My best back line

First topic message reminder :

OK, firstly it is very difficult to make any list without being totally objective and unbiased. The other problem we have is fables are told about players of the past that we may never have seen ourselves, or were only fortunate enough to see highlight reels on.

Hence we will never agree on these lists, after looking at our frined George Carlin put together a string of artciles on best per position I thought I needed to get my team in as I have quite different views on what the general consensus are on V2.

15. Chris Latham - 78 tests - 40 tries
14. Doug Howlett - 62 tests - 49 tries
13. Danie Gerber - 24 tests - 19 tries
12. Tim Horan - 80 tests - 30 tries
11. Bryan Habana - 83 tests - 47 tries
10. Dan Carter - 94 tests - 29 tries - 1385 points
9. Joost v d Westhuizen - 89 tests - 38 tries

This backline knows firstly how to score, fro Joost sniping around the fringes of the ruck or scrum, to Carter putting Horan into the gap at pace and bringing Gerber into play with the skip pass and Howlett and Habana finishing off in the corner to Latham running from deep.

This in my view is a backline that will stand back for nobody, they will run the toffee out of any opposition and as a defensive unit as sound as anything.

Between Joost and Dan the inside ball is well covered defensively, midfield with Gerber and horan as safe as any, and with Habana, Howlett on the cover defence and Latham being as solid as a rock in the last post, teams will not have it their way.

Kicking wise between Joost and Dan the territory game is easily handled and Latham from deep can counter or kick.

There you have it, my favourite back line.

9. Gareth Edwards
10. Mark Ella
11. Jonah Lomu
12. Phillipe Sella
13. Danie Gerber
14. David Campese
15. JPR Williams

9. Joost
10. Ella
11. J.Wilson
12. Horan
13. O'Driscoll
14. Howlett
15. Irvine

Talk about a team that would know how to score a few.

Good to see Wilson and Irvine get a mention

Where would people rate Simon Geohgegan (sorry spelling)

9.Des Connor
10.Dan Carter
11 Jonah Lomu
12.J.B.Smith
13.Conrad Smith
14.Ron Jarden
15 R.W.H.Scott.
Speed ,finishishers,3 goal kickers,outstanding defenders,tacticians at 9 ,10,.12,and 14 would score loads of tries without conceding many
strictly an All Blacks selection.

Who was Ron Jarden, Alan?

George Carlin wrote:Who was Ron Jarden, Alan?

Played for the All Blacks in the early 50s. Winger and a goal kicker i think.

One of the few All Blacks to have lost to Wales...

9. Pichot
10. Carter
11. Robinson
12. Horan
13. O'Driscoll
14. Howlett
15. Cullen

Biltong wrote:OK, firstly it is very difficult to make any list without being totally objective and unbiased. The other problem we have is fables are told about players of the past that we may never have seen ourselves, or were only fortunate enough to see highlight reels on.

Hence we will never agree on these lists, after looking at our frined George Carlin put together a string of artciles on best per position I thought I needed to get my team in as I have quite different views on what the general consensus are on V2.

15. Chris Latham - 78 tests - 40 tries
14. Doug Howlett - 62 tests - 49 tries
13. Danie Gerber - 24 tests - 19 tries
12. Tim Horan - 80 tests - 30 tries
11. Bryan Habana - 83 tests - 47 tries
10. Dan Carter - 94 tests - 29 tries - 1385 points
9. Joost v d Westhuizen - 89 tests - 38 tries

This backline knows firstly how to score, fro Joost sniping around the fringes of the ruck or scrum, to Carter putting Horan into the gap at pace and bringing Gerber into play with the skip pass and Howlett and Habana finishing off in the corner to Latham running from deep.

This in my view is a backline that will stand back for nobody, they will run the toffee out of any opposition and as a defensive unit as sound as anything.

Between Joost and Dan the inside ball is well covered defensively, midfield with Gerber and horan as safe as any, and with Habana, Howlett on the cover defence and Latham being as solid as a rock in the last post, teams will not have it their way.

