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by **Ozzy3213** Fri 09 Nov 2012, 9:19 am

First topic message reminder :

Saracens move off the bottom of the table after picking up a losing bonus point against Gloucester.

Homepage - Page 8 Aviva-Premiership-Trophy-e1306508139154

2011/2012 – Newcastle Falcons
2010/2011 - Newcastle Falcons
2009/2010 - Saracens
2008/2009 - London Irish

POS	Aviva Premiership	PLAYED	WON	DREW	LOST	P F	P A	P D	T F	T A	TBP	LBP	POINTS
1	Leicester Tigers	10	9	0	1	252	208	+44	27	18	0	1	37
2	Harlequins	10	7	0	3	251	231	+20	27	24	1	3	32
3	Newcastle Falcons	10	7	0	3	250	228	+22	25	19	0	3	31
4	London Irish	10	6	0	4	259	239	+20	28	24	2	4	30
5	Northampton Saints	10	5	1	4	261	241	+20	29	24	2	4	28
6	Gloucester	10	6	0	4	246	237	+9	27	25	0	3	27
7	Sale Sharks	10	5	0	5	252	242	+10	27	25	1	5	26
8	Bath Rugby	10	4	0	6	229	245	-16	21	27	0	5	21
9	London Welsh	10	3	1	6	224	232	-8	22	22	0	6	20
10	London Wasps	10	2	0	8	211	244	-33	19	27	0	7	15
11	Saracens	10	2	1	7	208	255	-47	18	28	0	4	14
12	Worcester Warriors	10	2	1	7	216	257	-41	19	27	0	3	13

Fixture List
European Homepage

Welcome to Season 5 of the Aviva Premiership fantasty rugby game. Below are the rules of the game which must be adhered to. If there are any situations that arise in the course of the game which are not covered by the rules, a final decision will be made by the RFU (Ozzy3213) as to how the situation will be resolved.

Senior Squads wrote:
The maximum squad size is 40 senior players. If a team has more than 40 players in their squad then they will be fined £1 million per player over the permitted amounts per day for the first seven days. If after 7 consecutive days a team still has more than the permitted number of players then the team will be fined £2 million per player per day, and fined 1 league point per player per day for the next seven days. If after this time a team still has more than the permitted number of players in their squad, the RFU (me) will remove players at it’s discretion to bring them back under the permitted numbers. There will be no right of appeal to players being removed.

Be aware that all tier one international matches which are played during the season will count in the game, and players selected in the matchday 22's for those matches will not be eligible to play for their clubs on that weekend, therefore you must give due consideration to the make up of your squad.

Academy Rules wrote:
Each team will be allowed to have a listed senior academy squad of 20 players. Players who are in the senior academy must be under 22 years of age as of 1st September 2012 (therefore must have been born on or after 1st Septmber 1990). Players who are under the age of 20 (so born after 1st September 1992) AND are in the academy of the club that you are managing in real life, DO NOT need to be listed as senior academy players as part of your 20, but are available to you in this game and cannot be poached by other clubs without paying you a fee.

Should a player not listed in your 20 senior academy players, but part of the clubs academy in real life move clubs in real life, then you will have first option of promoting him to your listed senior academy. If you choose not to take this option he will become property of the club that he moves to in real life in this game.

Transfers wrote:

Domestic (other AP Teams)
Each team has a budget to use in the purchase of players. Domestic transfers between AP clubs, regardless of nationality of player, should be negotiated between the respective managers, and then confirmed on the Domestic Transfer Confirmation Page.

Domestic (Championship and below)
Each team may during the season purchase no more than 3 players from the Championship or the National Leagues. These players must be bid for on the Championship/National League bidding page, and each bid will be considered by me on it's own merits before being accepted or rejected. No bid will be accepted until a minimum of 24 hours has elapsed from the time the bid was made, in order to afford other managers the opportunity to make a counter bid.

