RaboP12 (Round 6): Leinster (30) vs Munster (21) k/o - 18:30 Sat, 6 October 2012 (Lansdowne Road)

by thebandwagonsociety Mon 01 Oct 2012, 4:08 pm

First topic message reminder :

Leinster & Munster coming off away losses (Connacht & Ospreys respectively).
How much will Leinster rebound?
Is this the usual slow start, or a malaise within the squad?

Squad updates/Teams to follow

Leinster Squad Update: 1 Oct 14:30
Rob Kearney (back) and Gordon D’Arcy (rib) are major doubts for the province and they will continue to be assessed ahead of Friday’s lunchtime team announcement. South African second row Quinn Roux suffered a shoulder injury and he is expected to miss this weekend’s derby match.
Meanwhile, Shane Jennings is expected to shake off the ill effects of an ankle injury which he sustained on the hour mark in Connacht, though it is likely to curtail his on-field involvement in training this week. It is hoped that club captain Leo Cullen (arm) will also return to the panel either this week or next, while Isaac Boss (arm) is getting closer to a return to action.

The province are expected to be boosted by the return of the likes of Jamie Heaslip, Kevin McLaughlin, Brian O’Driscoll, Eoin Reddan, Jonathan Sexton and Richardt Strauss to the panel this week.

There are two significant imminent landmarks for the province with Cian Healy, who turns 25 on Sunday, in line to make his 100th provincial appearance, while Naas number eight Heaslip’s next appearance will be his 150th.

Munster Squad Update: 1 October
Good news from the Munster camp is that the injuries picked up in the game on Saturday at the Liberty Stadium are not causing great concern.

Conor Murray required stitches to a cut above his eye but shortly after he returned it was thought to be in his best interests to replace him with Peter Stringer.
Stringer finished the game but suffered a calf injury and his progress will be monitored though the expectation is that both will be fit for consideration. The same applies to Marcus Horan who sustained a facial cut playing for Shannon.

Paul O'Connell (back), Johne Murphy (knee) and Luke O'Dea (ankle) are all expected to take a full part in training this week while Ian Nagle (shoulder) did likewise last week but will be given a week or so before being made available for selection and Cathal Sheridan (hand) and Ivan Dineen (groin) are also looking at a return in the same timeframe.

Mickado wrote:LEINSTER:

15: Ian Madigan
14: Andrew Conway
13: Brian O'Driscoll
12: Fergus McFadden
11: Isa Nacewa
10: Jonathan Sexton
9: Eoin Reddan

1: Heinke van der Merwe
2: Richardt Strauss
3: Mike Ross
4: Damian Browne
5: Devin Toner
6: Kevin McLaughlin
7: Shane Jennings
8: Jamie Heaslip CAPTAIN

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Sean Cronin
17: Jack McGrath
18: Jamie Hagan
19: Tom Denton
20: Jordi Murphy
21: John Cooney
22: Noel Reid
23: Fionn Carr

red_stag wrote:01: Dave Kilcoyne
02: Mike Sherry
03: BJ Botha
04: Donncha O'Callaghan
05: Donnacha Ryan
06: Dave O'Callaghan
07: Sean Dougall
08: Peter O'Mahony
09: Conor Murray
10: Ronan O'Gara
11: Simon Zebo
12: Casey Laulala
13: Keith Earls
14: Doug Howlett
15: Denis Hurley

16: Damien Varley
17: Wian du Preez
18: Stephen Archer
19: Billy Holland
20: Paddy Butler
21: Duncan Williams
22: Ian Keatley
23: James Downey

Post match report (Indo)
Having saddled themselves with the unwanted tag of league leaders in tries conceded, Leinster for a while looked like they might make serious headway in the other direction at Lansdowne Road last night. In the end they managed one more than they conceded, 3-2, and were happy enough to win, never mind miss out on the bonus.

