Irish Analysis and player ratings against S.Africa

Tough game for sure. Not enjoyable for a neutral I'd say. Credit to S.Africa for coming out in the second half with a different mind set and getting the job done.

Good to see Lansdowne road back at full capacity or close enough. Strauss and Bent played well and it was great to see Strauss sing the anthem.

Anyways here it is:
Watching the game again and looking back at Irish general play to have a look in a bit more detail:

Earls in 2nd minute has a 2 on 1 and kicks it into his opposite number the man he was up against on the inside was their tighthead after good work from Darcy.

Unreal zebo under the high ball, good line kicking too.

Sexton kicking well out of hand early on.

Henry dealing with restarts well.

Murray's box kicks are too far for Ireland to challenge for.

Great turnover by POM. He then messes up a lineout badly.

Irish defensive line not coming up together off Saffa scrum. Doing much better off lineout in defence.

Great Irish scrum. First attacking angle run by Earls and Darcy (dummy switch 12 pop 13) knocked on by Earls. Sexton and POM handed off by Adriaan Strauss.

14th minute Irish go wide from inside their 22 they have the numbers but Earls and Trimble can't continue the continuity so kick it. Poor drawing of men.

First Irish lineout lost.

Fantastic steal from Healy after really good attacking play from S.Africa.

18th min good counterattack and then inside line by Zebo. Poor passing by Murray. Good switch from Sexton to Strauss gets over the gainline. Awful decision by Murray to feed McCarthy who was isolated.

Murray's box kicking improving hugely, another good take from Henry on restart.

Great man and ball tackle by McCarthy slowing SA ball down. Great turnover by Henry.

23min. Darcy has to take Murrays pass over his head and ruins attemp to take it up. McCarthy lays out one defender. Ball gets scrappy and Earls plays awful pass to McCarthy.

26min. Good take by Bowe then Sexton uses quick hands to release Earls on the right wing who steps past Hougaard beautifully but becomes isolated.

28min McCarthy fighting brilliantly in maul then turnover penalty won by Strauss. Quick one taken, Sexton feeds Bowe who makes halfbreak on the inside offloads to Murray who feeds Earls really well. Earls releases Zebo who runs well. Murray's passing poor. Great interchange between Bowe and Zebo and then drive by Healy. Momentum slowed due to murray passing slightly above or slightly behind the runner.

JP gets yellow. Ref tells Heaslip to make sure Sexton overreact.

McCarthy misses lineout, looks like a timing issue.

33min. Scrum penalty to ireland on Ross's side.
Penalty count to now is 4-10
Possession 58-42.

Murray wastes ball inside S.African 10m line by box kicking the ball away when maul doesn't work. Poor decision as Boks are still down to 14.

Lineout off the top, ball going straight to Darcy with Trimble and Sexton running wider lines but ball goes well above Darcy's head and the move breaks down.

Darcy challenges line again but very obvious due to no runners. POM carries well. Good carrying Healy after another poor Murray pass.

Ryan and Heaslip doing very well in lineout now. Good maul started on Ryan and Strauss runs over Lambie, ball goes wide and Earls throws the ball forward and in to touch.

Sexton misses his first kick 39min.

Good take by POM on restart, Heaslip goes to high in to contact and support are too slow.

40min. Great work at the breakdown by Murray who steps but offloads to the wrong side as Bowe was on the other shoulder. Henry then gives away idiotic penalty.

HALF TIME.

Zebo clears well from kickoff.

Henry claims ball and offloads to POM who runs approx 15m left and 3m forward.

Good up and under from Sexton Bowe nearly wins it for the second time.

S.Africa counter and Sexton, Earls and Henry are pushed back in contact, then McCarthy absolutely empties Estebenz.

Healy goes off with suspected concussion, Kilcoyne on. S.Africa go for touch instead of points.

McCarthy doesn't get near Estenbez in lineout but does well defending the maul but S.Africa still going forward. Held up eventually by Bowe and Heaslip.

Heaslip sent to the bin for entry in the maul, looked like Ross or Ryan but ref said that Heaslip was the most recent transgression.

McCarthy and Strauss sack maul again, S.Africa go blind and Murray makes a try saving tackle. Sexton and Darcy weak in contact against Adriaan Strauss then very poor pillar defending by Ryan as Pienaar goes in for the try.

45min. Takes Ireland a while to call lineout (must have been Heaslip's job) but the 5 man works and Trimble is sent up the middle on a switch to mediocre effect. Murray immediately then attacks the blind side which is poorly executed by the team. Murray then kicks the ball far too deep and JP takes ball relatively easily and Ireland end up back on halfway from the mark.

