle for him if you ask me. Hes too vunerable to power and pressure.

Credit to him for going about cleaning up LWW but it doesnt automatically mean he will win. Nostradamus didnt look as far into the future as you are.

manos de piedra wrote:

oxring wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:I wouldn't have Wilde that high.

Sometimes you can be inciteful and come up with good and controversial ideas.

This is not one of those times.

A man who only lost 4 times (on record), fought over 300 times, KOd 100 men, undisputed world champ, 1 of the losses he was cheated and outweighed by a stone, the other loss was as an old man (and could have been a DQ win anyway - as he was knocked down (and pretty much out) clearly after the bell).

Clearly overrated. Compared with the majestic Oscar, who lost to everyone good he fought (pretty much). Even when he ducked Margarito to fight a blown up lightweight he had his bum handed to him.

Whatever else about Oscar he clearly wasnt a ducker. He has faced the most impressive list of competition of any fighter in the last 20 years for me by some margin.

Agreed - but he lost to them all! Surely that doesn't help ones rating?

Why are people biting? D4 is telling us all (more or less) that Khan WILL win world titles at five weights, and WILL be Britain's greatest ever fighter, and that we HAVE to regard him as such based on probability, because he trains with Pacquiao, his idol. We know he's talking cobblers, he knows it too.

oxring wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

oxring wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:I wouldn't have Wilde that high.

Sometimes you can be inciteful and come up with good and controversial ideas.

This is not one of those times.

A man who only lost 4 times (on record), fought over 300 times, KOd 100 men, undisputed world champ, 1 of the losses he was cheated and outweighed by a stone, the other loss was as an old man (and could have been a DQ win anyway - as he was knocked down (and pretty much out) clearly after the bell).

Clearly overrated. Compared with the majestic Oscar, who lost to everyone good he fought (pretty much). Even when he ducked Margarito to fight a blown up lightweight he had his bum handed to him.

Whatever else about Oscar he clearly wasnt a ducker. He has faced the most impressive list of competition of any fighter in the last 20 years for me by some margin.

Agreed - but he lost to them all! Surely that doesn't help ones rating?

I always have a soft spot for Oscar becuase aside from Hopkins which was a bridge too far, and Pacquiao where he was clearly a shell, his other losses were so close. In short I think he was kind of unlucky. 2 close losses to Mosely - at least one of which was aided through steroids. And a loss to Trinidad who I think he had the beating of and was better than but threw it away and never had the chance to avenge.

When you consider what he did for the sport and his willingness to always take on the big fights and challenges I hold him in very high esteem. The margins are so fine with his him. Had he got the nods in the Mosely/Trinidad fights we would be talking about him up there with Leonard and Duran probably.

Even when you account for his losses the rest of his record is pretty stellar aswell - Mayorga, Sturm, Campos, Vargas, Gatti, Quartey, JCC, Camacho, Whitaker, Ruelas etc is still pretty stellar!