Aviva Premieship Round 3 - Preview and Discussion

TABLE


Friday 14th September

Bath Rugby (4,4) v Northampton Saints (4,5) - 19:45 ESPN
Preview

Bath Team News:
Bath make two changes, Ben williams for the Injured Banahan and Paul James in for Nathan Catt.

15. Nick Abendanon, 14. Kyle Eastmond, 13. Dan Hipkiss, 12. Ben Williams, 11. Tom Biggs, 10. Olly Barkley, 9. Michael Claassens
1. Paul James, 2. Lee Mears, 3. David Wilson, 4. Stuart Hooper (c), 5. Dominic Day, 6. Simon Taylor, 7. Carl Fearns, 8. Ben Skirving

16. Ross Batty, 17. Nathan Catt, 18. Anthony Perenise, 19. Dave Attwood, 20. Josh Ovens, 21. Mark McMillan, 22. Ollie Devoto, 23. Jack Cuthbert


Saints Team News:
A few enforced changes for Saints - Burrell starts for the injured Pisi, tom Mercey is chosen ahead of PDJ to deputise for the Mooj. Finally Rhys Oakley stands in for the suspended van Velze. In the backs Myler chosen ahead of Lamb. Nice to see Lawes making an appearance on the Saints bench.

15 Ben FODEN, 14 Ken PISI, 13 Dom WALDOUCK ,12 Luther BURRELL ,11 Vasily ARTEMYEV ,10 Stephen MYLER ,9 Lee DICKSON ,
1 Soane TONGA'UIHA ,2 Dylan HARTLEY (capt) ,3 Tom MERCEY ,4 Samu MANOA ,5 Christian DAY ,6 Phil DOWSON ,7 Tom WOOD ,8 Rhys OAKLEY

16 Mike HAYWOOD 17 Alex WALLER 18 Paul DORAN JONES 19 Mark SORENSON 20 Courtney LAWES 21 Martin ROBERTS 22 Ryan LAMB 23 Tom MAY



Saturday 15th September

Worcester Warriors (1,0) v Gloucester Rugby (1,4) 13:30 ESPN
Preview

Worcester:
Warriors make changes on the wing, centre and back row with Walker, Carlisle and Kvesic coming in.
15 Chris Pennell, 14 Nikki Walker, 13 Alex Grove, 12 Joe Carlisle, 11 David Lemi, 10 Andy Goode, 9 Shaun Perry
1 Matt Mullan, 2 Aleki Lutui, 3 John Andress, 4 James Percival, 5 Dean Schofield (c), 6 Chris Jones, 7 Sam Betty, 8 Matt Kvesic

16 Ollie Hayes, 17 Ceri Jones, 18 James Currie, 19 Craig Gillies, 20 Semisi Taulava, 21 Jonny Arr, 22 Josh Matavesi, 23 Josh Drauniniu


Gloucester:
36 switches to 10 while Tindall returns in the 12 shirt.
Jonny May; Shane Monahan, Henry Trinder, Mike Tindall, James Simpson-Daniel; Billy Twelvetrees, Dan Robson;
Nick Wood, Huia Edmonds, Rupert Harden; Will James, Jim Hamilton (capt); Tom Savage, Andy Hazell, Ben Morgan

Darren Dawidiuk, Dan Murphy, Shaun Knight, Sione Kalamafoni, Akapusi Qera, Dave Lewis, Freddie Burns, Rob Cook




Harlequins (5,5) v Sale Sharks (0,1) – 15:00
Preview

Quins:
Care switches with Dickson, while Easter is back at 8 seeing Guest moving to 6. Clegg replaces Botica on the bench.

15 Mike Brown, 14 Tom Williams, 13 George Lowe, 12 Jordan Turner-Hall, 11 Ugo Monye, 10 Nick Evans, 9 Danny Care
1 Joe Marler, 2 Joe Gray, 3 James Johnston, 4 Charlie Matthews, 5 George Robson, 6 Tom Guest, 7 Chris Robshaw (C), 8 Nick Easter

16 Rob Buchanan, 17 Darryl Marfo, 18 Will Collier, 19 Peter Browne, 20 Maurie Fa'asavalu, 21 Karl Dickson, 22 Rory Clegg, 23 Matt Hopper