47min. Exact same call is made. 5 man lineout, switch with Trimble. Attack the blindside with Murray switching with POM which would work well if the Boks hadn't seen it 2mins before and be prepared for it. Continuing attacking blind side. Poor passing, Irish guys taking it standing still. Poor cross kick from Sexton and returned with interest and trimble knocks it in to touch by mistake.

DeVilliers runs over Darcy then drags Earls with him. Darcy and Henry don't stand up to lambie physically who wins cheap yards.

Another great tackle by McCarthy and steal by Healy. Ball goes through Earls' hands and then Trimble with the entire backfield unoccupied finds a poor touch just outside the 22 when he could have kicked long.

Ryan and Healy working hard in tackle and ruck. Positive contacts. Darcy misses another tackle then POM gives away a penalty for not releasing the tackled player.

53min. Great lineout take again by Ryan, ball is fed to Sexton then Darcy. S.Africa don't put anyone in ruck but the ball is still slow for some reason. Murray takes a while to get there. Great hands from Zebo releases Bowe on the right. Quicker ball not utilised very well at all. Zebo makes some head way again. Darcy and then Earls both attack the blindside to no gain. Strauss and Healy carry very well. Good continuity play. Murray looks unfit takes a while to get to the ruck and when we go through a few phases he just doesn't get there in time and by the time he does the spaces that the quick ball had created are gone. Penalty eventually conceded.
This phase of possession lasted over 3 minutes but we only made it from halfway to just before their 22 yard line. Most yards made by Bowe and Zebo in this attack.

57min. Great maul defence (Healy, McCarthy) but DeVilliers gets over the gainline and supplies quick ball far too easily. Great turnover by Strauss and McCarthy.

58min. Good lineout by McCarthy and nice line running by Darcy and Sexton to put Sexton in the secondary but the S.African defence read it and Sexton has to throw a high pass to McFadden (now on the wing) which kills momentum. Great carry Heaslip and Zebo uses great feet to make yards. Murray and Sexton give hospital passes to POM and McCarthy respectively, lose of yards/momentum.

Excellent feet by Earls to make a halfbreak but he gets caught and doesn't have the strength to stop himself being driven back by Hougaard.

Sexton misses kick from 55m.

More good lineout work but poor contact in midfield. Fringe attack by forwards is very good. Ball becomes far too slow.

64mins. Ross concedes first penalty in the scrum.

POM concedes penalty for taking man in the air. Missed kick and cleared by Zebo. POM knocks on the high bomb after a few phases McCarthy wins the ball back with a huge tackle. Ross concedes another penalty at the scrum won by McCarthy.

72mins. Better scrum with Bent and DOC in. On the second scrum he wins a penalty.

73min. Quick ball from reddan see's Healy go through 3 tackles and then Bent through 2. Negative carries by Ryan stunt momentum and ball lost when ball slows further.

76min. Promising scrum then carry by Heaslip. Good move off the back but Zebo unfortunately loses ball in contact.

79min. Strange seeing the way ROG and Sexton are playing. Insead of all the runners coming off the 10 position they are now running off the 12 position. ROG is almost acting like a second scrumhalf, he gets the ball from Reddan and feeds Sexton who then makes the call on who receives the ball next. We are missing a 12 in this passage of play but we have two 10's which gets the ball wider but also limits the space for second phase possession.

80min. Lineout off top from Heaslip, play in the midfield, Bowe is caught from Zebo's nice inside pass. Play slows. ROG goes blind and chips the ball on for Henderson to chase.

Ireland lose the game.

1-Worst performance you have ever seen
2-Very very bad
3-Bad
4-Below par
5-Average
6-Above average
7-Good
8-Very good
9-Excellent
10-Best performance you've ever seen

Healy- 7.
Good carrying and did well in the rucks and scrummaging.

Strauss- 7.
Some good steals. Lineout went well after few blips. Carried well at times.

Ross- 5.
Some good and bad carries. Still quite ponderous. Good in scrum but unfit.

Ryan- 5.
Poor defence for try. Good lineout. Not much carrying and not enforcing in rucks.

McCarthy- 8.5
Huge workrate on small things. Ruck, maul and tackle was outstanding.

POM- 3.
Not physical enough. Poor discipline. Won a turnover or two I think though.

Henry- 5.5
He made some good carries off restart. Good in ruck. Underpowered at times though. Was rarely a link either.

Heaslip- 4.
Unlucky to be sin binned. Good in defence and lineout but not much in attack.

Murray- 3.
His accuracy of passing was atrocious. Service marginally quicker. Box kicks ok. Decision making poor.

Sexton- 5.5.
Started the game very well but couldn't kick on. Not as great in defence as before, passed well and goal kicking was ok. Will be disappointed.

Trimble- 4.
Didn't get used anywhere near enough. Made a few very basic mistakes but Ireland really need to get the ball in to his hands more often.

