Ireland XV vs Fiji, Match Thread and Build-Up

[Notch]

First topic message reminder :

Looking ahead to this game, Eoin Reddan is a doubt apparently but there are no other new injury concerns. Ferris and O'Connell are confirmed out of this and next week.

I've already talked about the issue of this game not being considered a full international which can be found HERE and we should should probably try and keep discussion of that issue to the relevant thread.

I'm very much of the opinion that we should largely keep the same team. I don't see how wholesale changes are going to help prepare the firsts for Argentina. There should of course be a few tweaks (please put Earls back in the back three) but this team needs time on the pitch together. Of course, I think our problems run deeper than a lack of pitch time together but we're in a desperate situation here. We need to beat Argentina and this game has to be treated as a dry run for the week after.

[tecphobe]

However rodders in the wc QF we had our very best players and what happened was Wales stopped us at source. Its not just Ireland but Irish teams that have been sussed out.

Re Clermont..they are on a quest and god help.anyone who gets in their way this year

Its pretty easy to suss Ireland out under Kidney though. There is just no imagination in our attack whatsoever.

I don't disagree that we need something new, I do disagree with the idea its all kidneys fault.

No its not i will forever be greatful to him for 2009. However where i expected him to be liberated by the grand slam win he went back into his shell and became more conservative. I'm not saying he need to scrap the whole plan it does need tweeking to introduce a bit more vairety. The pattern of play are incredibly similar for the last few years we have a tendenancy to lose all depth and positioning after 2-3 phases of play. were actually at our most dangerous of lineouts and set plays the longer the play goes on and more phases we go through we become a danger to ourselves.

[Gibson]

You are right DOD the Ospreys did find a way to shut down Leinsters attacking gameplan using the blitz defence, and getting the edge in the scrum but most teams, including Clermont haven't been able to do the same. SOB is the key carrier for Leinster and has been missing in most of those occaisions. Leinster do have that plan B from the bench with that home team/away team thing they do.... with a full deck they have most of their bases covered.

There is a solution to beating the likes of Wales but we haven't been able to do it with the players we've picked.

With respect Rodders... Bollox.

Leinster and O's, have had a good battle in the PRO12. They won the Grand Final, twice, in our shop. Pishes me off. But, if we had to do them at the RDS, when it really mattered, in the HC? With a TBP?

Yes. We'd ate them.

Just to note Gibson is now past his bedtime and needs his meds..he ignores the fact that they really wanted it this year and lost...lucky they haven't met the o"s on the hc

Ive had the meds, thanks darlin.

But seriously, we'd ate them. And Munster. Most all of the rest too, besides ASM & Toulouse.

ASM are on a mission. They are stronger and wiser this year. I agree Decco. Its their Cup to lose(Toulouse?) this year, I feel. Love to be the Final with them though.

And beat them. Again. In Dublin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4b48Jx7Un0

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

Ah jeez hook that's to long for this time, couldn't you wait until the morning

My wife always says that to me. Length is my curse.

Like I said..you need to wait until the morning

Don't tell me you've got one of her 'headaches' DOD? A man has needs! Now you understand my internet search history!

[Don Alfonso]

Well done "Ireland XV". Nice to have a wee bit of crack before we wheel the big guns out again and get on with the serious job of losing to all and sundry.

Personally, I thought Madigan showed against the Ospreys why he isn't taken seriously as an international 10. I.e. zero game management skills. Fantastic, slinky runner. But to do that all the time, rather than occasionally kick for touch or do some less glamorous work explains a lot for me. He looked lost.

Enjoyed Keith Wood's suggestions après-game. "Darren Cave should come in - but not at the position we saw tonight, as that would see him replace a Munster player. Let's move him to 12. Also, Henderson shoudl come in, but not at the expense of POM, who is the incumbent 6. Instead, he should replace Henry at 7." Thanks, Keith. Keep reaching for that Red Rainbow.

Zebo's ecstatic reaction when Gilroy scored his second try puts all of our petty provinicial squabbling to shame. I very much include myself in that.

[LeinsterFan4life]

However rodders in the wc QF we had our very best players and what happened was Wales stopped us at source. Its not just Ireland but Irish teams that have been sussed out.

Re Clermont..they are on a quest and god help.anyone who gets in their way this year

Its pretty easy to suss Ireland out under Kidney though. There is just no imagination in our attack whatsoever.

