Greatest: Round 2: Choose your 11 & 14

Rules and context here:
https://www.606v2.com/t38622-the-greatest-introduction-the-rules

Previous threads here:
https://www.606v2.com/t38819-greatest-round-2-choose-your-15#1753473

Brief:
• Vote for two players – left and right wing.
• Think about how you wish to group them and the strengths and weaknesses that they have.
• It can be assumed that players in the amateur era would have been just as dominant vis a vis their historical peers if they had followed professional conditioning programmes.

Your shortlist (in no particular order):

1. Jason Robinson
Rest of the World (league) – 1 cap, Great Britain (league) – 12 caps, England (league) – 7 caps
England (union) – 51 caps, British & Irish Lions – 5 caps

If we were dealing in tales of personal transformation alone, it would be hard to deny Billy Whizz a place in the squad. His extraordinary turnaround from a violent, hard-drinking, deeply troubled teenager to born again Christian and dedicated family man is set out in his brutally honest autobiography, ‘Finding My Feet’ and is well worth a few hours of anyone’s time.

People wondered whether Wigan Warriors (the most successful league club in the country) had taken leave of their senses in signing a slight 16 year old but his scoring record of 685 points in only 8 seasons and his mesmeric pace from a standing start made him stand out. In 1993, Robinson played in his first Challenge Cup Final, with Wigan defeating Widnes and later that year at age 19 Robinson was first selected to represent Great Britain on the wing against New Zealand.

After the 1993–94 Rugby Football League season Robinson travelled with defending champions Wigan to Brisbane, playing on the wing in their 1994 World Club Challenge victory over Australian premiers, the Brisbane Broncos. In 1998 Robinson scored Wigan's sole try in Super League's first ever Grand Final, which the Cherry & Whites won. As a result he was awarded the Harry Sunderland Trophy as man-of-the-match. He was also named on the wing in the 1998, 1999 and 2000 Super League Dream Team.

Professionalism in union facilitated his move to Sale Sharks in 2000 and in the 2005/6 season he became the first person to have lifted both the Guinness Premiership and the Super League trophies. A spell with the national union side was inevitable and in making his England debut as a substitute against Italy in February 2001, he became only the second man ever to play rugby union for England after having first played Rugby League for Great Britain (the first having been Barrie-Jon Mather in 1999). He has scored 30 tries in 56 international matches, including a memorable dash to touch down in the 2003 World Cup final against Australia (having played in all seven of England’s World Cup games in 2003).

Although he was also selected for the Lions' 2005 tour of New Zealand (he was excused from travelling with the bulk of the touring party in order to spend time with his wife who was expecting the couple's fourth child), it was the 2001 British and Irish Lions tour to Australia that supplied a number of iconic moments. He was one of the outstanding players in the side that won the first Test in Brisbane 29-13, his stunning ‘in-out’ against Australian fullback Chris Latham being instantly one for the highlight reels. He went on to score another try in the final Test.

Sample footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfblvjqHF00

2. Gerald Davies
Wales – 46 caps, British & Irish Lions – 5 caps

The master of the side step at speed, Gerald Davies made his international debut in December 1966 against Australia in Cardiff, playing in the centre during his early career. In 1969, Welsh coach Clive Rowlands took the brave step of switching his player to the wing, where he believed the greater space would suit him. The result was a bucketload of tries during that year’s tour of Australia and New Zealand and Davies dominated the wing for Wales and the Lions throughout the remainder of his career.

Davies was a keystone in the Wales side that swept all before it in Europe throughout the 70’s and was one of a raft of Welsh players alongside Barry John, Gareth Edwards and JPR Williams to enter into the folklore of both the Lions and Wales. He is perhaps best remembered for his last-gasp score against Scotland in the 1971 Five Nations, crossing in the corner before flanker John Taylor added the extras with the "greatest conversion since Saint Paul," for a 19-17 Wales win. 1971 was Davies’ own personal purple patch - he had missed the previous season by choosing to concentrate on his finals at Cambridge and wasted little time in showing the world what it had missed by scoring five tries as Wales won the Grand Slam.

He carried that form straight into the Lions tour to New Zealand to become the Lions talisman and the attacking weapon that pierced the All Black armour when the stakes and the tension were highest. Davies scored three tries in the Test series and another seven against provincial matches, with his four spectacular efforts against Hawkes Bay proving the ultimate riposte to the brutality of the hosts' approach.

