Aviva Premieship Round 3 - Preview and Discussion

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TABLE


Friday 14th September

Bath Rugby (4,4) v Northampton Saints (4,5) - 19:45 ESPN
Preview

Bath Team News:
Bath make two changes, Ben williams for the Injured Banahan and Paul James in for Nathan Catt.

15. Nick Abendanon, 14. Kyle Eastmond, 13. Dan Hipkiss, 12. Ben Williams, 11. Tom Biggs, 10. Olly Barkley, 9. Michael Claassens
1. Paul James, 2. Lee Mears, 3. David Wilson, 4. Stuart Hooper (c), 5. Dominic Day, 6. Simon Taylor, 7. Carl Fearns, 8. Ben Skirving

16. Ross Batty, 17. Nathan Catt, 18. Anthony Perenise, 19. Dave Attwood, 20. Josh Ovens, 21. Mark McMillan, 22. Ollie Devoto, 23. Jack Cuthbert


Saints Team News:
A few enforced changes for Saints - Burrell starts for the injured Pisi, tom Mercey is chosen ahead of PDJ to deputise for the Mooj. Finally Rhys Oakley stands in for the suspended van Velze. In the backs Myler chosen ahead of Lamb. Nice to see Lawes making an appearance on the Saints bench.

15 Ben FODEN, 14 Ken PISI, 13 Dom WALDOUCK ,12 Luther BURRELL ,11 Vasily ARTEMYEV ,10 Stephen MYLER ,9 Lee DICKSON ,
1 Soane TONGA'UIHA ,2 Dylan HARTLEY (capt) ,3 Tom MERCEY ,4 Samu MANOA ,5 Christian DAY ,6 Phil DOWSON ,7 Tom WOOD ,8 Rhys OAKLEY

16 Mike HAYWOOD 17 Alex WALLER 18 Paul DORAN JONES 19 Mark SORENSON 20 Courtney LAWES 21 Martin ROBERTS 22 Ryan LAMB 23 Tom MAY



Saturday 15th September

Worcester Warriors (1,0) v Gloucester Rugby (1,4) 13:30 ESPN
Preview

Worcester:
Warriors make changes on the wing, centre and back row with Walker, Carlisle and Kvesic coming in.
15 Chris Pennell, 14 Nikki Walker, 13 Alex Grove, 12 Joe Carlisle, 11 David Lemi, 10 Andy Goode, 9 Shaun Perry
1 Matt Mullan, 2 Aleki Lutui, 3 John Andress, 4 James Percival, 5 Dean Schofield (c), 6 Chris Jones, 7 Sam Betty, 8 Matt Kvesic

16 Ollie Hayes, 17 Ceri Jones, 18 James Currie, 19 Craig Gillies, 20 Semisi Taulava, 21 Jonny Arr, 22 Josh Matavesi, 23 Josh Drauniniu


Gloucester:
36 switches to 10 while Tindall returns in the 12 shirt.
Jonny May; Shane Monahan, Henry Trinder, Mike Tindall, James Simpson-Daniel; Billy Twelvetrees, Dan Robson;
Nick Wood, Huia Edmonds, Rupert Harden; Will James, Jim Hamilton (capt); Tom Savage, Andy Hazell, Ben Morgan

Darren Dawidiuk, Dan Murphy, Shaun Knight, Sione Kalamafoni, Akapusi Qera, Dave Lewis, Freddie Burns, Rob Cook




Harlequins (5,5) v Sale Sharks (0,1) – 15:00
Preview

Quins:
Care switches with Dickson, while Easter is back at 8 seeing Guest moving to 6. Clegg replaces Botica on the bench.

15 Mike Brown, 14 Tom Williams, 13 George Lowe, 12 Jordan Turner-Hall, 11 Ugo Monye, 10 Nick Evans, 9 Danny Care
1 Joe Marler, 2 Joe Gray, 3 James Johnston, 4 Charlie Matthews, 5 George Robson, 6 Tom Guest, 7 Chris Robshaw (C), 8 Nick Easter

16 Rob Buchanan, 17 Darryl Marfo, 18 Will Collier, 19 Peter Browne, 20 Maurie Fa'asavalu, 21 Karl Dickson, 22 Rory Clegg, 23 Matt Hopper