Ireland are a poor mans Munster, in much the way Ulster are a poor mans SA...Ospreys who a poor mans Wales still have the edge over Leinster who are a poor mans NZ and a rich mans Ireland.

The O's dont have the edge over us. They beat us by a point when we were down to 14 men for 20 minutes of the game in 20 degrees heat. We were really unlucky in that game.

[LeinsterFan4life]

Well done "Ireland XV". Nice to have a wee bit of crack before we wheel the big guns out again and get on with the serious job of losing to all and sundry.

Personally, I thought Madigan showed against the Ospreys why he isn't taken seriously as an international 10. I.e. zero game management skills. Fantastic, slinky runner. But to do that all the time, rather than occasionally kick for touch or do some less glamorous work explains a lot for me. He looked lost.

Enjoyed Keith Wood's suggestions après-game. "Darren Cave should come in - but not at the position we saw tonight, as that would see him replace a Munster player. Let's move him to 12. Also, Henderson shoudl come in, but not at the expense of POM, who is the incumbent 6. Instead, he should replace Henry at 7." Thanks, Keith. Keep reaching for that Red Rainbow.

Zebo's ecstatic reaction when Gilroy scored his second try puts all of our petty provinicial squabbling to shame. I very much include myself in that.

You should watch Madigans performance against Munster in thomand park. That might change your mind about him. Every player has their off day.

[Standulstermen]

Keith wood was shown up tonight. He paused for so long before saying Henrys name too. It's was quite funny.

Hookisms

Yes SBW and nonu are talented players and indeed latter was dropped from the all blacks and told to work on his distributing skills after this initial breakthrough but the primary role of an effective 12 is to present a carrying threat. It can be done through trickery and footwork (a la paddy Wallace ) but it is much harder to do that at international level. The reason SBW is so effective is that he goes into contact on his own terms and is able therein to free himself for the offload.

It's not insurmountable but it is becoming rarer and rarer. That's why I like the look of JJ at 10. I like the look of him anywhere in truth and can't wait to see him come through,

[Don Alfonso]

And every dog has his day.

I saw the Munster game, thanks. One was at home, one wasn't. One involved a dominant pack, one didn't.

[LeinsterFan4life]

And every dog has his day.

I saw the Munster game, thanks. One was at home, one wasn't. One involved a dominant pack, one didn't.

Madigan has a lot more good days than bad, sure He's one of our most talented players. Ive never seen anyone who can pass a ball as good as he can.

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

Keith wood was shown up tonight. He paused for so long before saying Henrys name too. It's was quite funny.

Hookisms

Yes SBW and nonu are talented players and indeed latter was dropped from the all blacks and told to work on his distributing skills after this initial breakthrough but the primary role of an effective 12 is to present a carrying threat. It can be done through trickery and footwork (a la paddy Wallace ) but it is much harder to do that at international level. The reason SBW is so effective is that he goes into contact on his own terms and is able therein to free himself for the offload.

It's not insurmountable but it is becoming rarer and rarer. That's why I like the look of JJ at 10. I like the look of him anywhere in truth and can't wait to see him come through,

Sorry Stand, I understand where you are coming from, but it's ultimately nonsense. Who says a 12 must be a ball carrier? We don't have anyone who can carry the ball except for Downey so we need to look at alternatives. An effective 12 could do very little carrying and make space for others with a sidestep, a sharp change of pace. Just because most other nations have a brute at 12 doesn't mean we have to. Again, we have finite resources. Let's look at what we have and then play to their strengths. If we don't have a brutish 12 then we need an alternative. We need to be more than simply sheep trying to do what other countries do and try and stamp our style of play. Too often we say that a certain player is too small for a position because of other 12 in world rugby. I thought the best 12 in Irish rugby before he got injured last season was Luke Fitzgerald. He was superb at opening other defences without being a crach ball merchant. We need to think along those lines.

[Gibson]

[LeinsterFan4life]

Keith wood was shown up tonight. He paused for so long before saying Henrys name too. It's was quite funny.

Hookisms

Yes SBW and nonu are talented players and indeed latter was dropped from the all blacks and told to work on his distributing skills after this initial breakthrough but the primary role of an effective 12 is to present a carrying threat. It can be done through trickery and footwork (a la paddy Wallace ) but it is much harder to do that at international level. The reason SBW is so effective is that he goes into contact on his own terms and is able therein to free himself for the offload.