Sale:
cueto back into the Sales strarting XV

15.Rob Miller, 14.Tom Brady, 13.Johnny Leota, 12.Sam Tuitupou, 11.Mark Cueto , 10.Danny Cipriani, 9.Dwayne Peel ,
1.Eifion Lewis-Roberts, 2.Joe Ward, 3.Vadim Cobilas, 4.Richie Gray, 5.Kearnan Myall, 6.James Gaskell , 7.David Seymour (capt.), 8.Richie Vernon

16.Tommy Taylor, 17.Alasdair Dickinson, 18.Henry Thomas, 19.Fraser McKenzie, 20.Mark Easter, 21.Will Cliff, 22.Nick Macleod, 23.Mark Jennings




London Wasps (1,1) v London Irish (0,0) – 15:00
Preview

Wasps:
Masi returns for Wasps in the centre, while Stephen Jones makes his AP debut. Lindsay, Haskell and Vunipola move to the bench with thomas, Palmer and Johnson starting. Launchberry moves to 6.

1 Tim Payne, 2 T Rhys Thomas, 3 Fabio Staibano, 4 Tom Palmer, 5 Marco Wentzel, 6 Joe Launchbury, 7 Jonathan Poff, 8 Ashley Johnson
9 Joe Simpson, 10 Stephen Jones ,11 Christian Wade ,12 Andrea Masi, 13 Elliot Daly, 14 Tom Varndell, 15 Hugo Southwell (c)

16 Tom Lindsay, 17 Simon McIntyre, , 18 Zak Taulafo, 19 James Haskell, 20 Billy Vunipola, 21 Charlie Davies, 22 Nick Robinson, 23 Tommy Bell


London Irish:

15. Tom Homer; 14. Topsy Ojo*13. Jonathan Joseph*; 12. Sailosi Tagicakibau*; 11. Marland Yarde 10. Steve Shingler; 9. Tomás O’Leary*; 1. Max Lahiff; 2. Scott Lawson*; 3. Leo Halavatau; 4. George Skivington; 5. Bryn Evans*; 6. Declan Danaher (Captain); 7. Ofisa Treviranus*; 8. Jon Fisher

16. Brian Blaney; 17. Halani Aulika*; 18. John Ryan; 19. Kieran Low; 20. Alex Gray; 21. Anthony Watson; 22. Shane Geraghty*; 23. Jack Moates



Saracens (5,4) v Leicester Tigers (5,5) – 15:30 SKY
Preview

Saracens Team News:
A fair few changes for Sarries - Carlos Nieto, Jackson Wray, Neil de Kock, Owen Farrell and James Short recalled to the starting line-up, with Petrus du Plessis, Will Fraser, Richard Wigglesworth, Charlie Hodgson and Chris Wyles switching to the replacement's bench.

15 Alex Goode,
14 Chris Ashton, 13 Joel Tomkins, 12 Brad Barritt, 11 James Short, 10 Owen Farrell, 9 Neil de Kock,
1 Mako Vunipola, 2 Schalk Brits, 3 Carlos Nieto, 4 Steve Borthwick (c), 5 Mouritz Botha, 6 Kelly Brown, 7 Jackson Wray, 8 Ernst Joubert

16 John Smit, 17 Rhys Gill, 18 Petrus du Plessis, 19 Alistair Hargreaves, 20 Will Fraser, 21 Richard Wigglesworth, 22 Charlie Hodgson, 23 Chris Wyles


Tigers Team News:
Tigers, bringing in Cole for Castro and Logo for Stanko. Final change on the bench sees Chuter replacing Hawkins.

15 Geordan Murphy (c), 14 Scott Hamilton, 13 Manusamoa Tuilagi, 12 Anthony Allen, 11 Vereniki Goneva, 10 Toby Flood, 9 Sam Harrison
1 Logovi'i Mulipola, 2 Tom Youngs, 3 Dan Cole, 4 Graham Kitchener, 5 Geoff Parling, 6 Steve Mafi, 7 Julian Salvi, 8 Thomas Waldrom

16 George Chuter, 17 Boris Stankovich, 18 Martin Castrogiovanni, 19 Rob Andrew, 20 Jordan Crane, 21 Patrick Phibbs, 22 George Ford, 23 Matt Smiths swap prop




