Heineken Cup Round 2: Glasgow Warriors vs Ulster Rugby, Friday 19th October 8.00p.m. Scotstoun Stadium

First topic message reminder :

So Glasgow Warriors open their home account in the Heineken Cup at their new home, Scotstoun, against the form team in Europe, Ulster Rugby.

Will the injuries suffered in their opening matches of the season be too much for them or will the steely defense that served them well all last season and much of the game against Saints prevail?

Or will the much vaunted and dangerous team that Ulster have been slowly evolving into over the past few years be too much for the Glasgow outfit.

Team news and pre-match build up to follow but it already seems like this could be one of the top encounters of the weekend with Scotstoun close to a sellout 10,000....

GLASGOW TEAM

15 Stuart Hogg
14 Byron McGuigan
13 Peter Murchie
12 Peter Horne
11 Alex Dunbar
10 Ruaridh Jackson
9 Henry Pyrgos

1 Ryan Grant
2 Dougie Hall
3 Mike Cusack
4 Tom Ryder
5 Al Kellock (CAPTAIN)
6 Josh Strauss
7 Chris Fusaro
8 Ryan Wilson

SUBSTITUTES 16 Finlay Gillies 17 Ofa Fainga’anuku 18 Gordon Reid 19 Tim Swinson 20 Rob Harley 21 John Barclay 22 Scott Wight 23 Niko Matawalu

ULSTER TEAM

(15-9): J Payne; T Bowe, D Cave, P Wallace, A Trimble; P Jackson, R Pienaar;

(1-8): T Court, R Best, J Afoa, J Muller (c), D Tuohy, I Henderson, C Henry, N Williams;

Replacements (16-23): R Herring, C Black, A Macklin, L Stevenson, M McComish, P Marshall, L Marshall, C Gilroy.

Mrs P - every sane person thought it was fair enough to take the penalty while Court was in the bin. It was the earlier penalty on 45min that the commentators questioned.

I have no doubt Anscombe realises the value of bonus points, and against Castres he undoubdtedly told Ulster to score first after half time which they did. Compounding that score with a swift extra three effectively secured the result of the game and left the rest of the half to get the bonus try.

If Ulster hadn't taken those points and were only eleven points ahead after their second try with a man in the bin, Castres could have kicked goals of their own and got back in the game. As it was the 14 point margin forced them to go for tries by kicking for the corners instead.

It was 100% the right decision to secure the game. Ulster had three or four subsequent lineouts in the Castres 22 - none of which led to a try either, so that completely vindicated the decision. If there was any blame to be apportioned for almost missing the bonus point it should be on Anscombe - for hooking Paul Marshall off too early. Once he went off for the jet lagged Pienaar, Ulster lost their attacking momentum. However Pienaar woke up just in time to secure the bonus try at the end so Anscombe could breathe a hugh sigh of relief.

Pienaar says since he has returned he has noticed a harder work ethic on and off the pitch.

Didn't see or notice the Seymour "tip tackle" at all, and was watching the game pretty intently on TV. Oh well - big loss that would be.

Glasgow are going to need to play very strongly as a team to win this game. Individually and collectively Ulster have been better this season, so I think Glasgow will need Ulster to misfire and have an off day, as well as needing a bit more fortune than last weekend. Big ask, hope they can pull it off.

The Great Aukster wrote:Mrs P - every sane person thought it was fair enough to take the penalty while Court was in the bin. It was the earlier penalty on 45min that the commentators questioned.

I have no doubt Anscombe realises the value of bonus points, and against Castres he undoubdtedly told Ulster to score first after half time which they did. Compounding that score with a swift extra three effectively secured the result of the game and left the rest of the half to get the bonus try.

If Ulster hadn't taken those points and were only eleven points ahead after their second try with a man in the bin, Castres could have kicked goals of their own and got back in the game. As it was the 14 point margin forced them to go for tries by kicking for the corners instead.

It was 100% the right decision to secure the game. Ulster had three or four subsequent lineouts in the Castres 22 - none of which led to a try either, so that completely vindicated the decision. If there was any blame to be apportioned for almost missing the bonus point it should be on Anscombe - for hooking Paul Marshall off too early. Once he went off for the jet lagged Pienaar, Ulster lost their attacking momentum. However Pienaar woke up just in time to secure the bonus try at the end so Anscombe could breathe a hugh sigh of relief.