It's not insurmountable but it is becoming rarer and rarer. That's why I like the look of JJ at 10. I like the look of him anywhere in truth and can't wait to see him come through,

Sorry Stand, I understand where you are coming from, but it's ultimately nonsense. Who says a 12 must be a ball carrier? We don't have anyone who can carry the ball except for Downey so we need to look at alternatives. An effective 12 could do very little carrying and make space for others with a sidestep, a sharp change of pace. Just because most other nations have a brute at 12 doesn't mean we have to. Again, we have finite resources. Let's look at what we have and then play to their strengths. If we don't have a brutish 12 then we need an alternative. We need to be more than simply sheep trying to do what other countries do and try and stamp our style of play. Too often we say that a certain player is too small for a position because of other 12 in world rugby. I thought the best 12 in Irish rugby before he got injured last season was Luke Fitzgerald. He was superb at opening other defences without being a crach ball merchant. We need to think along those lines.

Darcy in his prime always broke the gain line using his step. He always made ground that he had no right to.

[Gibson]

[Standulstermen]

D'arcy had massive power in his legs. He has since lost a lot of it. Hookisms if your 12 can't carry ball (and thus threaten the gainline) then all he is doing is shovelling it along and a defence can recognise that. Downey can carry ball but doesn't distribute. Luke Marshall can carry the ball as he showed tonight.

You seem incapable of understanding the point. I'm not saying every 12 has to be 6ft 6 and 18 stones but they absolutely have to threaten the gainline and to do that you have to be physical. If JJ can carry like Marshall did tonight at 12 then great but you need power (look at the size of marshalls legs/same with d'arcy).

I don't see hanrahan developing that way and to be honest, if he tried, it might be to the detriment of his other attributes. That's why I think he will ultimately go to 10

[Notch]

However rodders in the wc QF we had our very best players and what happened was Wales stopped us at source. Its not just Ireland but Irish teams that have been sussed out.

Re Clermont..they are on a quest and god help.anyone who gets in their way this year

Its pretty easy to suss Ireland out under Kidney though. There is just no imagination in our attack whatsoever.

Our whole plan in the quarter-final was give it to Ferris and SOB and run over them. In this era of video analysis and rigorous tactical preparation... anything other than saying 'tackle low' would have been overkill.

No Plan B.

[John Cregan]

What a pity last night wasn't a full international. Shame on whoever allowed that to happen.

[rodders]

D'arcy had massive power in his legs. He has since lost a lot of it. Hookisms if your 12 can't carry ball (and thus threaten the gainline) then all he is doing is shovelling it along and a defence can recognise that. Downey can carry ball but doesn't distribute. Luke Marshall can carry the ball as he showed tonight.

You seem incapable of understanding the point. I'm not saying every 12 has to be 6ft 6 and 18 stones but they absolutely have to threaten the gainline and to do that you have to be physical. If JJ can carry like Marshall did tonight at 12 then great but you need power (look at the size of marshalls legs/same with d'arcy).

I don't see hanrahan developing that way and to be honest, if he tried, it might be to the detriment of his other attributes. That's why I think he will ultimately go to 10

Agree 100% stand....not sure that Hanaran can't break the line with his quick feet and pace but the essence of your post is spot on. Marshall can carry and distribute though, which exactly what you need at inside center.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

This team is a bit dreamland, I know it won't happen and it definitely shouldn't for next week but with everyone fit (ha chances) my team for the 6N would be

Healy-best-bent
Poc-McCarthy
Ferris-heaslip-sob
Redden-sexton
Marshall-Bowe
Zebo-Kearney-earls

Strauss-kilcoyne-Ross-Ryan-Henderson-Marshall-Jackson-gilroy

[rodders]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1114/1224326574218.html

Great piece by Quinlan on the SA game:

It doesn’t always work that way in rugby but if the bigger team is smart and if it uses its size properly, it will win most of the time. When you’re continually running at very big guys, when you’re getting tackled by them and mauled by them, it takes a huge amount out of your legs. When you’re not able to break the gainline, you don’t make any ground. Not only does that sap your energy, it saps your will.