Sale:
cueto back into the Sales strarting XV

15.Rob Miller, 14.Tom Brady, 13.Johnny Leota, 12.Sam Tuitupou, 11.Mark Cueto , 10.Danny Cipriani, 9.Dwayne Peel ,
1.Eifion Lewis-Roberts, 2.Joe Ward, 3.Vadim Cobilas, 4.Richie Gray, 5.Kearnan Myall, 6.James Gaskell , 7.David Seymour (capt.), 8.Richie Vernon

16.Tommy Taylor, 17.Alasdair Dickinson, 18.Henry Thomas, 19.Fraser McKenzie, 20.Mark Easter, 21.Will Cliff, 22.Nick Macleod, 23.Mark Jennings




London Wasps (1,1) v London Irish (0,0) – 15:00
Preview

Wasps:
Masi returns for Wasps in the centre, while Stephen Jones makes his AP debut. Lindsay, Haskell and Vunipola move to the bench with thomas, Palmer and Johnson starting. Launchberry moves to 6.

1 Tim Payne, 2 T Rhys Thomas, 3 Fabio Staibano, 4 Tom Palmer, 5 Marco Wentzel, 6 Joe Launchbury, 7 Jonathan Poff, 8 Ashley Johnson
9 Joe Simpson, 10 Stephen Jones ,11 Christian Wade ,12 Andrea Masi, 13 Elliot Daly, 14 Tom Varndell, 15 Hugo Southwell (c)

16 Tom Lindsay, 17 Simon McIntyre, , 18 Zak Taulafo, 19 James Haskell, 20 Billy Vunipola, 21 Charlie Davies, 22 Nick Robinson, 23 Tommy Bell


London Irish:

15. Tom Homer; 14. Topsy Ojo*13. Jonathan Joseph*; 12. Sailosi Tagicakibau*; 11. Marland Yarde 10. Steve Shingler; 9. Tomás O’Leary*; 1. Max Lahiff; 2. Scott Lawson*; 3. Leo Halavatau; 4. George Skivington; 5. Bryn Evans*; 6. Declan Danaher (Captain); 7. Ofisa Treviranus*; 8. Jon Fisher

16. Brian Blaney; 17. Halani Aulika*; 18. John Ryan; 19. Kieran Low; 20. Alex Gray; 21. Anthony Watson; 22. Shane Geraghty*; 23. Jack Moates



Saracens (5,4) v Leicester Tigers (5,5) – 15:30 SKY
Preview

Saracens Team News:
A fair few changes for Sarries - Carlos Nieto, Jackson Wray, Neil de Kock, Owen Farrell and James Short recalled to the starting line-up, with Petrus du Plessis, Will Fraser, Richard Wigglesworth, Charlie Hodgson and Chris Wyles switching to the replacement's bench.

15 Alex Goode,
14 Chris Ashton, 13 Joel Tomkins, 12 Brad Barritt, 11 James Short, 10 Owen Farrell, 9 Neil de Kock,
1 Mako Vunipola, 2 Schalk Brits, 3 Carlos Nieto, 4 Steve Borthwick (c), 5 Mouritz Botha, 6 Kelly Brown, 7 Jackson Wray, 8 Ernst Joubert

16 John Smit, 17 Rhys Gill, 18 Petrus du Plessis, 19 Alistair Hargreaves, 20 Will Fraser, 21 Richard Wigglesworth, 22 Charlie Hodgson, 23 Chris Wyles


Tigers Team News:
Tigers, bringing in Cole for Castro and Logo for Stanko. Final change on the bench sees Chuter replacing Hawkins.

15 Geordan Murphy (c), 14 Scott Hamilton, 13 Manusamoa Tuilagi, 12 Anthony Allen, 11 Vereniki Goneva, 10 Toby Flood, 9 Sam Harrison
1 Logovi'i Mulipola, 2 Tom Youngs, 3 Dan Cole, 4 Graham Kitchener, 5 Geoff Parling, 6 Steve Mafi, 7 Julian Salvi, 8 Thomas Waldrom

16 George Chuter, 17 Boris Stankovich, 18 Martin Castrogiovanni, 19 Rob Andrew, 20 Jordan Crane, 21 Patrick Phibbs, 22 George Ford, 23 Matt Smiths swap prop




