Greatest: Round 2: Choose your 8

Rules and context here:
https://www.606v2.com/t38622-the-greatest-introduction-the-rules

Previous threads here:
https://www.606v2.com/t38819-greatest-round-2-choose-your-15#1753473
https://www.606v2.com/t38887-greatest-round-2-choose-your-11-14
https://www.606v2.com/t38898-greatest-round-2-choose-your-13
https://www.606v2.com/t38921-greatest-round-2-choose-your-12
https://www.606v2.com/t38949-greatest-round-2-choose-your-10
https://www.606v2.com/t38974-greatest-round-2-choose-your-9

Brief:
• Vote for one player only in the no. 8 position.
• Votes are cancellable so in the event that somebody else offers you filthy lucre or alcoholic sustenance for your vote, feel free to be bribed.
• It can be assumed that players in the amateur era would have been just as dominant vis a vis their historical peers if they had followed professional conditioning programmes.

Your shortlist (in no particular order):

1. Wayne Shelford
New Zealand – 22 caps

No.8 Wayne "Buck" Shelford captained the All Blacks in the late 1980s and was an integral part of the squad which took the 1987 World Cup.

After playing for the Bay of Plenty Secondary Schools, Shelford lined up for Auckland and when North Harbour Rugby Union was created in 1985 he moved there. After impressing at provincial level, Shelford made his All Blacks bow against Club Atletico San Isidro in Buenos Aires on October 12 1985. However, he had to wait until 1986 to earn his first Test cap which came against France in a 19-7 victory in Toulouse.

In the second Test - the "Battle of Nantes" - Shelford went down in rugby folklore after ripping his scrotum and losing four teeth before asking the physio to stitch it back up and continuing to play. He was later forced to leave the field after being concussed but it was his uncompromising attitude and lack of self-preservation which made him a fans favourite. The All Blacks - incidentally - lost the Test 16-3.

In 1987 Shelford won a World Cup winners medal having played in five of the six games during the tournament, including the final. Shelford then assumed the World Cup captaincy following the tournament and under his short but extremely productive reign - 1987 to 1990 - the All Blacks did not lose a single game.

Shelford will also be remembered for teaching his team-mates the proper version of the 'Ka Mata' Haka which the All Blacks still perform to this day.

In 1990 the All Blacks selectors deemed Shelford unable to continue for the national side and he was dropped after the Scotland Test series. Despite widespread supporter pressure for Shelford to be reinstated in the side, Shelford never regained his place. However, he did captain the New Zealand XV which played Romania in the then Soviet Union.

Shelford retired from rugby in 1995 after a spell at the Northampton Saints in England and Rugby Roma in Italy. He went onto coach Saracens and Rugby Lions before returning to New Zealand to coach North Harbour.
In June 2007 it was announced that Shelford faced the biggest battle of his life after being diagnosed with a form of cancer labelled lymphoma. He made a full recovery from the disease.

Sample footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6RoaCIzJq4

2. Zinzan Brooke
New Zealand – 58 caps

All Blacks No.8 Zinzan Brooke possessed the unique talent of being a brutual forward with the handling and kicking game of a backline player.

He entered first-class rugby in 1986 as Murray Zinzan Brooke but changed his names by deed poll (to Zinzan Valentine Brooke) to take family history into account. Brooke, who was educated at Mahurangi College, impressed with the national Colts side but it was playing for the New Zealand sevens team in 1987 that established his reputation as a player with the build of a forward but the skills and flair of a back.

Brooke became Auckland captain after Sean Fitzpatrick was made captian of the All Blacks and he also led the Auckland Blues in the first two years of the Super 12, winning the title both years. He was chosen for the 1987 World Cup squad after the unavailability because of injury of Mike Brewer and played in the pool match against Argentina on the openside flank, scoring the first of his tries for New Zealand.

Brooke's barnstorming running set a world record for his specific era - he scored 17 Test rugby tries and 41 in total for New Zealand. The first of these tries came against Argentina in 1987 where the young back-row helped his side to a conclusive 46-15 victory. However, in front of Brooke in the All Blacks pecking order was the legendary Buck Shelford so Zinzan had to wait until after 1990 - when the All Blacks selectors deemed Shelford to be surplus to requirements- to have a regular run in the first-team.

He went onto be a vital member of the New Zealand World Cup squad in 1991 and 1995 and contributed an unforgettable moment which has gone down in rugby folklore against England during the 1995 showpiece. With the posts lying 47 metres away from the rampaging No.8 - Brooke set his sights and nailed an outrageous drop goal (the first of three he would knock over in test rugby) - and in the process propelling him into the rugby spotlight. However, Brooke's joy proved to be short-lived as the All Blacks went down to the Springboks in the historic 1995 World Cup final.

Brooke's final Test came against England at Twickenham in December 1997. He finished his career with 58 caps for the All Blacks and 42 non-international appearances for the national side.

Following an impressive career at club level with Auckland throughout the 1980s and 1990s, Brooke opted to move to the northern hemisphere to Harlequins where he played four seasons for the London side up until his retirement in 2001.