His early score in the third Test - a typical blind-side link-up with Gareth Edwards - gave the Lions the early momentum they needed to build a lead that won them the match and ensured they could not lose the series. What is not spoken about as much are the tries he scored in the second test which were crucial to establishing the Lions’ confidence to take the series in the final game. Although the Lions were well beaten on the scoreboard, it was the late rally of free-flowing rugby led by Davies' second try that gave them the confidence to go for broke from the start of the crucial third Test three weeks later.

Still the standard by which all Welsh wings must judge themselves.

Sample footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIsyE-lTl5E

3. Jonah Lomu
New Zealand – 73 caps

Possibly the first global rugby superstar, his popularity has probably dulled his amazing feats to some degree but that would be a crime – still the youngest ever All Black test player (19 years, 45 days), still the holder of the most tries scored in a World Cup, RWC 95 Player of the Tournament, International Hall of Famer and a Commonwealth Games gold medallist (for 7's). Lomu finished with 185 first class games in which he scored 122 tries. He had 73 games in all for the All Blacks of which 63 were tests.

Considering that for most of his playing days Lomu was under a severe health handicap (a kidney irregularity which became fully blown nephrotic syndrome) it is remarkable that he achieved so much. His illness has also made it a little more understandable that very often Lomu struggled to get anywhere near the exalted heights he reached in his two glory seasons of 1995 and 1999. But in each of those Lomu was sensational, with a physical presence no one has ever quite managed before or since. At his best, which was when he first burst onto the New Zealand rugby scene as an 18-year old in 1994 and then in the two World Cup tournaments, Lomu was virtually unstoppable. Standing 1.96m (about 6ft 5in) and weighing 120kgs (between 18 and 19 stones), Lomu could run 100 metres in around 11 seconds (having clocked 10.8 as a 19 year old schoolboy).

Despite his legendary status, he achieved relatively few honours at the first class level just below internationals. He had 59 Super 12 games - 22 for the Blues in 1996 and 1998 playing in the team which won the inaugural title in 1996, eight for the Chiefs (1999) and 29 for the Hurricanes (between 1999 and 2003). For Counties-Manukau between 1994 and 1999 he played in 28 games and for Wellington from 2000 there were 21 games, with the highlight being the win in the NPC first division final when he scored two of the side's tries.

In 2003 at the International Rugby Players Association's awards ceremony, Lomu was presented with a Special Merit Award for his contribution to the international game - only two players, Jason Leonard and John Eales, had previously received it.

Sample footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsXTa7UCGlk

4. Rupeni Caucaunibuca
NZ Barbarians – 1 cap, French Barbarians – 1 cap, Pacific Islanders – 1 cap, Fiji – 7 caps

There isn’t a more controversial and mercurial individual playing at present than Rupeni. He was first seen laying waste to opponents on the Sevens circuit by Ratu Kitione Vesikula, who recruited him for Tailevu in 2001. After rapidly adapting to the 15-man game, he was quickly snapped up by Northland. An Auckland Blues call-up quickly followed and he notched twice on his Super rugby debut in 2002. His campaign was cut short by injury but upon his return he set about proving himself one of the best wingers in world rugby with some astonishing strike running from deep – his low centre of gravity and short legs meaning an ability to change direction at full tilt that was unique in the Super competition.

The All Blacks tried to tempt him to switch allegiances but he declined, and instead announced himself as an international star with some scintillating displays for his native Fiji in the 2003 World Cup.

He joined Agen the following year and went on to score 65 tries in 108 appearances for the Top 14 outfit over the next five seasons. However, he repeatedly courted controversy during that spell, both with club and country. After a series of no-shows for his national team, he was hit with a one-year ban by the Fijian Rugby Union in 2005 for missing a flight to Samoa, with the player claiming that he had been forced to stay at home because his wife had an infected tooth.

His ban was lifted in May 2006 but he then riled his employers at club level by missing that summer's pre-season training camp. However, it then emerged that he had contracted a tropical virus in his homeland and he eventually returned to France in October. Caucau wasted little time in reminding everyone of his brilliance with a man of the match-winning display in Agen's Heineken Cup victory over Edinburgh.

