Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[Diggers]

First topic message reminder :

Of course there are shades of grey but ultimately nobody can be sent to jail for saying they would like to kiddy fiddle but won't as it's illegal and cannot include consent by definition.
They go to jail when they break the law by looking at images or worse acts. So what do you do, change the laws ? Having an open debate won't change the laws, it will still come down to the same thing.
So whether they are deemed evil by society or not is ultimately fairly irrelevant as far as I can see. The end game remains the same.

[incontinentia]

mysti you were 95% sure about Jimmy Savile aswell. Like Savile, Fader is no longer here to defend himself but the evidence is quite damning.

maybe not the new sherlock holmes but certainly reminiscent of hercule poirot or jessica fletcher.

[super_realist]

Mac is more Graham Norton with a magnifying glass.

[barragan]

Sher-mac does have a good ring to it.
To my knowledge, at least one other ip match was made against Mav just after he was banned. He also claimed to have met Mav prior to joining and had quite an elaborate back story if i remember correctly.

[super_realist]

More like Miss Mac-ple.

[navyblueshorts]

...Like Savile, Fader is no longer here to defend himself but the evidence is quite damning...

A series of claims attempting to incriminate a dead man does not a criminal make.

Just out of interest (re. Fader/Mav), who here believes everything they read on t'internet?? The place is full of people acting out all sorts of imaginary personas. Use with caution!

[Diggers]

It doesn't make him a criminal as in he hasnt been convicted but it does make him a sick, twisted disgusting individual.
How many people need to give corroborating evidence before you will accept that Navy?

[navyblueshorts]

Dunno Diggers. I'm not going to advocate exonerating the man if it's true but I'm afraid I don't think as much of people who wait until someone is dead before they make accusations against them.
In addition, I think I need something from an independent witness (i.e. not a proposed victim) to think it's a done deal. I didn't see that documentary the other day so I might be missing something but where are all those independent witnesses who must have known and/or seen what was happening? Have there been any corroborating stories of that sort? Haven't been following all the prurient sh1t in the tabloids so I may have missed it...

[navyblueshorts]

Actually, I think I did see something about a cabbie who said he'd seen something in the back of his cab. Did he say anything? What a scumbag if true. And these other witnesses? I thought we were part of the vertebrate branch of life but where have their backbones been all this time? Was Saville part of some mafiosi sex ring with access to extreme threats of violence against people who might dob him in?

[Bob_the_Job]

It doesn't make him a criminal as in he hasnt been convicted but it does make him a sick, twisted disgusting individual....

... in your opinion. What concerns me is "trial by the media" - a media that actually has been held up to a reasonable standard and been found wanting on the integrity front, whereas the "evidence" in this case is yet to be tested to a reasonable standard. When it has been, then it's time for the pitch forks and torches.

[mystiroakey]

Just googled Saville and coleen nolen pops up saying that Saville asked her to his room at 14 but her sisters stopped her from going up there.

[navyblueshorts]

It doesn't make him a criminal as in he hasnt been convicted but it does make him a sick, twisted disgusting individual....

... in your opinion. What concerns me is "trial by the media" - a media that actually has been held up to a reasonable standard and been found wanting on the integrity front, whereas the "evidence" in this case is yet to be tested to a reasonable standard. When it has been, then it's time for the pitch forks and torches.

Exactly the point I'm trying (badly, obviously!) to make. Cheers Bob!

[mystiroakey]

BTW have you all not heard the romours about him before- I could have sworn there have been allegations made about him even since his fame on TV(fix it) but none stuck for lack of evidence- Am i imagining this, because everyone now keeps saying these women have waited untill he died..

[incontinentia]

How can mark bridger be convicted of murder if there's no body? Are they taking his word for it?

[Diggers]

What an utter crock. The media haven't made up the umpteen claims from the poor girls who suffered at his disgusting hands. He abused his position in the worst kind of way and I hope he is rotting on the worst kind of hell.
I don't know how he died but I hope it was as painful as possible.

[navyblueshorts]

I think the law has moved on somewhat since the defence of saying "If I murdered them, where's the body???"
If I was a betting man I'd suggest they had forensic evidence from Bridger's Land Rover, house etc. Probably other reason to think he's murdered her as well.

Don't think Keith Bennett has ever been found but I don't hear anyone saying Hindley and Brady were'nt done bang to rights for him as well as the others in that case.

[navyblueshorts]

Sorry Diggers but you're letting emotions get in the way of facts/evidence now. Just because the media may have accurately reported a story/stories someone told them doesn't make them fact. People make up stories and even claim they've committed a crime when they haven't pretty frequently.
No-one is saying his memory shouldn't reflect what he might have done. What they are saying is it takes more to prove a claim to such heinous goings on than reports in the media however much some would like to believe them.