Sunday 16th September

London Welsh (0,0) v Exeter Chiefs (5,1) - 15:00
Preview

Exeter Chiefs:
Some reshuffling of the backs I understand.
15 Luke Arscott, 14 Ian Whitten, 13 Sireli Naqelevuki, 12 Phil Dollman, 11 Matt Jess, 10 Ignacio Mieres, 9 Will Chudley
1 Brett Sturgess, 2 Chris Whitehead, 3 Craig Mitchell, 4 Tom Hayes (capt), 5 James Hanks, 6 Tom Johnson, 7 James Scaysbrook, 8 Richard Baxter

16 Simon Alcott, 17 Ben Moon, 18 Carl Rimmer, 19 Aly Muldowney, 20 James Phillips, 21 Kevin Barrett, 22 Gareth Steenson, 23 Jack Nowell



London Welsh:
15. Tom Arscott, 14. Phil Mackenzie*, 13. Sonny Parker*, 12. Hudson Tonga’uiha*, 11. Nick Scott, 10. Gordon Ross*, 9. Tyson Keats,
1. Frank Montanella*, 2. Neil Briggs, 3. Paulica Ion*, 4 Jonathan Mills ©, 5. Matt Corker, 6. Daniel Browne, 7. Mike Denbee, 8. Ed Jackson.

16. Dan George, 17. Tom Bristow, 18. Arthur Joly, 19. Kirill Kulemin*, 20. Alfie To’oala*, 21. Jonah Holmes, 22. James Lewis, 23. Seb Jewell.

Some interesting match ups. 4 of the unbeaten teams play each other while two of theteams yet to record a win also meet.

Let the fun begin

A number of these games could go either way and as you say are very interesting match ups. From those I think it would only be safe to say that Quins and Exeter will win.

I feel Saints will have too much power in the scrum for Bath; and Wasps will beat Irish. The other 2 games are even more difficult to call. Glaws really should beat Wuss, but this derby always seems to bring the best out of Wuss. Maybe my natural bias sees Glaws sneaking this one. I really can't decide with Sarries and Tigers, so it means it'll be a draw!

Saints have had a tough start and this carries on. This will be the real measure of where Bath are. A win for Bath would really make people sit up and take notice.

Worcester vs Gloucester is one of the more intriguing encounters. Both will be buoyed by last week. Worcester will be hoping they can notch up their first win and Gloucester will be looking to build some momentum after their tight loss to Saints in round 1.

Quins must be loving this. Real opportunity to get 3/3 without breaking a sweat. Could well be another try bonus too. Can Sale shock the champs? Probably not but with a better performance against Sarries they might feel confident they can at least make Quins work a little bit for their tries.

Both Irish and Wasps badly need a win. Both teams have leaked tries so quite possibly a high score would be expected. Some exciting backs will be on show too.

Of course I am biased but the match of the round IMO is Sarries-Leicester. A rarity when both sides should be close to full strength. This is the first clash of two of the top 4. Expect sparks to fly. Will be interesting to see who is picked for the side. Will Leicester rest players as some Tigers fans have suggested?

The last match of the weekend should be a comfortable away victory for Exeter.London Welsh can at least be pleased they are only playing 5th instead of 3rd and 4th of last season.

I predict- Saints to win by 5 (no TBP)
Gloucester to win by 8 (TBP)
Wasps to win by 4 (no TBP)
Too close to call- so I'll go for the bigger risk and say Sarries will draw with Tigers!
Chiefs to win by 6 (no TBP)

I personally don't like to predict till I see the sides. Chequeredjersey are you sure it's not your heart going for the draw?

beshocked wrote:I personally don't like to predict till I see the sides. Chequeredjersey are you sure it's not your heart going for the draw?

Probably.

I may change my mind if Sarries play Mordt or Tigers play Manu at 12 or something, but both teams should in theory be in the Playoffs and both are in winning form- Tigers have scored more tries but Sarries are at home. It'll depend more on the gameplan and the little things on the day than the teamsheet as I presume both sides will but out strong match day squads

ChequeredJersey wrote:I predict- Saints to win by 5 (no TBP)
Gloucester to win by 8 (TBP)
Wasps to win by 4 (no TBP)
Too close to call- so I'll go for the bigger risk and say Sarries will draw with Tigers!
Chiefs to win by 6 (no TBP)

CJ, Have to be honest, I will be incredibly disappointed if that is the final result

Of course, if Tigers actively rest some players for Sarries (unless it means rotating the likes of Cole and Castro, which barely counts), frankly they'd deserve it if they lost. Be like us going to Biarritz in the HEC and deciding that's the day to blood the academy boys. Leicester do have enough strength in depth though that they can rotate several positions without it really being resting players

ChequeredJersey wrote:

beshocked wrote:I personally don't like to predict till I see the sides. Chequeredjersey are you sure it's not your heart going for the draw?