He was named in the Pacific Islands squad for their November tour but he only played in one game after missing the clash with Wales and then failing to locate his passport in time for the game against Ireland. Caucau suffered a terrible slump in form the following year and he was hit with a three-month ban for testing positive for cannabis following a Top 14 league game against Montauban in March. He ultimately parted company with Agen in 2008 only to rejoin the club after a spell in the wilderness, during which he was linked with a move to Leicester Tigers only for it to allegedly collapse on account of Caucau's failure to turn up for a trial.

He helped Agen win promotion back to the French top flight by notching 13 tries during the 2009/2010 season but was then released by the club after failing to turn up on time for the start of the 2010/2011 campaign. In October it emerged that Caucau had joined reigning Heineken Cup champions Toulouse as a 'medical joker' as they attempted to fill the void left by injured centre Yann David. He enjoyed a successful debut season, helping Toulouse reach the Top 14 final, with the highlight being his brace of tries in the play-offs semi-final win over Clermont Auvergne.

Sample footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6qdM6O26CY

5. David Campese
Australia – 101 caps

101 caps, 64 tries, World Player of the Year 1992 but you had to see him play to understand the magic.

He made his international debut against New Zealand in 1982, confounding and irritating great All Black wing Stu Wilson first with his words (at the pre-match press conference, he wondered out loud who Wilson was) and then with his goose-step. The All Blacks had their revenge on Campese the following year when he was entrusted with the goal-kicking at Sydney Cricket Ground, missing all four of his kicks as the Wallabies lost 18-8.

Campese's attacking brilliance was often counterbalanced by his extravagent risk-taking in defence which occasionally landed him and his team in trouble, never more painfully than against the Lions in 1989 when his blunder cost his side the match and ultimately the series.

But more often he was the inspiration. His "miracle pass" (blind, over his shoulder) to set up a try for Tim Horan against the All Blacks at the 1991 World Cup - which Australia went on to win - epitomised his considerable powers of invention and execution. Following the tournament Campese was named as World Player of the Year in 1992.

He retired in 1996 as the game was making the transition to professionalism and embracing qualities that Campese had long held for himself. Typically, his final act was to announce his wealth to the public, angering amateur purists, but he was never likely to bow out quietly.

It’s not an overstatement to say that Campo re-defined the style of play expected of wingers. Before him, wingers were often just the quick men who caught passes and then sprinted for the line - expected to stay on their wings and wait for the ball to come their way. Campese, however considered it his duty to look for work and scored many tries from all kinds of positions where defences were not expecting a winger to appear. Modern wingers are now all expected to have a higher work rate and are more complete players who have a fuller range of skills than the speed merchants of before. A genuine one-off.

Sample footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rfTcww49zM

6. David Duckham
British & Irish Lions – 3 caps, England – 42 caps

One of the most effective steps in rugby history and one of the first players to make a straight arm fend an attacking weapon, Duckham made 36 starts for England between 1969 and 1976 and many people wonder to this day what he would have achieved had he played for a more dominant national side.

He made his international debut against Ireland at Lansdowne Road in the 1969 Five Nations Championship, lining up in the centres alongside John Spencer, and scored a try in England's 17-15 defeat. From 1971 he was largely preferred on the wing where he would go on to cement his reputation as one of England's best-ever players – his shock of blond hair and wild running style endearing him to fans immediately.

Considered a shining creative light in what could politely be considered a conservative era for the English national side, he would later gain three caps for the British Lions on their victorious 1971 tour of New Zealand scoring a total of 11 tries in 16 appearances. His six try haul for the mid-week side against West Coast/Buller remains a record - which he shares with JJ Williams.

Duckham was one of only two Englishman to feature in the Barbarians' famous 23-11 victory over New Zealand at Cardiff Arms Park alongside compatriot John Pullin. In the first half he made a run that has become part of rugby lore, that brought gasps from a Welsh crowd more accustomed to sledging him from the terraces. When he broke through the All Black defence, he appeared to confuse the commentator, Cliff Morgan, who did not know whether Duckham had sidestepped or dummied. He even sent the cameraman the wrong way - his change of direction sending the camera to the right whilst Duckham disappeared out of shot to the left. After the match he was given the nickname 'Dai' by the Welsh fans because he played like one of their own.

