Greatest: Round 2: Choose your 4 and 5

Rules and context here:
https://www.606v2.com/t38622-the-greatest-introduction-the-rules

Previous threads here:
https://www.606v2.com/t38819-greatest-round-2-choose-your-15#1753473
https://www.606v2.com/t38887-greatest-round-2-choose-your-11-14
https://www.606v2.com/t38898-greatest-round-2-choose-your-13
https://www.606v2.com/t38921-greatest-round-2-choose-your-12
https://www.606v2.com/t38949-greatest-round-2-choose-your-10
https://www.606v2.com/t38974-greatest-round-2-choose-your-9
https://www.606v2.com/t39002-greatest-round-2-choose-your-8
https://www.606v2.com/t39104-greatest-round-2-choose-your-7
https://www.606v2.com/t39143-greatest-round-2-choose-your-6

Brief:

• Vote for TWO PLAYERS in the 4 and 5 positions.

• Votes are cancellable so in the event that the votes are swinging one way, feel free to change your mind if you wish do so.

• It is up to posters to match the respective strengths and weaknesses of their boiler room – have an enforcer and line-out specialist if you wish.

• The lock shortlist was selected without regard to the whether the possible candidates usually played in the 4 or 5 position – traditionally, the player behind the tighthead being the larger of the two. Please PM anyone other than me if this upsets you.

• It can be assumed that players in the amateur era would have been just as dominant vis a vis their historical peers if they had followed professional conditioning programmes.

Your shortlist (in no particular order):

1. John Eales
Australia – 86 caps

A true Australian sporting icon, Eales is one of a handful of the game's elite who has won two World Cups. He played 84 times for his country, 55 times as captain from the second row, with a further two caps earned at No.8, contributing to a total of 86 international appearances.

Famously nicknamed 'Nobody' (because 'nobody's perfect') Eales possessed every skill the modern rugby player requires. Mobility, fantastic hands, mastery of the set piece, advanced reading of the game, strong defence, a huge work rate and he kicked the goals to boot. The sight of the big second row lining up kicks at goal always provided a sense of wonder for those watching, but the statistics speak for themselves with Eales kicking a total of 163 international points, including several match-winning attempts.

Not only that, he was thoroughly accomplished as a captain, tactically astute and a shrewd general of his resources, and it is no coincidence whatsoever that his international career ran in parallel with Australian rugby's most successful era.

Eales earned his first international honours in 1991, in a 63-6 victory over Wales on his home track at Ballymore in Brisbane. From there, it was on to England for the second ever Rugby World Cup and the rest is history. At that tournament, a 21-year old Eales was a key part of Nick Farr-Jones' Wallaby side that defeated England 12-9 in the final at Twickenham. Australia beat Argentina, Western Samoa and Wales in the Pool stages before knocking out Ireland and New Zealand on their way to the final.

In 1999 Eales joined Farr-Jones in that ever-increasing, but highly select group of World Cup winning captains. Eales received the Willliam Webb Ellis Trophy on behalf of the Wallabies from Queen Elizabeth II at the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff, after defeating France 35-12.

Much of Australia's success in the late 1990s and early 2000s hinged on this successful partnership between Eales and Macqueen. The clearest indication of this, outside of the 1999 World Cup win, was Australia's retention of the Bledisloe Cup over arch-rivals New Zealand between 1998 to 2002, and the two Tri-Nations titles of 2000 and 2001. Indeed, those two Tri-Nations tournament wins under Eales remain Australia's only successes in that tournament.
The No.5 ended his international career in 2001 repelling the challenge of Martin Johnson's British and Irish Lions, playing in all three Test matches, before his final game, fittingly a Bledisloe Cup match in Sydney against the All Blacks. In a period of classic tussles between these two giants of world rugby, this match was another dramatic encounter. With Australia leading comfortably, New Zealand stormed back to take the lead in the closing stages, before Aussie No.8 Toutai Kefu scored a last-gasp try to win the game.