Sunday 16th September

London Welsh (0,0) v Exeter Chiefs (5,1) - 15:00
Preview

Exeter Chiefs:
Some reshuffling of the backs I understand.
15 Luke Arscott, 14 Ian Whitten, 13 Sireli Naqelevuki, 12 Phil Dollman, 11 Matt Jess, 10 Ignacio Mieres, 9 Will Chudley
1 Brett Sturgess, 2 Chris Whitehead, 3 Craig Mitchell, 4 Tom Hayes (capt), 5 James Hanks, 6 Tom Johnson, 7 James Scaysbrook, 8 Richard Baxter

16 Simon Alcott, 17 Ben Moon, 18 Carl Rimmer, 19 Aly Muldowney, 20 James Phillips, 21 Kevin Barrett, 22 Gareth Steenson, 23 Jack Nowell



London Welsh:
15. Tom Arscott, 14. Phil Mackenzie*, 13. Sonny Parker*, 12. Hudson Tonga’uiha*, 11. Nick Scott, 10. Gordon Ross*, 9. Tyson Keats,
1. Frank Montanella*, 2. Neil Briggs, 3. Paulica Ion*, 4 Jonathan Mills ©, 5. Matt Corker, 6. Daniel Browne, 7. Mike Denbee, 8. Ed Jackson.

16. Dan George, 17. Tom Bristow, 18. Arthur Joly, 19. Kirill Kulemin*, 20. Alfie To’oala*, 21. Jonah Holmes, 22. James Lewis, 23. Seb Jewell.

I don't care what orders he has, if you're a rugby player and you see a massive over lap you take it... right?

Bath disengage at the scrum then play the ball when it pops out. Sick of refs letting that happen

Cumbrian wrote:I don't care what orders he has, if you're a rugby player and you see a massive over lap you take it... right?

Barkley has never been known for his ability to see what is in front of him.

LondonTiger wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:I don't care what orders he has, if you're a rugby player and you see a massive over lap you take it... right?

Barkley has never been known for his ability to see what is in front of him.

huh? I'd say he probably 'known' for questionable defence by most anti Bath fans moreso. Doubting his creativity is harsh

Great pass barkley

Barkley has always been a talented player but without that instant decision making needed to play 10. I always thought 12 suited him better as he needed that extra time to weigh things up - but then you get the defence issue.

But hey, we are allowed to disagree.

What was that tool doing?

Dowson feeling a bit stupid?

Rubbish match really

why the hell did the Saints take so long to get rid of that!!

Bath flatter to deceive and ruin my fecking sports guru yet again. Why can't the useless gets win at home?

LondonTiger wrote:Barkley has always been a talented player but without that instant decision making needed to play 10. I always thought 12 suited him better as he needed that extra time to weigh things up - but then you get the defence issue.

But hey, we are allowed to disagree.

Oh yeah, definitely a 12, but not doing a bad job at 10 as a fill in to be fair.

Wow, well could, probably should have stolen that there. Overlap butchered and then Skirving gets robbed like a girl. Hey ho, 1 point loss with no possesion whatsoever against a much better Saints side isn't too bad I guess.

Well, I get the win, but the guy above me increases his lead as he got the points difference right.

Saints looked what they are - A top 4 side - won in a tight game without playing that well.

Cumbrian wrote:Bath flatter to deceive and ruin my fecking sports guru yet again. Why can't the useless gets win at home?

Flatter to deceive? Gameplan was pretty obvious from the start and exactly the same as the last two games, shouldn't be any surprises really.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Saints looked what they are - A top 4 side - won in a tight game without playing that well.

Exactly!

Bathite wrote:
Wow, well could, probably should have stolen that there. Overlap butchered and then Skirving gets robbed like a girl. Hey ho, 1 point loss with no possesion whatsoever against a much better Saints side isn't too bad I guess.

I thought it was a 4pt loss?

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Saints looked what they are - A top 4 side - won in a tight game without playing that well.

Exactly!

Bathite wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:Bath flatter to deceive and ruin my fecking sports guru yet again. Why can't the useless gets win at home?

Flatter to deceive? Gameplan was pretty obvious from the start and exactly the same as the last two games, shouldn't be any surprises really.

Flatter to deceive = signing international players and looking like they should be able to compete on paper and then in fact getting beat at home by saints in a pretty dour match, where they were pretty much dominated.

Or, scoring a good try, not conceding a try against a top 4 side, who have a much better squad, including the bench. With very little possession, nearly snatching a win at the end.

The difference between us and Saints is huge, everyone knows that! Come on, get real!

