My best back line

OK, firstly it is very difficult to make any list without being totally objective and unbiased. The other problem we have is fables are told about players of the past that we may never have seen ourselves, or were only fortunate enough to see highlight reels on.

Hence we will never agree on these lists, after looking at our frined George Carlin put together a string of artciles on best per position I thought I needed to get my team in as I have quite different views on what the general consensus are on V2.

15. Chris Latham - 78 tests - 40 tries
14. Doug Howlett - 62 tests - 49 tries
13. Danie Gerber - 24 tests - 19 tries
12. Tim Horan - 80 tests - 30 tries
11. Bryan Habana - 83 tests - 47 tries
10. Dan Carter - 94 tests - 29 tries - 1385 points
9. Joost v d Westhuizen - 89 tests - 38 tries

This backline knows firstly how to score, fro Joost sniping around the fringes of the ruck or scrum, to Carter putting Horan into the gap at pace and bringing Gerber into play with the skip pass and Howlett and Habana finishing off in the corner to Latham running from deep.

This in my view is a backline that will stand back for nobody, they will run the toffee out of any opposition and as a defensive unit as sound as anything.

Between Joost and Dan the inside ball is well covered defensively, midfield with Gerber and horan as safe as any, and with Habana, Howlett on the cover defence and Latham being as solid as a rock in the last post, teams will not have it their way.

Kicking wise between Joost and Dan the territory game is easily handled and Latham from deep can counter or kick.

There you have it, my favourite back line.

Nice idea Biltong - Caucaunibuca, Porto & either Cullen or Blanco for Howlett, Carter & Latham & I'd probably get a semi whenever they got the ball.

Close call between Habanna and Shane Williams (91 Caps 60 Tries).

Latho has always been my favorite fullback, though am a bit biased, but I am thinking this year Israel Dagg is showing promise to be an awesome fullback. And I always had a soft spot for your Monty, always a full hearted player and defender, though sometimes his goal kicking made him as bad as an aussie trying to kick for goal! Plus you never quite sure what his hair is going to be like game to game... LOL!!

OK

My best backline is based on players that have given me masses of enjoyment watching them over the years. The way they played the game was both skilled and thrilling.

JPR Williams
Gerald Davies
Bleddyn Williams
Mark Ring
Shane Williams
Phill Bennett
Gareth Edwards

maestegmafia wrote:OK

My best backline is based on players that have given me masses of enjoyment watching them over the years. The way they played the game was both skilled and thrilling.

JPR Williams
Gerald Davies
Bleddyn Williams
Mark Ring
Shane Williams
Phill Bennett
Gareth Edwards

Let nobody accuse Maes of any 'Welsh bias' nonsense here.

Casartelli wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:OK

My best backline is based on players that have given me masses of enjoyment watching them over the years. The way they played the game was both skilled and thrilling.

JPR Williams
Gerald Davies
Bleddyn Williams
Mark Ring
Shane Williams
Phill Bennett
Gareth Edwards

Let nobody accuse Maes of any 'Welsh bias' nonsense here.

I didn't even notice it until you mentioned it.

Could've fitted in Jones or two there I reckon......

Biltong wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:OK

My best backline is based on players that have given me masses of enjoyment watching them over the years. The way they played the game was both skilled and thrilling.

JPR Williams
Gerald Davies
Bleddyn Williams
Mark Ring
Shane Williams
Phill Bennett
Gareth Edwards

Let nobody accuse Maes of any 'Welsh bias' nonsense here.

I didn't even notice it until you mentioned it.

Casartelli,

How can you have Bias in a team comprised of players you personally enjoyed watching...?

maestegmafia wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:OK

My best backline is based on players that have given me masses of enjoyment watching them over the years. The way they played the game was both skilled and thrilling.

JPR Williams
Gerald Davies
Bleddyn Williams
Mark Ring
Shane Williams
Phill Bennett
Gareth Edwards

Let nobody accuse Maes of any 'Welsh bias' nonsense here.