Probably.

I may change my mind if Sarries play Mordt or Tigers play Manu at 12 or something, but both teams should in theory be in the Playoffs and both are in winning form- Tigers have scored more tries but Sarries are at home. It'll depend more on the gameplan and the little things on the day than the teamsheet as I presume both sides will but out strong match day squads

I think the team's crucial. I hope that Tigers decide to rest Tuilagi and Murphy. Wishful thinking I know.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:I predict- Saints to win by 5 (no TBP)
Gloucester to win by 8 (TBP)
Wasps to win by 4 (no TBP)
Too close to call- so I'll go for the bigger risk and say Sarries will draw with Tigers!
Chiefs to win by 6 (no TBP)

CJ, Have to be honest, I will be incredibly disappointed if that is the final result

I think this is where Welsh step up. Otherwise their matches will all get boring. Again, nothing against Exeter (one of my favourite teams, nice and local to my folks) but I want welsh to put up some sort of a fight at some point. Watching this weekend's games, we were sub-par against them and still shut out their attack and scored 6 tries. It could have been 12. That is not good for the competition if it happens every week

Cockers is conservative and does not like to rest/rotate players. However the lesson from last season needs to be learnt where we were running on empty at the end.

I would expect a number of changes from the weekend:

Mulipola replaces Stanko, and Cole replacing Castro will strengthen the front row.
I would like to se the second row stay the same, but see Crane start with Waldrom dropping to the bench.

I would not be surpised to see Ford and Flood rotate for this game. Ford will still have fond memories of the last meeting.

Benjamin is injured, but it would be nice to think that Bowden and Thompstone are in contention for starts - whether they are up to speed with defensive plays I am not sure.

beshocked wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

beshocked wrote:I personally don't like to predict till I see the sides. Chequeredjersey are you sure it's not your heart going for the draw?

Probably.

I may change my mind if Sarries play Mordt or Tigers play Manu at 12 or something, but both teams should in theory be in the Playoffs and both are in winning form- Tigers have scored more tries but Sarries are at home. It'll depend more on the gameplan and the little things on the day than the teamsheet as I presume both sides will but out strong match day squads

I think the team's crucial. I hope that Tigers decide to rest Tuilagi and Murphy. Wishful thinking I know.

Nah,I hear they are resting them the week after, against whatever jokers they are playing then

Ford has not be acquainted with Kelly Brown.

So any hope of Murphy or Tuilagi being rested? Your most crucial players in the backline are those two IMO.

P.S please play Hamilton and Tait at full back and 13 respectively.

beshocked wrote:Ford has not be acquainted with Kelly Brown.

So any hope of Murphy or Tuilagi being rested?

Doubt it very much. They are most likely to be rested for the visit to Salford the week before we travel to Toulouse.

Shame - I hope you do play Ford actually. He'll have mixed memories when it comes to Sarries bit like all the players.

Unfortunately I think Farrell will start at 10.

Tuilagi will be the biggest threat then.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:I predict- Saints to win by 5 (no TBP)
Gloucester to win by 8 (TBP)
Wasps to win by 4 (no TBP)
Too close to call- so I'll go for the bigger risk and say Sarries will draw with Tigers!
Chiefs to win by 6 (no TBP)

CJ, Have to be honest, I will be incredibly disappointed if that is the final result

I think this is where Welsh step up. Otherwise their matches will all get boring. Again, nothing against Exeter (one of my favourite teams, nice and local to my folks) but I want welsh to put up some sort of a fight at some point. Watching this weekend's games, we were sub-par against them and still shut out their attack and scored 6 tries. It could have been 12. That is not good for the competition if it happens every week

What is it about Exe then that makes you think that Welsh will be able to step up? I'm slightly worried now!