Foreign
To make a foreign transfer (i.e from any club outside of the AP, regardless of whether the player is English) a bid should be made on the Foreign Transfers Page, which will be considered by me against the posted guidelines for purchase prices before being accepted or rejected. No bid will be accepted until a minimum of 24 hours has elapsed from the time the bid was made, in order to afford other managers the opportunity to make a counter bid.

Foreign transfers will unlimited during the off season and 2 during the season. The exact dates of the two transfer windows during the season is to be confirmed.

Player Releases wrote:
Managers may choose to release players from their clubs, for which they will be offered compensation

Compensation will be paid as follows

£2 million – current international (must have played international rugby in the previous 12 months)
£1.5 million – former international
£1m – top flight experience
£0.5m – other

If a released player plays in real life for a team outside of this game he will be deemed to have returned to that team. If not then he will be deemed to have signed for a Championship side. If another manager wants to pick a released player up, they will have to bid for him in the same way as for a foreign or Championship/National League player.

Retirements wrote:
There will be no compensation for retiring players. Should a player who retires decide to come out of retirement and play again, then he will automatically go back to the club who he was playing for in the game when he retired.

Fixtures wrote:
There will be 22 Aviva Premiership games per season, plus the play offs. There will also be Heineken Cup, Amlin Challenge Cup and Anglo Welsh Cup matches. These games will take place once a week. A thread will be put up for managers to name their teams on Thursdays, then on Fridays, managers will post the scores that they think will happen from these games (apart from games in which they are involved). An average of all predictions will be taken, and then 0.5 points added to each teams score for each prediction that had them as the winner, and that will then be the final score.

Teams wrote:
When naming your team, not only should you put the starting XV and replacements, but also tactics that your team will employ. Results will be affected by the tactics described.

In addition, each team must have the following:-

At least 10 England qualified players in your matchday 23, and at least 5 of those must be in your starting XV.

At least 2 props and 1 hooker on the bench.

All players must be eligible (not injured or banned).

Failure to comply with these rules will result in forfeiting the match and a 1 league point deduction.

If you fail to submit a team for a match, then the other team will be automatically awarded a 30-0 bonus point win. If both teams fail to submit a team, then it will be scored as a 0-0 draw.

Injuries and Suspensions wrote:
Injuries in this game do NOT reflect real life, they will be generated by me.

Players banned in real life will be ineligible for selection in this game for the duration of the ban.

Inclusion of injured/banned players will result in them being replaced by players on the bench, and the bench not having eight players, which may result in punishment if it concerns the front-row.

Punishment for fielding an ineligible player will be loss of one match point for a first offence, two for a second offence and so on.

Financial Rewards wrote:
There will be no rewards for the result of an individual match, instead the managers will receive cash for predicting.

£1.5m for descriptive predictions
£0.25m for scores on the doors predictions
If you fail to predict without first advising me that you are unable to do so that week, you will be fined £1m for a first offence, £2m for a second offence, £3m for a third offence etc.

AP finishing positions.

Champions: 8m
Runners Up: 6m
Playoff Semi Finalist Losers: 5m
5th: 4m
6th: 3.5m
7th: 3m
8th: 2.5m
9th: 2m
10th: 1.5m
11th: 1m
12th: 0.5m

Heineken Cup

Losing Quarter Finalists - £2 million each
Losing Semi Finalists - £3 million each
Runners Up - £4 million
Champions - £5 million

Amlin Challenge Cup

Losing Quarter Finalists - £1 million each
Losing Semi Finalists - £2 million each
Runners Up - £3 million
Champions - £4 million

Anglo-Welsh Cup

Losing Semi Finalist - £1 million each
Runners Up - £2 million
Champions - £3 million

If your budgets falls below minus £10 million for any reason, the administrators (ozzy3213) will step in and players from within your squad will be released for the relevant financial compensation in order to bring your budget back above minus £10 million.

by SirJohnnyEnglish Sat 17 Nov 2012, 10:26 pm

Setanta mate

by Guest Sat 17 Nov 2012, 10:39 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
anonmattyt wrote:Thought Robshaws captaincy was awful today. Some dreadful decisions. Dreadful England performance are locks were so mediocre it was untrue

He'll learn. Parling was prob pick of forwards

Robshaw is a good leader just made stupid decisions. Don't think he will ever dO that again. Parling nowhere near England's best forward. Was a 5/6 out of ten for me as
With most ratings.