Kicking wise between Joost and Dan the territory game is easily handled and Latham from deep can counter or kick.

There you have it, my favourite back line.

Every player in your favourite backline was/is a great and I agree with you about their superb attacking and defensive abilities. I also agree that there'll never be unanimity about these kinds of lists. If there was, a lot of fun would be missed.

I don't like the word 'fables', since some fans can be unrealistic- believing and passing on fables - about men who were playing 10/15/20 years ago, well within the tv and video age, as well as those who spin fables about players from 40/50/60 years ago. At the age of 70, I presumably come into the latter category but I think my views are as valid as anyone's because I know what I've seen, I try to be objective, and I'm not yet gaga enough to believe every fable!

Gentlemen,Ron Jarden,200yds Commonwealth games sprinter,International Yachtsman,Rugby Player.New Zealand AllBlacks 16 internationals,21 other games 1951-56 [7tries],Wellington,Victoria University club [AllBlacks o n 1953 tour other than him Fitzgerald,Brian Fitzpatrick*,Bill Clark]*Seans Dad.134 first class games,145 tries 945 points goal kicked.retired age 26 took up yachting to international standard.1955 scored 30 tries a then NZ record,pinpoint accurate Lineout Thrower in.
His most famous tactic centreing kick under the post for supports usually Bill Clark,his most famous dictum.
"Biggest Crime in Rugby for a Winger to die with the Ball"
Wrote one of THE Best Rugby Coaching Manuals EVER "Rugby on the Attack" Whitcombe and Tombs.One of the first players to suggest hookers throw in to lineouts.
Most intelligent Wing i`ve ever seen[ Peter Jackson ran him close]"Whats On " being his dictum for the full 80.
With respect Maesteg there were 15 players who knew what it was like to lose to Wales.Few if any still alive sadly BUT there are lot more Welshmen who know what its like to lose to AB sides.
His strike rate in an era of Forward Domination,kicking halfbacks and goal kicking is phenominal.
Hope that helps you understand about him

Optimist i`m many things but not yet Senile don`t believe in fables unless in black and white or with my own eyes.Apart from Johnny Smith seen all the others in my team with my own eyes.As you correctly say your OPINION as is as valid as mine BUT no more so

maestegmafia wrote:One of the few All Blacks to have lost to Wales...

There must have been 45 All Blacks who knew what it was like to lose to Wales - 1905, 1935, 1953.

But as emack points out, sadly few are now alive - I think none from the first two Wales wins - but there'll be many more than 45 living ex-Welsh players who know what it's like to lose to New Zealand!

I'm a Wales supporter who was at the Arms Park - aged 11 - when Wales last won, and now I'm 70. Still hoping!

optimist wrote:

Biltong wrote:OK, firstly it is very difficult to make any list without being totally objective and unbiased. The other problem we have is fables are told about players of the past that we may never have seen ourselves, or were only fortunate enough to see highlight reels on.

Hence we will never agree on these lists, after looking at our frined George Carlin put together a string of artciles on best per position I thought I needed to get my team in as I have quite different views on what the general consensus are on V2.

15. Chris Latham - 78 tests - 40 tries
14. Doug Howlett - 62 tests - 49 tries
13. Danie Gerber - 24 tests - 19 tries
12. Tim Horan - 80 tests - 30 tries
11. Bryan Habana - 83 tests - 47 tries
10. Dan Carter - 94 tests - 29 tries - 1385 points
9. Joost v d Westhuizen - 89 tests - 38 tries

This backline knows firstly how to score, fro Joost sniping around the fringes of the ruck or scrum, to Carter putting Horan into the gap at pace and bringing Gerber into play with the skip pass and Howlett and Habana finishing off in the corner to Latham running from deep.

This in my view is a backline that will stand back for nobody, they will run the toffee out of any opposition and as a defensive unit as sound as anything.

Between Joost and Dan the inside ball is well covered defensively, midfield with Gerber and horan as safe as any, and with Habana, Howlett on the cover defence and Latham being as solid as a rock in the last post, teams will not have it their way.