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:I predict- Saints to win by 5 (no TBP)
Gloucester to win by 8 (TBP)
Wasps to win by 4 (no TBP)
Too close to call- so I'll go for the bigger risk and say Sarries will draw with Tigers!
Chiefs to win by 6 (no TBP)

CJ, Have to be honest, I will be incredibly disappointed if that is the final result

I think this is where Welsh step up. Otherwise their matches will all get boring. Again, nothing against Exeter (one of my favourite teams, nice and local to my folks) but I want welsh to put up some sort of a fight at some point. Watching this weekend's games, we were sub-par against them and still shut out their attack and scored 6 tries. It could have been 12. That is not good for the competition if it happens every week

What is it about Exe then that makes you think that Welsh will be able to step up? I'm slightly worried now!

Nothing about Ex, but it's their first home game against a team they will want to measure themselves against. Now I've said this you'll put 50 on them

Hope you're right about that score. But you're right, Welsh are going to be a banana skin for somebody, sooner or later

The critical thing for Quins is that they execute well this week. No offence to Sale, but I can't see them winning at the Stoop. However, Quins need to find their most clinical edge in time to take it to Welford Road the following week.

With the way Exeter have started, I can't see them giving Welsh an easier time than they had from Tigers or Quins.

I think Worcester may just have enough to defend their turf, as might Bath. Wasps should get past Irish.

Which leaves Tigers and Sarries. From a partisan perspective, I'd like Tigers to win. I would not want to face the inevitable backlash after a loss. Either side could win and I think it will probably go to whoever reads the ref better. I'll give it to Sarries. Just.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Hope you're right about that score. But you're right, Welsh are going to be a banana skin for somebody, sooner or later

Us I would imagine!

Very excited about this weekend!

I'm not going to make any predictions but i will be either be glued to my seat at the Stoop with a beer, or glued to my sofa with a beer.

Ozzy3213 wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Hope you're right about that score. But you're right, Welsh are going to be a banana skin for somebody, sooner or later

Us I would imagine!

Not the ideal start, Pete, but with Smith & Edwards in charge, you know it's going to turn around sometime

beshocked wrote:Saints have had a tough start and this carries on. This will be the real measure of where Bath are. A win for Bath would really make people sit up and take notice.

Worcester vs Gloucester is one of the more intriguing encounters. Both will be buoyed by last week. Worcester will be hoping they can notch up their first win and Gloucester will be looking to build some momentum after their tight loss to Saints in round 1.

Quins must be loving this. Real opportunity to get 3/3 without breaking a sweat. Could well be another try bonus too. Can Sale shock the champs? Probably not but with a better performance against Sarries they might feel confident they can at least make Quins work a little bit for their tries.

Both Irish and Wasps badly need a win. Both teams have leaked tries so quite possibly a high score would be expected. Some exciting backs will be on show too.

Of course I am biased but the match of the round IMO is Sarries-Leicester. A rarity when both sides should be close to full strength. This is the first clash of two of the top 4. Expect sparks to fly. Will be interesting to see who is picked for the side. Will Leicester rest players as some Tigers fans have suggested?

The last match of the weekend should be a comfortable away victory for Exeter.London Welsh can at least be pleased they are only playing 5th instead of 3rd and 4th of last season.

I doubt sparks will fly to be honest. Tigers will throw the kitchen sink at Sarries and Sarries will dig in, likely looking to exploit any defensive mistakes. Tigers' defence hasn't been the best and therefore, I expect Sarries to win (not by much) and I would expect Tigers to win the WElford Rd encounter (obviously I know thats a long way off and a lot can happen between now and then).

Dont forget the Glouces game is being shown on ESPN Classic - not ESPN!
Live rugby has been bumped for the wendyball - again! and I dont have classic.
Not happy.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Hope you're right about that score. But you're right, Welsh are going to be a banana skin for somebody, sooner or later

Us I would imagine!

Not the ideal start, Pete, but with Smith & Edwards in charge, you know it's going to turn around sometime

Yeah, we'll get there, is just going to take longer than I initially thought it would. Still need a tighthead though.

Ozzy3213 wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Hope you're right about that score. But you're right, Welsh are going to be a banana skin for somebody, sooner or later

Us I would imagine!

Not the ideal start, Pete, but with Smith & Edwards in charge, you know it's going to turn around sometime

Yeah, we'll get there, is just going to take longer than I initially thought it would. Still need a tighthead though.

How are going to have the LDH next year, after London Irish are relegated...

Am going to Adams Park but not confident we will beat Wasps.
Imagine there will be lots of tries and attacking play, along with some poor defending.
If we can get parity upfront then I think we have the better backs. But to be honest cant see us doing that.