Was very disappointed with Cronin yesterday. Lineout was a bit of a shambles and he didn't do enough around the park.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I agree on that, Cronin was poor. He's not huge and isn't going to be hitting rucks as effectively as others so you want to see him with his hands on the ball as often as possible and that didn't happen coupled with poor lineout throwing. Poor.

Thought Tuohy was quite quiet too and Hurley was largely anonymous.

[rodders]

Yeah Touhy did well in the Lineout and put in some big hits but wasn't really as effective with his carrying as I'd have hoped. Hasn't done enough to leapfrog DOC or McCarthy.

Hurley didn't do anything wrong but don't recall him doing much of note. Muldoon was another who didn't stand out.

Generally the pack were disappointing. It makes the backs performance all the more impressive. Murray also did very well as he wasn't getting enough protection at the rucks from his forwards.

It wasn't perfect yesterday but that was genuinely the best back play I've seen from an Ireland side in a long long time. Probably since Italy in Rome 2007.

People will try and downplay the significance on the basis of the poor opposition but I think if we'd put our senior backline behind that pack they wouldn't have scored as many as the young guns did yesterday.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Yes credit where credit is due, Murray played much better, his passing wasn't perfect but it was significantly improved. Some of his kicking was quite intelligent as well.

I thought Henderson and Heaslip had a good game but that was basically it from our pack I felt.

I must say I'd worry if we put out DOC and McCarthy against the Argies that is the exact opposite of balance and if the Argies decide to start moving the ball around then these guys may find it tricky keeping up where as Ryan would have very little trouble with it.

I would agree with some here saying Marshall should start 12, his carrying in contact was excellent (and what ever about Fiji as a team, they are physical) he also got a couple of nice offloads our of contact. His main advantage is that he steps powerfully through contact, he's attacking "the branches not the trunk" and therefor can make more yards in contact. Despite the step which takes him left or right his momentum is always taking him in the right direction.

I really hope he is paired with Cave or Bowe as I really don't see him and Earls making a good partnership at all.

Any word on Sexton?

[rodders]

Another quick point on Marshall and also Cave is their running lines....they straighten or step in (like BOD) and when there is space they look to move the ball quickly along the line.

By contrast D'arcy has a habit of trying to run around the the 12 and up through the 13 channel but no longer has the gas to make the clean break and Earls nearly always runs an outside arc. This really cuts down the space for the wings and one of the reasons I feel it's a poor combination.

[Standulstermen]

Tuohy didnt do enough unfortunately. I thought Cronin was our worst player and essentially should have got our yellow card. Henry got one for a first offence. Cronin gave away 3 (2 in quick succession iirc).

Kilcoyne did enough for me to suggest he can place court. Ross is seriously worrying me with his form.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Kilcoyne didn't do much in my eyes. Ross is getting poorer IMO. He needs to up it majorally.

[Rory_Gallagher]

I was really disappointed by the entire front row actually.

[MrsP]

Someone asked what the attendance was like.

The IRFU site says just over 17,000.

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

D'arcy had massive power in his legs. He has since lost a lot of it. Hookisms if your 12 can't carry ball (and thus threaten the gainline) then all he is doing is shovelling it along and a defence can recognise that. Downey can carry ball but doesn't distribute. Luke Marshall can carry the ball as he showed tonight.

You seem incapable of understanding the point. I'm not saying every 12 has to be 6ft 6 and 18 stones but they absolutely have to threaten the gainline and to do that you have to be physical. If JJ can carry like Marshall did tonight at 12 then great but you need power (look at the size of marshalls legs/same with d'arcy).

I don't see hanrahan developing that way and to be honest, if he tried, it might be to the detriment of his other attributes. That's why I think he will ultimately go to 10

No they don't, that's limited thinking. Ulster are effective using Trimble and Bowe running hard lines in the 12 channel. Wallace doesn't always 'threaten the gainline', but he can create space for others rather easily with a miss pass or his good distribution. Wallace isn't physical and is immensely effective. Fainga'a or McCabe aren't hugely physical but effective at 12 due to their other strengths. If we are lucky to find a 12 who is physical and an effective distributer then all the better. Luke Marshall might be that player. But to say a 12 must be physical is so limited. I'd rather a 12 was effective in whatever capacity.

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

I was really disappointed by the entire front row actually.