Kicking wise between Joost and Dan the territory game is easily handled and Latham from deep can counter or kick.

There you have it, my favourite back line.

Every player in your favourite backline was/is a great and I agree with you about their superb attacking and defensive abilities. I also agree that there'll never be unanimity about these kinds of lists. If there was, a lot of fun would be missed.

I don't like the word 'fables', since some fans can be unrealistic- believing and passing on fables - about men who were playing 10/15/20 years ago, well within the tv and video age, as well as those who spin fables about players from 40/50/60 years ago. At the age of 70, I presumably come into the latter category but I think my views are as valid as anyone's because I know what I've seen, I try to be objective, and I'm not yet gaga enough to believe every fable!

Optimist, doesn't matter what we call them, the problem is tales of players of yore seem to become bigger and better as years go on, whether you aare as objective as you can be, personal subjective opinion will ultimately rule.

If I haven't seen a player, and I listen to Someone such as you or Emack talk about them, it still doesn't mean anything to me. If I haven't seen it, I cannot provide an opinion on it.

We all try to be objective, unfortunately due to our personal experiences and personal bias, it is rather difficult.

optimist wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:One of the few All Blacks to have lost to Wales...

There must have been 45 All Blacks who knew what it was like to lose to Wales - 1905, 1935, 1953.

But as emack points out, sadly few are now alive - I think none from the first two Wales wins - but there'll be many more than 45 living ex-Welsh players who know what it's like to lose to New Zealand!

I'm a Wales supporter who was at the Arms Park - aged 11 - when Wales last won, and now I'm 70. Still hoping!

I hear there were 3.2 million people at the arms park that day.

John Tanner,Keith Davis,William McCaw and legend Kevin Skinner are the only survivors of the team.

optimist wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:One of the few All Blacks to have lost to Wales...

There must have been 45 All Blacks who knew what it was like to lose to Wales - 1905, 1935, 1953.

But as emack points out, sadly few are now alive - I think none from the first two Wales wins - but there'll be many more than 45 living ex-Welsh players who know what it's like to lose to New Zealand!

I'm a Wales supporter who was at the Arms Park - aged 11 - when Wales last won, and now I'm 70. Still hoping!

We always hear about the victory of wales in 1953 over the All Blacks, but credit should also go to the Cardiff team that had beaten the All Blacks about a month earlier, or is that not traught in Welsh rugby schools?....It formed the basis of a discussion between Xavier Rush and Sean Fitzpatrick...

Biltong wrote:

optimist wrote:

Biltong wrote:OK, firstly it is very difficult to make any list without being totally objective and unbiased. The other problem we have is fables are told about players of the past that we may never have seen ourselves, or were only fortunate enough to see highlight reels on.

Hence we will never agree on these lists, after looking at our frined George Carlin put together a string of artciles on best per position I thought I needed to get my team in as I have quite different views on what the general consensus are on V2.

15. Chris Latham - 78 tests - 40 tries
14. Doug Howlett - 62 tests - 49 tries
13. Danie Gerber - 24 tests - 19 tries
12. Tim Horan - 80 tests - 30 tries
11. Bryan Habana - 83 tests - 47 tries
10. Dan Carter - 94 tests - 29 tries - 1385 points
9. Joost v d Westhuizen - 89 tests - 38 tries

This backline knows firstly how to score, fro Joost sniping around the fringes of the ruck or scrum, to Carter putting Horan into the gap at pace and bringing Gerber into play with the skip pass and Howlett and Habana finishing off in the corner to Latham running from deep.

This in my view is a backline that will stand back for nobody, they will run the toffee out of any opposition and as a defensive unit as sound as anything.

Between Joost and Dan the inside ball is well covered defensively, midfield with Gerber and horan as safe as any, and with Habana, Howlett on the cover defence and Latham being as solid as a rock in the last post, teams will not have it their way.

Kicking wise between Joost and Dan the territory game is easily handled and Latham from deep can counter or kick.

There you have it, my favourite back line.