We were poor. As you know I am no lancaster fan. That perfpenance is based on his selections. Barritt was poor and Tuilagi butchered a few opportunities. We are not great so time to be bold with selection.

by Guest Sat 17 Nov 2012, 11:41 pm

Marcello Bosch is some centre was best 13 in rc with smith and is top. Adriaan Strauss has 3 mom out of last 6 internationals. Brits on bench with bdp shows astonishing depth at hooker. All
3 would be starting at any other int side

by Guest Sun 18 Nov 2012, 1:23 am

Interesting having watched again. Tj decent again. We seem
To make non intelligent rugby players who just have size and not
Much else.berri k Barnes would be too small here. Such a player st 10,12,13,15

Just a natural rugby player

by Guest Sun 18 Nov 2012, 1:52 am

Steve Moore made diff. The main sh plus vs nh is speed of ball. Sh place the ball and clear past the golden metre so much better. It allows attack and defence to work much better.

Dave Dennis is average but clears rucks better than any English player. Hooper sensational.

Sharples made 12 tackles first half. Average int wing makes almost half that in entire match. Aussies test teams in diff ways. Lucky Sharples did not miss any of them although was a speed bump in one. Our passing was so poor Robshaw Barritt tuilagi( worst culprit) flood all gave passes behind player rather than to run on to which is just bad basics.

AAC went well and cummins always intelligent. Timani emerging as a massive player at 4. Approaching world class.

Tuilagi Barritt is noon tindall or carling deglanville ie not a combo.

Youngs never an international hooker. Hartleys stock will increase over the AI's.

My ticket for sa and nz game suddenly feel so expensive. Wish I had offloaded them. That said be good to see one of best nz teams ever. Aaron smith allows carter to be even better. Many nz pundits think tj perenara better than smith which is frightening as he looks the real deal.

by Guest Sun 18 Nov 2012, 2:06 am

"replacement scrum-half Ben Youngs struggled with his handling and decision-making as the seconds ticked away."

Very true. He gave flood no help and we may need another bench option

by Sgt_Pooly Sun 18 Nov 2012, 9:12 am

Sharples defence was terrible.

Stats show he missed 3 out of 5, he couldn't handle Cummins at all.

by **Ozzy3213** Sun 18 Nov 2012, 9:23 am

I'm just watching the game now, 20 minutes in. Some really worrying signs from England, interspersed with some good bits. I see my fears about Youngs in the scrum that voiced here last week turned out to be right.

by Sgt_Pooly Sun 18 Nov 2012, 9:27 am

England stats:

http://www.espnscrum.com/australia-tour-2012/rugby/match/153975.html

"Sharples made 12 tackles first half. Average int wing makes almost half that in entire match. Aussies test teams in diff ways. Lucky Sharples did not miss any of them although was a speed bump in one."

Not sure which game you watched there Matt, Cummins gave Sharples real issues all game. Not only did he miss 3/5 tackles his positional play was dire, Aus main threat was down Sharples side.

Sharples is immense going forward but seems to have learnt his defence from JSD!! Do the backs do any defensive work at Gloucester?!!!

Ashton missed 2 made none too. Not good enough.

by dammit_chris Sun 18 Nov 2012, 9:27 am

Player ratings by Paul Ackford in the Telegraph - absolutely slates the front five (Marler 2, Youngs 3, Cole 4, Palmer 4, Parling 5) and gives both Johnson and Robshaw 4/10 each. Worst performance I think I can remember from an English pack - couldnt scrummage, couldn't clear the breakdown and I dont think we smashed one collisions - good job we arent playing a team next week where all they can do is scrummage, destroy the breakdown and smash the collisions - next two weeks are going to be painful.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/9685529/England-v-Australia-player-ratings.html

by **Ozzy3213** Sun 18 Nov 2012, 9:32 am

Aus back play just so much more intelligent than ours at the moment.

by dammit_chris Sun 18 Nov 2012, 9:33 am

Healy also wrote a good piece in the Telegraph today saying that England lack intelligence and don't use their heads at all, means they are too predictable in attack.