Get real? You've got a fecking billionaire bank rolling you and plenty of international players. Surely you can't be happy with Saints coming down to your gaff and bitch slapping you? Surely you've got top 4 ambitions?

Cumbrian wrote:Get real? You've got a fecking billionaire bank rolling you and plenty of international players. Surely you can't be happy with Saints coming down to your gaff and bitch slapping you? Surely you've got top 4 ambitions?

Luddite. Not wasting my breath on you troll

How am I trolling? It's a genuine question! There is no need to be so over sensitive!

Edit: Luddite... You know what Luddites are/ were right? Bath rugby certainly aren't a piece of technology and I certainly don't fear/hate them.

Saints are a better team than they were last year - not gbecause the squad is better, but last season they were suffering hangovers from the HC final, and RWC. They never really got started and then there were various disciplin ary issues. Even so they got wing a minute of the AP final.

They will do well this season.


BUT Bath should not be accepting of a defeat like that. They should have ambitions for top 4 and should be winning those sorts of games.

Cumbrian wrote:Get real? You've got a fecking billionaire bank rolling you and plenty of international players. Surely you can't be happy with Saints coming down to your gaff and bitch slapping you? Surely you've got top 4 ambitions?

Bitch-slapping? By 4 points?

Keep the hate coming, anyone with half a brain can see Gold has inherited a squad with none of his own choices and Bath are improving week on week, Saints are an established set-up and played rugby so ugly my eyes hurt.

Bath did more to destruct their own game than Saints could ever have dreamt of.

Top 4 is not on the cards at all, top 6 is the aim and has to be realistic, GG has to do what he can with what he has, if he makes top 6 that will be a result.

Thanks PJ, couldn't be arsed to do it myself

Best team won. 4th played 8th. Simples

LondonTiger wrote:Saints are a better team than they were last year - not gbecause the squad is better, but last season they were suffering hangovers from the HC final, and RWC. They never really got started and then there were various disciplin ary issues. Even so they got wing a minute of the AP final.

They will do well this season.


BUT Bath should not be accepting of a defeat like that. They should have ambitions for top 4 and should be winning those sorts of games.

Jeez, expected better from you LT. Honestly? You really believe GG has come into the Bath set-up fait accompli and has ambitions of finishing the season top 4?!!

Top 6 is achievable and should be considered a success, nobody in the Bath set-up will be happy with that, so why would you think anyone at Bath would be happy?

Decidedly NOT happy here.

It may have been a 4 points difference, but practically the whole second half was played in the Bath half. In fact Bath only showed any urgency when they went more than a penalty's worth behind.


I'm not trying to spread hate, I like Bath and I predicted them to win and as a resident of the city I hope they do well. I've gone to practically all the United fixture since I've moved here, but I find them one of the most frustrating sports teams to watch ever.

This was not a good game for either side. Both teams were stiff and not creative. Shame because the weather was perfect.

Earlier in the second half Myler should never have tried that cross field kick. Why risk kicking possession away when the team is moving forwards consistently and well. Bad error.
And worse, Barkley should never tried his silly little grubber for the same reason, Bath were moving forwards and it stopped the forward momentum.
These little decisions can make or break a close match. And almost did.

Cumbrian wrote:It may have been a 4 points difference, but practically the whole second half was played in the Bath half. In fact Bath only showed any urgency when they went more than a penalty's worth behind.


I'm not trying to spread hate, I like Bath and I predicted them to win and as a resident of the city I hope they do we. I've gone to practically all the United fixture since I've moved here, but I find them one of the most frustrating sports teams to watch ever.

So why use a term like "bitch-slapping" then? Totally disrespectful and clearly so wide of the mark I'm asking myself if you can add and subtract. If you want to use language like that, feel free, but don't expect to do it with impunity, if nothing else it makes you look ignorant.

Perhaps I used the term because I was attacked as a 'luddite' (incorrectly) for offering an opinion. But I'll admit that I used some provocative language and in hindsight I apologise for using it.

I'm a Luddite, which of course makes my presence here slightly perverse.

Night all, back tomorrow. Hopefully for slightly more entertaining fare.

Perhaps it was a pre-emptive strike then Cumbrian, as you were called a Luddite after you used that expression.

Two wrongs don't make a right though, and I'm sure Bathite will accept your apology and come back with one of his own.