Every player in your favourite backline was/is a great and I agree with you about their superb attacking and defensive abilities. I also agree that there'll never be unanimity about these kinds of lists. If there was, a lot of fun would be missed.

I don't like the word 'fables', since some fans can be unrealistic- believing and passing on fables - about men who were playing 10/15/20 years ago, well within the tv and video age, as well as those who spin fables about players from 40/50/60 years ago. At the age of 70, I presumably come into the latter category but I think my views are as valid as anyone's because I know what I've seen, I try to be objective, and I'm not yet gaga enough to believe every fable!

Optimist, doesn't matter what we call them, the problem is tales of players of yore seem to become bigger and better as years go on, whether you aare as objective as you can be, personal subjective opinion will ultimately rule.

If I haven't seen a player, and I listen to Someone such as you or Emack talk about them, it still doesn't mean anything to me. If I haven't seen it, I cannot provide an opinion on it.

We all try to be objective, unfortunately due to our personal experiences and personal bias, it is rather difficult.

Yes, I know what you mean. My grandfather, as a young policeman, was on Arms Park duty in 1905 when Wales beat the All Blacks. 50 years later his impressions of the players meant nothing to me either, but who can say they were misplaced? After all, he was there and I wasn't. As I said, if we all agreed about past players we'd be missing a lot of fun. Sporting chat has always included old men boring the pants off youngsters!

I'm going purely from what i've seen since I started watching rugby around about 2003/4:

9. Peel
10. Wilkinson
11. Williams
12. Henson
13. BOD
14. Rockoko
15. Robinson

aucklandlaurie wrote:

optimist wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:One of the few All Blacks to have lost to Wales...

There must have been 45 All Blacks who knew what it was like to lose to Wales - 1905, 1935, 1953.

But as emack points out, sadly few are now alive - I think none from the first two Wales wins - but there'll be many more than 45 living ex-Welsh players who know what it's like to lose to New Zealand!

I'm a Wales supporter who was at the Arms Park - aged 11 - when Wales last won, and now I'm 70. Still hoping!

We always hear about the victory of wales in 1953 over the All Blacks, but credit should also go to the Cardiff team that had beaten the All Blacks about a month earlier, or is that not traught in Welsh rugby schools?....It formed the basis of a discussion between Xavier Rush and Sean Fitzpatrick...

Welsh rugby schools? There aren't nearly as many good schools sides as there once were.
But as for Welsh club sides beating the All Blacks on tour - Swansea 1935, Cardiff 1953, Newport 1963 and Llanelli 1972.

Optimist

The point I was trying to (badly) make was that Cardiff were the only other Welsh team to beat the All Blacks in 1953.

Liam wrote:I'm going purely from what i've seen since I started watching rugby around about 2003/4:

9. Peel
10. Wilkinson
11. Williams
12. Henson
13. BOD
14. Rockoko
15. Robinson

Since you posted at 20:12 and started watching rugby only 8 minutes earlier (unless I misread) it shows

ThePantomimeVillain wrote:

Liam wrote:I'm going purely from what i've seen since I started watching rugby around about 2003/4:

9. Peel
10. Wilkinson
11. Williams
12. Henson
13. BOD
14. Rockoko
15. Robinson

Since you posted at 20:12 and started watching rugby only 8 minutes earlier (unless I misread) it shows

haha yeh rugby's been a big part of my life since 12 mins past 8

I'd rather just go for players i've seen rather than just watching youtube videos and reading stats. i think that team is quite decent tbf

Optimist did your Grand Dad tell you DID Deans score that TRY?

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Optimist

The point I was trying to (badly) make was that Cardiff were the only other Welsh team to beat the All Blacks in 1953.

There were a good number of those Cardiff players who beat the All Blacks twice.

In the backs were cliff Morgan, Bleddyn Williams

They form an elite group of the few players anywhere to have ever beaten the all blacks twice in a month.

Several ozzies and boks will have done this as well.the boks side beat NZ 3 times in 7 weeks in 09.dark days indeed.

