The Dew Drop Inn Virtual La Botticella Pub, Rome.

First topic message reminder :

Hello and welcome to the Virtual Rugby Pub, a place where you can come in for a sly beverage and discuss whatever's on your mind, or just eavesdrop on the regulars if you fancy a break from all the rugby chat.

The pub has made its way to the historical city of Rome, the owner Giiovanni, is a Canadian-Italian, and welcomes all after a great day of rugby.

The only rule in this pub is one of mutual respect for everyone in it, oh and no tampering with the pictures of Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Dane Coles, Aaron Jarvis, Samson Lee and Schalk Brits up on the wall. Erm, actually there is a second rule. No elephants, unless they're Effervescing - we can't be barring a Chiefs fan



Previous Pub:
https://www.606v2.com/t36353-the-dew-drop-inn-virtual-jackie-horner-tavern-near-kings-park-durban

None, Stag. I'll keep an eye on the website. There was really weird use of commas in an article recently, but I suppose that's a minor thing (even if it still looks unprofessional).

Interesting debate about Bent. Personally, I think the Strauss selection is far worse!

Ah thats nitpicky. Things like forgetting the names of your own players and spelling the name of the opposition wrong* are big issues.

*From time to time Scarlets, Dragons and Cardiff get called by their town names Llanelli, Newport and Cardiff by Irish media.

EDIT: I notice I just called Cardiff Blues by their town name myself.

MBTGOG wrote:Interesting debate about Bent. Personally, I think the Strauss selection is far worse!

I actually agree with you on that.

Rava wrote:

red_stag wrote:

rodders wrote:Rather than fearing these sides, or giving them too much respect, we should acknowledge (but not accept) their superiority, try to understand the factors for it, which factors we can control, and at all levels try to close the gap as quickly as possible.

Indeed. For me its amazing to see the way that the provinces look at the big sides in Europe and then set out to emulate and beat them. Munster becoming more like Tigers after the 2002 HEC Final defeat is an example.

However we don't see the national teams (apart from Wales to some extent) try to emulate the Southern nations.

Sure we (Ulster) tried to emulate the Saffers .....

No wonder they froze in the final, Look at the Stormers, the Bulls the Sharks, the Boks in the RWC last year.

Our style will get you to the finals, but the trophy cabinet will remain bare.

Will Greenwood, Shaggy and Scott Quinell call the regions by their town names all the time on Sky sports.

I'm waiting for the day someone calls Ulster, "Belfast"

Quinnell does it???Oh that it not good PR for the regions.

You can sneer at Ospreys all you want but I never hear of anyone mix up their name. They have completely thrown aside the Swansea-Neath thing.

Biltong wrote:
Our style will get you to the finals, but the trophy cabinet will remain bare.

Thats why we're booting out all our Saffers* and replacing them with Kiwis.... ....

* Muller and Pienar are Ulstermen

I disagree that it's nitpicking, Stag. If I started putting commas in the wrong, place it would look pretty, shoddy.

its Not a bIg Thing to PositIon a few Commas out of whacK

rodders wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:
To answer your question, yes we do put the SANZAR nations and their players on a pedastal. I think there are a number of reasons for this, but one of the main ones I think is this. When a 18/19 year old does well in Super Rugby or even the ITM or Currie Cup, they seem to be very ready to blood them into the national team. Generally it is one player coming into a settled, top quality side and they flourish immediately, which gives us the perception of them being a teenage world beater and the next 'best player in the world'.

John Afoa gave an interesting insight into this last season when assessing the academy/schools set up in Ireland.

He said how that in NZ there is a very close relationship with the schools system and the professional clubs/franchises. The school boys are on serious training programs and getting coached professionally and when the cream come into the academys they are ready physically and skills wise to step into top level rugby and are waiting for a chance.

By contrast Afoa said that young players in Ireland aren't doing proper training or getting top coaching until they leave school and get into the provincial academies and at that point they are still a few years of being ready to play 1st team senior rugby.