I agree. Kilcoyne looks unfit and overweight. Ross is definitely those things. The fact that we have to rely on Ross is embarrassing. Rugby players are supposed to be athletes. Ross can barely last 50 minutes and offers nothing around the pitch. We play with a 7 man pack and then wonder why we sometimes get over powered.

[LeinsterFan4life]

I was really disappointed by the entire front row actually.

I agree. Kilcoyne looks unfit and overweight. Ross is definitely those things. The fact that we have to rely on Ross is embarrassing. Rugby players are supposed to be athletes. Ross can barely last 50 minutes and offers nothing around the pitch. We play with a 7 man pack and then wonder why we sometimes get over powered.

Dont worry Leinster have 3 new TH's coming through in Hagan, Moore and Furlong. Moore and Furlong look to have the most potential ,especially Furlong. He looks like he could be a star after his performance at the u20 WC.

[Standulstermen]

Wallace is effective at heineken level but has been historically catastrophic in green (albeit he has been treated shabbily too).

Paddy can carry at heineken level and indeed ulster have used him on the crash plenty if times. It does not work for him at the top level though.

We are agreeing with the style of player we want but unless you threaten the gainline you are wasted in an international back line. Look at ROG against Wales at the RWC. Gatland knew he wasn't a threat to the gainline and pushed his outside defence up like lightning which caused all our problems despite have a massive terrtorial advantage throughout that game.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I'd go so far as to say the whole front 5 were fairly disappointing they should have been walking all over Fiji

[Standulstermen]

Apparently fijis scrum did ok against England too although I didn't see it. I think kilcoyne did as much as court ever did in green so should be kept. Cronin will be retained but when Rory is fit he is comfortably 3rd choice and sherry will hopefully push him

[profitius]

Regarding the front row. The biggest worry is Cronins darts. If he cannot throw straight or accurately then it doesn't matter if he makes a line break or 2 a game. He will have a negative impact on the team. Cronin and Strauss are not very big players either but at least Strauss can throw. Best is still no 1 hooker.

Ross looks overweight but he is a tighthead and if theres one position you can make allowances for its tighthead. Kilcoyne might not look fit but he is and he is noted as having a high workrate. He also has been part of a dominant Munster scrum lately so he is rapidly improving.

[Rory_Gallagher]

I reckon this might shock a few people, but does anyone think Marshall and Earls could make a good centre partnership for Ireland? I have stayed fairly silent regarding Earls at 13, because I am unsure as to whether or not he could actually thrive there with the right man inside him. His distribution has improved, that much is certain. He was also very dangerous against SA. My main criticism is that he must be more aware of the options around him, but he is surely improving in that regard.

Essentially it is between Cave and Earls for the 13 shirt for the near future until somebody else really puts their hand up. BOD is near his end whether we want to admit it or not, so the question is who gets the shirt next? Earls offers more threat to the opposition, and if he can improve his awareness our outside backs would get more chances.

What other young options are there? I would like to see Griffin fulfil his potential but he isn't setting the world alight. Maybe Robbie Henshaw is the guy to watch, apparently he is playing at 13 for the U20s.

[gleesonisgod]

This team is a bit dreamland, I know it won't happen and it definitely shouldn't for next week but with everyone fit (ha chances) my team for the 6N would be

Healy-best-bent
Poc-McCarthy
Ferris-heaslip-sob
Redden-sexton
Marshall-Bowe
Zebo-Kearney-earls

Strauss-kilcoyne-Ross-Ryan-Henderson-Marshall-Jackson-gilroy

Schtick in BOD with Bowe and Fitzy on the wing, Earls on the bench.... man we hav some serious strength in the back 3....any word on Fitzgeralds injury?

[LeinsterFan4life]

This team is a bit dreamland, I know it won't happen and it definitely shouldn't for next week but with everyone fit (ha chances) my team for the 6N would be

Healy-best-bent
Poc-McCarthy
Ferris-heaslip-sob
Redden-sexton
Marshall-Bowe
Zebo-Kearney-earls

Strauss-kilcoyne-Ross-Ryan-Henderson-Marshall-Jackson-gilroy

Schtick in BOD with Bowe and Fitzy on the wing, Earls on the bench.... man we hav some serious strength in the back 3....any word on Fitzgeralds injury?

Reports are that he'll be back for either the Glasgow or Zebre match. But you can't really trust these reports anymore.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I wonder where he is going to be used for that game? We do seem short on wingers so I guess there I would like to see him get a number of games at 12.

