Heineken Cup Round 2: Glasgow Warriors vs Ulster Rugby, Friday 19th October 8.00p.m. Scotstoun Stadium

First topic message reminder :

So Glasgow Warriors open their home account in the Heineken Cup at their new home, Scotstoun, against the form team in Europe, Ulster Rugby.

Will the injuries suffered in their opening matches of the season be too much for them or will the steely defense that served them well all last season and much of the game against Saints prevail?

Or will the much vaunted and dangerous team that Ulster have been slowly evolving into over the past few years be too much for the Glasgow outfit.

Team news and pre-match build up to follow but it already seems like this could be one of the top encounters of the weekend with Scotstoun close to a sellout 10,000....

GLASGOW TEAM

15 Stuart Hogg
14 Byron McGuigan
13 Peter Murchie
12 Peter Horne
11 Alex Dunbar
10 Ruaridh Jackson
9 Henry Pyrgos

1 Ryan Grant
2 Dougie Hall
3 Mike Cusack
4 Tom Ryder
5 Al Kellock (CAPTAIN)
6 Josh Strauss
7 Chris Fusaro
8 Ryan Wilson

SUBSTITUTES 16 Finlay Gillies 17 Ofa Fainga’anuku 18 Gordon Reid 19 Tim Swinson 20 Rob Harley 21 John Barclay 22 Scott Wight 23 Niko Matawalu

ULSTER TEAM

(15-9): J Payne; T Bowe, D Cave, P Wallace, A Trimble; P Jackson, R Pienaar;

(1-8): T Court, R Best, J Afoa, J Muller (c), D Tuohy, I Henderson, C Henry, N Williams;

Replacements (16-23): R Herring, C Black, A Macklin, L Stevenson, M McComish, P Marshall, L Marshall, C Gilroy.

Standulstermen wrote:Only one team going to win that game in the 2nd half. Massive respect to Glasgow for their efforts in adversity but they weren't in i the 2nd half. Fair play to ulster for squeezing them out but another error strewn performance. Tommy was Really solid I thought as well but Chris Henry was, by some distance, the best player on show out there

I've been saying this for the past two years

I was singing his praises last year and wondering why he didn't own the Ireland 7 jersey. Now he gets his chance with O'Brien out.

Morgannwg wrote:I was singing his praises last year and wondering why he didn't own the Ireland 7 jersey. Now he gets his chance with O'Brien out.

You would think that is the case but this is Kidney we are talking about. I'll wait to see what he does and what excuse he makes for doing it.

POM to 7 is still more likely for Ireland IMO

Do you think so Stand. He hasn't been setting the world alight this season

No, O'Mahony isn't in form and Henry is, but O'Mahony is almost in the shirt already. He's in from last season so he'll get given the chance. Thats the way it works in Ireland for better or worse. Once you're in the set-up, its hard to play your way out if you're poor for your province. Sometimes even if you're poor for Ireland.

I really hope Chris Henry does get his chance. South Africa and Argentina are going to be proper arm wrestles. He could do well in those games and he deserves some recognition for his form.

Warriors did well up front - massive forward effort - Kellock immense. With a scratch bunch of backs I did not expect much more - and now 2 more injuries to Horne and McGuigan - utter baws ! Heino over now so we may as well just try to feck up the others and concentrate on the Rabo esp when Bawbag in Chief takes all our players for the AI slaughter.

Hoggy looked sharp and great to see Harley back. Jackson plainly not fit and faded as game wore on. Strauss could be our best ever forward signing. Bizarre, flakey refereeing but I suppose he was French.
Wee Dunkie looked more mobile as he went up the stairs at HT and DTH was mobile too.

steady 21st, Strauss may well prove to be an excellent sigining but he will have to do a huge amount to pull ahead of Mike Cusack as Glasgow's best signing. The tight head was immense last night (as was Grant). It was only when changes were made in the front row that Ulster found any relief at the scrum.