Yeah but surely we were further ahead than that at 45 mins. We had scored our thrid try by then so it would have been 28 v 10, no?

Anyway, it all worked out okay in the end thanks to Castre wanting to play after the clock went red!

Shocking arrogance by Ulster fans on this thread! lets take this outside

Can't see a Glasgow win this time round. Too many injuries to cope with the form that Ulster are in at the moment. I just hope we don't get anymore.

Scot Abroad wrote:Shocking arrogance by Ulster fans on this thread! lets take this outside

Can't see a Glasgow win this time round. Too many injuries to cope with the form that Ulster are in at the moment. I just hope we don't get anymore.

No one has even started the,

"You're going down!!!!!"

bant yet!

I think a full strength Glasgow would have me optimistic about a win, but worried about what Glasgow can bring especially to the breakdown. An understrength Glasgow have me rather optimistic of a win, but worried it all seems to good to be true.

I thought our backrow lacked its usual carrying power on Friday (with Ferris and Williams out, what do you expect?) and I'll feel a lot better if those two are available. You need a couple of wins on the road to win a pool so this is a massive, massive game for Ulster. Miss this chance and it will feel like a massive setback, especially with our next game at Franklins Gardens. We must go into that one top of the pool.

But looking at the Glasgow injury list all the players that worry me the most- Barclay, Fusaro, Wilson, Kellock, Cusack- are all still available. To be frank, if we can get the edge in 2 out of 3 of the lineout, breakdown and scrum I expect us to have too much. My concern is they'll compromise the quality of possession we get and we will panic. We've dominated possession in games and not scored because teams have managed to spoil the quality of our ball and we've gotten loose in attack.

In short, a must-win game for Ulster and a should win game for Ulster. But Glasgow in no way should be taken lightly. Could be a lot closer than people think.

Schlong has a broken cheekbone so he is out. Hoggy and Jacko may, I repeat may, make it !

Awh poor Schlong. Does he need someone to kiss it better?

Excuse me!!!!!!!

Just which wing are you supporting here???????

Ah MrsP leave off Cari!

She's Welsh, she's allowed to fancy whoever she wants!

Why can't I have both?!

But if I really have to choose...it's gotta be Tommy. Sorry Schlonga.

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Schlong has a broken cheekbone so he is out. Hoggy and Jacko may, I repeat may, make it !

Personally I think if those two make it you're grand. Maybe a wee bit of inexperience outside the 10 shirt but 1-10 is a grand team and then you have a major talent in Hogg. Nope, not falling into this Glasgow mind trick at all. Injury crisis- what injury crisis? They're playing it up just like we did with Ferris before the QF at Thomond Park.

Their key men are; Cusack, Kellock, Barclay, Cusiter, Jackson, Morrison and Hogg. There's a few out aye, but enough will be around to ensure they are no easybeats. It's if Scott Wight or Peter Horne start at 10 we'll be happier- first time this season a side will field a less experienced 10 than us!

Tom Court made the comment Glasgow have the best scrum we've played against this season. Kellock is a lineout colossus and they have a production line of unheralded backrows that make our life hell at the breakdown. If you think this is a foregone conclusion you need your head checked... I'm sure we're thinking that it'll be incredibly hard albeit very winnable. Thats why I'm backing us to win, for now!

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:Ah MrsP leave off Cari!

She's Welsh, she's allowed to fancy whoever she wants!

Here go and have a word with yourself. You've gone native! We've got a Colonel Kurtz situation on our hands here- you better be sporting white and red come Friday night!

Notch wrote:

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Schlong has a broken cheekbone so he is out. Hoggy and Jacko may, I repeat may, make it !

Personally I think if those two make it you're grand. Maybe a wee bit of inexperience outside the 10 shirt but 1-10 is a grand team and then you have a major talent in Hogg. Nope, not falling into this Glasgow mind trick at all. Injury crisis- what injury crisis? They're playing it up just like we did with Ferris before the QF at Thomond Park.

Their key men are; Cusack, Kellock, Barclay, Cusiter, Jackson, Morrison and Hogg. There's a few out aye, but enough will be around to ensure they are no easybeats. It's if Scott Wight or Peter Horne start at 10 we'll be happier- first time this season a side will field a less experienced 10 than us!