Sample footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0nfYW-wIZ4

3. Lawrence Dallaglio
British & Irish Lions – 3 caps, England – 85 caps

Lorenzo Bruno Nero Dallaglio, OBE, MBE is one of the most decorated and successful English players of all time – with medals signifying victories in the English Premiership Championship, Powergen Cup, Heineken Cup, 6 Nations (3 times), World Cup Sevens, World Cup and three times a Lions tourist (97, 01 and 05). Emerging as a raw talent in the back row during England's victory at the 1993 Sevens World Cup at Murrayfield, Dallaglio went on to secure 85 England caps and cement his place as a hero of English rugby.

He was educated at King's House school in Richmond and Ampleforth College before continuing his studies at Kingston University. Dallaglio was the only member of the squad to play every minute of England's 2003 World Cup-winning campaign, and alongside Richard Hill and Neil Back became part of the affectionately named "holy trinity" of back rows.

With Back and Hill providing the abrasive grind and graft, Dallaglio dealt in aggressive, passionate ball-carrying and defence. His fire was complemented by superb skills from the base of the scrum and an expert eye for a destructive set-piece and during the campaign he came to personify the will to win of the squad alongside captain Martin Johnson. The victory made him one of only two players worldwide, along with Matt Dawson, to have won both the Sevens and 15s World Cups.

Dallaglio was a one-club man, playing every first-class game of his career for Wasps. He took the reins as club captain in 1995 when Rob Andrew departed for Newcastle and made his England Test debut in November that year against South Africa. In 1997 Dallaglio made his first appearance in a Lions shirt during the tour to South Africa, playing in all three Tests of the successful series. He would go on to be selected for two further Lions squads in 2001 and 2005, but on both occasions had his tour ended early by injury, forcing him out of the reckoning for a Test place. Dallaglio was granted the England captaincy by Clive Woodward in the autumn of 1997, but was forced to relinquish the post in 1999 after a scandal involving allegations of drug dealing by the News of the World newspaper. Dallaglio was cleared of the allegation but fined £15,000 by the RFU for bringing the game into disrepute.

He was eventually recalled for the Test against the USA in August 1999 and led Wasps to a second consecutive Tetley's Bitter Cup win in 2000. His second stint in charge of England came in 2004 following the retirement of Martin Johnson, but the team fared poorly in the wake of their glories of the previous year, and he announced his own retirement from international rugby in August 2004.

However, following his Lions call-up in 2005 and recovery from injury, Dallaglio made himself available for England selection again at the end of that year, going on to feature in four matches of England's 2006 Six Nations campaign and scoring a try against Wales at Twickenham.

Dallaglio's resurgence was completed when he led Wasps to a Heineken Cup victory against their old rivals Leicester Tigers at Twickenham. The result was all the more remarkable considering the poor form Wasps had carried throughout the season, failing to make the play-offs in the Guinness Premiership, and the fact that Leicester were going for an unprecedented treble.

Dallaglio returned from the World Cup and immediately announced that he would retire from all rugby at the end of the 2007-08 season. He secured a fairytale send-off when in his final match he led Wasps to a Guinness Premiership final victory over Leicester, and his old sparring partner Martin Corry, at Twickenham in front of an 81,000 crowd.

Dallaglio saw this victory as Wasps' greatest in the Premiership due to the damaging effect the World Cup had on the squad, with them lying near the bottom of the table at the tournament's close due to the heavy number of players that they provided to the World Cup squads of England, France and Ireland.

Many see Dallaglio as the embodiment of the courageous England forward, determined and successful throughout his career at the highest level and at one point the aggressive spark for the best pack ever to wear the red rose

Sample footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CiWQ4-nnkg

This one is a tough choice as they are all absolute top drawer, but it's Buck Salford for me.

Good to see two Aucklanders in there.

Zinnie

Dallaglio and Shelford were hard as nails (although 'Buck' once jumped out of the way of Phil Davies in a BaaBaas game, which spoiled the tough guy image somewhat) - but in rugby terms, Zinzan Brooke is surely in a different league to them as an 8?

Buck for KOing Huw Edwards and not getting sent off for it

Zinzan for me. I'm a huge Dallagio fan and Shelford has one hell of a reputation with any big rugby fans from that era but Zinzan is the best I've had the pleasure of watching.

I've gone with Bias and Dayglo. Got the man's book and everything, the embodiment of not compromising that the current NH teams need so much right now

There's a whole lot of tough guys out there and Dallaglio and Shelford have done it all. But Brooke's skill level was something else. Zinny it is.

Although Dallaglio gains my begrudging respect for that try when he dragged a load of Welshmen over the tryline with him, I vote Zinzan for drop goals and for being awesome on Jonah Lomu

Zinzan, Johnny Bravo coming a respectable 2nd.

Zinny had a passage of games where he invariably came off and got bandaged up like he was dressing up for Halloween as Robocop. He came back on the field and seemed to play like Robocop. Way better than when he was playing with no bandages.

Two greats in the other two as you'd expect in these lists but neither has the skillset of Zinny as has been pointed out. I don't mean drop goals. I mean primarily passing. Not my favourite player in an Auckland shirt but as an AB he was a god.