Jackson still looks off form, Wight was much more influential when he came on, including a pin point kick for Nico's try. With so many interntational players now in the squad it will be interesting to see how Toonie manages to keep the majority happy and get the team back to winning ways in the RABO

Next game is away to Treviso, a tough test of the team, or whats left of it, and the coaching staff.

Thought Cusack and Grant were particularly good last night. Grant has come a long way in a short time. Best I've seen Kellock play for a while, Strauss was excellent (why the silly substitution again on 50 minutes??) and young Pyrgos has had a pretty effective last couple of games.

Real shame about Horne getting injured, Glasgow's (and now Scotland's in my view) horrible luck continues.

Good effort, Ulster were just too good on the day.

sensisball wrote:steady 21st, Strauss may well prove to be an excellent sigining but he will have to do a huge amount to pull ahead of Mike Cusack as Glasgow's best signing. The tight head was immense last night (as was Grant). It was only when changes were made in the front row that Ulster found any relief at the scrum.

Jackson still looks off form, Wight was much more influential when he came on, including a pin point kick for Nico's try. With so many interntational players now in the squad it will be interesting to see how Toonie manages to keep the majority happy and get the team back to winning ways in the RABO

Next game is away to Treviso, a tough test of the team, or whats left of it, and the coaching staff.

Yes, totally agree about Cusack, this is what you call a great signing, this guy can scrummage all day and his work around the pitch is improving too. I have yet to see Glasgow going backward at scrum time this season.

for Mark Anscombe
for the Glasgow fans

Agree on Henry deserving a chance in the AIs with SOB out but that Kidney will almost certainly go for POM.

Realistically unless there are further backrow injuries Henry is unlikely to see much game time in the Autumn. All he can do is keep performing and hopefully he'll get his chance.

He's really getting up there with Ferris, Best and Muller in terms of becoming a talisman and leader for Ulster.

Surely POM will not get the 7 shirt for Ireland with SOB out. To put it simply, POM has clearly been focusing on the number 8 position and has not played 7 at all this season. Henry has been the most consistent 7 in Ireland so far.

Rava

I didnt say POM deserved the shirt but going by Kidneys previous selections i think he will get it. Form isnt an issue that troubles our Declan too much. Neither is the fact that POM is playing 8 i suspect.

Standulstermen wrote:Rava

I didnt say POM deserved the shirt but going by Kidneys previous selections i think he will get it. Form isnt an issue that troubles our Declan too much. Neither is the fact that POM is playing 8 i suspect.

+ 1

At this point it wouldn't surprise me./

I don't think the fact Henry is 27 should be a problem either. Didn't David Wallace only really break into the Ireland team around that age, and make himself known as a truly world class player? We enjoyed his rugby for a long time.

No Henry's age shouldn't be an issue at all. Ideally he'd be 22 but he isn't but some players peak a bit later. Rory Best was the same I think as was Wallace.

He's been a revelation over the past 2 seasons and has plenty of years ahead of him.

POM will play despite the fact he is playing pretty poorly this season and I thought was pretty poor away in New Zealand. He doesn't have the physicality, he doesn't carry well enough, and he isn't good enough at the breakdown. He will one day, he is still very young and he is a talented player though certainly not to the extent you might believe from some Munster fans.

My worry with Henry is that he is Ulster's Shane Jennings, an excellent club player but just not quite good enough for the international stage. He deserves a chance though. I'd be surprised if Kidney gave it to him. Darren Cave was the form 13 in Ireland last season and instead of giving him a shot in New Zealand he played Earls, and then brought Paddy Wallace off the beach to play in the third test. If the IRFU had any vision and any leadership they would have acted well before now, but they haven't and repeated their 'we'll never do that again' mistake of awarding Kidney a new contract on the eve of the World Cup just as they did with O'Sullivan. We'll be humbled in the autumn internationals, struggle in the Six Nations, and then Kidney might be replaced with his successor given just two years to build for another World Cup. It's beyond a joke.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:POM will play despite the fact he is playing pretty poorly this season and I thought was pretty poor away in New Zealand. He doesn't have the physicality, he doesn't carry well enough, and he isn't good enough at the breakdown. He will one day, he is still very young and he is a talented player though certainly not to the extent you might believe from some Munster fans.