Since retiring from the game Duckham has been awarded the MBE and he is also an Honorary President of the rugby charity Wooden Spoon that improves the lives of disadvantaged children and young people in Britain and Ireland. He only ever played club rugby for his local side Coventry (12 seasons).

For many fans, the right man in the right place at the right time.

Sample footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeRU15B_sZc

I feel Lomu and Robinson were both clinical finishers & are the perfect combination of explosiveness, power and guile.

ALPanorak wrote:I feel Lomu and Robinson were both clinical finishers & are the perfect combination of explosiveness, power and guile.

+1 Robinson was also a good defender unlike Lomu,Caucua and Campese. Although those three were all good enough with the ball for that not to hinder them much! All the options there make up a pretty potent group though.

Gentleman Gerald everytime of anyday sorry

king_carlos wrote:

ALPanorak wrote:I feel Lomu and Robinson were both clinical finishers & are the perfect combination of explosiveness, power and guile.

+1 Robinson was also a good defender unlike Lomu,Caucua and Campese. Although those three were all good enough with the ball for that not to hinder them much! All the options there make up a pretty potent group though.

Possibly but Robinson wasnt in the same league as an attacking wing as the other- at international level- vs caucau yes. But the other two put him well in the shade. so -4 for Robinson.

Lomu/Robinson combo makes you vulnerable to the chip/kick behind on both wings.

I think the list is skewed historically and lacks "modern" wingers. Very surprised not to see Habana on there.

And John Kirwan. In 87 had the best try (Italy) and tackle (Wales):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKouomoWkeo

of the tournament, possibly of ALL world cups. Listen to that commentary...class.

The unique thing about JKs try and all others is he had the entire opposition directly in front of him, and ran straight up to it and throught it. Never been a try like it since that i recall.

Lomu and Robinson.

Taylorman, actually Robinson's strike rate in a less attacking era and supposedly (infamously) much less attacking team is not much lower than those 2 at all (140 points in 51 matches at 0.54 tries per match , vs 315 in 101 for Campese at 0.62 and 185 in 63 for Lomu at 0.59) and several of Robinson's caps were for a poor England side post 2003. I know the stats don't show the whole picture and I never got to see Campese or Lomu in their pomp but it seems that saying they were far better attackers than Billy Whizz is a trifle unfair. Also Robinson played FB (for many) and OC (for some) in some games. I grant he was never the weapon that Lomu could be but he also lacked many of Lomu and Campese's weaknesses.

Stats in the Clive Woodward England era are vastly skewed and deliberately so by Clive the master propaganda artist. Never has a 1st tier team played Georgia, Romania, Spain, Canada and Portugal with such regularity.

ThePantomimeVillain wrote:Stats in the Clive Woodward England era are vastly skewed and deliberately so by Clive the master propaganda artist. Never has a 1st tier team played Georgia, Romania, Spain, Canada and Portugal with such regularity.

Nice to have you back greyghost

I've gone for Robinson and Lomu.

Good candidates but Davies and Campese were the most skillfull.

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

ThePantomimeVillain wrote:Stats in the Clive Woodward England era are vastly skewed and deliberately so by Clive the master propaganda artist. Never has a 1st tier team played Georgia, Romania, Spain, Canada and Portugal with such regularity.

Nice to have you back greyghost

I've gone for Robinson and Lomu.

I missed out the 15 try romp over a Netherlands side including 18 debutants. classy stuff.

ghostie, at least when you were pretending to be learning English it took a while to suss you out. You're straight into the England bashing now which is a bit transparent mate.

You're also wading in to try and wreck threads that the OP has spent a while setting up.

maestegmafia wrote:Good candidates but Davies and Campese were the most skillfull.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Good candidates but Davies and Campese were the most skillfull.

Players like Shane Williams, Jason Robinson etc could also start a try from anywhere with their skill to beat players one on one, to confuse a defence but Campese and Davies were the greatest.

It is that ability, not brute force or just pure pace that cornered my vote.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Taylorman, actually Robinson's strike rate in a less attacking era and supposedly (infamously) much less attacking team is not much lower than those 2 at all (140 points in 51 matches at 0.54 tries per match , vs 315 in 101 for Campese at 0.62 and 185 in 63 for Lomu at 0.59) and several of Robinson's caps were for a poor England side post 2003. I know the stats don't show the whole picture and I never got to see Campese or Lomu in their pomp but it seems that saying they were far better attackers than Billy Whizz is a trifle unfair. Also Robinson played FB (for many) and OC (for some) in some games. I grant he was never the weapon that Lomu could be but he also lacked many of Lomu and Campese's weaknesses.