The bad news is that their list of injured has grown even longer. Four players had to leave early from what was an entertaining contest for the huge crowd of 46,280 who fetched up on a perfect night for rugby. Kevin McLaughlin, Isa Nacewa, Brian O'Driscoll and Andrew Conway all took knocks. Conway's exit was via a stretcher, with a stinger, while McLaughlin will need a scan on a hyper-extended elbow, Nacewa is in trouble with a haematoma, and O'Driscoll sprained his ankle.

It remains to be seen who is fit for the opening defence of their Heineken Cup title, against Exeter in the RDS on Saturday, but as far as last night was concerned they were stuck with a back three of replacement scrumhalf John Cooney, outhalf Ian Madigan (in fairness he was selected at fullback) and Fionn Carr, who surely would have started if he hadn't missed a bad tackle in the five-try defeat in Galway last weekend.

Smelling the weakness in their opponents, Munster -- who came through the game in much better shape physically -- chased the home team down like men possessed. On 53 minutes they looked like they would be beaten out the gate when an outstanding try from O'Driscoll, converted from the touchline by the excellent Jonny Sexton, put Leinster 30-14 ahead.

Going down the final straight, however, it was a mad scramble. Conor Murray spread a bit of panic in the home crowd when, from a couple of metres out, he took advantage of empty corridor to dot the ball down. Replacement Ian Keatley nailed the conversion with a great kick, and Munster were on the charge. A couple of minutes later they looked on the verge of making it a one-point game.

Keith Earls was held up inches short, and when the ball squirted up referee Leighton Hodges said it was forward and Leinster escaped. Earls made another great burst heading into overtime, but by then the chances of two scores were non-existent.

When the game wasn't stopped for injuries it moved along at a cracking pace, helped by the service of man of the match Eoin Reddan -- his contribution to O'Driscoll's try was first class -- and, in the subtext of showing form for Ireland, Richardt Strauss made a compelling case. He looked like the player who took Leinster by storm when he arrived here three years ago. He did well to finger-tip-score the opening try, after just four minutes, but way better again in keeping the ball alive for the second, for Madigan.

"Yeah I thought he was really good," Joe Schmidt said. "There was one pinball effort where he took a ball behind him and was hit by two guys -- [Casey] Laulala was one of them, who tends not to leave a lot behind when he hits -- and ricocheted away in the lead-up to scoring [Madigan's try]. I thought he was very good."

It remains to be seen if Declan Kidney thinks the same. The Ireland coach will have been pleased with the form of Earls, and Simon Zebo, but it was hard for Munster to get a secure platform given the damage Mike Ross was doing to their scrum. Dave Kilcoyne, his opposite number, is a willing and aggressive ball carrier, but as you would expect he spent more time learning than lecturing in the tight. The ref did him for two penalties in a row -- one hit and one miss for Sexton -- and you felt for him.

Early on Munster looked like they had plenty to offer, with Peter O'Mahony responding within a couple of minutes of Strauss's try. By half-time Leinster had slipped out to 20-14. Ronan O'Gara kept Munster in touch with three penalties but then hit the post with a handy one early in the new half.

Straight from there, Leinster got motoring and hit their opponents with 10 points in four minutes -- first Sexton goaled from the touchline, and then O'Driscoll finished brilliantly after Fergus McFadden laid the groundwork through the middle, riding O'Gara's tackle, before great hands from Reddan kept it all going.

Rob Penney will be delighted with the way his team stuck to the task, but they badly need to get all their big players fit if their game is going to work. Schmidt, while wondering why so much trauma has landed at his door, will be glad that his team can generate this sort of momentum with so many players missing.

Scorers -- Leinster: R Strauss, I Madigan, B O'Driscoll try each; J Sexton 3 pens, 3 cons; Munster: P O'Mahony, C Murray try each; R O'Gara 3 pens; I Keatley con.

Leinster: I Madigan; A Conway (J Cooney 65), B O'Driscoll (N Reid 64), F McFadden, I Nacewa (F Carr 55); J Sexton, E Reddan; H van der Merwe, R Strauss (S Cronin 57), M Ross (J Hagan 65), D Browne (T Denton 73), D Toner, K McLaughlin (J Murphy 12), J Heaslip (capt), S Jennings.