Darcy- 5.
Carried well at the start and his defence was good too. Later in the game he really seemed to lose steam. Murray's pass did him no favours.

Earls- 4.5.
Didn't get over the gainline often enough. In wider channels used great feet. His defence was good but never kept his man from getting over the gainline.

Bowe- 7.5
Came off his wing really well and looked for work. Linked brilliantly with Zebo. Nearly won some offensive high balls. Defended well.

Zebo- 8.
He was very good. Very dangerous runner and wasn't underpowered against the Boks. High ball and kicking was good. Great game at 15.

Positives:
1) Scrum was excellent overall
2) Rucking was pretty good in parts as was defence.
3) I thought the lineout was good.
4) McCarthy, Zebo, Bowe, Healy.

Negatives:
1) This team doesn't know how to attack.
2) Maul defence.
3) Mental strength.
4) Murray, Earls, POM.

I am confused by a few things.

A) Why we called the same play twice. It was a phase play idea (the opposite of playing with your heads up) and I was really disappointed that Ryan, Sexton, POM and Henry as the leaders on the pitch in Heaslip's absence didn't do the sensible thing and call a different one.

B) How we are so toothless. earls' break aside we never really looked dangerous and even that was very isolated. Bowe and Zebo did well and looked really good at certain points but we don't seem to know "how to attack". For a side that scored the most tries in the 6N we never once looked remotely like scoring yesterday.

C) Decision making. Rog kicking it in the last play. Madness. Why was he even on? Very disappointing.

D) Physicality was a big issue we just couldn't deal with them once they got out of second gear. You rarely see Sexton getting pushed back very far, he was really strong against SBW for instance but the Saffa's were dominating everyone other than McCarthy and Healy really.

E) We need a proper scrumhalf.

What you guys think? Feel free to vent away about any points I've made or any you have.

Overall i agree with most of your ratings but yo've been way too generous with Trimble. He was useless. He touched the ball twice the whole game and made mistakes both times. How he has 49 caps for Ireland is beyond a joke!

POM had a good first half but faded badly after the break, Hendo should have been introduced earlier. Reddan I felt made a real difference when introduced, I understand that Murray is young and needs to be given an opportunity but atm he doesn't deserve to start.

yesterday was a poor performance, SA were there for the taking and we didn't do it. I still feel that we have decent players, we just need a gameplan suited to their strengths....I don't think this will happen with the current coaches unfortunatlely

Hi Nipps,

I'm not sure it was Trimble's fault he got the ball so little. There were a lot of instances where he running off Sexton's shoulder but Murray's pass disrupted Sexton's momentum and Trimble was ignored. He also carried well in traffic off two 5 man lineouts. I do agree though that he has to involve himself more often Bowe was everywhere where as Trimble kinda stuck to his wing and that was that.

The last bit of your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs are linked I think, in bullet point form......

1) We have a small very underpowered backline who will not run through people

2) For this backline to succeed they need to be attacking using agility, speed and creativity.

3) This is much easier to do when the defences aren't rushing up to face you.

4) Murray's poor service and even worse pass means that the defence has that little bit more time to organise and then slow us down.

5) This organised defence means we make very few gainline successes.

6) This in turn slows the whole momentum down and you can then repeat stages 4, 5 and 6 until we either kick the ball away, make an error or get turned over.

Hugely frustrating tactics because if Kidney selected Reddan that 4, 5, 6 might read:

4) Reddan creates quick ball infront of Sexton to run on to.

5) The defence is unset due to the quick ball created.

6) Sexton attacks the line then releases his outside backs who use their pace and guile to get over the gainline again against an unorganised defence to repeat the process until the defence buckles or concede a penalty.



In my eyes that formula is very simple, I don't see the need of having another flanker in the scrumhalf position: how many tackles did he make anyway? Did he win a turnover once?

Murray is a young player who has potential talent which he has already given us a glimpse of in some games, but form should wait for no man and Murray has 0 form at the moment. Reddan is playing better and his style suits our slight stature more also.

I agree that I don't think a suitable gameplan will be used with the current coaches either

Who would you pick vs Fiji Nipps?

The lineout was good? I do enjoy your dry humour.

At one stage in the first half we'd won one, lost three. Quite apart from the attacking chances that are spurned, that has a serious psychological effect. Losing - what? Four? Five in total? - is a good distance off "solid", never mInd good. I'd amend Strauss' and McCarthy's scores appropriately.

Otherwise, good analysis, with a lot of work clearly gone into it. But that I think is waaaaay of the mark.

Nipps wrote:Overall i agree with most of your ratings but yo've been way too generous with Trimble. He was useless. He touched the ball twice the whole game and made mistakes both times. How he has 49 caps for Ireland is beyond a joke!