Perhaps, but are you saying that you are standing there, selecting your side and you have one position left to fill, with Lomu and Robinson left standing there, knowing youre going to get the best from either player. And you would pick Robinson over Lomu for your side? Knowing Lomu will be going to the other side. I think you would be more concerned about Robinsons defensive qualities than Lomu's in that scenario. This is the point I;m making. Lomus attack is worth far more than Robinsons and it causes more defensive issues than he will himself ever have.

Taylorman wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:Taylorman, actually Robinson's strike rate in a less attacking era and supposedly (infamously) much less attacking team is not much lower than those 2 at all (140 points in 51 matches at 0.54 tries per match , vs 315 in 101 for Campese at 0.62 and 185 in 63 for Lomu at 0.59) and several of Robinson's caps were for a poor England side post 2003. I know the stats don't show the whole picture and I never got to see Campese or Lomu in their pomp but it seems that saying they were far better attackers than Billy Whizz is a trifle unfair. Also Robinson played FB (for many) and OC (for some) in some games. I grant he was never the weapon that Lomu could be but he also lacked many of Lomu and Campese's weaknesses.

Perhaps, but are you saying that you are standing there, selecting your side and you have one position left to fill, with Lomu and Robinson left standing there, knowing youre going to get the best from either player. And you would pick Robinson over Lomu for your side? Knowing Lomu will be going to the other side. I think you would be more concerned about Robinsons defensive qualities than Lomu's in that scenario. This is the point I;m making. Lomus attack is worth far more than Robinsons and it causes more defensive issues than he will himself ever have.

Robinson's defence was very good, especially for a smaller guy. Lomu's was dodgy, especially for a bigger guy. Both fantastic players (I picked both) but Robinson was a more rounded player.

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:ghostie, at least when you were pretending to be learning English it took a while to suss you out. You're straight into the England bashing now which is a bit transparent mate.

You're also wading in to try and wreck threads that the OP has spent a while setting up.

That's a bit rich Cyril. You're the English version of Grey Ghost, or Ghost is the Kiwi Cyril. Can't remember which came first.

Griff wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:ghostie, at least when you were pretending to be learning English it took a while to suss you out. You're straight into the England bashing now which is a bit transparent mate.

You're also wading in to try and wreck threads that the OP has spent a while setting up.

That's a bit rich Cyril. You're the English version of Grey Ghost, or Ghost is the Kiwi Cyril. Can't remember which came first.

Blimey, somebody sticking up for GG. I never thought I'd see you day. Griff, you disappoint me, old chum

From that list I have gone for Robinson and Lomu.

I went for Lomu and Campese. Lomu was simply unstoppable in his prime and Campese had a better goose step than Adolf.

To eliminate bias you should not be able to vote for your own country.

Sorry, this thred shows the problem with democracy...

True Glas - but the amazing thing about these threads is the number of people who view them but still don't vote. I'm not asking people to put money on the result, or anything so I'm not exactly sure what people are risking by clicking on one of the options.

If we end up with a duff team, we have only ourselves (as a collective) to blame.

The problem with lists like these are the subjective selections we make.

When you look at Campese as an example, he was not an all round good wing, his defence was poor in comparison to other wings.

Lomu the great man himself had weaknesses in that he was poor when turning around.

Doug Howlett has been ingnored in m view the Best all round wing NZ has produced.

Bryan Habana has been ignored, no weaknesses, whether he goes back, forward, under the high ball, chasing kicks, defending. He does risk going up the line now and then to intercept passes and therefor breaks the defensive line, but that is the only risk he takes as a player.

Neither Campo or Lomu would make my team.

I can see Lomu, although he wouldn't be my choice, what gets me is Billy Whizz! Terrorising the useless Celtic nation sides of the 90's is hardly enough to be 'the greatest' is it?

Habana no weaknesses? Even in defence?? Made a mistake in backing himself against Takudzwa Ngwenya in a speed duel.

Having said that, Habana is far more deserved of a place on the shortlist than (the excellent full back) Jason Robinson.

Rating wingers on their defence is like judging props based on their drop goals.