Really hope that Lancaster makes some changes now, espc in the backrow and secondrow - Wood simply has to start now.

by dammit_chris Sun 18 Nov 2012, 9:39 am

Completely agree Pete, the thing that really worries me with England is that for years we havent shown any signs of playing intelligent rugby, we might have one or two games where we look like things have changed but then go backwards.

We need some creativity in the midfield - Flood isn't quick enough for the style he is trying to bring and got swallowed up 4-5 times by the Aussie defence on his own, there is no creativity with Barritt-Tuilagi, so one of them has to go and I cant recall a single time we gave a backthree player some space.

Actually I can't remember a backmove we did either - when you watch how much movement the Aussies do and compare it to ours, it is pretty embarrassing - we need some flair at 10 or 12, at least so it looks like we might threaten a defence without just relying on Tuilagi's power - we don't even use him as a decoy runner!

Really need Hartley and Lawes back, but I dont think either are playing for Saints yet.

by **Ozzy3213** Sun 18 Nov 2012, 9:40 am

The thing is, making wholesale changes to face the Boks and AB's is not going to help us .

Cummins just scored a try, pass from Phipps to him looked well forward at first glance.

by **Ozzy3213** Sun 18 Nov 2012, 9:40 am

From the overhead angle, looks flat rather than forward, just shows how the TV cameras can give a false impression.

by **Ozzy3213** Sun 18 Nov 2012, 9:41 am

Aus back line always looks so much better balanced with AAC at 13 rather than in the back 3.

by dammit_chris Sun 18 Nov 2012, 9:43 am

See Ben Morgan got a hattrick yesterday.

I'd make at least 4 changes - Corbs for Marler, Launchbury for Palmer, Wood for Johnson and Morgan for Waldroum. I'd also be concerned for Tom Youngs going up against the SA pack.

Would also drop Ben Youngs and Owen Farrell for Lee Dickson and Freddie Burns on the bench.

by **Ozzy3213** Sun 18 Nov 2012, 9:45 am

Not quite sure how Manu's try got given by the TMO.

by Guest Sun 18 Nov 2012, 10:10 am

Times ratings

Sharples 6
Parling 4 " wilted by sharpe England need better"
Palmer 6 hard working and bright start
Tuilagi 4 move to wing or drop him

by Guest Sun 18 Nov 2012, 10:13 am

Those stats are garbage pooly. Sharples did not miss a tackle all game. We need to get the ball to our wings. Our pack is the issue we generate such slow ball

by Sgt_Pooly Sun 18 Nov 2012, 10:24 am

I suggest you look at Aus 1st try Matt, Sharples misses tackle on Phipps.

Guardian:

Charlie Sharples 4 Not the romp of last week but this is another level again. Far from a disaster but a fair bit of time chasing things.

Geoff Parling 7 What started quietly grew into another fine display from England's lineout leader. Has a willing appetite to carry and the fitness to keep doing it.

Telegraph:

Charlie Sharples
Tested defensively by Nick Cummins and failed to make a conclusive break himself. Proved that pace is not everything at this level. 4

--------------

End of day can find good/bad reports on anyone. Better to watch and judge yourself.

by Sgt_Pooly Sun 18 Nov 2012, 10:51 am

Agree on the slow ball though, our major issue.

by dammit_chris Sun 18 Nov 2012, 11:21 am

England were woeful - wouldnt have a single player about a 6 in ratings. No forward was above a 5 in my opinion.