Eales retired as the most capped lock in rugby union history, with 84, a record which has since been broken by a number of players, including Fabian Pelous of France and Ireland's Malcolm O'Kelly.
Since 2002, Eales has gave his name to the John Eales Medal, annually awarded to the best Australian rugby union player.

Eales was awarded the Order of Australia in 1999 for services to the community and rugby, and post-rugby he pursues a successful business career and remains involved in Australian rugby on a consultancy basis. In 2010, Eales was appointed to the Australian Rugby Union Board following the retirement from the Board of former Defence Force Chief, General Peter Cosgrove.

Eales is revered in his home country not just for his exploits on the rugby pitch, but for his diplomacy, level-headedness and good nature away from the field of battle. Indeed, he is the embodiment of that admirable Australian specimen - he's a 'bloody good bloke'.

Sample footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E93HbzKwi4I

2. Colin Meads
New Zealand – 55 caps

One of the legends of a golden era of amateur rugby, Colin Meads was the epitome of the All Blacks hard man – opponents intimidated before the whistle had even gone. He came from a traditional farming background the typical profession of All Blacks and he remains working the land to this day on the outskirts of Te Kuiti on North Island.

He was known universally as the Pinetree - a nickname given to him by his New Zealand Under-23 team-mate Ken Briscoe on the 1958 tour of Japan. It was an appropriate moniker because while physically he was no bigger than many of his contemporaries at 1.92m and weighing about 100kg, Meads had a massive presence within teams he represented. A colourful character that encompassed a golden era of rugby in New Zealand, Meads became a folk hero who is still held up as a nostalgic symbol of All Blacks dominance.

In 1955 Meads made his debut for King Country, his provincial team that he played for 139 matches. His first match for side was against Counties and was memorable not only because he scored a try but extraordinarily kicked a dropped goal. The same year Meads toured Sri Lanka with the New Zealand Under-21 side. On tour he demonstrated that he was one of the season's most promising players, featuring in all eight matches and scoring three tries.

Meads was playing in the national trials and for the North Island team during 1956 but did not don the famous black jersey until 1957 when he was selected for the tour of Australia. On that trip he played in 10 of the matches and was capped in both the internationals against the Wallabies, being used a flanker and No.8 and remarkably scored the first of his seven international tries from the wing. In the days of non replacements Meads had been placed there from the flanker for Frank McMullen, who was receiving medical attention.

From 1957 onwards Meads became an almost permanent fixture in the All Blacks squad. He missed the first Test against the British and Irish Lions in 1959 but the following year he had an outstanding tour of South Africa. His try in the second Test clinched victory for the All Blacks and cemented his place for many years to come, although not always at lock. In 1964 he was used at No 8 for a Test against the Wallabies, but a 20-5 defeat convinced the selectors that the experiment should not be repeated.

Meads played a major part in the tour to Britain and France in 1963 and also helped to clock up series victories in 1965 and 1966 over the Springboks and the Lions and again on another successful British tour in 1967. Throughout the decade Meads had formed a formidable forwards pack with Kel Tremain and Ken Gray. He played into the early 1970s when he was in his 30s. In 1971 he led an inexperienced All Blacks team to a series loss to the Lions - which remains New Zealand's only defeat by the British and Irish composite side - it would mark the end of his long and illustrious 18-year career. Meads finished with 361 first-class matches, 133, including 55 Tests, were for the All Blacks.

Meads has been received a number of honours for his contribution to the game. He has been inducted to the International Hall of Fame and the New Zealand Sporting Hall of Fame and in 1999 was voted the Player of the Century at a NZRU awards dinner. He was made a New Zealand Companion of Merit, the equivalent of a knighthood, in the 2001 New Years honours list.

Despite his fame and iconic status in New Zealand, Meads remains a humble sheep farmer who is typified by a bygone era in New Zealand and rugby

Sample footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVfOvF9SyCQ

3. Martin Johnson
British & Irish Lions – 8 caps, England – 84 caps

A giant of the game in every conceivable respect, Johnson is widely regarded as one of the greatest locks to have ever played the game. As a player he famously led England to glory at the 2003 Rugby World Cup and also captained the British & Irish Lions in 1997 and 2001 - the only player to have ever led the elite tourists on two occasions. In a glittering career Johnson was also part of two Grand Slam-winning England sides in 1995 and again, as captain, in 2003.