Casartelli wrote:Habana no weaknesses? Even in defence?? Made a mistake in backing himself against Takudzwa Ngwenya in a speed duel.

Having said that, Habana is far more deserved of a place on the shortlist than (the excellent full back) Jason Robinson.

Rating wingers on their defence is like judging props based on their drop goals.

Castarelli, any wing one on one should be able to beat his opponent 2/3 times. Looking at the Ngwenya try as the measure of a man is totally laughable.

Ok, Shane Williams put him on his arse...

Biltong wrote:

Casartelli wrote:Habana no weaknesses? Even in defence?? Made a mistake in backing himself against Takudzwa Ngwenya in a speed duel.

Having said that, Habana is far more deserved of a place on the shortlist than (the excellent full back) Jason Robinson.

Rating wingers on their defence is like judging props based on their drop goals.

Castarelli, any wing one on one should be able to beat his opponent 2/3 times. Looking at the Ngwenya try as the measure of a man is totally laughable.

It was a great try though. Not just the finish - the build up too. I wasn't running down Habana (although that's more than he did to Ngwenya, haha) - as I said I think he should definitely be on the shortlist of all time greats - I just think that the claim that he had no weaknesses in defence was a bit wide of the mark. Shane Williams turned him inside out, and Habana had a big pace advantage over him.

Strange category this 'all time great wings' one. Don't see how you can have Robinson, Davies and Duckham(!) shortlisted without Howlett, Rokocoko, Roff, that Japanese guy etc. European bias methinks.

Campo had more dimensions to his game than Habana - who is pretty one dimensional in my opinion. The ability to put defences in two minds, create space for other runners (and sometimes even pass it to them)... and plenty of speed as well.

Close call between Lomu and Robinson but I'll never forget watching big Jonah at his peak. So Lomu and Campese for me.

Casartelli wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Casartelli wrote:Habana no weaknesses? Even in defence?? Made a mistake in backing himself against Takudzwa Ngwenya in a speed duel.

Having said that, Habana is far more deserved of a place on the shortlist than (the excellent full back) Jason Robinson.

Rating wingers on their defence is like judging props based on their drop goals.

Castarelli, any wing one on one should be able to beat his opponent 2/3 times. Looking at the Ngwenya try as the measure of a man is totally laughable.

It was a great try though. Not just the finish - the build up too. I wasn't running down Habana (although that's more than he did to Ngwenya, haha) - as I said I think he should definitely be on the shortlist of all time greats - I just think that the claim that he had no weaknesses in defence was a bit wide of the mark. Shane Williams turned him inside out, and Habana had a big pace advantage over him.

Strange category this 'all time great wings' one. Don't see how you can have Robinson, Davies and Duckham(!) shortlisted without Howlett, Rokocoko, Roff, that Japanese guy etc. European bias methinks.

Shane Williams too.

Jason Robinson made 18 starts for England on the wing, scoring 9 tries.

http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/player/13578.html?class=1;orderby=position;template=results;type=player;view=match

Joe Rokocoko scored 46 tries from 66 starts.

http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/player/14238.html?class=1;template=results;type=player;view=match

Doug Howlett 49 from 55!

http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/player/13436.html?class=1;template=results;type=player;view=match

Rokocoko is still only 29 years of age. Amazingly.

Campese scored 64 tries from 101 starts.

It would have been more if he hadn't passed it unselfishly to other players.

Like Ieuan Evans

Rory Underwood had 49 in 85 England starts, despite up-the-jumper tactics ahead of him.

Strong candidate for greatest English wing man.

Duckham had 6 from 25 on the wing (he played in the centre early in his career).

Casartelli wrote:Joe Rokocoko scored 46 tries from 66 starts.

http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/player/14238.html?class=1;template=results;type=player;view=match

Doug Howlett 49 from 55!

http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/player/13436.html?class=1;template=results;type=player;view=match

Rokocoko is still only 29 years of age. Amazingly.

Daisuke Ohata 69 Tries in 58 games

Linebreaker wrote:Campese scored 64 tries from 101 starts.

It would have been more if he hadn't passed it unselfishly to other players.

Never thought Campese will be accused of being unselfish.

maestegmafia wrote:

Casartelli wrote:Joe Rokocoko scored 46 tries from 66 starts.

http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/player/14238.html?class=1;template=results;type=player;view=match

Doug Howlett 49 from 55!

http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/player/13436.html?class=1;template=results;type=player;view=match

Rokocoko is still only 29 years of age. Amazingly.

