Keeping the Wheels on - AKA England's next EPS

First topic message reminder :

After a remarkable finish to the Autumn series Stuart Lancaster and his coaches next mission will be the new years EPS. Chosen in January it will not be open for change until Sep that year (except swaps for injuries) so he'll need to plan well and pick not only on current form but prior experience and future potential.

In the final game of the AI's the starting team that day showed the route that England rugby needs to take on the pitch; hard and aggressive up front with the pack sharing the duties of fetching, carrying and rucking amongst a core group of multi skilled players rather then selecting various specialists for one or two specific roles. In the backs we say a few glimpses of the Catt/Farrel/Lancaster triumvirate in action with Youngs getting some quick ball and kicking well, and the 10 drawing his centres up to the line at pace and actually giving Tuilagi good ball to use. The left wing and full back then create momentum from the back by beating their first man when countering and staying tall in the tackle to wait for support.

Of course there were players who failed to cover themselves in glory like wise others who were never deemed good enough to get a chance or who were only in because of multiple injuries. These I expect to see fall by the road side next year.

The current England Elite Player Squad

Forwards (17)
Props
Alex Corbisiero (London Irish), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Joe Marler (Harlequins), David Wilson (Bath Rugby), Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
Hookers
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Rob Webber (Bath Rugby) Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers), David Paice (London Irish)
Locks
Mouritz Botha (Saracens), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Tom Palmer (London Wasps), Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers) Joe Launchberry (London Wasps)
Flankers
Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers), Phil Dowson (Northampton Saints), Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints) James Haskell (London Wasps)
No 8's
Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby), Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers)


Backs (15)
Scrum Halfs
Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers), Danny Care (Harlequins)
Fly Halfs
Owen Farrell (Saracens), Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers), Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby)
Centers
Anthony Allan (Leicester Tigers), Brad Barritt (Saracens), Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Jordan Turner-Hall (Harlequins), Johnathen Joseph (London Irish) Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)
Wings
Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints), Charlie Sharples (Gloucester Rugby), (Ugo Monye (Harlequins))
Fullbacks
Mike Brown (Harlequins), Ben Foden (Northampton Saints), Alex Goode (Saracens)

Players in italics were the latest changes allowed through injury or retirement (potentially the most likely to lose their spots again).

So to me the bulk of that 32 man squad looks about right, there are still quite a few players that are potentially a little worried about their places now:

Mako Vunipola (only came in for an injured Corbs but didn't look too comfy at times)
Rob Webber (Youngs looked a lot better and Hartley is still first choice)
David Paice (only came in for an injured Webber, didn't play better then Youngs or Hartley)
Mauritz Botha (just not an international lock, shown up completely by Launchberry)
Tom Palmer (anonymous around the park and not good enough at lineout time)
Courtney Lawes (injured a lot, is he big enough to partner Parling or athletic enough to partner Launchberry)
Tom Johnson (just doesn't play the style that England seem to need)
Tom Croft (injured and does his style fit England)
Phil Dowson (over 30 and can't make the match day 23)
James Haskell (Only came in for injuries, not sure if he did enough to stay)
Thomas Waldrom (pushed out of the starting lineup and hardly likely to make the bench)
Lee Dickson (can't make the match day 23)
Anthony Allan (can not make the 23, average club player)
Brad Barritt (bar one game looked out of his depth, potentially a new Noone)
Jordan Turner Hall (Like Barritt but less pace and no real vision, injured at a bad time)
Chris Ashton (A media darling but lazy in defence and pretty anonymous in most games, riding on rep at the moment)
Ugo Monye (only called up for injuries, didn't do enough)
Charlie Sharples (poor defence let him down)
Ben Foden (unlucky with an injury and now has two critical players in front of him)

Now I don't think all of these players will go, but there are a few who are near certainties.