That's not totally true. The schools with the most money do very well, MCB, Belfast Inst and Campbell for instance. They train obsessively, running drills at lunchtime, compulsory weight sessions and the like before school and all that kind of thing. Their players are bigger, stronger and dominate games by sheer physicality. That said I know for a fact that several years ago Brian McLaughlin started to look outside the big Belfast schools for players who had skills but maybe not necessarily the physical attributes at under 18 level. I still go most St Patrick days to see the school cup final and watch kids with poor basic skills run straight lines bashing into one another. It's dire stuff. Conversely, the less physical but more gifted players take slightly longer to develop in the academy as it takes longer to get them up to the required physical level. But what Afoa said is true in one regard- we have too many players that are not ready for consistent provincial level until mid to late 20s.

Lucky

'Jevon Groves replaces, last week’s captain, Lewis Evans who is out with a groin injury. Andy Tuilagi who was named as the Amlin Challenge Cup’s, Man of the Match last weekend keeps his place and remains in the centre.'

I think that's pretty poor. The problem is that the author is the woman I've been emailing!

rodders wrote:Will Greenwood, Shaggy and Scott Quinell call the regions by their town names all the time on Sky sports.

This is what I don't understand from Welsh detractors of the regions and the Rabo. In the early 90s I remember Welsh rugby players so in love with the club system that they went to play rugby league. RUGBY LEAGUE. I had to write that in caps I am so revolted. A game for plebeians. Next they'll be sending us down the mines.

red_stag wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:Interesting debate about Bent. Personally, I think the Strauss selection is far worse!

I actually agree with you on that.

Listen lads, get your facts right. O'straussghnessy is as Irish is [insert racial sterotype here]. Here's an interesting fact, his father was Fianna Fail TD for Donegal South West in the 1970s. For God's sake, he fixed the roads. I voted for the father, you'll vote for the son. He fixed the roads!

Actually yea thats pretty bad Lucky Maybe thats just how people speak in Newport?

Heard an interesting conversation about how poor sports journalists are becoming on the radio. Apparently, its getting too conversational and is just opinion rather than clever literary pieces.

Hook don't shoot the messenger man! Take it up with big John!

Stag the Ospreys managed to do it because the originally used both Town names in their name - Neath-Swansey Ospreys.

As you have a double barrel location there it makes sense to call them by the franchise name. Same for Dragons, no one calls them Newport-Gwent.

By contrast Llanelli rolls of the tongue as easily as Scarlets and Blues is just a poor and fairly ambigious name and Cardiff makes more logical sense to the outsider.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

red_stag wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:Interesting debate about Bent. Personally, I think the Strauss selection is far worse!

I actually agree with you on that.

Listen lads, get your facts right. O'straussghnessy is as Irish is [insert racial sterotype here]. Here's an interesting fact, his father was Fianna Fail TD for Donegal South West in the 1970s. For God's sake, he fixed the roads. I voted for the father, you'll vote for the son. He fixed the roads!

Is this a running gag from something. I've seen it before.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:
In the early 90s I remember Welsh rugby players so in love with the club system that they went to play rugby league. RUGBY LEAGUE. I had to write that in caps I am so revolted. A game for plebeians. Next they'll be sending us down the mines.

You auld bollix ye, I once played RL or should I say proper rugby..... where's my hard hat.....

Stag, its from Savage Eye. They do an outstanding bit on the northern accent. I recommend it to all
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVdi_-jvB0I

I'm distressed by the racism displayed by Irish fans in here. These pesky immigrants, coming in and taking our jobs. The fact of the matter is this- they are doing the jobs that born and bred Irishmen don't want to do, that they feel they are too good for. Well these foreigners make an invaluable contribution to the Irish economy and it's time we faced facts on the subject. If Irish citizens or us British subjects feel we are too good for such manual labour as propping then we have to get them from somewhere.

rodders wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:
In the early 90s I remember Welsh rugby players so in love with the club system that they went to play rugby league. RUGBY LEAGUE. I had to write that in caps I am so revolted. A game for plebeians. Next they'll be sending us down the mines.

You auld bollix ye, I once played RL or should I say proper rugby..... where's my hard hat.....

I think rugby league is where Irish props learnt to scrummage.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

rodders wrote:Will Greenwood, Shaggy and Scott Quinell call the regions by their town names all the time on Sky sports.