Munster: D Hurley; D Howlett (capt), K Earls, C Laulala, S Zebo (J Downey 65); R O'Gara (I Keatley 60),C Murray; D Kilcoyne (W du Preez 57), M Sherry (D Varley 51 yc 54-64), BJ Botha, Donncha O'Callaghan (B Holland 49), D Ryan, Dave O'Callaghan (P Butler 70), P O'Mahony, S Dougall.

Referee: L Hodges (Wales)

by red_stag Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:13 pm

Howlett is the first back to captain Munster Rugby in the history of professional rugby. He is also our all time top try scorer in just 100 games. It used to be Anthony Foley but he had twice as many Munster appearances as Howlett.

by Mickado Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:19 pm

red_stag wrote:Howlett is the first back to captain Munster Rugby in the history of professional rugby. He is also our all time top try scorer in just 100 games. It used to be Anthony Foley but he had twice as many Munster appearances as Howlett.

Didn't ROG captain Munster in this fixture last year? Or do you mean first outside back?

by GunsGerms Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:20 pm

red_stag wrote:Howlett is the first back to captain Munster Rugby in the history of professional rugby. He is also our all time top try scorer in just 100 games. It used to be Anthony Foley but he had twice as many Munster appearances as Howlett.

Wha? O'Gara has captained Munster in the past.

by Sin é Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:21 pm

red_stag wrote:Howlett is the first back to captain Munster Rugby in the history of professional rugby. He is also our all time top try scorer in just 100 games. It used to be Anthony Foley but he had twice as many Munster appearances as Howlett.

Zebo is going to overtake that very quickly. So far.

Zebo: 27+8=15 tries
Earls:66+7=22.

by red_stag Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:21 pm

Howlett is our official club captain. ROG may have stepped in for a game when injury kept others out of the thing but he has never been Munsters official captain.

by red_stag Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:23 pm

Sin é wrote:
red_stag wrote:Howlett is the first back to captain Munster Rugby in the history of professional rugby. He is also our all time top try scorer in just 100 games. It used to be Anthony Foley but he had twice as many Munster appearances as Howlett.

Zebo is going to overtake that very quickly. So far.

Zebo: 27+8=15 tries
Earls:66+7=22.

Oh he will definitely but we play a more expansive game now than we did in 2008

by Mickado Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:24 pm

red_stag wrote:Howlett is our official club captain. ROG may have stepped in for a game when injury kept others out of the thing but he has never been Munsters official captain.

Ok, well then forgive me for saying that there's absolutely nothing remarkable about the stat you gave Laugh

by asoreleftshoulder Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:31 pm

Sin é wrote:
red_stag wrote:Howlett is the first back to captain Munster Rugby in the history of professional rugby. He is also our all time top try scorer in just 100 games. It used to be Anthony Foley but he had twice as many Munster appearances as Howlett.

Zebo is going to overtake that very quickly. So far.

Zebo: 27+8=15 tries
Earls:66+7=22.

That's pretty impressive,Zebo really seems to have come on this season.I wonder how much of it is down to Penney and how much is down to having toured NZ and seen just how good the best players in the world are.He surely had his eyes opened on that tour and seems to have added a new dimension to his game this season.If he can show he has improved his positional sense then he can really go a long way in the game.

by Kingshu Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:32 pm

one stat that may be intresting is Lions from Munster
Keith Wood: 1997, 2001
Rob Henderson: 2001
Ronan O'Gara: 2001, 2005, 2009
David Wallace: 2001, 2009
John Hayes: 2005, 2009
Donncha O'Callaghan: 2005, 2009
Paul O'Connell: 2005, 2009
Keith Earls: 2009

Just looking at when the Province provided players for their first tour.
2001 3 players
2005 3 players (remember only counting when they first tour)
2009 1 player

Does this reflect that the acamady either had a boom in 2001-2005, or was it a downturn from 2005-2009?

it will be intresting how many first time Lions come from Munster next year. is it a fair Measure of the Munster acamady?

by **rodders** Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:37 pm

It was Richard Wallace in 2001 wasn't it?