I'm seriously going to leave this forum, if we don't do something about the brainless idiotic spewing of garbage.

IN WHAT WAY IS NOT TOUCHING THE BALL EQUIVALENT TO BEING POOR??

Please do tell. Was it that he:

a) hung around our posts like a kid in the playground and refused to play with the rest of the kids
b) he kept his hands at his side and let the pass bounce of his chest/face/leg on to the ground in protest against the team
c) instead of the tadition "yea yea yea" or a "out here, I'm wide open", he spent all day shouting "don't pass it to me, I'm being man-marked"
d) was the ball magetised, and his hands were magnetised polar opposite making it impossible to gain possession.

or e) and heres a really wacky idea. i'm not sure its even worth suggesting. Is it at all possible, that the gameplan and strategy and instructions and distribution of his team mates might have played a part in how often he got the ball.

And of course, its coincidence he plays in the starting XV of the only unbeaten team in europe in all competitions, in the team that has the best defensive record, and has leaked the least tries. And finally, are we to assume that his three tries in five games were actually someone else crossing the line, before giving the ball to andrew to touch down to lift his spirits...

Pete,

Just had a wee search for that Bod quote that Eirebilly mentioned.

It was just as the teams were running out.

Gabby: Declan Kidney under pressure with less than a year to go on his contract. Is he a man that let's that pressure effect the way he performs? I mean, he always seems very contained when we see him at his post match interviews.

BO'D: Yeah, I've been involved in teams with Declan for the guts of 10 years and I'm still trying to work him out. (Sounds like it was said with a little smile!)He definately has his own way of doing things but this week he'll definately have revved the boys up for a proud performance and a gutsy performance and if we can get at least parity up front then I think that could set the foundations for our backline to do something...

I thought Trimble one of our better players. Bizarre decision to take him off.

Lineout was a a shambles so far too generous for Strauss and McCarthy. Harsh on Ross, given our scrum dominance.

Henry was good I thought. won one turnover, took all the restarts and hence Pieterson taking him out. O'Mahoney did well as did Heaslip, bar his yellow.

D'arcy and Earls a terrible midfield, a total disaster in attack and defense.

Zebo was poor. Shaky under the high ball, poor kicking and crabbed towards touch in attack.

Murray....awful. Slow ball, terrible box kicking and to be honest Sexton tried to run too much slow ball rather than kicking the ball away. Not good enough from an international 10.

Bowe and Healy were excellent.

1. Healy 7
2. Straus 5
3. Ross 6
4. Ryan 5
5. McCarthy 6.5
6. O'Mahoney 6.5
7. Henry 6
8. Heaslip 6
9. Murray 3
10. Sexton 6
11. Trimble 6
12. D'arcy 5
13. Earls 4
14. Bowe 7
15. Zebo 5

Don Alfonso wrote:The lineout was good? I do enjoy your dry humour.

At one stage in the first half we'd won one, lost three. Quite apart from the attacking chances that are spurned, that has a serious psychological effect. Losing - what? Four? Five in total? - is a good distance off "solid", never mInd good. I'd amend Strauss' and McCarthy's scores appropriately.

Otherwise, good analysis, with a lot of work clearly gone into it. But that I think is waaaaay of the mark.

I could be wrong but I think we lost 2 all game, apologies 3. One was a bad throw and poor catch from Cronin and POM. The second was Eztebeth getting up quicker than Ryan. And third was a timing issue which was an inch off.

I think our lineout was really good later in the game. I was really impressed with Ryan and McCarthy by the end of the game with it. Just because the commentators say something doesn't make it true. We had a lot more lineout ball than S.Africa

MrsP wrote:Pete,

Just had a wee search for that Bod quote that Eirebilly mentioned.

It was just as the teams were running out.

Gabby: Declan Kidney under pressure with less than a year to go on his contract. Is he a man that let's that pressure effect the way he performs? I mean, he always seems very contained when we see him at his post match interviews.

BO'D: Yeah, I've been involved in teams with Declan for the guts of 10 years and I'm still trying to work him out. (Sounds like it was said with a little smile!)He definately has his own way of doing things but this week he'll definately have revved the boys up for a proud performance and a gutsy performance and if we can get at least parity up front then I think that could set the foundations for our backline to do something...

Ta Mrs P.

Yeah sounds like he was just having a little friendly dig at Kidney with nothing malicious in it

Thanks, but I don't need to be patronised quite so heavily. Nothing to do with commentators. The stats flashed up on the screen, at some stage in the first half, and it read won 1, lost 3. That's poor. Yes, we managed to stop being quite so poor, but that's not the same as being good. If you think a "good" lineout can lose three in he first half, that's fine. I don't.

I must say some of this confuses me greatly Rodders.

rodders wrote:I thought Trimble one of our better players. Bizarre decision to take him off.