Johnson began his international career against France in the 1993 Five Nations Championship and called time on his England career shortly after his side's memorable Rugby World Cup triumph in Australia. An inspirational leader for club and country, only Jason Leonard and Rory Underwood have pulled on an England shirt more times while Will Carling is the only captain to have led England on more occasions.

On the domestic stage he played all his club rugby for Leicester Tigers, making his debut in 1989 before going on to make a total of 307 appearances before hanging up his boots in 2005. During his 16-year career at Welford Road he led them to back-to-back Heineken Cup titles in 2001 and 2002 and also five Premiership titles including four in-a-row between 1998-99 and 2001-02.

Johnson's development was handed a timely boost when in 1989 he caught the eye of All Blacks legend Colin Meads who invited the raw but promising teenager to New Zealand to play for the King Country province. Johnson took up the offer and would go on to be capped by New Zealand U21s.

He returned to the UK in 1990 and his international bow followed in 1993 when England coach Geoff Cooke called him up as a late replacement for the injured Wade Dooley. Thrown straight into the starting line-up, the lock held his own as England notched a narrow 16-15 victory.

He was subsequently called up to the 1993 Lions tour to New Zealand as a replacement and featured in two Tests. England secured the Grand Slam and a fourth place finish at the Rugby World Cup in 1995 with Johnson at the heart of both campaigns and another Five Nations title followed in 1996.

His leadership potential was identified by Lions coach Ian McGeechan who handed him the honour of leading the tourists to the home of the then world champions - South Africa. It was here that Johnson's reputation took a big step towards legendary status as he steered the Lions to an historic 2-1 series triumph.

Following Lawrence Dallaglio's brush with the tabloids in 1999, Johnson was given the captaincy of England by coach Clive Woodward and the duo would lead England through their most successful period ever. Six Nations titles followed in 2000 and 2001 and there was little argument as Lions coach Ian McGeechan once again turned to Johnson to lead his squad to Australia. This time the Lions were edged out 2-1 in an entertaining and thrilling Test series.

It was 2003 that proved to be the pivotal year not only in Johnson's career but in the history of English rugby with the inspirational lock leading from the front. First came the elusive Six Nations Grand Slam - sealed with a thumping victory over Ireland at Lansdowne Road. Their Championship success was followed by a morale-boosting trip to the southern hemisphere where they recorded back-to-back wins over New Zealand and Australia. Notably in the hard-fought win over the All Blacks in Wellington, England produced a superb defensive display to deny the hosts despite having two players in the sin-bin.

England entered the Rugby World Cup in Australia later that year as joint favourites with New Zealand and although thanks largely to Johnson's leadership and boot of flyhalf Jonny Wilkinson they notched key victories over South Africa, Wales and France before beating the hosts in a memorable final. As a result Johnson became the first Englishman to lift the Webb Ellis Cup and he led his victorious side back to England where they received a hero's welcome and were honored with a victory parade through the heart of London.

Johnson took charge of the England team on April 16, 2008, having secured a deal until December 31, 2011. And he led the national side into the 2009 Six Nations where they finished second in the tournament but suffered defeats against Wales and Ireland. Their Six Nations fortunes showed little sign of improving the following year as they finished third with losses to Ireland and France.

But in the summer of 2010, England claimed the scalp of Australia in Sydney on June 19 as they overcame the Wallabies 21-20. This performance was backed up with an impressive showing at Twickenham against the Wallabies as England prevailed 35-18 thanks to a wonder try from Chris Ashton. Going into the 2011 Six Nations, Johnson's England looked primed to impress and they seemingly realised their potential with wins over Wales, Italy, France and Scotland. Their Grand Slam dreams were dashed when perennial rivals Ireland overcame England at the Aviva Stadium.

On November 16 2011 - following weeks of speculation after their World Cup exit - Johnson resigned as England team manager with a record of 21 wins, 16 defeats and one draw.