I didn't even notice it until you mentioned it.

Casartelli,

How can you have Bias in a team comprised of players you personally enjoyed watching...?

He's just pulling your leg Maes. This thread is about bias and personal subjective selections.

Biltong wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:OK

My best backline is based on players that have given me masses of enjoyment watching them over the years. The way they played the game was both skilled and thrilling.

JPR Williams
Gerald Davies
Bleddyn Williams
Mark Ring
Shane Williams
Phill Bennett
Gareth Edwards

Let nobody accuse Maes of any 'Welsh bias' nonsense here.

I didn't even notice it until you mentioned it.

Casartelli,

How can you have Bias in a team comprised of players you personally enjoyed watching...?

He's just pulling your leg Maes. This thread is about bias and personal subjective selections.

It loses its amusement when it is all he does.

maestegmafia wrote:

Biltong wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:OK

My best backline is based on players that have given me masses of enjoyment watching them over the years. The way they played the game was both skilled and thrilling.

JPR Williams
Gerald Davies
Bleddyn Williams
Mark Ring
Shane Williams
Phill Bennett
Gareth Edwards

Let nobody accuse Maes of any 'Welsh bias' nonsense here.

I didn't even notice it until you mentioned it.

Casartelli,

How can you have Bias in a team comprised of players you personally enjoyed watching...?

He's just pulling your leg Maes. This thread is about bias and personal subjective selections.

It loses its amusement when it is all he does.

On second thoughts Biltong your thread wasn't a very good idea.

Casartelli wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Biltong wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:OK

My best backline is based on players that have given me masses of enjoyment watching them over the years. The way they played the game was both skilled and thrilling.

JPR Williams
Gerald Davies
Bleddyn Williams
Mark Ring
Shane Williams
Phill Bennett
Gareth Edwards

Let nobody accuse Maes of any 'Welsh bias' nonsense here.

I didn't even notice it until you mentioned it.

Casartelli,

How can you have Bias in a team comprised of players you personally enjoyed watching...?

He's just pulling your leg Maes. This thread is about bias and personal subjective selections.

It loses its amusement when it is all he does.

Post your own before poking fun at others and you wont get thought of as such an ass.

Biltong wrote:

Your post was a great idea Bill.

For entertainment value;

Castaignede
Bentley
Umaga
Carling
Caucau
Spencer
Kelleher, or one of the French ones.

Might go horribly wrong, but would be fun if it 'clicked'.

Like your halfback pairing there, maverick if there ever was one.

I think Spencer was the most 'gifted' 10 of all time. Kelleher has the added advantage that he could be sensible at times, and would have been the only 9 not terrified by Joost!

9.Edwards
10.Carter
11.Lomu
12.Horan
13.BOD
14.Robinson
15.Cullen

With a bit of room for players who've given me a lot of joy from watching them over the years! Apologies to any greats of the past I may have missed out due to being too young to have seen them play. Gareth Edwards is an exception there as one of my old age group coaches was Welsh and had a seemingly endless supply of footage from that era.

I agree about Spencer: Incredibly talented and damn fun to watch.
Not so sure about Kelleher, but he always had top drawer girlfriends; that means something, eh?????

As an olive branch to one of my favourite posters, MaestegMafia, can I do a Welsh one too?

Kevin Morgan (Mr Offload, back when we played champagne rugby)
Ieuan (hopeless pundit, searingly fast)
Shanklin (forget the Rokocoko chase, remember the times he played BOD)
Jamie 'trainee doctor/Lions man of the series' Roberts
Dafydd 'dropped by Hansen for going home to see his wife' James
Hook, obviously. Most talented Welsh player since the 70s.
Terry Holmes. Dive passing is a lost art. Rupert Moon doesn't count.
Ryan J. Still bizarrely fast in a straight line.
Sinkinson. Brilliant. Slightly dodgy passport notwithstanding.
Dafydd Jones. Only player I've seen headbutt his way over a fullback.
Quinell and Gough. Our scrum will not retreat an inch.
Adam J.
Hibbard.
Darren Morris.