He wasn't involved enough to be one of our best players, no means our worst and not COMPLETELY his fault for not being that involved. I did see Bowe on the left wing rarely saw Trimble on the right. I think he did ok bar 2 instances.

rodders wrote:Lineout was a a shambles so far too generous for Strauss and McCarthy.

I don't think out lineout was that bad we just had so many lineouts that losing 3 seems like a huge thing when proportionally it's not atrocious. McCarthy was unreal IMO and Strauss was stealing and slowing ball very well. Both carried well too.

rodders wrote:Harsh on Ross, given our scrum dominance.

He is just so lazy around the pitch sometimes. He was rucking really well in the first half but he should have been taken off earlier on.

rodders wrote:Henry was good I thought. won one turnover, took all the restarts and hence Pieterson taking him out.

Henry was good yeah, maybe missing some muscle on the Saffas but who wasn't.

rodders wrote:O'Mahoney did well as did Heaslip, bar his yellow.

I think POM was one of our worst players. Heaslip was quite poor in patches and pretty ok in patches.

rodders wrote:D'arcy and Earls a terrible midfield, a total disaster in attack and defense.

Yeah it just doesn't work, I'd love Cave or Bowe or even McFadden at 13.

rodders wrote:Zebo was poor. Shaky under the high ball, poor kicking and crabbed towards touch in attack.

He didn't miss a single catch I don't think. He ran further than all the other backs (bar Darcy- no idea how) and looked creative and with Bowe was one of the few who really hunted down the ball and spied little gaps.

rodders wrote:Murray....awful. Slow ball, terrible box kicking and to be honest Sexton tried to run too much slow ball rather than kicking the ball away. Not good enough from an international 10.

I agree on both of these points. Sexton was average by his high standards in the second half, Murray was poor for the majority of the game.

Bowe and Healy were excellent.

1. Healy 7
2. Straus 5
3. Ross 6
4. Ryan 5
5. McCarthy 6.5
6. O'Mahoney 6.5
7. Henry 6
8. Heaslip 6
9. Murray 3
10. Sexton 6
11. Trimble 6
12. D'arcy 5
13. Earls 4
14. Bowe 7
15. Zebo 5
[/quote]

Don Alfonso wrote:Thanks, but I don't need to be patronised quite so heavily. Nothing to do with commentators. The stats flashed up on the screen, at some stage in the first half, and it read won 1, lost 3. That's poor. Yes, we managed to stop being quite so poor, but that's not the same as being good. If you think a "good" lineout can lose three in he first half, that's fine. I don't.

Apologies didn't mean to come across as patronising. .

Strauss went off with a blood injury and we lost our first one and we lost one when Heaslip was in the bin. I was confused that Heaslip was calling the lineout and not Ryan who seemed like something of an expert in it and was doing it in New Zealand

Trimble was peripheral I would say. Now if he is given a mandate to go and look for work then fair enough as Bowe received the ball more but I genuinely can't see what our plan is.

To be honest I think if best had those line out stats there would be calls for his head. Strauss has the game to mix it in the loose. Sort out the darts and he is up there. Now needs judged on the same standards as other international hookers.

There needs to be a clear out of coaches and players in the Ireland set up. Deccie, les kiss, smal, ROG, DOC, D'arcy, dare i say BOD?. Thank you for everything and best wishes. The next generation needs to start now

Good god:

http://www.rugbydump.com/2012/11/2839/two-big-hits-from-ireland-vs-springboks-mike-mccarthy-and-marcel-coetzee

46 minutes...Trimble takes a crash ball off a line out and sets it up.... Murray then boots a box kick away straight to Pieterson... with no winger to chase...unbelievable

rodders wrote:46 minutes...Trimble takes a crash ball off a line out and sets it up.... Murray then boots a box kick away straight to Pieterson... with no winger to chase...unbelievable

And that was when we had 14 men and should have been holding on to the ball. The lad is a moron.

I think I just broke a rib watching those lol

Yeah, I think Ryan is a very good lineout caller. I thought someone else said it was McCarthy, though?

How did you feel Heaslip captained?

Nipps wrote:Overall i agree with most of your ratings but yo've been way too generous with Trimble. He was useless. He touched the ball twice the whole game and made mistakes both times. How he has 49 caps for Ireland is beyond a joke!

I've just watched a 5 minute spell between 45-50 minutes and he's taken up two successive crash balls, put in a clearance kick in our 22 and put a big hit in on Pieterson.

Yeah if Murray was New Zealander or in any team I was in charge of he would have been hooked for that. It should be illegal to waste ball like that

Trimble is hopeless at international level. Cant see what Zebo did to earn better than a 6. He was serviceable at best. Coped ok under the high ball but his kicking was poor and for all his endevear at trying to run he seldom made a dent. When Ireland did throw it out wide they went backwards. SA were just poor in the first half. When they raised their game a notch in the second half Ireland were powerless.