Yappysnap's Elite Player Squad
Forwards (17)
Props
Alex Corbisiero (London Irish), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Joe Marler (Harlequins), David Wilson (Bath Rugby), Nick Wood (Gloucester Rugby)
Hookers
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
Locks
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers), Joe Launchberry (London Wasps), David Attwood (Bath Rugby)
Flankers
Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (London Wasps)
No 8's
Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby), Billy Vunipola (London Wasps)

Backs (15)
Scrum Halfs
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers), Danny Care (Harlequins)
Fly Halfs
Owen Farrell (Saracens), Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers), Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby)
Centers
Brad Barritt (Saracens), Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), George Lowe (Harlequins), Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby), Kyle Eastmond (Bath)
Wings
Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints),Christian Wade (Wasps)
Fullbacks
Mike Brown (Harlequins), Ben Foden (Northampton Saints), Alex Goode (Saracens)

The changes are
David Wilson did enough to get in to the EPS permanently
Nick Wood comes in to replace Vunipola as a trial
Tom Youngs replaces Webber as very real competition for Hartley
Dave Attwood comes in for Palmer to add some bulk and physicality if needed
James Haskell takes Johnsons place as he adds a bit more physicality and covers the back three
Billy Vunipola is trialled in Waldroms place to see his carrying game
Freddue Burns gets a permanent spot for Hodgeson
George Lowe, Billy Twelvetrees and Kyle Eastmond all come in to the squad to trial different attributes in the centres as well as cover the wings if needed.
Christian Wade comes in on the wing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAu9BFSaifE

Here's a great hit from Ashton.

Don't watch too long, or you'll also see a highlight of a fat Kiwi getting nailed too!

Is there any player in world rugby who hasnt wiped out Aplon at some point? I swear theres more videos of big hits on him on youtube than there are of cats doing hilarious things.

Here you go, GeordieFalcon, it's about three seconds into the clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV9c8oorD-0

It's not as big as I remembered it, actually. He goes in on the French hooker, who throws a wild offload. Decent tackle though, certainly credit due.

For what it's worth I'd have him in the side. Top finisher, got a couple in the snow at the weekend, I think.

GeordieFalcon wrote: Rinsure then i need to see that!

Ashton is a cracking winger...i do rate him...but it annoys me when people say Wade (who i think is better than Ashton offensively) cant make the team due to his poor defence..yet Ashton is fine...when he genuinely looks like he doesnt like the physical stuff...the one v NZ was just another in a long line of examples...

He thinks about it too much, you can see when he plays and he's on auto pilot he'll tackle happily but like against NZ when he stops and thinks about it he bottles it.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Is there any player in world rugby who hasnt wiped out Aplon at some point? I swear theres more videos of big hits on him on youtube than there are of cats doing hilarious things.

Ha, probably not. He's certainly one of the smallest players in world rugby, so he's definitely on the receiving end of a lot of big hits. Shouldn't take anything away from Ashton though- he hit him hard and fast, and created a penalty. Can't ask for much more from a kick chase than that.

Rinsure wrote:Here you go, GeordieFalcon, it's about three seconds into the clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV9c8oorD-0

It's not as big as I remembered it, actually. He goes in on the French hooker, who throws a wild offload. Decent tackle though, certainly credit due.

For what it's worth I'd have him in the side. Top finisher, got a couple in the snow at the weekend, I think.

Well Szarzewski(sp) is far too pretty to be a hooker anyway

Surprising turn of pace from Manu there as well.

yappysnap wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote: Rinsure then i need to see that!

Ashton is a cracking winger...i do rate him...but it annoys me when people say Wade (who i think is better than Ashton offensively) cant make the team due to his poor defence..yet Ashton is fine...when he genuinely looks like he doesnt like the physical stuff...the one v NZ was just another in a long line of examples...

He thinks about it too much, you can see when he plays and he's on auto pilot he'll tackle happily but like against NZ when he stops and thinks about it he bottles it.