[Diggers]

Navy, I think you are confusing this with scenarios where you have one against one. There comes a time IMO when sheer weight of evidence makes something obvious whether there is a trial or not which of course there won't be. In short, it's called common sense.
This is clearly such a case, you can believe what you choose to, I've read more than enough about this to be utterly convinced of what Saville was and to be suggest otherwise is an insult to the children he abused.

[incontinentia]

I think the law has moved on somewhat since the defence of saying "If I murdered them, where's the body???"
If I was a betting man I'd suggest they had forensic evidence from Bridger's Land Rover, house etc. Probably other reason to think he's murdered her as well.

To think but not to know. I'm sure there is a legal explanation, perhaps a confession is enough. Think the death penalty should be brought back for cases like this? If anyone deserved it its him.

[mystiroakey]

whats worse.

Saville the freaky peodo he is- or the people in charge that new about these allegations yet tried to cover them up and still alowed him to become this celebrated knighted person!!

The story about the girl that screamed about saville putting his arm upher jumper and was then put in solitude and told not to come out after she had stopped 'making stuff up' makes me ill.. I can remeber that sort of shut out behaviour from idiots in charge of kids when i was in juniour school!!

Thank goodness things have moved forward thats all i can say!

saville was a sicko granted- but he needed to be put away, or even made to get help by the people around him that knew about this from the off. Sadly alot of the blame cant just be put on saville here!!

BTW i attch no blame to the kids themselves- it does seem clear that many of them did speak out but were shut up !! i think the whole be seen and not heard was way to present back then

[Diggers]

Yes Mysti, one of the girls reward for speaking out against Saville was a spell in a padded isolation cell until she "saw sense". That was at a school he kindly gave his patronage to, for obvious reasons.

[navyblueshorts]

I think the law has moved on somewhat since the defence of saying "If I murdered them, where's the body???"
If I was a betting man I'd suggest they had forensic evidence from Bridger's Land Rover, house etc. Probably other reason to think he's murdered her as well.

To think but not to know. I'm sure there is a legal explanation, perhaps a confession is enough. Think the death penalty should be brought back for cases like this? If anyone deserved it its him.

OK, if you insist. I know the law has moved on but I'm not a lawyer so I don't know the specifics. As for death penalty, don't be daft. If the miscarriages of the past don't tell us anything about the stupidity of such a sentence I don't know what will.

Diggers

It used to be common sense to think the World was flat. FWIW, I think Saville probably was what is being claimed but that doesn't mean we should discard the standards which we should be applying to the standard of 'evidence' used to hang him does it?

[Diggers]

If there isn't going to be a trial...which there isn't...them I'm afraid that's exactly what we do. We look at the evidence presented to us and we make an educated decision as to what went on. Being dead doesn't wipe the slate clean and give you immunity.
Court is not the only place people are judged. It happens every day in lots of situations and I don't see a problem with taking information from the media when it's clearly overwhelmingly pointing toward one conclusion.

[incontinentia]

Navy

with respect I think there is a slight double standard there. You want evidence in the case of Savile but not the most important piece of evidence in a murder case, namely a body.

The death penalty thing was a question, as most people i'v spoken to are saying Bridger should be tortured,executed etc. Personally I think this is an emotional response and not what should happen in civilised society. Although if guilty he deserves whatever 'punishment' he will undoubtedly receive on a daily basis in the prison showers.

[mystiroakey]

No death penalties for me..

Good topic though...

[navyblueshorts]

Navy

with respect I think there is a slight double standard there. You want evidence in the case of Savile but not the most important piece of evidence in a murder case, namely a body.

The death penalty thing was a question, as most people i'v spoken to are saying Bridger should be tortured,executed etc. Personally I think this is an emotional response and not what should happen in civilised society. Although if guilty he deserves whatever 'punishment' he will undoubtedly receive on a daily basis in the prison showers.

Don't be ridiculous. There's no double standard. Despite a body being useful in a murder trial (), there have been plenty of people convicted of a murder without one. It's not double standards, it's fact.
Your position on summary/lynch-mob justice isn't really tenable outside the pages of the right-wing tabloids either is it?

[Bob_the_Job]

For support of NBS assertion - see HERE and for an actual example, see HERE

(For those too lazy to read... "Abolition of "no body, no murder" - The rule was finally abolished for practical purposes in the UK in 1954". Good to see the V2 board members always argue from a position of current and well informed knowledge )

[incontinentia]

Thanks bob, so it seems a murder conviction can be based on circumstantial evidence. I would have thought this wasn't ideal but I guess the lawmakers know best.

[super_realist]

I would imagine there is evidence forensic or otherwise which links the accused with the victim to which we are not privy.

[McLaren]

incon

I doubt it is circumstantial, but lets not think about it.

[navyblueshorts]

Ouch!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/19863795

Got to make your eyes water a bit....

[Roller_Coaster]

yarg!

No rugby for me thanks. At least the balls I lose due to a slice are easily replaceable!