My worry with Henry is that he is Ulster's Shane Jennings, an excellent club player but just not quite good enough for the international stage. He deserves a chance though. I'd be surprised if Kidney gave it to him. Darren Cave was the form 13 in Ireland last season and instead of giving him a shot in New Zealand he played Earls, and then brought Paddy Wallace off the beach to play in the third test. If the IRFU had any vision and any leadership they would have acted well before now, but they haven't and repeated their 'we'll never do that again' mistake of awarding Kidney a new contract on the eve of the World Cup just as they did with O'Sullivan. We'll be humbled in the autumn internationals, struggle in the Six Nations, and then Kidney might be replaced with his successor given just two years to build for another World Cup. It's beyond a joke.

Struck the nail on the head. Absolutely agree 100%

Yeah I'd sort of like to argue with that Hookster but there's a lot of truth there.

I think POM will come good but he's not the finished article yet. I think he's a great talent but people shouldn't be afraid to critique his performances and you've summed up some of his shortcomings pretty well there.

Jennings is playing pretty well too, since you brought his name up, and on current form he and Henry would be ahead of POM. A word for Muldoon too.

Form doesn't mean much to the IRFU and Kidney though and its hard to feel positive about the state of the National side right now.

MrsP wrote:Thanks for the summary Grey.

You aren't heading over for the double header in December are you? Too early for a Christmas trip home?

Want to head back over. However, this is currently under intense negotiations. Very hard to predict at the moment, and I would call the discussions amicable, but tense. Could go either way. Five way negotiations are always difficult. The five key parties include my wife, my boys, their school, work and myself.

Hoping for the best, and I think the matches will be good fun.

POM has bulked up a fair bit for this season, which makes me think he is working on his physicality, and focusing on 8.

To repeat what rodders has said, Jennings has also been playing some outstanding rugby. He and Henry are the form 7s in Ireland. However, I think Henry is just playing out of his skin, and deserves his chance. A left-right partnership between Henry and SOB in the future could be incredible.

Think Glasgow need to look at starting Wight a bit more often now. I've been inclined to support Jackson and was pleased to see the kicking duties taken off him but he was fairly woeful again last night. Wight put in two kicks that I don't think Jackson would be capable of or would even think of.

Jackson is a confidence type player (if such a beast exists ?!) and when things start to go wrong he gets worse and worse. I really don't think he was fit last night and Wight should have started. He (Jacko) is a good passer and has the eye for a break but agree his tactical kicking from hand was poor esp as the game wore on. Having said that Peter Horne goal kicking was wayward last night too - 1 from 4 at this level is not good enough. The injury list grows and grows !

Considering considering, (a) Ulster are THE form team in Europe at the moment, (b) the seriously depleted back-line, (c) the abysmal conditions then Glasgow's performance had a lot of positives. The pack were tremendous, no other word really. OK we struggled to create anything behind the scrum but Wight looks promising and when we have a full squad then we can judge Toonie. I think it will surprise some of us, give him time.
On another matter at 54 years I have just survived 80 mins at no 8 and no1 son made a very promising debut, some of his tackles were Harleyesque, don't you love this game?

No, Clermont or Toulon are the form teams in Europe Jimbo my friend. We've yet to be really tested... we've not had the difficult run of fixtures you might think.

Glasgow at home first up was tough opener, but thats a game we should be winning every time. Ospreys are perennial contenders and getting the win in Wales was a massive result, but they were simply diabolical in that game! As were we. It was an awful match. Next up was Munster at Ravenhill; a good game, but Munster are in transition and not the force they were. Then we had three easy fixtures; against an increasingly weak Cardiff side, Connacht at home and a travel sick Castres. Glasgow away was our first real test, which we passed satisfactorily.