Very dark indeed Taylorman ,27 defeats out of 89 matches since 1996 [14 Aus,13 SA] humiliating isn`t it?

just terrible...

All respect duly given. Hense the rare enjoyment of winning and the celebrated players who achieved such a feat.

That Wales and Cardiff 53 team was a hell of a team.

The Mighty Magyars of '53 were better though.

Linebreaker wrote:The Mighty Magyars of '53 were better though.

The Golden Hungarians were super human mate... Ranked up there with the The Harlem Globetrotters.

They were ripped off in the final of '54.

I read somewhere last year they were ranked the All Time 2nd Best Team after the Brazilians of '70 and Spain 2010 were 3rd??
The Elo ratings... named after some statistician I think.

Sad thing was... I saw Puskas play here in about 1980? He could barely move he was so out of shape and a tad overweight.

For the record 4 Wales regional sides,Munster,4 England regional sides,7 South African regionalsides,4 France Regional,5 Australian,4 NZ,plus a Rest of the World side.Have all beaten an AllBlacks XV, I use the term advisedly not THE AllBlacks team a very subtle difference.
Orangefree state and NSW have each won on 3 occassions each.
BUT during Tours it may have been a case of players being given game time rather than THE Test side.
THAT would of course effect ALL Nations touring sides

I would rate Johann Cruyff`s Dutch side in the same league though they achieved less.Puskas always was on the Tubby side,wake up time for England first defeat by a continental side at Wembley[rest of world also won that year.
Czibor and Koscis on the wings,Bozkic,and Hidekuti as midfielders,Puskas and Sandor twin strikers.Zoltan Grosics in goal was my personal hero THE Goalkeeper my Soccer position at school.

Linebreaker wrote:They were ripped off in the final of '54.

I read somewhere last year they were ranked the All Time 2nd Best Team after the Brazilians of '70 and Spain 2010 were 3rd??
The Elo ratings... named after some statistician I think.

Sad thing was... I saw Puskas play here in about 1980? He could barely move he was so out of shape and a tad overweight.

I was at the Oxford Union when Deigo Maradona was guest speaker. There was a magical moment when a young gentleman gave him a golf ball and enquired about his abilities to do Keepy-Ups with it. After several minutes of tricks, whilst dressed in suit, tie and leather shoes and still answering questions. The young man asked Maradona how long it was before he dropped the golf ball. Maradona replied "why would i drop it?"

Some amazing skill.

Probably why I'd also discount the earlier comment along the lines of 'haven't seen players from those early days - so can't be sure they were that skilled'.

In fact, given the equipment (rugby balls, boots,etc) and the nature of the pitches before the pro era - that makes the great achievements of Alan's quoted AB players from the 50's, 60s the Welsh of the 70s, etc even more remarkable. The skill sets are so different today.

In many ways it's a lot easier to look good today even though most players are fitter, bulkier and better looked after these days. Great players like Carter will always shine through though.

Linebreaker wrote:Some amazing skill.

Probably why I'd also discount the earlier comment along the lines of 'haven't seen players from those early days - so can't be sure they were that skilled'.

In fact, given the equipment (rugby balls, boots,etc) and the nature of the pitches before the pro era - that makes the great achievements of Alan's quoted AB players from the 50's, 60s the Welsh of the 70s, etc even more remarkable. The skill sets are so different today.

In many ways it's a lot easier to look good today even though most players are fitter, bulkier and better looked after these days. Great players like Carter will always shine through though.

I don't agree that players are fitter now. At the top level anyway. If you watch a replay of a full test match from, say, the seventies, the game is pretty much constant motion. They barely pause for breath. Scrums are set in seconds (rarely collapsing), as are lineouts. Half time is c.5mins, on the pitch and you had to have a severed limb to get substituted.

70s players wouldn't cope with the power of a modern international game, but today's bulked up gym monkey would never cope with 80 mins of continuous aerobic activity like they played 'back in the day'.

Aye there is a couple of ways of looking at it but the basic is natural skill through game reading and nouse... You can get as big strong and hard as you want but how your brain reacts in a situation, how you calculate permutations and make decisions is hard to train. Some people are a cut above...