[Roller_Coaster]

In other "anything goes" issues...

Anyone watching that 120,000ft freefall/parachute/utter madness jump? Speed should go through the sound barrier (at that altitude this is expected to be 690 mph).

www.redbullstratos.com

Same bloke as completed the freefall trip across the English channel recently with a plank strapped to his back.Mental as anything (and I don't mean the band charged with crafting "live it up" from the 80's)

[super_realist]

by the way, what happened to those tatty munchers who appeared (and disappeared) around Ryder Cup?

Just another Mav nom de plume?

[1GrumpyGolfer]

Cue the refrain of Paul Wood has onlygot one ball.....

Fair play to him for carrying on.

[navyblueshorts]

In other "anything goes" issues...

Anyone watching that 120,000ft freefall/parachute/utter madness jump? Speed should go through the sound barrier (at that altitude this is expected to be 690 mph).

www.redbullstratos.com

Same bloke as completed the freefall trip across the English channel recently with a plank strapped to his back.Mental as anything (and I don't mean the band charged with crafting "live it up" from the 80's)

Not watching it, no. Interested though. What a ride (and what a view) if he comes down safely . See they're running a 20 second delay on the video feed in case of....mishaps. Wonder what it feels like having your bodily fluids boil insde you?

[McLaren]

I can’t believe a seal would do this to a dog. If only the death penalty was available for such crimes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-19882985

poor little pooch…….


Wait! It was in Aberdeen.

Super, I hope this wasn’t you best friend?

[incontinentia]

12 weeks in young offenders institute for social media joke.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/09/matthew-woods-joking-april-jones-facebook-sickipedia?newsfeed=true

A bad act no doubt but is this really necessary?

[navyblueshorts]

Inclined to agree Incontinence. As far as I can see, in no way should this kind of thing be a criminal offence.
Pathetic, childish, sad, insensitive etc etc, yes. Criminal, no. Waste of my money prosecuting this sort of thing.

[hend085]

I can’t believe a seal would do this to a dog. If only the death penalty was available for such crimes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-19882985

poor little pooch…….


Wait! It was in Aberdeen.

Super, I hope this wasn’t you best friend?

Bit strange there was signs warning dogs and not people!

[dynamark]

I know an old lady who swallowed a horse.
No doubt a whale will eat the seal.

[Doon the Water]

I would back my Lab against a seal any day! perhaps even a shark.

BTW any reflection from SR on Chris Doaks fine win on the under Tour.
Could this be the new Shane Lowry in the making.

[Diggers]

Didnt a lady diver get killed by a leopard seal a few years ago, think she was working on the rigs.
Nasty creatures seals, in fact very much like wild dogs, I believe their genetic make up is very similar to a dog.

[super_realist]

Could do with a seal cull actually. Far too many. I'll volunteer with a big club.

Speaking of fat blubberous blobs, Chris Doak could do with a harpoon in him too. Disgrace.

[Diggers]

Danny goes in the semi of the bake off...controversial all male final next week.
I'm actually meant to be having beers with a mate next week but will have to cancel or mrs diggs will kill me.

[JAS]

Could do with a seal cull actually. Far too many. I'll volunteer with a big club.

Speaking of fat blubberous blobs, Chris Doak could do with a harpoon in him too. Disgrace.

Ha ha, I remember being taken to task by my workmates as a youngster when I point blank refused to contribute to a Save our Seals collection.
"Why the hell not you tight git?"
"Because I fish for salmon & sea troot and they've got enough predators taking more than their fare share, the last thing the salmon population needs is a population explosion of them ugly greedy bar stewards!!"
"You selfish git!!"

30 years on...Club 'em I say

[JAS]

I see broad agreement has been reached on the nature of the Independence Referendum for Scotland. Is there anybody out there that actually thinks it's still a good idea?? Much as I'm a patriotic Jock I wish the whole idea would just slip away backwards quietly!!

[super_realist]

I see broad agreement has been reached on the nature of the Independence Referendum for Scotland. Is there anybody out there that actually thinks it's still a good idea?? Much as I'm a patriotic Jock I wish the whole idea would just slip away backwards quietly!!

Me too JAS, but I think there is a sizeable population of poorly educated plebs who shall cut their nose off to spite their face simply to give the English the middle finger.

[JAS]

I think what I'm least looking forward to is Soapy Salmond tugging on the emotive 700 years since Bannockburn. Utterly cringeworthy!!

[super_realist]

Me too JAS, he's a heart attack in waiting though so there's every chance he won't see 2014. Hopefully the Glasgow plastic games will be a failure too.

[SmithersJones]

Has Salmond considered that an independent Scotland may not be allowed to join the EU? Given its parlous economic state, the last thing Europe needs is another net beneficiary. There's currently talk of them getting rid of the UK anyway, so there'd pretty much definitely be no safety net for Scotland if it did break away.

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