Trouble we have at the moment is that we seriously lack physicality, any breakdown experts, can't win collisions and don't have any dynamism in the pack. Only guy that offered any go forward was Launchbury and he's only 20 - shouldnt be like that.

We need an out and out no7 as otherwise guys like Hooper are just going to eat us up all day - Robshaw is a good player, but he's a no6, not a no7 at this level and I think Wood and Croft are better no6s - trouble is no one else who can play no7 better than Robshaw!

Waldroum is a solid player, but again for an international no8 you seriously need more pace off the back of a scrum.

Parling leading lineout very well, but he doesnt really have enough physicality - neither Palmer nor Parling cleared the ruck area or took out Hooper.

I know Marler didn't help him yesterday, but Tom Youngs is so far away from being an international class hooker - really do miss Hartley, not just his play but leadership in the pack.

Wont even start on the backline!

by Sgt_Pooly Sun 18 Nov 2012, 11:26 am

Our problem is slow ball so unsure what this natural 7 would help with.

I think Youngs is quality, only his 2nd cap so still early days. I actually prefer him to Hartley already.

by dammit_chris Sun 18 Nov 2012, 11:31 am

Natural 7 would get fast ball for us? But there isn't anyone, so we need second rows to front up and be more aggressive and clear out the areas for us, which hasn't happened in years, unless LAwes plays.

Youngs has talent, but with Hartley you get the leadership, winding up of opposition, work at the breakdown (v underrated part) and very good basics. England need leaders at the moment, so for me Hartley almost first name on the teamsheet.

by Steven_Sharks Sun 18 Nov 2012, 11:32 am

Locks create the quick ball. Has to be on their shoulders

by Driver Sun 18 Nov 2012, 11:33 am

Anybody wanna buy a PS3?

by Sgt_Pooly Sun 18 Nov 2012, 11:34 am

Pack creates quick ball.

How can a lock be at every ruck?

by Steven_Sharks Sun 18 Nov 2012, 11:38 am

But when you aren't getting quick ball locks have to shoulder the responsibilty and start really hitting rucks as a priority. I've not seen a second of the game, but slow ball is the fault of the pack but especially the lock forwards for me. Always has been.

by Sgt_Pooly Sun 18 Nov 2012, 11:41 am

It's the responsibility of whoever arrives at the ruck first to clear and provide quick ball. Locks can't be at every ruck first, really don't get that statement Steve.

It's like saying its wingers responsibility to score tries, if we don't score it's their fault.

by dammit_chris Sun 18 Nov 2012, 11:42 am

Thought Hooper was exceptional yesterday Steven, you've got one heck of a player there - must be something about how s15 is played to get so many amazing talents coming through there at the moment - Pocock, Hooper, Gill for the Aussies - each one would walk into the England set up.

Think Robshaw is ok until he comes up against a top player like Hooper - didnt realise just how good he was.

Whole pack lacked physicality yesterday, but we also play mindless rugby in the backline - Flood offered next to nothing, you kind of know what he is going to do, either take it up himself and get tackled or try an inside pass - so predictable and easy to defend against. He needs some help in the 12-13 channel and just isnt getting that.

Would be interesting to see if Goode would make the switch to 12 as he's got the intelligence, but also Burns. Only way you can keep Barritt and Tuilagi is if you play Burns or Cipriani as our 10.

by Steven_Sharks Sun 18 Nov 2012, 11:49 am

Its how I've been brought up playing rugby. Along with sharing the lineout responsibility with the hooker, the primary responsibility for a lock forward is to enforce the ruck.

In rugby outside of the set piece everyone has to do everything and that's true. But if the rucks aren't working then it the locks need to stop worrying about carrying and aim to start hitting every other ruck

by Sgt_Pooly Sun 18 Nov 2012, 11:49 am

Goode/Burns not 12's.