This is what I don't understand from Welsh detractors of the regions and the Rabo. In the early 90s I remember Welsh rugby players so in love with the club system that they went to play rugby league. RUGBY LEAGUE. I had to write that in caps I am so revolted. A game for plebeians. Next they'll be sending us down the mines.

That isn't why they went. League was where the money was back then. I struggle to believe you think disillusionment with the club system is why Welsh players left. It was also professional earlier. I guess you're on the wum.

I don't know why people run league down so much though. It's a much better game than people give it credit for.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

prop_lyd wrote:I wonder if I had an Irish gram whether I'd have received a call up....

Careful, Prop. Remember what happened to Matt Stevens.

Ah but I can actually prop!!

Hookisms - this is nothing to do with racism.

Thats a very serious accusation to level at someone and I'd ask to either retract it or else delete it even if you think we are racist.

I have no issue with Bent playing for Ireland. My issue is that is he coming from obscruity to the national team.

I have an issue with the length of residency. 3 seasons is ridiculous. Thats about half as long as you need to be here to even be deemed Irish by naturalisation.

Above all else I have an issue with the Project Player system - intentionally looking for non Irish players and promising them the chance of an international cap.

Strauss will be the first Project Player to be capped. As the face of this system he will cop some flak.

Do not label us as racist which is a personal insult to us.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:If Irish citizens or us British subjects feel we are too good for such manual labour as propping then we have to get them from somewhere.

I take issue with that. I'm a 10st lacto-vegetarian, with a bad back, dodgy knees and below average hand eye coordination. I'm not shirking my propping responsibilities out of choice.

Stag, Notch and Rava are just being lazy though.....

red_stag wrote:Hookisms - this is nothing to do with racism.

Thats a very serious accusation to level at someone and I'd ask to either retract it or else delete it even if you think we are racist.

I have no issue with Bent playing for Ireland. My issue is that is he coming from obscruity to the national team.

I have an issue with the length of residency. 3 seasons is ridiculous. Thats about half as long as you need to be here to even be deemed Irish by naturalisation.

Above all else I have an issue with the Project Player system - intentionally looking for non Irish players and promising them the chance of an international cap.

Strauss will be the first Project Player to be capped. As the face of this system he will cop some flak.

Do not label us as racist which is a personal insult to us.

Jesus Stag, if you't can tell when a person is having a right good old fashioned WUM there's no hope for you. My tone should have been wafting from your computer screen like a honking scratch and sniff.

rodders wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:If Irish citizens or us British subjects feel we are too good for such manual labour as propping then we have to get them from somewhere.

I take issue with that. I'm a 10st lacto-vegetarian, with a bad back, dodgy knees and below average hand eye coordination. I'm not shirking my propping responsibilities out of choice.

Stag, Notch and Rava are just being lazy though.....

And your dog ate your homework too I take it.

RL players don't do homework hookie

Sorry Hooky. Just this is not the first time such a debate has ended in people just claiming your racist if you have concerns.

red_stag wrote:Sorry Hooky. Just this is not the first time such a debate has ended in people just claiming your racist if you have concerns.

I don't think you are racist in any way, you turnip eating gobshoite.

red_stag wrote:Sorry Hooky. Just this is not the first time such a debate has ended in people just claiming your racist if you have concerns.

No problem Stag. I was comparing the uproar over these players with the people who ring up Stephen Nolan or your equivalent down south and complain about immigrants taking their jobs. Its flippant and I'm WUMming. I'll give you a summation. Let's call this caller John, a prop from Belfast forced to emigrate to England to get work in his chosen field of propping and scrumaging because plebs from the colonies are taking them. He is forced to go from English job to English job, and forced to go to the press to raise this serious issue that he is as good as anyone back home in Ireland. But the truth is, he isn't very good (and he's an arse). That's the long and short of it. Bent and his cohorts are the rugby equivalent of Romanian cleaners and Polish farm workers. People complain they are here taking Irish prop positions, until we realise there aren't Irish props to fill the positions. Unless you count Jamie Hagan. Let me tell you a secret. No one counts Hagan, not even his mum. I don't like it, but it is what it is.

Anyway, who would want to be a prop? Why do you think Rob Kearney plays as far away from the action as he can? He has that face to protect. They'll be now more Powerade ads for him with cauliflour ears.

red_stag wrote:Actually yea thats pretty bad Lucky Maybe thats just how people speak in Newport?