Now I'm not taking anything away from Ulster. We have done very well to win all seven of our games and we are ONE of the form sides in Europe, certainly looking very much like the form side in the Pro12 as reflected by the table right now. But I think Clermont or Toulon would have absolutely walked those seven games and in much more style. If you watched them dismantle a very good Exeter side this evening... that was scary.

Ulster have shown that kind of form in glimpses. Against Cardiff with the seven tries we scored, against Castres in the first twenty- but not consistently. There's a lot more to come from Ulster, I'd say we are in third gear and we'll need to go up the gears if we're going to take on those French giants.

What I'm most pleased about is that thats our attitude. The message coming from the coach and the senior players is we'll keep working to improve our game, not rest on our laurels. Because with respect to the teams we've faced so far, there are sides who are operating on a different level and we need to improve if our paths cross.

jimbopip wrote:Considering considering, (a) Ulster are THE form team in Europe at the moment, (b) the seriously depleted back-line, (c) the abysmal conditions then Glasgow's performance had a lot of positives. The pack were tremendous, no other word really. OK we struggled to create anything behind the scrum but Wight looks promising and when we have a full squad then we can judge Toonie. I think it will surprise some of us, give him time.
On another matter at 54 years I have just survived 80 mins at no 8 and no1 son made a very promising debut, some of his tackles were Harleyesque, don't you love this game?

glasgow are doing well considering all the injuries they have. it really shows the dept they have in the squad now. you now have a good chance to compete for one of them four play off spots in the pro 12

I think to a certain extent you beat what's in front of you. Had we played Clermont or Toulon in France we would have struggled massively but had we played them at ravenhill I think we would have won comfortably too.

We played Cardiff when they were 3rd in the league I think. We played munster as equals with two wins each (in fact we were behind). Yes, we haven't been ripping it up but we didn't have the conditions Clermont had or Montpelier understrength and at home. New coach, returning players and still undefeated. Notch is right to be wary but with the dragons, zebre and Edinburgh up next we have lots to be positive about.

Yeah we have a run of winnable games. Dragons at Rodney Parade are NOT to be underestimated but they are eminently beatable. We should also be targeting wins against Edinburgh and Zebre. We then have an exceptionally tough game away to Treviso, but November is a month where we have the chance to build some momentum.

But December... December is a really tough month for us;

Scarlets away (Pro12)
Saints away (HC)
Saints at home (HC)
Leinster at home (Pro12)
Munster away (Pro12)

Five very, very tough fixtures literally back to back. After that, on the 1st of January, we'll know where we stand and what is reasonable to expect from this Ulster team.

Of those games o would suggest treviso away or scarlets away (5 days before saints at franklins gardens) look very loseable... I think looking at December if we were to lose all the pro12 and win the two HEC I would be content.

You guys are so modest.

Confident Morgan, just confident. I still think scarlets wil do us given their focus will most probably now revert to the pro12 but we are in a position now were our pro12 side (sans Irish internationals) might still include muller, Afoa, Payne, Gilroy, Jackson, Pienaar, Williams, Wilson, Henry, marshalls etc. I wouldn't expect all of them to play that scarlets game but we might see the bigger names turn out against treviso then.

Notch, good comments about Clermont and Toulon but I still think Standulstermen is closer to reality seven out of seven is not to be sniffed at.You do have a challenging December and Scarlets could see a weakened side losing, which if you trip up against Saints means lots of pressure against your Celtic cousins. Five wins and it's a very Happy New Year but five losses are equally possible.How significant will the AI's be?

Hard to tell, going to have to wait and see how many players are called up for Ireland.

Standulstermen wrote:I think to a certain extent you beat what's in front of you. Had we played Clermont or Toulon in France we would have struggled massively but had we played them at ravenhill I think we would have won comfortably too.

We played Cardiff when they were 3rd in the league I think. We played munster as equals with two wins each (in fact we were behind). Yes, we haven't been ripping it up but we didn't have the conditions Clermont had or Montpelier understrength and at home. New coach, returning players and still undefeated. Notch is right to be wary but with the dragons, zebre and Edinburgh up next we have lots to be positive about.