Yep, there were some awesome tackles in that match.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I must say some of this confuses me greatly Rodders.

Well I am short sighted and was watching from the upper tier....mind started wandering in the second half too......

rodders wrote:

Nipps wrote:Overall i agree with most of your ratings but yo've been way too generous with Trimble. He was useless. He touched the ball twice the whole game and made mistakes both times. How he has 49 caps for Ireland is beyond a joke!

I've just watched a 5 minute spell between 45-50 minutes and he's taken up two successive crash balls, put in a clearance kick in our 22 and put a big hit in on Pieterson.

Those two phases of play p!ssed me off something mighty. It is the exact same double phase move done within 2 minutes of each other what were they thinking!?!

"Let's try this move!
Hmmm didn't work.....feck we'll give it another bash!"



Also, I am a fan of Trimble's and the carries were good but his kick there was appalling. There was no fullback at home for S.Africa and he kicked it and it just made it out of our 22. I thought that was really quite bad

Trimble wasn't great but people need to get the blinkers off. We didn't create a single overlap in 80 minutes. The forward ball carriers struggled to break the gainline, our scrum half didn't give quick service and our 10-12-13 axis created pretty much nothing.

Hardly the environment to judge a winger. Trimble made a few mistakes but also took a few crash balls and put in at least one big hit. He, Sexton and Bowe were the only who backs who weren't bullied physically by their bok counterparts.

McCarthy did ok, but an 'unreal' performance? Thats just silly. He did fine, though he allowed the South Africans to get up in front of him in a couple of lineouts but that was understandable. His ball carrying wasn't very effective, although that could be levelled at alot of players in truth. He put in some good hits, but 8.5 out of 10? Thats just silly. He probably had about a 7 out of 10 at best.

I though Strauss had a pretty poor game in truth. It may have been the occasion.

I thought the backrow functioned very well as a unit, but they all carried the ball poorly. You would expect that from Henry as it is not his game. I said POM wasn't physical enough at european level, despite the protestations of 606v2's gruesome twosome, and so it proved. However he and Henry worked very well together on the deck and turnovers from what I remember owed credit to both of them. I don't know how ESPN claimed Henry had no steals as he clearly had one about 20 minutes in, and another before half time, and I thought POM stole three and not two. POM just needs to develop physically to get up to international standard but I found the performance of 6 and 7 to be very encouraging. Heaslip's ball carrying just is not effective enough, but he worked very hard in close quarters.

Ross is an embarrassment. This guy is a professional athlete and can't last 60 minutes. That isn't acceptable.

D'Arcy offers nothing to Ireland, and even his defence is not good enough any more. Earls just gave a performance that proved me and others right. Great in broken play, not a bloody clue about how to play as a centre. Overlaps butchered, simple passes diabolical. I thought Rodders he defended well enough, but he isn't a centre.

Zebo did all that could be asked of him, but nothing more. Passable.

Murray's passing wasn't great, but his main problem is not bad passing. It's bad decisions. I don't actually he knows what he is doing. He doesn't know when we need quick ball and when we need to slow it down. He doesn't know when to kick, and he isn't aware of where his players are on the pitch. I actually thought, bar the Metro debacle, he had improved for Munster this season, but this was a huge step back for him.

Anyway, we are going to be third seeds in a couple of weeks. In four years we will be officially worse than when Kidney took over. This is out worst run in professional rugby. I fail to see how it can be justified and how it is acceptable given the players we have.

Gordy wrote:Ireland is hopeless at international level. Cant see what Zebo did to earn better than a 6. He was serviceable at best. Coped ok under the high ball but his kicking was poor and for all his endevear at trying to run he seldom made a dent. When Ireland did throw it out wide they went backwards. SA were just poor in the first half. When they raised their game a notch in the second half Ireland were powerless.

Fixed that for you lad.

I suspect Neil Best was sitting at home loving those hits Biltong, remembering when he permanently straightened Lote Tuqiri's dreadlocks

Big scrum from Bent on 71 mins....

Since we are in a video watching mood, anyone else notice how the ref and commentators totally got the call wrong about Pienaar knocking on in the tackle against redden?

http://www.viddler.com/v/faff8ef0

I uploaded it to prove DOD wrong after he told me to go to specsavers...

Shambolic attack there on 74 minutes.... players all over the place with no clue what to do....

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:McCarthy did ok, but an 'unreal' performance? Thats just silly. He did fine, though he allowed the South Africans to get up in front of him in a couple of lineouts but that was understandable. His ball carrying wasn't very effective, although that could be levelled at alot of players in truth. He put in some good hits, but 8.5 out of 10? Thats just silly. He probably had about a 7 out of 10 at best.