Tuilagi needs to learn how to pass also, butchered numerous chances again yesterday. He's so tunnel visioned. Is JJ an option at 13 outside Barritt??

by dammit_chris Sun 18 Nov 2012, 11:51 am

What changes would you make Steven?

by Sgt_Pooly Sun 18 Nov 2012, 11:51 am

Agree with that Steve but it's not a locks responsibility if team receives slow ball, it's the pack and team.

It's our technique on a whole that's the problem.

by Steven_Sharks Sun 18 Nov 2012, 11:57 am

I am watching the game now so will be able to say later.

I wouldn't make too many changes before watching. I'd like to see Wood in the side for Johnson and Morgan ahead of Waldrom though.

by Sgt_Pooly Sun 18 Nov 2012, 12:03 pm

Close your eyes at the scrums Steve, not a good afternoon for Marler

by Guest Sun 18 Nov 2012, 12:10 pm

Agree with Steve re locks and quick ball
. With people working more in pods it's everyones responsibility to ruck. We don't go far enough past the ruck to create that quick ball. Watch nz vs Scotland the quality of ruck ball was awful.i would have had nobody above a 5 yesterday except for maybe flood

by Steven_Sharks Sun 18 Nov 2012, 12:15 pm

Alexander a fine prop so not to concerned. At his age both and he and mako will take beatings at the top level.

First 20 haven't been too bad. Hooper has started well.

by Driver Sun 18 Nov 2012, 12:17 pm

Thought our lineout picked up when Wood came on , Youngs threw to the tail a bit more when he came on. Parling seemed to call a lot of ball to himself and give the man his due he banked it and offered quick ball from it.

For the Boks game i'd go.

1.Marler
2.Youngs
3.Cole
4.Launchbury
5.Parling
6.Johnson
7.Robshaw
8.Morgan

9.Youngs
10.Flood
11.Brown
12.Barritt
13.Joseph
14.Ashton
15.Goode

Don't understand where all this Johnson critisim comes from , he's work rate is above anyone elses in the England back row. When Cummins ran through Sharples he made the 20 yard track back to tackle him.

Waldrom carried reasonably well but the Australian line was pretty damm good at smashing people on the gainline.

Tuilagi needs to convert to wing for me , bloke has no vision and just puts the blinkers on.

by Steven_Sharks Sun 18 Nov 2012, 12:19 pm

Flood has had a good 25 mins

by Steven_Sharks Sun 18 Nov 2012, 12:28 pm

Paul Ackford in the telegraph gave Hooper a 10!

Good timing for me for him to hit some form.

by Driver Sun 18 Nov 2012, 12:30 pm

Was sensational yesterday , bloke has everything in his locker.

Could probs play

6.Hooper
7.Pocock
8.Higgenbottom

by Steven_Sharks Sun 18 Nov 2012, 12:36 pm

I suspect that with Hooper and Pocock as flankers they would stick with Palu at 8 at least short term. Although Hooper and Pocock offer more in terms of carrying than Wood and Robshaw, who I think are our best flankers.

by Steven_Sharks Sun 18 Nov 2012, 12:39 pm

Don't think England were that bad in first half. Not really created anything but we don't have many creative options so that's not surprising.

by Sgt_Pooly Sun 18 Nov 2012, 12:42 pm

It was just conviction Steve, see it more in the 2nd as we chase the game.

Robshaw makes some bad calls and inability to transform territory into points cost us.

by 'Arry Spurs Sun 18 Nov 2012, 12:48 pm

Think our pack will need beefing up for the boks game, Hartley, Lawes, Haskell and Morgan all need to start for me.

by Steven_Sharks Sun 18 Nov 2012, 12:51 pm

Think you might be right Arry. Horses for Courses selection may be needed. I do think it should be a England squad not just a team. That pack would have been monstered by SA or AB's today.

by Sgt_Pooly Sun 18 Nov 2012, 12:52 pm

Wood probably played his way into a start tbh

by Steven_Sharks Sun 18 Nov 2012, 12:54 pm

Launchbury and Mako made great impact! Fine attack that but Manu ruined an overlap there. I still think he'd be better at 12.

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