Those people are timeless.

When I made comments about this thread I made a lot of statements about its validity etc.As an example I consider J.B Smith to be legendary,having all the skills bar one pace.He had tactical kicking skills,great awareness,the abilityto beat any one 1 on 1 by a whole bag of tricks,a great tackler. BUT most important of all his ability to set up his Wings.THE sole surviving KIWI NZRFU player Wally Argus is effusive in his praise "He made it easy for me when he could have scored himself" another comment about him ALL the wings scored loads of tries outside him etc.
Now in the Amateur era,non standard ball s,leather non plastic coated 4 or 8 panels. Standard boots/studs, no special toe caps for kickers or kicking tees.Rough ground uncovered ,afternoon games no lights lights etc all weathers.
Take Cliff Morgan a typical Great Wales fly half,great running skills never tried a drop goal in his career.Jackie Kyle was the ultimate kicking half back etc.it is TOTALLY impossible to pick 7 players from ANY era put them together and say THEY will be great.
WITHOUT taking into account there era, positional thinking,equipment,game plans etc.
For example Goal kickers until the 1970`s used to be the full backs ,forwards also did it and in the 20/30s the 10 more a matter of fashion..
The centre was a specialist role in the NZ setup 10/12 or five eigths were inter changeable.Other teams 12 and 13 were usually a punishing tackler at 12 a creator of tries at 13. The conversion was used with a placer well into the 1960`s.
Nz Packs had no loose forwards as such just 8 forwards the back row being tight loose and often locks converted.To be a" Seagull "in a NZ Pack was a sure was to be dismissed.
The lineout was a matter of accurate throwing to the number called and timing of the jump.
Competing or interference impossible or illegal only possible by jumping across early or closeing the gap and refs were very hot on that.
Is Matfield a great Lineout Jumper or his MACHINE the slickest now lifting is legal,as the All Blacks have demonstrated twice recently.When the lifting pods split the Line is wide open.

I think in the earlier years players played on talent mostly, sure they worked hard on fitness and some strength work.

But compared to these days where talent is only the start of what you need to become a great player. The competition for places as a lot tougher these days.

Hence players of yore cannot be compared to modern day players.

Linebreaker wrote:Some amazing skill.

Probably why I'd also discount the earlier comment along the lines of 'haven't seen players from those early days - so can't be sure they were that skilled'.

In fact, given the equipment (rugby balls, boots,etc) and the nature of the pitches before the pro era - that makes the great achievements of Alan's quoted AB players from the 50's, 60s the Welsh of the 70s, etc even more remarkable. The skill sets are so different today.

In many ways it's a lot easier to look good today even though most players are fitter, bulkier and better looked after these days. Great players like Carter will always shine through though.

Skill sets have changed over the years as rugby and rugby players have changed. It does no-one any credit to doubt or belittle past players' skills on the grounds that 'I never saw them so they probably weren't as skilful as people say in comparison to the players whom I have seen'. Take Barry John, for example. As a defender, he wouldn't get into a present-day Aviva or Rabo side, let alone an international team and the Lions. But as a tactical kicker, probing and flustering the opposition, he was the best I've ever seen, including Dan Carter. He'd make a renowned kicking fly-half like O'Gara look ordinary. He really could land the ball on a sixpence in the heat of a test match - and repeat it.

A month or so back, my account on here of my son's experience of Barry John was greeted by some with mocking incredulity. Briefly, it was that about 10 years after his retirement, John - wearing shirt, sweater and slip-on shoes - gave a kicking master-class to a group of kids in my local park, Llandaff Fields. He punted or drop-kicked the ball to bounce off whatever spot they asked - top of either post, crossbar, a scrap of paper in the distance. He just turned up in the park, 'Uncle Barry' to one of the lads. My son, for one, had no idea who Barry John was until later when I told him, so it wasn't a question of the kids thinking 'here comes a great ex-player, bet he's got amazing skill'.