Doc. Grey is about right, neither side looked "good" tonight, for me Bath are still putting way too much boot to ball, and there is a clear emphasis on boshing the ball up in midfield rather than trying to create space by beating defenders.

It's OK being organised and "heroic" in defense, but when you've got the ball in hand you still have to play heads-up rugby and look for the breaks and overlaps before lashing the leather of the the fricking pill.

I'm not expecting Bath to play in the time-honoured "Bath way" that's so old hat and tired it's not worth pursuing in the modern game, but it does look to me as though GG has very little trust in the squad he's inherited, or at least not enough to allow them any leeway in making their own decisions, they look almost Pavlovian in their response to receiving ball in their own half.

Ball? Our half? Have it!!

It's like that John Smith's advert with Peter Kay in it.

Listen I feel really stupid now and I really don't want to cause bad feeling, can we leave it at that?

LondonTiger wrote:I'm a Luddite, which of course makes my presence here slightly perverse.

Night all, back tomorrow. Hopefully for slightly more entertaining fare.

Night LT, given that Saints aren't playing again tomorrow, your last words are moot; unless another team decides to strangle the life out of a game that is...

Cumbrian wrote:Listen I feel really stupid now and I really don't want to cause bad feeling, can we leave it at that?

Yep, I'll apologise as well and we can all draw a line under it.

Let's hope for some better games tomorrow (although it's always easier to watch as a neutral)

Cumbrian wrote:Listen I feel really stupid now and I really don't want to cause bad feeling, can we leave it at that?

Been there, done that, so no harm done Cumbrian.

Worcester and Gloucester next up. Both teams have tinkered with their lineups and both have changed the owner of the 12 shirt. Worcester bring in Carlisle who has played most of his Rugby for Warriors at 10, while Glaws bring in tindall. Not sure what Nigel Davies is thinking of, but hey ho.

LondonTiger wrote:Worcester and Gloucester next up. Both teams have tinkered with their lineups and both have changed the owner of the 12 shirt. Worcester bring in Carlisle who has played most of his Rugby for Warriors at 10, while Glaws bring in tindall. Not sure what Nigel Davies is thinking of, but hey ho.

LT - Burns picked up a knock in the last game so Billy 36 has trained this week at FH (instead of IC) so Tindall has been moved in. Burns is on the bench though so it might all change.

LondonTiger wrote:Worcester and Gloucester next up. Both teams have tinkered with their lineups and both have changed the owner of the 12 shirt. Worcester bring in Carlisle who has played most of his Rugby for Warriors at 10, while Glaws bring in tindall. Not sure what Nigel Davies is thinking of, but hey ho.

Actually Tindall has been playing OK so far this season and with Ryan Mills out for 6 months our options at 12 are limited. Personally I'd have preferred to see Molenaar start as he's been playing well in the A league. Expect to see Burns come on around the 50 mins mark for Tindall and 36 shift back to his guaranteed spot.

I've got to say my predctions on Superbru has been very accurate thus far in the Aviva, hope it remains that way.

Anyone know how Foden is? Looked nasty at the time

From the Press Agency:

Northampton director of rugby Jim Mallinder is hopeful that England wing Ben Foden has not broken his leg after being carried off in the 18-14 win at Bath on Friday night.

Foden was hurt in an otherwise innocuous looking man-and-ball tackle by Bath's Tom Biggs six minutes into the second half of a closely fought Aviva Premiership match. Referee Andrew Small called for the TV match official to take a closer look at the incident but he confirmed there was no foul play.

That was no consolation to Foden, though, who was in severe pain as he was helped off the pitch. He later left the ground wearing a surgical boot. Mallinder said: "It's an ankle injury but I don't know a lot more about it than that. The doctor thinks that it's not broken. We're hopeful it's just a strain."

Dismal failure by andy Goode to do a Hernandez - especially silly when it was a penalty.

yappysnap wrote:Anyone know how Foden is? Looked nasty at the time

been reported that it isn't broken.

More attacking intent in the Warriors/Glaws match than last night - but ref seems to be favouring the defending team at the breakdowns, so teams struggling to keep possession.

6-3 to Glaws

Warriors so close to first try as their number 6 brought down inches from the line having made a good break from 40m out

Any guesses on the Tigers vs Sarries result? My head says "i havent a flipping clue", heart says Tigers by 7.

Well worked try by Glaws ruins my SprtsBru for this week