Paul Wallace in 1997. Keith Wood and Rob Henderson spent most of their careers at Harlequins and Wasps respectively didn't they?

by SecretFly Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:37 pm

Stop sitting on the fences, lads...
Which one, if there was no place for two.
I committed my eternal highly valued (and never listen to!!) reputation to choosing Wink

Come on, be men.

by **rodders** Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:38 pm

Howlett

by **rodders** Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:39 pm

no wait Nacewa

by **rodders** Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:40 pm

Howewa.

by SecretFly Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:40 pm

.............. okay...I'll let you all off the hook then............... chickens Wink

by SecretFly Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:41 pm

Thought you might have chose Wallace actually Rodders. Nobody wears a World War 1 bandage like he can.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:43 pm

rodders wrote:It was Richard Wallace in 2001 wasn't it?

Paul Wallace in 1997. Keith Wood and Rob Henderson spent most of their careers at Harlequins and Wasps respectively didn't they?

Richard Wallace is the eldest of the 3 Lions brothers. He toured in 1993.

Interesting family. Small fast winger, followed by big hard drinkin prop, followed by hybrid and superb athlete. Had the pace of Richard and the power of Paul.

by GunsGerms Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:44 pm

Nacewa is not a marquee player and therefore cheaper and better value. That sits better with me.

by asoreleftshoulder Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:46 pm

Kingshu wrote:one stat that may be intresting is Lions from Munster
Keith Wood: 1997, 2001
Rob Henderson: 2001
Ronan O'Gara: 2001, 2005, 2009
David Wallace: 2001, 2009
John Hayes: 2005, 2009
Donncha O'Callaghan: 2005, 2009
Paul O'Connell: 2005, 2009
Keith Earls: 2009

Just looking at when the Province provided players for their first tour.
2001 3 players
2005 3 players (remember only counting when they first tour)
2009 1 player

Does this reflect that the acamady either had a boom in 2001-2005, or was it a downturn from 2005-2009?

it will be intresting how many first time Lions come from Munster next year. is it a fair Measure of the Munster acamady?

The Lions tend to be elite players and so I don't think it's a fair reflection on an academy.These players are the most talented and would probably have still made it regardless of the academy.Imo an academies worth is more reflected by how many decent pros it turns out,making average talent into a good pro is harder than making top class talent into a top class pro.

by Kingshu Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:46 pm

rodders
What about if you had to add one to Ulster (or anyone else playing your team?)

I'd go for Nacewa, for wingers we're well served with Bowe, Trimble and Gilroy so Doug would make less of an impact.

Nacewa can play Fly-half, Fullback, Inside centre, Wing, and would be very usefull for us this season.

Instead of NoC in certain games we could play Nacewa, that surley would be more useful for us than having Doug on the wing.

by SecretFly Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:47 pm

A bargain basement answer Guns?? Most unseemly I think. "Nacewa - oh we'll be havin'im coz he'sin with the Cliff Richard CDs"

by red_stag Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:49 pm

Mick, I think its very remarkable in that it shows the esteem in which he is held.

We have had:

- Keith Wood
- Mick Galway
- Jim Williams
- Anthony Foley
- Paul O'Connell

Always forwards. That defines Munster. To pick an outside back shows how respected he is.

by **rodders** Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:49 pm

I agree with that Kingshu. Nacewa would be of more value to Ulster given his versatility.

Yer man Bowe does a grand job in the 14 jersey if I do say so myself Smile

by SecretFly Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:52 pm

Shows how respected he is..but also a hint of where Munster intend to go. New focus, new position of authority to underwrite it.

by red_stag Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:53 pm

SecretFly wrote:Shows how respected he is..but also a hint of where Munster intend to go. New focus, new position of authority to underwrite it.