.

1995 - present, The Modern Game
1980 - 1995, Yesteryear
1970 - 1980, Yore
1960 - 1970, Vintage
1950 - 1960, Monochrome
pre 1950, Jurassic.

In some ways Biltong you are correct SA and NZ teams were often outdoors jobs and physical by nature.NOT spend time bulking up in the gym,fitness,nutrition sports medecine build is now completely different.
Talent has little to do with it a great player is a great player in any era,and most teams.Had a lot of bog standard players with good basic skills around the stars.
The basics SHOULD be in place form at a young age a Super/test Coach shouldn`t need to have to do that.
IF you take THE Most consistent non test side of the Pro Era the Crusaders,7 times champs,3 times beaten finalists.missed Semi stage only once etc.
They had greats like Jack,Williams,Thorn,Somerville,McCaw, Merthens,Reid, Marshall,Carter,Mauger etc. BUT had a very good all round squad of journeymen
supporting them.THE ALL BLACKS core was the Crusaders and still is a TEAM is not just the stars but a good SQUAD.
In 1959 the Lions was full of STARS,the All Blacks a Great TEAM that is the difference and always will be.
Give me a team of very good players,or a team of a few great players plus several average ones and the first side will win most of the time.
For decades Bok and All Blacks played like machines no flair except on the odd game.BUT they lost very few games for the purist fan like myself that is enough
a win NOT how it is done.

Casartelli wrote:1995 - present, The Modern Game
1980 - 1995, Yesteryear
1970 - 1980, Yore
1960 - 1970, Vintage
1950 - 1960, Monochrome
pre 1950, Jurassic.

JPR Williams was born in the Jurassic, introduced to rugby in the Monochrome, was an international fullback during the Vintage, Yore and Yesteryear and finally retired from Tondu Thirds in 2003 - in the Modern. What a player!

optimist wrote:

Casartelli wrote:1995 - present, The Modern Game
1980 - 1995, Yesteryear
1970 - 1980, Yore
1960 - 1970, Vintage
1950 - 1960, Monochrome
pre 1950, Jurassic.

JPR Williams was born in the Jurassic, introduced to rugby in the Monochrome, was an international fullback during the Vintage, Yore and Yesteryear and finally retired from Tondu Thirds in 2003 - in the Modern. What a player!

Although, he also once put a handful of copper coins in his mouth to try and beat a breathalyser test. Qualified medical doctor, ladies & gentleman.

Casartelli wrote:1995 - present, The Modern Game
1980 - 1995, Yesteryear
1970 - 1980, Yore
1960 - 1970, Vintage
1950 - 1960, Monochrome
pre 1950, Jurassic.

pre-1940s, emack still in short trousers

Casartelli wrote:

optimist wrote:

Casartelli wrote:1995 - present, The Modern Game
1980 - 1995, Yesteryear
1970 - 1980, Yore
1960 - 1970, Vintage
1950 - 1960, Monochrome
pre 1950, Jurassic.

JPR Williams was born in the Jurassic, introduced to rugby in the Monochrome, was an international fullback during the Vintage, Yore and Yesteryear and finally retired from Tondu Thirds in 2003 - in the Modern. What a player!

Although, he also once put a handful of copper coins in his mouth to try and beat a breathalyser test. Qualified medical doctor, ladies & gentleman.

Many years ago my father commented about another well-known rugby-playing medical man, to whom he went for treatment - "As a doctor, he's a bloody good rugby player!"

BBC Wales' most high profile pundit and critic of all dog-leg defences, who shall remain nameless, liked to inform people that JPR was "the only surgeon in the NHS without a waiting list".

My dad played, and trained medically, with JPR. Apparently, whilst a phenomenal rugby player, he was a bit of a tool and not a great surgeon. I can't personally verify it though

ChequeredJersey wrote:My dad played, and trained medically, with JPR. Apparently, whilst a phenomenal rugby player, he was a bit of a tool and not a great surgeon. I can't personally verify it though

Pretty handy tennis player, former junior wimbledon player.