Ozzy3213 wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Hope you're right about that score. But you're right, Welsh are going to be a banana skin for somebody, sooner or later

Us I would imagine!

Not the ideal start, Pete, but with Smith & Edwards in charge, you know it's going to turn around sometime

Yeah, we'll get there, is just going to take longer than I initially thought it would. Still need a tighthead though.

I admire your optimism Ozzy. I think you need a little bit more than a tighthead! I think the problem with a few sides like Gloucester,Sale and LI is that they try to attack without a proper platform set in the forwards.

LI and Gloucester in particular have exciting backs but if they are constantly under pressure due to their pack not being able to compete. This means their penalty count against and error count racks up.

The whole right to go wide saying is definitely true. Sides without the pack performing will continue to struggle in my opinion.

Happy Wednesday Boys and Girls,
Round three is very interesting. We are starting to see who the form teams are, but also the teams which just might struggle. And there is always a surprise ot two.

Prediction time for round three:
Bath v Northampton Saints
Bath undefeated? Close victories over Wasps and Worcester were not exactly confidence building wins. Saints had good wins against Gloucester and Exeter made closer than should have been due to mental failure. Mallinder will make each member of the club have the exact same hair style as he does if they screw up again. Saints, close at the half, but comfortable at the end.

Worcester Warriors v Gloucester
Worcester looks a bit stronger than their record. Classic trap game for Gloucester, which, in the past, they may well have lost. Not this weekend however. Good win for the Tomato and Whites with possible 4-try bonus point.

Harlequins v Sale Sharks
Can Quins keep putting 40 points on everyone they play? Which is the real Sale Sharks, the one who got spanked by Exe? Or the one which played Saracens close? Methinks this is a real tester for Quins. Harlequins win, but oh so close.

Wasps v London Irish
Really interesting story line here. Are Wasps really improving? Are Irish (London, not the country) in free fall? If London Irish lose this one they will be sweating the rest of the season and offering prayers of thanks for London/Oxford Welsh's successful appeal of the Primacy of Tenure rule. Start praying boys. There are gonna be a lot of points, but Wasps win, probably 60 - 50.

Saracens v Leicester Tigers
Both Saracens and Tigers supporters want to read that this is the match of the weekend. So I won't say it. It should be nut-cutting exciting, even if the Sarries do not actually r-u-n with the ball in hand. Tigers will, and should run a lot. Can Sarries stop them, strip possession and kick the ball back downfield for Tigers to start again? Tigers win if they don't get too tired running back about 100 kicks. Keep in mind this is a soccer stadium. It it rains, it will turn into a quagmire killing the kicking game.

London/Oxford Welsh v Exeter Budgens
Anyone see the movie "Death Becomes You"? This is how London/Oxford Welsh will look when this is over. I will then start collecting pennies for their eyes. I do feel bad for the players.

Bath team up

Bath and Saints team up above.

Two changes for Bath (James and Williams in for Banahan and Catt), but what looks like a fair few for Saints - Burrell, Myler, Mercey and Oakley come into the starting line-up, while Cortney Lawes is back on the bench.

Scrum time will be interesting. with both LHs hoping to get the upper hand on their TH rival. Pisi is a big loss for Saints, but with Myler selected ahead of Lamb their game plan will be to control territory and unleash the big runners from close in.

Sneaky feeling that Saints will have a pleasant journey home.

Saints- Too much class and experience for Bath, Foden will love Bath's kicking game.

Gloucester- Forwards looked primed last weekend, if they carry that form over and the backs click Wuss wont stop them.

Wasps- Best of two poor teams, Wasps have looked dangerous but lacking fitness (badly lacking). LI have looked like Bath last season but worse.

Saracens- Home advantage should be enough here to edge a close game.

Exeter- Probably Welsh's best chance at a win, I assume they probably
played each other when Ex were in the Champ so have some previous but Chiefs will be too strong.