I've also included forwards, for the full effect.

Maes.

No room for captain courageous Mortlock in the centres??

OzT wrote:No room for captain courageous Mortlock in the centres??

Thanks, mate, Mortlock was my missing link. I already had my 9 - 12 and 14,15, but couldn't think of a 13.

So, from the professional era only, my favourite back line, dynamic and attacking:
15 Chris Latham
14 Jason Robinson
13 Sterling Mortlock
12 Will Greenwood
11 Bryan Habana
10 Carlos Spencer
9 Freddie Michalack

Thanks doc. I voted Marmite for you.

(ignore my silly comment in that thread)

No worries.
Me loves the Marmite (It would be the name of one of my favourite props).

Casartelli wrote:For entertainment value;

Castaignede
Bentley
Umaga
Carling
Caucau
Spencer
Kelleher, or one of the French ones.

Might go horribly wrong, but would be fun if it 'clicked'.

Fantastic choices there, all great players that added a mass of fun and excitement into the game. Considering the lack of time in Union Bently will be remembered for his fantastic try scoring in 97...

Casartelli wrote:As an olive branch to one of my favourite posters, MaestegMafia, can I do a Welsh one too?

Kevin Morgan (Mr Offload, back when we played champagne rugby)
Ieuan (hopeless pundit, searingly fast)
Shanklin (forget the Rokocoko chase, remember the times he played BOD)
Jamie 'trainee doctor/Lions man of the series' Roberts
Dafydd 'dropped by Hansen for going home to see his wife' James
Hook, obviously. Most talented Welsh player since the 70s.
Terry Holmes. Dive passing is a lost art. Rupert Moon doesn't count.
Ryan J. Still bizarrely fast in a straight line.
Sinkinson. Brilliant. Slightly dodgy passport notwithstanding.
Dafydd Jones. Only player I've seen headbutt his way over a fullback.
Quinell and Gough. Our scrum will not retreat an inch.
Adam J.
Hibbard.
Darren Morris.

I've also included forwards, for the full effect.

Maes.

Darren "Sidestep and Chip like Baa Baa Flyhalf" Morris

Funny whilst i would probably be close to picking your pack Bilts, id probably be quite different to your backs ...

9 Van Der Westhuizen
10 Carter
11 Lomu / Tuigamala cant decide
12 Horan
13 Sella
14 Robinson
15 Cullen

15. Jason Robinson
14. Va'aiga Tuigamala
13. Brian Lima
12. Scott Gibbs
11. Jonah Lomu
10. Jonny Wilkinson
9. Matt Dawson

My favourite back line would be these lads. Not a pretty bunch but brutal going forward & just as mean in defence.

Gotta say i like that MMMM...theres gonna be some blood and bruises after playing them....

Yes thats the plan. I saw Lima & Tuigamala play for Samoa in the world cup v Japan at Wrexham. They were in the centres together & it was horrendous what they did to the Japanese...

9 Edwards. The best non-AB of all time? Him or Joost for halfback
10 DC. Unrivalled. Still in awe of that game against the Lions
11 Jonah. Devastating on the wing
12 Ma'a. A great runner
13 BOD. So majestic
14 Habana. Enjoyed watching him play for the last decade
15 Montgomery. A childhood hero, even if he represented our arch rivals

Casartelli wrote:For entertainment value;

Castaignede
Bentley
Umaga
Carling
Caucau
Spencer
Kelleher, or one of the French ones.

Might go horribly wrong, but would be fun if it 'clicked'.

If i was going to change any of those it would be Kelleher for Justin Marshall. Although they was both good players and not much to chose between them.

MotelMoneyMurderMadness wrote:Yes thats the plan. I saw Lima & Tuigamala play for Samoa in the world cup v Japan at Wrexham. They were in the centres together & it was horrendous what they did to the Japanese...