Exactly. I think it is a very significant appointment and far from "unremarkable".

by **rodders** Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:57 pm

Yes but the Ospreys game showed the main flaw of having your captain on the wing. If the forwards are being mashed and there's no platform then the captain has no influence on the game.

by red_stag Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:59 pm

There are pros and cons to anything Rodders.

I think if we have got leaders in the pack then we can survive that.

You don't need to be captain to lead but you need to lead if you are the captain.

I think Dougie is a great leader in the team and yet in O'Connell we have a top pack leader too.

by ME-109 Fri 05 Oct 2012, 4:06 pm

After last weekend getting beaten up by the O's the return of O'Mahoney and Ryan is welcome but I think Leinster will do the same to us as the Ospreys did.

Leinster by 7+

by **rodders** Fri 05 Oct 2012, 4:12 pm

Yes but how much influence did Howlett have in terms of how Munster played, as a wing he will want his hands on the ball. Munster were getting smashed behing the gainline yet they kept trying to move the ball around. Howlett kept looking for the ball and taking contact but it was very ineffective against the Blitz defence.

Howlett has to take the blame for that along with ROG. If the leader was in the pack then they could have pulled rank and tightened things up, kicked more.

What happens when Paul O'Connell is back? He's still the talisman, is he going to stand there and let Howlett call plays that aren't working?

Who will Munster look to when things aren't going to plan? I suspect when he plays it will still be O'Connell. That will be the real test of Howletts captaincy.

by SecretFly Fri 05 Oct 2012, 4:31 pm

Well...you could speak about Howlett in terms of O'Driscoll and his management of the game when with Ireland and O'Connell is with the pack. O'Connell and O'Driscoll (and anyone else they both trust and who is up for it) kinda decide in unison (they even say so).... I don't think there is such a thing as an over-all boss in any side that has such high ranking players.

In many Munster games of the past it wasn't even Paul calling the shots, it was often very much his little sub-general behind him that manipulated the pack and deciding how far they pushed, in what direction and when he wanted the ball to be given to him to release his backs. The number of times I've sat back and enjoyed a Stringer show of shirt pulling and commanding and controlling bum slapping. People take the reins when they're in a position to.

When Paul comes back, he'll do his thing in as much as it is a thing agreed to in training.... no, he won't be waiting for orders from Howlett but he won't be calling all the shots either. I think it's clear that virtually all these new captains say the same thing - it's a name you get but you expect leaders throughout the side in real terms in any professional side.

by **rodders** Fri 05 Oct 2012, 4:53 pm

Yeah yeah stop being a killjoy fly, it's a Friday. There'll be trouble in paradise when POC returns mark my works boxing

.....

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Fri 05 Oct 2012, 4:59 pm

I found reading the teams so weird. Read the Leinster one first, saw Healy and Cullen missing and our bench and whispered munster should have this.

Then looked at munster with their loosehead, rog and no Downey (and lualala at 12) and thought that we could/should win this again.

Looking at packs; I think Leinster should have this one. Granted the munster second row is a good bit stronger, I think there is enough of a difference between the front and back rows in leinsters favour to give them the edge.
Our scrum should gain a bit more than parity and sherry isn't a great lineout thrower. I feel slightly confident about this one again.

by SecretFly Fri 05 Oct 2012, 5:04 pm

rodders wrote:Yeah yeah stop being a killjoy fly, it's a Friday. There'll be trouble in paradise when POC returns mark my works .....

I was just about to end my day on this here internet with a wish that you all have a good weekend - and more importantly - that we all see some great rugby this weekend.