+1

Johann Muller out for 8 weeks with a hand injury which required surgery - bollix.

Artful_Dodger wrote:Johann Muller out for 8 weeks with a hand injury which required surgery - bollix.

I don't think it'll be a massive issue. Stevenson is playing very well and Henderson might well push for a second row place. We'd miss his leadership for sure though

He could be struggling to make either game against Northampton Saints in December. Thats a big loss. If it is 8 weeks exactly, he'll be fit and available for the first of our two interpros over Christmas.

We can navigate the Pro12 in his absence but he'll be very much missed at Franklins Gardens.

He's one of the best lineout jumpers in the world. He will be a massive lass no matter how well Stevenson is playing

If Stevenson and Tuohy perform well we still have two good second rows but Muller is one of the guys in the team who bring qualities no-one else can, like Afoa or Pienaar.

The Ravens lost 34-28 in Bristol. Losing bonus point gained while Bristol didn't get a TBP.

Muller injured for the matches against Saints? That's a shame and bad for Ulster. He is a terrific leader, the type all teams need. A guy like that can be the difference between a win and a loss in tight games. He also provides a lot of the toughness which is needed against Saints.

Evening all.

Muller is a big loss for sure. I can't see him involved in the HEC games unless his recovery is extremely fast. 8 weeks is the day after the second match with the Saints and he won't have been able to do much/any ball work from now to then. Big ask to head straight into a Heino game.

Still I am not so despondent about his absence as I would have been this time last year. Last season we were pretty dire at times when he wasn't there but we seem a bit more resilliant this year.

Grey, hope you win the negotiations. Let me know if you are planning to head over to Ravenhill.

Rava wrote:The Ravens lost 34-28 in Bristol. Losing bonus point gained while Bristol didn't get a TBP.

Rava.

Looks like we got 2 BPs from that game. Tries from Cochrane, Simpson and Roger Wilson got 2!!!

Jeebus 8 weeks! Not the great man!

Thank flip Stevenson, Touhy and young Henderson have been in such good form, albeit the latter at 6. Muller is a big loss but there's enough quality and experience there across the park to steer us through.

So Wilson and Diack both played 80 minutes. Thats good news. Two tries for Wilson so he's answering Nick Williams in the best way possible.
Only down point seems to be with Michael Allen. He was replaced in the first half so I am assuming he got injured again or aggravated the previous one.

Oh and we also have Neil McCombe performing well in the second row as well.

MrsP wrote:Evening all.

Muller is a big loss for sure.

Of course he is a big loss. He is 6 ft 7 in. 18 stone. Get it? Little joke there.......

MrsP wrote:Grey, hope you win the negotiations. Let me know if you are planning to head over to Ravenhill.

Going to see Heineken Cup Ravenhill would be terrific. I am trying to line up coverage at work and also trying to see if I can liberate my sons from school for a few extra days. At least one of the instructors makes it sound as if the boys' classmates will be taught the meaning of life whist they would be away. Will certainly let you know.

Anyone able to shed light on why we didnt sign Sean Dougal out of our academy? Seems very capable down at Munster. Was he a late bloomer? Or did we just not recognize his ability at the time?

He spent 2 years at Rotherham so I suppose his talents are developing since he left us. Might have been injured whilst in our Academy too?

I heard Dougal picked up a few long term injuries. He might have also been a late developer or maybe just didn't have the self confidence. Hes Munsters first choice 7 now I'd say which is good going.

Also I think pollock was with Ulster when Dougal was there but I'm not 100% sure.

While at the Ulster acamady he dislocated both shoulders, think in the 2 years there only played 2 games for the Ravens, guess with that he may have only been offered a development contract or Ulster were worried he was injury prone. Either he was allowed to go to Rotherham, or they offered a better deal. Hes developed and come back strong, but we'll see if this season takes it's toll, in regards to injury or not.