Best odds as it current stands for the wins:

Bath 11/10, Saints Evens
Wuss 11/8 Glaws 3/4
Quins 2/11, Sale 6/1
Wasps 5/11 LI 9/4
Sarries 11/10 Tigers 10/11
LW 17/5 Exeter 2/7

Bloody hell, can't see any odds there i'd get excited enough slapping 20 squid on!

doctor_grey wrote:
Saracens v Leicester Tigers
Both Saracens and Tigers supporters want to read that this is the match of the weekend. So I won't say it. It should be nut-cutting exciting, even if the Sarries do not actually r-u-n with the ball in hand. Tigers will, and should run a lot. Can Sarries stop them, strip possession and kick the ball back downfield for Tigers to start again? Tigers win if they don't get too tired running back about 100 kicks. Keep in mind this is a soccer stadium. It it rains, it will turn into a quagmire killing the kicking game.

I know this is mostly tongue in cheek, but even though I'm not a Saracens fan I still think it's a bit unfair.

Looking at the stats for the first 2 games of the season:

Sarries (against LI & Sale) - Tigers (against LW & Worcester)
227 runs 181
1039 metres 825
318 passes 256
26 offloads 21

beshocked wrote:

LI and Gloucester in particular have exciting backs but if they are constantly under pressure due to their pack not being able to compete. This means their penalty count against and error count racks up.

The whole right to go wide saying is definitely true. Sides without the pack performing will continue to struggle in my opinion.

I think Gloucester have a useful pack.

DaveM wrote:I think Gloucester have a useful pack.

They certainly have the constituent parts to make a good pack. Just do not seem able to combine the pieces to create something special.

This is only their 3rd game of the season! I think their pack looks a lot more convincing this season than previously. It sounds like they performed well against LI, it'll be very interesting to see how they go on Saturday.

As it is the same players as last year, virtually, I was taking that into account.

I remember the days when Gloucester truly had a pack to be feared.

Well they've got Kalamafoni and Morgan, plus notably more mature versions of Savage and Knight so I'd say their pack is pretty different. I think they have a pack that can compete with anyone, particularly at home.

Gloucester team:

Jonny May; Shane Monahan, Henry Trinder, Mike Tindall, James Simpson-Daniel; Billy Twelvetrees, Dan Robson; Nick Wood, Huia Edmonds, Rupert Harden; Will James, Jim Hamilton (capt); Tom Savage, Andy Hazell, Ben Morgan

Replacements:

Darren Dawidiuk, Dan Murphy, Shaun Knight, Sione Kalamafoni, Akapusi Qera, Dave Lewis, Freddie Burns, Rob Cook

I die a little inside every time I see Tindall pull on the 12 shirt.

5 Chris Pennell
14 Nikki Walker
13 Alex Grove
12 Joe Carlisle
11 David Lemi
10 Andy Goode
9 Shaun Perry

1 Matt Mullan
2 Aleki Lutui
3 John Andress
4 James Percival
5 Dean Schofield (c)
6 Chris Jones
7 Sam Betty
8 Matt Kvesic

Replacements
16 Ollie Hayes
17 Ceri Jones
18 James Currie
19 Craig Gillies
20 Semisi Taulava
21 Jonny Arr
22 Josh Matavesi
23 Josh Drauniniu

Interesting to see Kvesic at no.8, he seems like he is going to be a really versatile back row player.

London Irish unchanged:

15. Tom Homer; 14. Topsy Ojo*13. Jonathan Joseph*; 12. Sailosi Tagicakibau*; 11. Marland Yarde 10. Steve Shingler; 9. Tomás O’Leary*; 1. Max Lahiff; 2. Scott Lawson*; 3. Leo Halavatau; 4. George Skivington; 5. Bryn Evans*; 6. Declan Danaher (Captain); 7. Ofisa Treviranus*; 8. Jon Fisher

Replacements: 16. Brian Blaney; 17. Halani Aulika*; 18. John Ryan; 19. Kieran Low; 20. Alex Gray; 21. Anthony Watson; 22. Shane Geraghty*; 23. Jack Moates

Saracens line-up vs Leicester Tigers

15 Alex Goode
14 Chris Ashton
13 Joel Tomkins
12 Brad Barritt
11 James Short
10 Owen Farrell
9 Neil de Kock
1 Mako Vunipola
2 Schalk Brits
3 Carlos Nieto
4 Steve Borthwick ©
5 Mouritz Botha
6 Kelly Brown
7 Jackson Wray
8 Ernst Joubert

16 John Smit
17 Rhys Gill
18 Petrus du Plessis
19 Alistair Hargreaves
20 Will Fraser
21 Richard Wigglesworth
22 Charlie Hodgson
23 Chris Wyles