Johnson was awarded an OBE by The Queen in 1997, he was later honoured with a CBE in the aftermath of England's Rugby World Cup triumph in 2003. He will long be remembered.

Sample footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSNuBP5QOYw

4. Victor Matfield
South Africa – 110 caps

Regarded by many to be the best lock in the current game, Matfield has been a key figure for South Africa since making his international debut as a replacement against Italy in 2001 and racked up an iconic century of appearances for the Springboks against Australia in 2010.

Famed for his meticulous pre-match preparation and regarded as a natural leader, his athleticism in the lineout and his speed inspired a new generation of young Springbok players who regarded it as their job to match his threat in the loose. A South Africa U21 international in 1997 and 1998, he was called into the Springboks squad by Harry Viljoen and made his first start against New Zealand in the 2001 Tri-Nations.

He went on to make a total of eight appearances in 2001 and scored his first Test try against Italy on the end of year tour to Europe. Matfield retained his place in the squad with the arrival of Rudolf Straeuli as coach and started alongside long-term partner Bakkies Botha in the second row for the first time against New Zealand in the 2003 Tri-Nations.

Unsurprisingly Matfield was included in the squad for the 2003 Rugby World Cup - featuring in four games including the quarter-final exit at the hands of New Zealand. His strengths were also recognised by Jake White who took charge of the Springboks in 2004. Matfield played a key role in the Springboks' revival under White that saw the Boks capture the 2004 Tri-Nations crown - their first since 1998. His eleven performances for the Springboks that year saw him shortlisted for the IRB Player of the Year award.

Matfield achieved another career milestone in 2007 when he became the 52nd Springbok captain - leading the team against the All Blacks in their Tri-Nations clash Durban. He would go on to be a cornerstone of South Africa's success at the 2007 Rugby World Cup and was many people's player of the tournament. He featured in all seven games and was named Man of the Match following an outstanding performance in the Springboks' 15-6 final victory over England.

With the arrival of new coach Peter De Villiers in 2008, Matfield retained his spot in the Springboks' ranks for that year's incoming tours and Tri-Nations. And following an injury to regular skipper John Smit he was handed the captaincy once again. In his first game after taking over the captaincy he led the side to a memorable 30-28 victory over New Zealand. The historic victory ended New Zealand's five-year unbeaten record on home soil and was South Africa's first-ever win at Carsisbrook, and Matfield watched the last-ten minutes from the sin-bin.
Matfield started all three Tests against the British & Irish Lions in 2009 and his dominance in the lineout was a key factor in the Springboks' 2-1 series victory and he was also at the heart of the Tri-Nations glory - only their third success in the battle for southern hemisphere supremacy.

In 2010, Matfield led his country for the 11th time against Italy in Witbank with Smit once again sidelined through injury and he followed his captain into the records books as the third South African to notch 100 Test appearances against Australia in that year's Tri-Nations. On the Springboks' November tour he was entrusted with the captaincy once again following surgery to Smit and became their most-capped player by winning his 103rd cap - marking the occasion with a try against Wales in Cardiff.

Matfield missed the 2011 Tri-Nations through injury but returned for the Springboks World Cup campaign in New Zealand. South Africa were knocked out at the quarter-finals stage by Australia and Matfield duly retired from all forms of the game having won 110 caps for the Springboks.

He tasted Currie Cup success with the Blue Bulls in 2002 and 2004 but he eclipsed these achievements by leading the Bulls to the Super 14 crown in 2007 - upsetting South African rivals the Sharks in a dramatic finale.
Following the 2007 Rugby World Cup he opted for a lucrative move to French D2 club Toulon but after helping them to promotion to France's top flight he signed a deal to return to South Africa - once again teaming up with the Blue Bulls. His return coincided with the side's second Super 14 crown in 2009 - when they crushed the Chiefs in the season finale - and Matfield got his hands on the silverware again the following year when his side proved too strong for the Stormers.

Hell, he even made facial hair fashionable again.