I had the pleasure of seeing Inga play for my club team...what a player....

That samoan team must have been one of their best ever though i think Inga had just switched to the AB's...Lima and Timo Tagaloa on the wings...Frank Bunce in the centre before his AB switch...one of the bachops at 10...Fatialofa at prop, and look at THAT back row...ouch...

15 Andrew Aiolupo
14 Brian Lima
13 To'o Vaega
12 Frank Bunce
11 Timo Tagaloa
10 Stephen Bachop
9 Mathew Vaea

1 Peter Fatialofa (c)
2 Stan To'omalatai
3 Vili Alalatoa
4 Mark Birtwistle
5 Mat Keenan
6 Sila Vaifale
7 Apollo Perelini
8 Pat Lam

I think that the Samoans are pound for pound the best players on the planet. I dont know if nature or nurture but they are formidable. Shame they dont have the resources to keep their players.

Maybe in clotheslining or whining about refs.

I dont know why we have to have things like a "best backline"..

If you had Joost at half back and Dan the man at first five, you wouldnt even need a backline...

aucklandlaurie wrote: I dont know why we have to have things like a "best backline"..

If you had Joost at half back and Dan the man at first five, you wouldnt even need a backline...

Well you can't expect Joost and Dan to make ALL the tackles now, can you?

there wouldnt be any tackles, the opposition would only get to see the ball for the kickoff restarts.

Might be an interesting exercise composing a backline that could threaten playing behind the likes of Mike Phillips, Fourie du Preez and Jonny Wilkinson.

One thing I dont like about Habana is hes a loner. He does everything on his own, usually against the run of play. Whether its an intercept, and hes always going for them- some spectacular successes and failures, or a kick and chase like that we saw against NZ in 2012.

Yet when hes involved in any sort of planned move (however rare they are ) he often misses the beat, doesnt blend in with the delicate passing, backup and support play that most players with similar success do.

Whether its out of frustration that play doesnt come his way (so he has to go chasing it himself) or whether he just likes working alone I dont know. He's brilliant at what he does do, just not sure about his general integration within the gameplan. With Habana its usually all or nothing. Hes quiet most of the time then g bang, hes off. I just dont know whether thats an ideal situation as for long periods in the past its meant he doesnt do a lot.

Though brilliant on his day, hes certainly an enigma.

Maesteg this ones for you
TerryDavies ,Shane Williams ,BleddynWilliams,Jack Mathews,Gerald Davies,Cliff Morgan,Rex Willis.
I`ve gone for partnerships over individuals and team work over individuals in that era centres set up wings to score tries.
IF you have Gareth Edwards the n barry John is the logical partner,the centre used to a destroyer[Mathews] a creator [B.Williams]
THE finest Welsh 9 i`ve ever seen was Onywylln Brace a incredibly gifted player but an indvidualist mostly.
You cannot judge a player by the number of tries scored or tests played THE
best 12 or 13 i`ve seen.Admittedly only on cine films and clips J.B.Smith only played 5 tests,but was backbone of the 1945-6 Kiwis midfield.A ferocious tackler and a back of tricks which put Quade Cooper or Carlos Spencer in the shade.Or Ron Jarden who scored 156 tries in 156 first class games in an era when Wings did`nt score tries !!!
You can only use it as a snapshot of the era ,the laws,team etc.

Apart from this being a totally pointless post just a rehash of the greatest player bit.May I ask you some questions,do you judge a player by points/tries scored?
N umberof caps?his overall skill set,whether he played in a successful team etc.For example an OZ fan my go with the EllA Brothers,Campese, Farr Jones,Micheal Lynagh,Joe Roff.Because they were in one of the most successful OZ side in the last 20 odd years.
Does a player have to be great because he shines in a tier 2 side,viz Hugo Porta,or certain Japenese Wingers ?