I'm really looking forward to tonight because despite my aptitude for over-talk here there is nothing better for me than actually watching a game in progress rather than pontificating on one Wink

. Think it'll be a comfortable enough Ulster win but still hope Connacht make a game of it. Enjoy it, guys Wink

Killjoy out! Howlett, Howlett!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...ooh, I mean Nacelett, Nacelett!!!!!!!!!!!

by **profitius** Fri 05 Oct 2012, 5:09 pm

The Munster pack has made 6 changes from the Ospreys game. Its much closer to the strongest pack and will put it up to Leinsters pack.

by Rory_Gallagher Fri 05 Oct 2012, 6:13 pm

Another game I am very excited to watch. The player battles I will be looking out for mainly are:

Howlett vs Nacewa
O'Mahony vs Heaslip
Earls vs O'Driscoll
Murray vs Reddan
Dougall vs Jennings

by Sin é Fri 05 Oct 2012, 6:35 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Another game I am very excited to watch. The player battles I will be looking out for mainly are:

Howlett vs Nacewa
O'Mahony vs Heaslip
Earls vs O'Driscoll
Murray vs Reddan
Dougall vs Jennings

and

Zebo v Conway

by valjester Fri 05 Oct 2012, 7:26 pm

profitius wrote:The Munster pack has made 6 changes from the Ospreys game. Its much closer to the strongest pack and will put it up to Leinsters pack.

Not that it will make much difference with the 10. It will be interesting to see what it takes for Rog to be dropped, although there are rumours that Penney's hands are tied with regards to certain positions.

by **profitius** Fri 05 Oct 2012, 8:59 pm

Sin é wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Another game I am very excited to watch. The player battles I will be looking out for mainly are:

Howlett vs Nacewa
O'Mahony vs Heaslip
Earls vs O'Driscoll
Murray vs Reddan
Dougall vs Jennings

and

Zebo v Conway

DOC2 vs McLoughlin

by GunsGerms Sat 06 Oct 2012, 11:49 am

Just bumped into tommy Bowe in Dundrum. Jesus he's a good looking guy in the flesh. Can see why cari likes him.

by Gibson Sat 06 Oct 2012, 12:46 pm

Lives in Belfast and shops in Dundrum. Can't bate daul D4 shoppin. The cravats, shades, dubes and chino selections, are the best in the country roysh.

Good man Tommy. Coming down to dress himself proper and to see the Big Boys play, I assume.

Leinster by 15 tonight. And NO more injuries for either side. That would do.

by LeinsterFan4life Sat 06 Oct 2012, 3:48 pm

NSW waratahs are looking to lure BOD to the club, according to the daily telegraph

by GunsGerms Sat 06 Oct 2012, 4:44 pm

Cheika obviously. He may well go. In all fairness he has given so much to Irish rugby. More than any player ever if you ask me. Maybe he should go.

by LeinsterFan4life Sat 06 Oct 2012, 4:48 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Cheika obviously. He may well go. In all fairness he has given so much to Irish rugby. More than any player ever if you ask me. Maybe he should go.

Would they be able to afford the wages?

by Gibson Sat 06 Oct 2012, 4:52 pm

I agree Guns. The man owes us all nothing now. Has laid his mind, body & soul on the line for 13 years now. For Province, Country and the Lions. I think France would be a better fit for him though. More shekels and a better lifestyle too. IMO.

Both Ireland* & Leinster will dip when he goes. Irreplaceable.

*If we could possibly dip any further.

by Pot Hale Sat 06 Oct 2012, 6:09 pm

Jerry Flannery has become a real TG4 head - he's now doing analysis as gaeilge in live interviews.

by munkian Sat 06 Oct 2012, 6:11 pm

Stupid Irish Tv Licensing, can't watch this Doh

by Pot Hale Sat 06 Oct 2012, 6:18 pm

munkian wrote:Stupid Irish Tv Licensing, can't watch this

Is it different in Britain?

by Keesie_kee Sat 06 Oct 2012, 6:19 pm

Can anyone pm me a streaming link? As I can't watch in the uk Crying or Very sad

by munkian Sat 06 Oct 2012, 6:20 pm

Cant watch games on TG4 or RTE website anymore if you are outside of Ireland, the Mrs isn't happy. Can't get Setanta either since it was sold to Sky and Sky buried it.

by conorc123 Sat 06 Oct 2012, 6:21 pm

Could anyone please pm me a link to the match? Tg4 wont let me watch in Engerland Sad

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