Tom Court made the comment Glasgow have the best scrum we've played against this season. Kellock is a lineout colossus and they have a production line of unheralded backrows that make our life hell at the breakdown. If you think this is a foregone conclusion you need your head checked... I'm sure we're thinking that it'll be incredibly hard albeit very winnable. Thats why I'm backing us to win, for now!

Notch unfortunately for Glasgow both Cusiter and Morrison are still out and Hogg is only 2 half games into his recovery from ankle surgery. So yes from 1-10 they look good but 11-23 they are relatively weak and will be out on their feet after 65 minutes I think....

And yes I will be, the support for Glasgow simply comes from the fact that they give me a free season pass to all their games/all the Scottish internationals this year!!!

Only 500 tickets left and the weather on Friday will be dry with no wind (thanks Met Office) - so a sell out of 10000 - excellent. Now we need to find a team !

Cari wrote:Why can't I have both?!

But if I really have to choose...it's gotta be Tommy. Sorry Schlonga.

That's more like it girl!

UMIG,

Will you be wearing the (new)furry suit on Friday night?

Fraid not MrsP, trapped nerve in my back means I've been benched for this game! But that means I don't have to hold it in when Ulster score!!!

Great news indeed!



Not about the bad back of course!

It would be a bit difficult to explain why Clyde was getting so excited about the away team scoring!

UMIG, did you used to post on the old 606?

Indeed! And the back is recovering too so all is good.

I did get a few dirty looks before when I was sitting with the Warriors players at previous Ulster games and I had berated the referee for not giving an Ulster penalty!! But now they just laugh at me!

Occasionally I did, but mostly it's just been on v2...

I thought I remembered a lad from down that way but he had a very different user name.

A musician I think?

Not me I'm afraid! Have only really been posting since I arrived in the wild West End of Glasgow and had the same username on the old 606 so sorry!

No problem. Just don't imagine there are hundreds of Ulster fans down your way is all!

Glasgow team up but cannot be settled until Seymour's citation hearing in Dublin today. He'll be starting on the wing if he's not banned.

15 Stuart Hogg

14 Byron McGuigan *
13 Peter Murchie
12 Peter Horne
11 Alex Dunbar

10 Ruaridh Jackson
9 Henry Pyrgos

1 Ryan Grant
2 Dougie Hall
3 Mike Cusack
4 Tom Ryder
5 Al Kellock (CAPTAIN)
6 Josh Strauss
7 Chris Fusaro
8 Ryan Wilson

SUBSTITUTES

16 Finlay Gillies
17 Ofa Fainga’anuku
18 Gordon Reid
19 Tim Swinson
20 Rob Harley *
21 John Barclay
22 Scott Wight
23 Niko Matawalu *

* If Tommy Seymour is cleared to play, he will come into the starting XV at 14. Byron McGuigan will go onto the bench at 23, with Sean Kennedy coming in at 21. John Barclay will move to 20, with Rob Harley and Niko Matawalu dropping out of the match-day squad.

Cannot make up my mind about this. Our set piece will be fine and Cusack v Afoa will be an enormous clash. If Horne has his kicking boots, we might have a chance. Dunbar on the wing seems to be a bit of a waste. If Seymour is not fit, then Byron McGuigan will be covering Tommy Bowe.

Yikes. I'd rather have Barry McGuigan.

What's with the 6-2 forwards-backs split on the bench if Seymour isn't fit? Thought that was shown up last weekend. Else we are just too short of backs in the Heino squad, in which case why did we not include Troy Nathan but did put in 4 hookers?

I really do feel sorry for Glasgow, their injury list contains arguably their best players :

DTH
Cusiter
Weir
Welsh
Harley
Rory Lamont
Sean Lamont

and they might be losing Seymore to the citing commisoner. With these players and home advantage I would have fancied Glasgow to win this one but under these conditions and with the ammount of injured 1st team starters it's looking ominous.

Ulster Team:

(15-9): J Payne; T Bowe, D Cave, P Wallace, A Trimble; P Jackson, R Pienaar;
(1-8): T Court, R Best, J Afoa, J Muller (c), D Tuohy, I Henderson, C Henry, N Williams;
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, C Black, A Macklin, L Stevenson, M McComish, P Marshall, L Marshall, C Gilroy.

Ferris missing out. Still injured? Great for young Henderson! Harsh on Paul Marshall. But he is great off the bench!

Will Paddy Jackson keep the kicking duties?