Sample footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kenwj8KjtWk

5. Frik du Preez
South Africa – 38 caps

When an eminent panel of South African rugby experts had to decide on the Springboks 'Player of the 20th Century' in late 2000, the decision was easy – it could only be the great Northern Transvaal and Springbok lock forward, Frederik Christoffel Hendrik du Preez.

Du Preez is to South African rugby what his great rival Colin Meads is to New Zealand rugby ­ a gallant, legendary and iconic figure. He epitomised, with his commitment to any team for which he played, at club, provincial and international levels, all of rugby's finest values.

Du Preez first came to public attention in 1956 when, as a young air force officer, he out-jumped and out-punched the fearsome Springbok lock Salty Du-Randt in a match between his Defence Force XV and Pretoria. The performance earmarked him as a top prospect, but it was another two years before he was chosen for Northern Transvaal seniors.

In 1960 Du Preez so totally dominated the forward exchanges in the match between the Defence Force XV and the touring All Blacks (which the Forces won 8-6) that he was selected for the Springbok tour of Britain late that year. He fulfilled his lifetime ambition of pulling on the Springbok shirt in the tour match against Southern Counties, a game in which he scored two tries.

Frik broke down and wept with joy when selected to play his first test for the Springboks on 7th January 1961 at the age of 25, against England at Twickenham. The Springboks won 5­0, with Du Preez converting a try to score his first test points. He quickly developed into the dominant forward in world rugby and a truly exceptional player with a breadth of skillset unheard of in his position.

A phenomenal work-rate and uncompromising tackling were features of his play and his technique in both lineout and scrum were faultless. But it was in the loose that he set himself apart, combining lightning pace with the guile and ball-handling skills of a back. He displayed his skill and sheer audacity by winning several games for the Blue Bulls with long-range drop goals. Even place-kicking came naturally to him and he was often entrusted by the Springboks with this duty. He was an athlete ahead of his time, with an ability to raise his game to another level when circumstances demanded it ­ the sign of a truly great player. The bigger the occasion the greater an impact the talismanic lock made.

Always a fearsome competitor, his immense physicality on the field was in stark contrast to his kind and courteous demeanour off it. Mention Frik Du Preez's name to many British rugby fans and it evokes images of the powerful Springbok in the first test against the 1968 Lions at Loftus Versveld, Pretoria, storming around the front of a lineout and thundering 40 metres downfield, outsprinting the Lions backs, to score one of Bok rugby's most celebrated tries.

Other unforgettable images for South African fans are of Du Preez demoralising a star-studded Western Province side at Loftus Versveld in 1969, first kicking a monster penalty from five metres inside his own half, then scoring a try with a scintillating run, and finally landing a drop goal from 40 metres. Unusually for a player of his era, when rugby was dominated by provincial rivalry, Frik was revered all over South Africa.

After he played his last ever match for the Blue Bulls at Newlands in 1971, the Western Province supporters invaded the pitch and carried Du Preez off shoulder-high - something unprecedented for its rareity as much as for its sportsmanship.

When he played his last test against Australia on 7th August 1971 at the age of 35, he held the record for the most test matches played for South Africa, with 38 appearances. In total he wore the Green and Gold in 87 games and scored 87 points. Du Preez represented South Africa for 10 years and had he played in the modern professional era with at least 12 tests a year, would surely have exceeded 100 caps.

When the International Rugby Board's Rugby Hall of Fame came into being in 1997, Frik Du Preez and Danie Craven were the only South Africans to be elected into it alongside international greats like Serge Blanco, Gareth Edwards, Colin Meads, Willie-John McBride, Hugo Porta and JPR Williams. In a 2003 poll by Rugby World Magazine, Frik was voted as one of the 10 greatest players of all time.

Dr Danie Craven once wrote: "Frik is a once-in-a-lifetime phenomenon. I don't know if Frik himself ever realised how much he was capable of. To my mind he could have played any position on a rugby field with equal brilliance."

As a sporting icon Frik Du Preez is South Africa's equivalent of Australia's Don Bradman, the USA's Babe Ruth, or New Zealand's Colin Meads. If younger rugby fans don't know about him, they should.