McCarthy was flooring guys in defence and he ran over one of the Saffas in the second half with ball in hand. He missed one lineout and it was a timing issue. His side of the scrum did really well. I don't see what more we could ask of him if I am honest.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:I though Strauss had a pretty poor game in truth. It may have been the occasion.

Fair enough, I don't agree as he made 2 turnovers, his throwing bar 2 out of 13 was on the money and he carried better than most bar Healy and McCarthy.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:I thought the backrow functioned very well as a unit, but they all carried the ball poorly. You would expect that from Henry as it is not his game. I said POM wasn't physical enough at european level, despite the protestations of 606v2's gruesome twosome, and so it proved. However he and Henry worked very well together on the deck and turnovers from what I remember owed credit to both of them. I don't know how ESPN claimed Henry had no steals as he clearly had one about 20 minutes in, and another before half time, and I thought POM stole three and not two. POM just needs to develop physically to get up to international standard but I found the performance of 6 and 7 to be very encouraging. Heaslip's ball carrying just is not effective enough, but he worked very hard in close quarters.

Disagree but you've spelled out your point pretty well I just don't think POM in particular was up to the race, Heaslip wasn't good and Henry was better than the pair.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Ross is an embarrassment. This guy is a professional athlete and can't last 60 minutes. That isn't acceptable.

100% agree. As a coach though they should know this and say, this lad is now a liability to us on the pitch, get him off. Really poor coaching. Ross was dripping sweat (more like pouring) in the 25th minute.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:D'Arcy offers nothing to Ireland, and even his defence is not good enough any more. Earls just gave a performance that proved me and others right. Great in broken play, not a bloody clue about how to play as a centre. Overlaps butchered, simple passes diabolical. I thought Rodders he defended well enough, but he isn't a centre.

I thought Darcy did well in the first half and then just turned to mush. He carried for more yards than anyone else. Murray really didn't help him out either. Earls was so poor until he was in broken play.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Zebo did all that could be asked of him, but nothing more. Passable.

Zebo was great I thought. 0 tackles missed. 1 high ball out of 5 missed. Kicked far albeit aimlessly and linked with Bowe well coming inside little jinks and twists around guys. I hated Zebo last season due to his tunnel vision and was sceptical of him at 15 due to positioning but I think he did really well.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Murray's passing wasn't great, but his main problem is not bad passing. It's bad decisions. I don't actually he knows what he is doing. He doesn't know when we need quick ball and when we need to slow it down. He doesn't know when to kick, and he isn't aware of where his players are on the pitch. I actually thought, bar the Metro debacle, he had improved for Munster this season, but this was a huge step back for him.

Poor scrumhalf. He relys on his physicality too much. Can't do the necessaries of the position at all.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Anyway, we are going to be third seeds in a couple of weeks. In four years we will be officially worse than when Kidney took over. This is out worst run in professional rugby. I fail to see how it can be justified and how it is acceptable given the players we have.

+1

clivemcl wrote:Since we are in a video watching mood, anyone else notice how the ref and commentators totally got the call wrong about Pienaar knocking on in the tackle against redden?

http://www.viddler.com/v/faff8ef0

I uploaded it to prove DOD wrong after he told me to go to specsavers...

There ya are! I could have sworn it was a knock on too. He just hit Reddans arm

Chris Henry, despite not being a ball carrier made more metres than either of POM or Heaslip and made more tackles than both combined. I thought he was excellent.

Great game from Healy. Our best player for sure followed by Bowe. McCarthy did ok but there's a bit of hyperbole there with his performance I think.

Strauss did ok but was bullied physically by his ex-countrymen. Took a real boshing about the place.

Not jibing here Rodders mo chara but why do you not think McCarthy played that well?

No I think he did well, relatively speaking but I think he was part of a lineout which malfuntioned in the first half and a tight 5 that were demolished in the second.

Healy apart I don't think any of our tight 5 should be too happy after the bullying they got.

What was clear from the upper tier was how easly SA were getting over the gainline and how much we were struggling too.

We tried to take on the slow ball kings with slow ball and came off very much second best.

I feel like I have to watch the game again to comment on the forwards.

I was sat directly behind the posts; this is the best position for assessing the backs play but the worst for assessing the forwards. The good new is I got an insight into just how lateral, unimaginative and downright impotent our backline is that you don't get with TV coverage.

And it made me too depressed to want to watch the game again to comment on the forwards.