Daisuke Ohata 69 Tries in 58 games

For me it isn't only about scoring rate, I loved rokocoko, but he was one dimensional in many ways.

No Biltong, he was generous to a fault:

http://www.espnscrum.com/timeline/rugby/story/99858.html

Glas a du wrote:No Biltong, he was generous to a fault:

http://www.espnscrum.com/timeline/rugby/story/99858.html

Right you are.

Biltong wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Casartelli wrote:Joe Rokocoko scored 46 tries from 66 starts.

http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/player/14238.html?class=1;template=results;type=player;view=match

Doug Howlett 49 from 55!

http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/player/13436.html?class=1;template=results;type=player;view=match

Rokocoko is still only 29 years of age. Amazingly.

Daisuke Ohata 69 Tries in 58 games

For me it isn't only about scoring rate, I loved rokocoko, but he was one dimensional in many ways.

Now, now.

"One dimensional" can only apply to one player on this thread... and I got there first!

Go find your own unique criticisms please!

Breaker have a look at this. How much has rugby changed!

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=yyhc_nugarE&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dyyhc_nugarE&gl=GB

Linebreaker wrote:

Biltong wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Casartelli wrote:Joe Rokocoko scored 46 tries from 66 starts.

http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/player/14238.html?class=1;template=results;type=player;view=match

Doug Howlett 49 from 55!

http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/player/13436.html?class=1;template=results;type=player;view=match

Rokocoko is still only 29 years of age. Amazingly.

Daisuke Ohata 69 Tries in 58 games

For me it isn't only about scoring rate, I loved rokocoko, but he was one dimensional in many ways.

Now, now.

"One dimensional" can only apply to one player on this thread... and I got there first!

Go find your own unique criticisms please!

Sorry LB, I am lazy today, the dictionary is far away and with my limited command of the english language I thought plagiarism is the easiest way out.

Glas a du wrote:Breaker have a look at this. How much has rugby changed!

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=yyhc_nugarE&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dyyhc_nugarE&gl=GB

Ha ha!







Pass (but not in the in-goal Campo!)

I missed that one. I was in the UK at the time. 2001 was kinda tidy though.
Are you coming over this (in 1hr 40 mins it will be 2013) year, Glas?
You can also pick up some superfine merino wool samples to take back for the mantle piece!

Glas a du wrote:I can see Lomu, although he wouldn't be my choice, what gets me is Billy Whizz! Terrorising the useless Celtic nation sides of the 90's is hardly enough to be 'the greatest' is it?

Yeah I agree Glas. Unforunately for an apparent majority "greatest ever" means pick the player from the appropriate position in your own team when they were at their most recent peak.

I unfortunately cannot be as specific as you in my criticism or ill be accused of "England bashing". Personally I think both of England's current wingers are better picks than Robinson.

I would've thought it was a tough ask to go beyond Jeff Wilson as a greatest winger, he was a fairly complete player who I would hazard wouldn't be out of place in the modern game with his aerial diffusion skills, kicking game, defence and clinical finishing. This perhaps the biggest blemish on his career:


m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=YvA79_K3AcM&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DYvA79_K3AcM&gl=GB

Worth mentioning he popped up again in limited overs cricket to star in a famous victory over the Aussies to get his revenge. A fairly complete sportsman then.

All I can do is try to submit a balanced biography for everyone that posters have condescended to shortlist and hope that some people occasionally read them before asking why [Brendan Laney/Billy Twelvetrees/Gavin Henson/Sam Norton-Knight] isn't on the list, etc....

George Carlin wrote:All I can do is try to submit a balanced biography for everyone that posters have condescended to shortlist and hope that some people occasionally read them before asking why [Brendan Laney/Billy Twelvetrees/Gavin Henson/Dan Norton-Knight] isn't on the list, etc....

No slight on you mate, it is the nature of the beast.

George Carlin wrote:All I can do is try to submit a balanced biography for everyone that posters have condescended to shortlist and hope that some people occasionally read them before asking why [Brendan Laney/Billy Twelvetrees/Gavin Henson/Dan Norton-Knight] isn't on the list, etc....

I'd pay good money to see that backline!