Sample footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZijzOh2Sl5E

6. Willie-John McBride
British & Irish Lions – 17 caps, Ireland – 63 caps

William James McBride, MBE, better known as Willie John played 63 Tests for Ireland including eleven as captain, and toured with the Lions five times — a record that gave him 17 Lions Test caps. He captained the most successful ever Lions side which toured South Africa in 1974. He was voted Heineken Rugby Personality of the Century by Rugby World magazine.

McBride was born at Toomebridge, County Antrim. Owing to his father's death when he was five years old, he spent most of his spare time helping out on his family farm and did not start playing rugby until he was 17. He was educated at Ballymena Academy, Ballymena and played for the school's First XV. After he left he joined the Ballymena R.F.C., and in 1962 was selected to play for Ireland national rugby union team. His first Test on 10 February 1962 was against England at Twickenham. Later that year he was selected to tour South Africa with the British and Irish Lions.

McBride continued to play for Ireland throughout the 1960s and played for Ireland when they first defeated South Africa in 1965, and when Ireland defeated Australia in Sydney — the first time a Home Nations team had defeated a major southern hemisphere team in their own country. He was again selected for the Lions in 1966, this time touring New Zealand and Australia. He toured South Africa with the Lions again in 1968.

He was selected to play for the Lions in their 1971 tour of New Zealand in a role that would define him as a player. Despite being criticized by some in the Kiwi press as being "over the hill", McBride was made pack leader and helped the Lions to a Test series win over New Zealand; their first and last series win over New Zealand.

McBride's outstanding leadership qualities led to his appointment as captain of the 1974 Lions tour to South Africa and the role for which he would become most famous as the pip smoking, genial holder of press conference. His partner at lock was the late, great Gordon Brown of Scotland and was the most productive and monstrous boiler room in Lions history. The Test series was won 3-0, with one match drawn — the first Lions series ever won in South Africa.

It was one of the most controversial and physical Test match series ever played. The management of the Lions concluded that the Springboks dominated their opponents with physical aggression, and so decided to match fire with fire. Willie John McBride instigated a policy of "one in, all in" - that is, when one Lion retaliated, all other Lions were expected to join in the melee or hit the nearest Springbok.

At that time there were only substitutions if a doctor agreed that a player was physically unable to continue and there were no video cameras and sideline officials to keep the punching, kicking, and head butting to a minimum. If the South Africans resorted to foul play then the Lions decided "to get their retaliation in first." The signal for this was to call "99" (a shortened version of the emergency number in the United Kingdom — 999). This was a signal for the Lions to smack their nearest rival players on the rationale that if the entire team was involved in a brawl, the referee could not take sanction against everyone without the game being forfeit. It worked.

In 1975 as his international career was ending he played his last game for Ireland at Lansdowne Road. The game was against France and near the end of the match, he scored his first ever Test try for Ireland. It was the crowning moment of a great playing career. His last international game was against Wales on Saturday 15 March 1975 and the stadium rose to their feet to roar him from the pitch.

After retiring from playing the game, McBride coached the Irish team and was manager of the 1983 British and Irish Lions tour to New Zealand. Despite the test results being mainly poor, team camaraderie was high and some good wins were recorded in other games. In 1997 he was an inaugural inductee into the International Rugby Hall of Fame.

He lives in Ballyclare, a quiet and convivial legend.

Sample footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pcLeDVBaEs

It's a nice list GC. Frankly you'd be happy to have any of these players in your team. All undisputed legends of their respective countries and eras.

The lineout laws have changed but you still need a genuine jumper in your team. There has been no better lineout exponent in the modern game than Victor Matfield. John Eales is another in that class of jumpers.

Then you need a grunt man who can add some shove to the scrums and make himself a nuisance around the park carrying the ball up and on defence. To top it off you have players like Du Preez and Meads who did things on the rugby field you'd expect more from a back.