I had a feeling Ferris wasn't going to make it when I saw that clip on TV the other night. Williams return is welcome and Pienaar starting is as expected. I should hope Jackson continues to kick.
That team is now becoming well settled and should be too strong for the injury ravaged Weegies.

Pleased to see Henderson still in the side. He has a long, long way to go before we can talk about him in a green shirt, but he was very impressive last week. I still want to see his play in second row rather than the backrow but then I am just picky. Andrew Trimble has really stepped it up this season. His form isn't mind blowing but I know a lot of people though that Gilroy would take his place with ease but I don't see it happening at the moment. It's good to have three good players for two places.

A few things to note:
1) Still few backs on the Glasgow bench (assuming Seymour can't play), despite the experience of last week.
2) Dunbar on the wing and Murchie in the centre, surely keeping Dunbar where he was and moving Murchie to the wing would have been less disruptive. Does Toony think Murchie is now a better outside centre than Dunbar?
3) Why isn't Paris called up to fill in the vacant wing spot? he's registered as an HC winger
4) Why will Matawalu be dropped from the bench and replaced by Kennedy if Seymour is fit. Choose a 9 on the bench and stick with it.
5) I wonder what Troy Nathan thinks

Think these injuries for Glasgow are overstated. They still have a perfectly good side, and most importantly the players who are key to their lineout, breakdown and scrum are all present and correct. Yes they lack a bit of threat in the outside backs without the Lamont brothers, their best 9 is missing and their defensive lynchpin in midfield is out. But they still have plenty to trouble us.

My big thing is how the Castres game will go. Not that I'm taking this one for granted, Ulster need to improve this week to win, but thats a hard one to call.

Notch wrote:Think these injuries for Glasgow are overstated. They still have a perfectly good side, and most importantly the players who are key to their lineout, breakdown and scrum are all present and correct. Yes they lack a bit of threat in the outside backs without the Lamont brothers, their best 9 is missing and their defensive lynchpin in midfield is out. But they still have plenty to trouble us.

sorry, Notch, but that's complete bull, there's nothing overstated about these injuries - why don't you pick an Ulster side incl replacements assuming everyone is available and then remove your best 8 players from the lineup and compare? Don't think you'd be too happy

clivemcl wrote:Ulster Team:

(15-9): J Payne; T Bowe, D Cave, P Wallace, A Trimble; P Jackson, R Pienaar;
(1-8): T Court, R Best, J Afoa, J Muller (c), D Tuohy, I Henderson, C Henry, N Williams;
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, C Black, A Macklin, L Stevenson, M McComish, P Marshall, L Marshall, C Gilroy.

. Looks weak

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Notch wrote:Think these injuries for Glasgow are overstated. They still have a perfectly good side, and most importantly the players who are key to their lineout, breakdown and scrum are all present and correct. Yes they lack a bit of threat in the outside backs without the Lamont brothers, their best 9 is missing and their defensive lynchpin in midfield is out. But they still have plenty to trouble us.

sorry, Notch, but that's complete bull, there's nothing overstated about these injuries - why don't you pick an Ulster side incl replacements assuming everyone is available and then remove your best 8 players from the lineup and compare? Don't think you'd be too happy

+1

Cusiter, DTH, Weir, Hogg, Rory Lamont, Sean Lamont, Harley, Welsh and Macarthur I'm pretty sure would be considered by many to be Glasgow's best players. Especially Cusiter and DTH.

The 6-2 bench split suggests to me that Toonie is too stubbourn to admit his stupidity last week - not a promising feature in a coach.

Yea Notch, your talking rubbish, Ulster are going to smash them to pieces!

I'm going to say six tries.

Notch does have a point though. Most of those injuries are backs. Our set-piece should function and compete well, its a strong pack after all. However, we have a lot of backs injured, some just coming back from injury and others being played out of position.

I think its fair to say that if Glasgow beats Ulster tomorrow, both sets of fans will be surprised.

funnyExiledScot wrote:The 6-2 bench split suggests to me that Toonie is too stubbourn to admit his stupidity last week - not a promising feature in a coach.

Every fit and available back in the registered Heineken Cup squad is in the 23

Pat_Mustard wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:The 6-2 bench split suggests to me that Toonie is too stubbourn to admit his stupidity last week - not a promising feature in a coach.