Leicester Tigers (v Saracens, Wembley Stadium, Saturday 3.30pm)
15 Geordan Murphy (c)
14 Scott Hamilton
13 Manusamoa Tuilagi
12 Anthony Allen
11 Vereniki Goneva
10 Toby Flood
9 Sam Harrison
1 Logovi'i Mulipola
2 Tom Youngs
3 Dan Cole
4 Graham Kitchener
5 Geoff Parling
6 Steve Mafi
7 Julian Salvi
8 Thomas Waldrom

Replacements
16 George Chuter
17 Boris Stankovich
18 Martin Castrogiovanni
19 Rob Andrew
20 Jordan Crane
21 Patrick Phibbs
22 George Ford
23 Matt Smith

Wasps:

1 Tim Payne
2 T Rhys Thomas
3 Fabio Staibano
4 Tom Palmer
5 Marco Wentzel
6 Joe Launchbury
7 Jonathan Poff
8 Ashley Johnson
9 Joe Simpson
10 Stephen Jones
11 Christian Wade
12 Andrea Masi
13 Elliot Daly
14 Tom Varndell
15 Hugo Southwell (c)

Replacements
16 Tom Lindsay
17 Simon McIntyre
18 Zak Taulafo
19 James Haskell
20 Billy Vunipola
21 Charlie Davies
22 Nick Robinson
23 Tommy Bell

Sale Sharks: 15.Rob Miller, 14.Tom Brady, 13.Johnny Leota, 12.Sam Tuitupou, 11.Mark Cueto , 10.Danny Cipriani, 9.Dwayne Peel , 1.Eifion Lewis-Roberts, 2.Joe Ward, 3.Vadim Cobilas, 4.Richie Gray, 5.Kearnan Myall, 6.James Gaskell , 7.David Seymour (capt.), 8.Richie Vernon

Replacements: 16.Tommy Taylor, 17.Alasdair Dickinson, 18.Henry Thomas, 19.Fraser McKenzie, 20.Mark Easter, 21.Will Cliff, 22.Nick Macleod, 23.Mark Jennings


Quins:

15 Mike Brown
14 Tom Williams
13 George Lowe
12 Jordan Turner-Hall
11 Ugo Monye
10 Nick Evans
9 Danny Care

1 Joe Marler
2 Joe Gray
3 James Johnston
4 Charlie Matthews
5 George Robson
6 Tom Guest
7 Chris Robshaw (C)
8 Nick Easter

Replacements

16 Rob Buchanan
17 Darryl Marfo
18 Will Collier
19 Peter Browne
20 Maurie Fa'asavalu
21 Karl Dickson
22 Rory Clegg
23 Matt Hopper

I will move all the teams up to the top.

Sarries have made a lot of changes recalling Carlos Nieto, Jackson Wray, Neil de Kock, Owen Farrell and James Short to the starting line-up, with Petrus du Plessis, Will Fraser, Richard Wigglesworth, Charlie Hodgson and Chris Wyles switching to the replacement's bench. Smit replaces George on the bench as well.

I am pleased to see Kitchener given another run-out, and as expected the props rotate. I had thought we may see Crane from the start (and Ford) but I was wrong.

the changes Sarries have made suggest they will be aiming to play a controlled territorial game.

beshocked wrote:
LI and Gloucester in particular have exciting backs but if they are constantly under pressure due to their pack not being able to compete. This means their penalty count against and error count racks up.

Actually, this season has been the complete opposite. The pack, particularly at the scrum have dominated Saints & Irish, but the backs have looked very disjointed.

LondonTiger wrote:

DaveM wrote:I think Gloucester have a useful pack.

They certainly have the constituent parts to make a good pack. Just do not seem able to combine the pieces to create something special.

I think that's true. We're still not good enough at defending the maul and our lineout does need work, although that seems to be coming along quite nicely. But in general our pack is looking very good.


Our real area of improvement has been in the ball carrying front. Morgan is getting the plaudits and Qera is well known. Kalamafoni is proving to be a great impact player, but the stand out by some way has been Tom Savage - I'm not suggesting he's the same standard, but he brings the level of intensity that Jacques Burger brings. He just hits everything as hard as possible. If you watched the Rugby Club this week, the first clip of Morgan was actually Savage and he just kept charging!

Just a final comment, it's nice to see 36 is guaranteed the starting 12 spot...

I was hoping Crane would start too to be honest