Heard an interesting conversation about how poor sports journalists are becoming on the radio. Apparently, its getting too conversational and is just opinion rather than clever literary pieces.

It's better than How most people in Newport speak! Lucky/rev, I've got hartridge at home sat, know much about then?

I do not thing you are racist either you lovely orangeman.*

*Fake tan (not politics)

red_stag wrote:I do not thing you are racist either you lovely orangeman.*

*Fake tan (not politics)

Comparing us to Gavin Henson? You've hit an all time low.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

red_stag wrote:Sorry Hooky. Just this is not the first time such a debate has ended in people just claiming your racist if you have concerns.

No problem Stag. I was comparing the uproar over these players with the people who ring up Stephen Nolan or your equivalent down south and complain about immigrants taking their jobs.

Now there's a point....has Kidney and Feek had a look at Nolan? He looks like he could do a job at TH .

Just Rava

rodders wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

red_stag wrote:Sorry Hooky. Just this is not the first time such a debate has ended in people just claiming your racist if you have concerns.

No problem Stag. I was comparing the uproar over these players with the people who ring up Stephen Nolan or your equivalent down south and complain about immigrants taking their jobs.

Now there's a point....has Kidney and Feek had a look at Nolan? He looks like he could do a job at TH .

Well he is thinner and more mobile than Mike Ross.

... Andress thinks so anyways....

prop_lyd wrote:

red_stag wrote:Actually yea thats pretty bad Lucky Maybe thats just how people speak in Newport?

Heard an interesting conversation about how poor sports journalists are becoming on the radio. Apparently, its getting too conversational and is just opinion rather than clever literary pieces.

It's better than How most people in Newport speak! Lucky/rev, I've got hartridge at home sat, know much about then?

No, but knowing Hartridge/Ringland as I do, bring your boxing gloves just in case.

prop_lyd wrote:

red_stag wrote:Actually yea thats pretty bad Lucky Maybe thats just how people speak in Newport?

Heard an interesting conversation about how poor sports journalists are becoming on the radio. Apparently, its getting too conversational and is just opinion rather than clever literary pieces.

It's better than How most people in Newport speak! Lucky/rev, I've got hartridge at home sat, know much about then?

I know where Hartridge is, that's about it!

rodders wrote:... Andress thinks so anyways....

I have an idea for a new rugby show. It could be like a buddy film, a bromance even. I call it 'Can't prop, Won't prop' starring Jamie Hagan and John Andress. I'm going to start writing down some ideas and sent it to RTE. It'll make that show about Connacht look like a bucket of sick.

Should be a fun match for me to hook in then as our other hooker is injured!!

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

rodders wrote:... Andress thinks so anyways....

I have an idea for a new rugby show. It could be like a buddy film, a bromance even. I call it 'Can't prop, Won't prop' starring Jamie Hagan and John Andress. I'm going to start writing down some ideas and sent it to RTE. It'll make that show about Connacht look like a bucket of sick.

Good idea.....I just hope it doesn't clash with my new TV movie called good prop, bad prop starring none other than Michael Bent. I haven't decided which role to give him yet though.....

prop_lyd wrote:Should be a fun match for me to hook in then as our other hooker is injured!!

It's probably unfair to assume that, but it's not a decent place. I remember when I played school football at Hartridge (as it was known) and after we beat them, we had a load of kids coming towards our bus.

I've got a trip to Gwernyfed on Saturday, which my preconceptions would assume we'll be playing a big pack of farmers boys.

Sorry to hear the sad news Pete. It must have come as a shock.

Congrats on the ITM season, btw. Tasman did pretty well (tapered off a bit towards the end) and some consolation with the Cantabrians getting their 5th straight championship.

Did Buller or Sth Canterbury win the Lochore Cup... do you know?

Reading back - it's all a bit of a smokescreen really (the Bent Issue) but I also see the answer plainly in the words of many of you.
If it's a wake up call for others or simply a question of poor timing weeks out from the AIs - we'll just have to see it out. Personally, I think it will blow over and it only serves to cause a distraction right now.

Ireland need to avoid getting wound up about it and stop wasting valuable energy!