Same with his attacking play, too. When he's running on instinct, he tends to back himself - when he thinks about it, he tends to make poor choices about what to do. Possibly the only player I've ever seen who should be encouraged to play with brain disengaged.

We had a centre like that at school, used to drink before Saturday games in 6th form as it made him play better. Try it with Ashton?

Im pretty sure Botha was drunk in the SA game

ChequeredJersey wrote:We had a centre like that at school, used to drink before Saturday games in 6th form as it made him play better. Try it with Ashton?

That depends, did the drinking actually help, or did he just imagine he played better...

Well he always played worse on a Wednesday when he didn't drink!

Poorfour wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote: Rinsure then i need to see that!

Ashton is a cracking winger...i do rate him...but it annoys me when people say Wade (who i think is better than Ashton offensively) cant make the team due to his poor defence..yet Ashton is fine...when he genuinely looks like he doesnt like the physical stuff...the one v NZ was just another in a long line of examples...

He thinks about it too much, you can see when he plays and he's on auto pilot he'll tackle happily but like against NZ when he stops and thinks about it he bottles it.

Same with his attacking play, too. When he's running on instinct, he tends to back himself - when he thinks about it, he tends to make poor choices about what to do. Possibly the only player I've ever seen who should be encouraged to play with brain disengaged.

When he doesn't think about it he does a league shoulder barge and gets yellow carded. In Sarries opener against Irish when he was yellow carded for it the camera picked him up looking annoyed. The commentator said he clearly didn't agree with the decision. It looked to me like he said "Every time!" like he was berating himself not the ref.

Saxons Team for the Wolfhounds this weekend

15 Elliot Daly (London Wasps)
14 Christian Wade (London Wasps)
13 Joel Tomkins (Saracens)
12 Jordan Turner-Hall (Harlequins)
11 Tom Biggs (Bath Rugby)
10 George Ford (Leicester Tigers)
9 Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)

1 Nick Wood (Gloucester Rugby)
2 Joe Gray (Harlequins)
3 Paul Doran-Jones (Northampton Saints)
4 Graham Kitchener (Leicester Tigers)
5 George Robson (Harlequins)
6 George Kruis (Saracens)
7 Will Fraser (Saracens)
8 Jordan Crane (Leicester Tigers, captain)

Replacements:
16 Rob Buchanan (Harlequins)
17 Matt Mullan (Worcester Warriors)
18 Shaun Knight (Gloucester Rugby)
19 Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers)
20 Jamie Gibson (London Irish)
21 Joe Simpson (London Wasps)
22 George Lowe (Harlequins)
23 Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby)

I'd prob have gone for Mullan for Wood, Gibson for Kruis, Simpson for Wiggy and Lowe for Tompkins but they're all in the 23. I'm glad it's being used for development rather than filling it with has beens, nearlys and never-weres (JTH, Wiggy and Crane accepted)

Not a bad team, 2 big centres and 2 small wings! I'm glad to see there is a general focus on youth, no point having players in who we know all about already I think.

'...Kitchener'

I like the fact that in England, rugby is still a sport for posh people

Glas a du wrote:'...Kitchener'

I like the fact that in England, rugby is still a sport for posh people

Do we know if there's any family connection to the immortalised Lord who enticed countless numbers of young men to their doom?

I do hope so. I once made up on here as a joke the fact that Ben Foden was related to the family that set up the lorry company, only to be told it was in fact true!

Glas a du wrote:I do hope so. I once made up on here as a joke the fact that Ben Foden was related to the family that set up the lorry company, only to be told it was in fact true!

#

Well i never! Perhaps Tom and Ben are heirs to the fish fortune aswell?!

And maybe Hartley's picking up royalties for his grandfathers book on fly fishing?




Tenuous I know...

Sugarlump wrote:And maybe Hartley's picking up royalties for his grandfathers book on fly fishing?




Tenuous I know...

'Jammy' git... *Hangs head in shame.*