I guess a bit of everything, certainly caps tells you about his status in his country, depending on position try scoring rates can tell you about finishing ability.

But most of all personal perception, and the player's all round ability.

Some will look at a players attacking skills as his major contributing factor, for me it is about being an allround player with total skills.

Sadly players in "weaker" teams have less opportunity to shine.

Hi,Biltong happy new year to you,the caps thing can be a misnomer Justin Marshall and Jimmy Cowan had 75 and 66 caps each.Neither had the primary skill a good quick pass.But they were more or less fixtures as starters because they fitted with the game plan.
In the year of 1959 Lions,the All Blacks fielded a wing versus them in E.S "Tuppy" Diack his cap was because he was THE best defensive wing in NZ.
Opposing him was Peter "Nikolai" Jackson[17] and Tony"Heinz 57"O `Reilly[19]
they scored 36 tries between them on tour.
The 1959 All Blacks had a Great Pack and Don Clarke,there backs just tackled with "the Boot "it was enough.
Now Jackson and O`Reilly would be high on any list Wings of the era indeed any era.Diack there to do a job which he failed to do.
Headline Don Clarke 18,Lions 17 was THE story of 1959 that team had Mulligan,Bev Risman,Hewitt,Terry Davies,Ken Scotland as well as the promising Horrocks-Taylor,John Youngs,Jeff Butterfield[i think].
Certainly they were the unluckiest for injuries of the Lions sides in NZ and one of THE best back lines.
1956-64 the All Blacks were the "Unsmiling Giants" lost one series narrowly and 3 tests when the Boot was in office.Great sides and great individual backs but as a backline forget it.

For me selection is primarily based on the primary skills of the position. For a winger, the ability to attack and score tries is at least 80% of the role, hence I will always first pick the player with the very best skills in that area, or someone like Lomu, as he will more than make up for defensive woes.

For me if you pick a player with all round skills for the position you lose opportunities, and run the risk of players being jacks of all trades, masters of none.

Expecting an all round player to then excel in the area of attack above all others is therefore illogical- they werent picked for that reason, so why have that expectation?

Mind you, perhaps its being used to seeing the ABs win that allows to focus on all out attack as the defensive deficiencies can usually be covered by other positions.

emack2 wrote:Hi,Biltong happy new year to you,the caps thing can be a misnomer Justin Marshall and Jimmy Cowan had 75 and 66 caps each.Neither had the primary skill a good quick pass.But they were more or less fixtures as starters because they fitted with the game plan.
In the year of 1959 Lions,the All Blacks fielded a wing versus them in E.S "Tuppy" Diack his cap was because he was THE best defensive wing in NZ.
Opposing him was Peter "Nikolai" Jackson[17] and Tony"Heinz 57"O `Reilly[19]
they scored 36 tries between them on tour.
The 1959 All Blacks had a Great Pack and Don Clarke,there backs just tackled with "the Boot "it was enough.
Now Jackson and O`Reilly would be high on any list Wings of the era indeed any era.Diack there to do a job which he failed to do.
Headline Don Clarke 18,Lions 17 was THE story of 1959 that team had Mulligan,Bev Risman,Hewitt,Terry Davies,Ken Scotland as well as the promising Horrocks-Taylor,John Youngs,Jeff Butterfield[i think].
Certainly they were the unluckiest for injuries of the Lions sides in NZ and one of THE best back lines.
1956-64 the All Blacks were the "Unsmiling Giants" lost one series narrowly and 3 tests when the Boot was in office.Great sides and great individual backs but as a backline forget it.

Great tour. Close games brilliantly skilled players.

I remember listening to the tour on radio.

9. Gareth Edwards
10. Dan Carter
11. Christian Cullen
12. Will Greenwood
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Jason Robinson
15. Serge Blanco

9. Will genia
10. Dan carter
11. Jonah lomu
12. Aaron Mauger
13. Conrad Smith
14. Rupeni Caucaunibuca
15. Israel Dagg