I really can't decide between Eales and Meads/Du Preez or Matfield and Johnson. I'd be happy with anyone. Put a gun to my head and I'd say out of respect for NZ's greatest rival Matfield and Du Preez. But secretly my fingers would be crossed and I'd be thinking of Eales and Meads. My favourite lock growing up was the Kamo Kid Ian Jones but those were in the days before lifting in the lineout. In the modern game jumping is still useful to get up higher before your opponent but really you have to have a lot more to offer around the park nowadays.

Nice list GC. Thought you'd put this project on the backburner now that the Christmas lull is behind us. But you injected some much needed life into the holiday period with these threads. Impossible to choose really between greats of the game but that's what makes it fun trying to think you can!

Thanks Kia - very nice to read some feedback whilst I plough the lonely furrow.

These posts are timing consuming to put together but I enjoy the research and self-improvement aspects. Some of the things you find out are great - jaw dropping to think that Martin Johnson was capped by the New Zealand Under 21s, for example.

Isn't it amazing that the man voted the greatest springbok of all time hasn't even got a vote.

I myself am too young to have ever watched him play and therefore couldn't vote for him... in fact I think only Emack and one of the welsh posters (can't remember who) is old enough to have witnessed him in all his glory.

Why I always believed these posts should really be named... greatest in pro era. Has anyone from outside the pro era (i.e. retired from test rugby pre 96) been selected???

fa0019 wrote:Isn't it amazing that the man voted the greatest springbok of all time hasn't even got a vote.

I myself am too young to have ever watched him play and therefore couldn't vote for him... in fact I think only Emack and one of the welsh posters (can't remember who) is old enough to have witnessed him in all his glory.

Why I always believed these posts should really be named... greatest in pro era. Has anyone from outside the pro era (i.e. retired from test rugby pre 96) been selected???

You'd be surprised actually, fa0019 - looking at the votes at present, the team is likely to be composed of quite a few people who retired circa 97 or before - Michael Jones, Zinny, Horan, Campese, Edwards and Sella.

George once again an excellent article.

For me there is no doubt that Matfield is and was the best line out operator in the history.

Surviving 5 coaches is nheard of anywhere.

Gone for Matfield and Mcbride

I just re-read an old copy of JPR's autobiog, he picked Meads and du Preez as his 'best ever XV' lock pairing. In the back row, he had Michael Jones, Richie McCaw and Merve. Props were Ken Gray and Fran Cotton, hooker and captain Sean Fitzpatrick, Gareth and Barry at half-back, centres Mike Gibson and Phillipe Sella, wings Gerald Davies and Campese, F/B Villepreux.

The list is to restrictive and does`nt reflect the realities of the era`s.Martin Johnson is the token Englishman no one doubts his credentials BUT was he better than Beaumont in his era for example.
Meads in his long career Locked with many great Nz Locks,Brother Stan who "Piney" considered his greatest partner.Until "the Night of the Long Knives"[1958] no one was sure of his best position Flanker,Lock or. 8'.
Nev Mckewan,Tiny Hill,Bob Duff and the uncapped Dave Harker were all better
Locks. But not perhaps better allround forwards.Apart from those mentioned above his partners were Ron Horsely,Allan Stewart,Ian Jones,Peter Whiting as regulars.In 1970 his arm was broken in SA by a deliberately aimed kick ,1971he was a shadow of THE Great Meads BUT still THE Best forward in NZ and 1972-3 Should have been his swansong.
John Eales was lucky to be part of an exceptional team,his Line out skills excellent kicked Goals too.
Victor Matfield was at times THE best Lock in the World,BUT outplayed on odd times by Chris Jack.Also prior to TWO Achilles Tendons ruptures Ali Williams in 2008 PRIOR to those injuries THAT Title belonged to Ali Williams.
Willie John McBride just about THE best all round Lock Europe has produced in my Lifetime.
So many greats not even considered Peter Whiting THE best Lock in the World during his era,ditto Andy Haden.
Frik Du Preez a great all rounder again sometimes preferred at 6,Johan Claasens aside THE Best Bok Lock`i`ve seen kicked goals too.[Avril Malan was close]
Meads and McBride tho both were really 4`s.Eales and Dupreez tho both were 5s really.