There are no short cuts... you've gotta grow and develop your own talent first and foremost and then groom any potential 'stars' (or at least give those candidates every opportunity) for the long haul of a player's career if necessary. You can't kid yourself or hope for a magic import to suddenly change the mindset and performance of the team/squad and again it's hoping for the wrong thing in the wrong way.

As the astute amongst us will note; there is plenty of talent on show in many places at any given time in whatever position. Stand out players really do stand out. They have an aura about them.

I was watching the NZ-Oz Schoolboys a few weeks ago and was in awe of certain players' skill sets and overall 'presence on the field'. Just when you think you've seen it all thousands of times (both pleb + elite sports, hooky ) there is always some kid that will raise the bloody bar even higher again.

The level of understanding of the actual game and the ability to react and set up maximum advantage (should it fall short) for the supporting players was something to behold. It was relentless stuff with very few errors, iron wall defences, some brilliant running lines and moves... stuff I hadn't seen executed so perfectly before. It was also a clean game with hardly any penalties.

Ireland should aim to do the same in terms of modelling their mindset to play rugby at a higher level than at present.

Linebreaker wrote:There are no short cuts... you've gotta grow and develop your own talent first and foremost and then groom any potential 'stars' (or at least give those candidates every opportunity) for the long haul of a player's career if necessary. You can't kid yourself or hope for a magic import to suddenly change the mindset and performance of the team/squad and again it's hoping for the wrong thing in the wrong way.

Agree entirely but that is for the long term and issues as to why we aren't producing enough decent props needs to be addressed. However in the interim if this guy Bent gives us a 3rd guy who can be trusted to anchor a scrum without collapsing and/or conceding penalties at the first bit of pressure then he should be welcomed with opened arms in my opinion.

Interesting to listen to Prop and Revs conversation about playing against big tough farmers and miner types. Is that something our young props are missing in Ireland as they go from school boy to academy rugby?

Linebreaker wrote:Sorry to hear the sad news Pete. It must have come as a shock.

Congrats on the ITM season, btw. Tasman did pretty well (tapered off a bit towards the end) and some consolation with the Cantabrians getting their 5th straight championship.

Did Buller or Sth Canterbury win the Lochore Cup... do you know?

Reading back - it's all a bit of a smokescreen really (the Bent Issue) but I also see the answer plainly in the words of many of you.
If it's a wake up call for others or simply a question of poor timing weeks out from the AIs - we'll just have to see it out. Personally, I think it will blow over and it only serves to cause a distraction right now.

Ireland need to avoid getting wound up about it and stop wasting valuable energy!

There are no short cuts... you've gotta grow and develop your own talent first and foremost and then groom any potential 'stars' (or at least give those candidates every opportunity) for the long haul of a player's career if necessary. You can't kid yourself or hope for a magic import to suddenly change the mindset and performance of the team/squad and again it's hoping for the wrong thing in the wrong way.

As the astute amongst us will note; there is plenty of talent on show in many places at any given time in whatever position. Stand out players really do stand out. They have an aura about them.

I was watching the NZ-Oz Schoolboys a few weeks ago and was in awe of certain players' skill sets and overall 'presence on the field'. Just when you think you've seen it all thousands of times (both pleb + elite sports, hooky ) there is always some kid that will raise the bloody bar even higher again.

The level of understanding of the actual game and the ability to react and set up maximum advantage (should it fall short) for the supporting players was something to behold. It was relentless stuff with very few errors, iron wall defences, some brilliant running lines and moves... stuff I hadn't seen executed so perfectly before. It was also a clean game with hardly any penalties.

Ireland should aim to do the same in terms of modelling their mindset to play rugby at a higher level than at present.

Cheers LB. With Tasman, I was just ecstatic that we weren't last after last season. Of course, seeing as the Irish have pinched Tasman's #10 next season might be tough again.

Buller won the Lochore Cup, and East Coast the Meads Cup.

Risca Rev wrote:I remember when I played school football at Hartridge (as it was known) and after we beat them, we had a load of kids coming towards our bus.

To congratulate you, surely?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:I remember when I played school football at Hartridge (as it was known) and after we beat them, we had a load of kids coming towards our bus.

To congratulate you, surely?

Haha. Yeah must've been.

Have you all seen the new British Lions shirt?