I'm with Rodders on this. McCarthy played quite well, but was certainly not our best player. His carrying was fine, but the entire backrow, Strauss and Healy carried more. That in itself doesn't mean anything unless it was effective. I thought Healy carried more effectively, as did Henry. Ireland had four offloads in the tackle, Henry was responsible for one and gave us a little bit more forward momentum. Again, McCarthy did quite well, a 6.5/7 out of ten performance. He was one of our better players but I thought Healy and Bowe were better. Perhaps Henry was well. With Ryan's lacklustre start to the season, if POC is fit for Argentina it gives Kidney something to think about. Well it would, if he had more than half a brain.

I thought our attacking play was shocking...I've seen it on TV but to watch it in real life is something to behold. The contrast to the speed and skill levels at provincial level is marked.

In fact I've seen better attacking play and rugby nouse down at my local AIB div 3 club.

rodders wrote:I thought our attacking play was shocking...I've seen it on TV but to watch it in real life is something to behold. The contrast to the speed and skill levels at provincial level is marked.

In fact I've seen better attacking play and rugby nouse down at my local AIB div 3 club.

Maybe Penny was right to sent Hanrahan down there to earn his battle scars?

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:I'm with Rodders on this. McCarthy played quite well, but was certainly not our best player. His carrying was fine, but the entire backrow, Strauss and Healy carried more. That in itself doesn't mean anything unless it was effective. I thought Healy carried more effectively, as did Henry. Ireland had four offloads in the tackle, Henry was responsible for one and gave us a little bit more forward momentum. Again, McCarthy did quite well, a 6.5/7 out of ten performance. He was one of our better players but I thought Healy and Bowe were better. Perhaps Henry was well. With Ryan's lacklustre start to the season, if POC is fit for Argentina it gives Kidney something to think about. Well it would, if he had more than half a brain.

Agreed, Touhy should already be giving him more than enough to think about but as you already pointed out deccie can't think

I think he looked really good and was one of our standout performers.
His tackling was huge, he was pretty good in the ruck I thought. He did lose one lineout but he took 5 I think. His carrying wasn't immense but there were a few examples where he did well there too

neilthom7 wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:I'm with Rodders on this. McCarthy played quite well, but was certainly not our best player. His carrying was fine, but the entire backrow, Strauss and Healy carried more. That in itself doesn't mean anything unless it was effective. I thought Healy carried more effectively, as did Henry. Ireland had four offloads in the tackle, Henry was responsible for one and gave us a little bit more forward momentum. Again, McCarthy did quite well, a 6.5/7 out of ten performance. He was one of our better players but I thought Healy and Bowe were better. Perhaps Henry was well. With Ryan's lacklustre start to the season, if POC is fit for Argentina it gives Kidney something to think about. Well it would, if he had more than half a brain.

Agreed, Touhy should already be giving him more than enough to think about but as you already pointed out deccie can't think

We can change players all we want but I doubt it will make much of a difference.
Kidney must go, if we want to see this team improve.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:I'm with Rodders on this. McCarthy played quite well, but was certainly not our best player. His carrying was fine, but the entire backrow, Strauss and Healy carried more. That in itself doesn't mean anything unless it was effective. I thought Healy carried more effectively, as did Henry. Ireland had four offloads in the tackle, Henry was responsible for one and gave us a little bit more forward momentum. Again, McCarthy did quite well, a 6.5/7 out of ten performance. He was one of our better players but I thought Healy and Bowe were better. Perhaps Henry was well. With Ryan's lacklustre start to the season, if POC is fit for Argentina it gives Kidney something to think about. Well it would, if he had more than half a brain.

Agreed, Touhy should already be giving him more than enough to think about but as you already pointed out deccie can't think

We can change players all we want but I doubt it will make much of a difference.
Kidney must go, if we want to see this team improve.

+1

I was gutted for Touhy but McCarthy justified his selection with a good performance. I just think it needs to be kept in context...he fronted up personally but our lineout faltered and our pack was shunted around like schoolboys in the second half.

Healy was a man apart in the front 5. World class again from him.

Henry was the pick of the backrowers and Bowe looked a class above in a very toothless backline.

The problem is a collective one though. Its about selection and tactics rather than individuals...something a few people on here don't get.

Selection and tactics often go hand in hand. For instance if you select Murray you are not going to be able to play a quick game out the backs. If you select Earls you won't win many collisions in the midfield.

Walk away Deccie

In a way the injuries are good thing.

I genuinely think POC, Ferris, POC, BOD and Best would have gotten out of jail last night. However that would have masked that this team have no gameplan, no direction and the coaches have no vision or tactical knowledge.

Individual brilliance has saved our bacon for too long. It's time to bring in a new coaching regime who can come up with an effective gameplan and pick the right players to implement it.

If moneys an issue give me a ring IRFU, I'll coach the side for a very reasonable rate, yes I don't technically have the credentials but I'd counter that with I can't be worse than Kidney is right now, I'm sure I could find plenty of others on here willing to volunteer their time as my assistants.