Every fit and available back in the registered Heineken Cup squad is in the 23

Almost right, Matawalu or Kennedy will not feature in the 23, and will be the only available back not to do so.

Right enough, I suppose Matawalu is there as wing cover so they could have had both of them on the bench

This 6-2 split is absolutely ridiculous. The whole point of the rule change to have 8 on the bench was to allow the replacement of a complete front row, a flanker, a lock and a specialist 10 plus 2 utility backs. There's just no need for it.

George, you can put whoever you want on the bench. Only thing is that you need a full front row.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Notch wrote:Think these injuries for Glasgow are overstated. They still have a perfectly good side, and most importantly the players who are key to their lineout, breakdown and scrum are all present and correct. Yes they lack a bit of threat in the outside backs without the Lamont brothers, their best 9 is missing and their defensive lynchpin in midfield is out. But they still have plenty to trouble us.

sorry, Notch, but that's complete bull, there's nothing overstated about these injuries - why don't you pick an Ulster side incl replacements assuming everyone is available and then remove your best 8 players from the lineup and compare? Don't think you'd be too happy

+1

Cusiter, DTH, Weir, Hogg, Rory Lamont, Sean Lamont, Harley, Welsh and Macarthur I'm pretty sure would be considered by many to be Glasgow's best players. Especially Cusiter and DTH.

I have to agree.

Notch - I know that it looks like Glasgow are getting their excuses in early, but if you stripped out eight of the equivalent Ulstermen (Pienaar, Afoa, Court and Jackson in particular), then you'll be starting to get a sense of how bad this is for the Weege.

Hopefully teams are announced soon, so we can really start looking forward to this and disecting teams

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Notch wrote:Think these injuries for Glasgow are overstated. They still have a perfectly good side, and most importantly the players who are key to their lineout, breakdown and scrum are all present and correct. Yes they lack a bit of threat in the outside backs without the Lamont brothers, their best 9 is missing and their defensive lynchpin in midfield is out. But they still have plenty to trouble us.

sorry, Notch, but that's complete bull, there's nothing overstated about these injuries - why don't you pick an Ulster side incl replacements assuming everyone is available and then remove your best 8 players from the lineup and compare? Don't think you'd be too happy

Well, see right there- 8 best players. Thats definitely overstating it. These aren't Glasgows 8 best players. The guy I worry about the most in this game is Chris Fusaro. If Cusiter was starting he'd probably be the one who scared me the most, but its Fusaro who is the big threat.

I was very optimistic when I heard how much Glasgow were struggling with injuries, then i realised they still have their scrummaging tighthead, their lineout general, their best outhalf and both their breakdown spoilers. Most of their injuries are concentrated in the backs, and the major concern is whether they can defend as well should we get the ball out wide. But for me, I don't even care who is in shirts 11-15 for Glasgow. I barely glance at it. Thats not where they will win this game if they win it.

Where are Ulster most vulnerable this season? The breakdown. How have Ulster beaten teams this season when not playing as fluently as they can? By getting the edge in the set piece. What happens if Ulster get spoilt at the breakdown? We get frustrated and our attacking play becomes lateral. What happens if we lose the set piece battle? We rush things and give away turnovers. You beat our pack, you beat us. And Glasgows pack is looking perfectly hale and healthy, by and large.

Our defence is stringent, the best in the league. Glasgow were never going to win this by attacking through the backs. If they win it, they'll win it with spoiling rugby and solid set piece. They still have the pack to do it. Maybe Cusiter and Weir would be the best halfbacks for the gameplan they need, but the two lads in there are quality. Jackson is the better all round 10.

Aye, most of the players who worry me are still in that team to be honest. Injuries will handicap them, but they aren't out of the fight.

Kingshu wrote:Hopefully teams are announced soon, so we can really start looking forward to this and disecting teams

They have been.

Just waiting to hear if Seymour is playing or not.

Notch -

You don't think DTH (Glasgow's top try scorer), Sean Lamont, Rory Lamont, and arguably the 3 of the 1st choice front row forwards (Lowe, Welsh & MacArthur) are key players?

Sure Glasgow will still be strong at the breakdown adn the set piece but they have practically none of their best finishers.

Or if they will win by kicking points as you have suggested you dont think they'll struggle without their better kicking fly half (Weir)?

Notch is the most pessimistic Ulster supporter I know. Glass is always half empty.