[clivemcl]

I really feel that the reason the backline did so well at the weekend was familiarity. Club units are an easy way around it if a coach isn't good enough. (Basically benefiting from the coaching at club level instead of doing it yourself).

I think Marshall and Cave both looked so good because they were with each other. Put Cave with DArcy and he wont look as good. Put Marshall with earls he wont look so good.

I would actually stick with Marshall and Cave for Argies.

[rodders]

True Clive but how much more comfortable did Murray look alongside Jackson?

It's very strange that Jackson was taking the ball so flat but Sexton stands so deep when playing for Ireland.

Its hard not to think that Murray is being told to slow things down, like O'Leary did, and Sexton is being coached to stand deeper than at Leinster.

Maybe it was just the opposition but the transformation in Murray was remarkable.

[tecphobe]

True Clive but how much more comfortable did Murray look alongside Jackson?

It's very strange that Jackson was taking the ball so flat but Sexton stands so deep when playing for Ireland.

Its hard not to think that Murray is being told to slow things down, like O'Leary did, and Sexton is being coached to stand deeper than at Leinster.

Maybe it was just the opposition but the transformation in Murray was remarkable.

Id say that it might be a bit of both.

[rodders]

Gilroys second involved some excellent link up play with Zebo too....... I mean how can these guys look so comfortable together but the senior guys who have played together for years look like they've never played together before....

[clivemcl]

So what are we saying, that it wasnt just a different backline we put out on Saturday, but a different gameplan too? Or was it the same gameplan, but the young lads just ignored it??

[tecphobe]

Also due to the nature of the opponents they may have felt uninhibited

[rodders]

I'm saying it was a different backline and a different gameplan. The execution was much better too.

I agree with you about the club combinations but generally the cohesion was so much better across the whole backline.

Like would the senior guys have scored Gilroys 3rd? No because a) theres probably no one in the back line quick enough and b) they'd have kicked the ball away rather than ran from deep.

You can't ignore the context, this was a poor Fiji side and there was nothing riding on this game but it was refreshing to see players play heads up rugby and not be afraid of expressing themselves.

I think a few guys there probably new this would be their last chance in a while in an Ireland jersey and knew they had nothing to loose. Luke Marshall said before the game that the plan was to play structured but instead they really played high tempo attacking rugby.

[rodders]

Muldoon out for a few months with knee ligament damage. Very unfortunate and a huge blow to Connacht.

[rodders]

Thornleys piece:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1119/1224326786373.html

Ironically, it’s highly conceivable that a front-line team would not have won as convincingly as a comparatively carefree side itching to showcase their abilities. Yet it would also make complete sense if Kidney were to revert to last week’s selection virtually en bloc.

There we go then........ He also switched Gilroy to the left wing in the second half....

I'll bet Kidney goes with the same team that faced the boks with Gilroy on the left wing.....

[clivemcl]

Does our moving up to 7th (as a result of Wales losing) make this weekend any less risky? Or can we still drop out? I would say if the top 8 was guaranteed there would be no reason why some of Saturdays performances wouldn't be rewarded against Argies.

[rodders]

No top 8 isn't guaranteed. Samoa, Scotland and Wales can still leapfrog us I think.

I think the biggest risk against Argentina is to be too conservative. We don't have a great kicking game and the team that faced SA didn't creat much with the ball so I think we need to make changes if we want to win.

It's amazing but we seem to have come full circle under Kidney. This time 4 years ago we were going into a crunch game with the Pumas to secure 8th spot for RWC seedings and here we are again.....

[Sin é]

No top 8 isn't guaranteed. Samoa, Scotland and Wales can still leapfrog us I think.

I think the biggest risk against Argentina is to be too conservative. We don't have a great kicking game and the team that faced SA didn't creat much with the ball so I think we need to make changes if we want to win.

It's amazing but we seem to have come full circle under Kidney. This time 4 years ago we were going into a crunch game with the Pumas to secure 8th spot for RWC seedings and here we are again.....

Its interesting how history keeps repeating itself alright. Wales win a GS the year after a RWC, following year they are wooden spoon contenders!


PS - nice of Kidney to save Ulster's bacon against Zebre
Bet you won't be complaining about Kilcoyne starting against the Fijians again and will be damn glad to have him to play against Treviso next weekend

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