Embra v Leinster

First topic message reminder :

The Leinster squad trained in UCD on Monday afternoon ahead of Friday night's trip to face Edinburgh in Murrayfield in the RaboDirect PRO12 (KO: 7.35pm) with a number of internationals expected to return to the fray... Andrew Conway received a dead leg when competing for a ball in the air during Saturday night's victory over Connacht. It is anticipated that he will be fit to train during the week and available for the trip to Edinburgh. Richardt Strauss is expected to return to the fray over the coming weeks and Shane Jennings, who was a late withdrawal from Saturday's line up due to illness, is expected to return. Jennings could be joined by a number of other Ireland internationals - such as Cian Healy, Jamie Heaslip, Sean O'Brien and Jonathan Sexton - who were unavailable last weekend. Kevin McLaughlin, meanwhile, was rested as a precaution after sustaining a shoulder knock against Ulster the previous weekend and is also expected to be in the mix. There are no other fresh injury concerns for the province and the management are hopeful that Ireland trio Luke Fitzgerald, Rob Kearney and Brian O'Driscoll - who continue to make positive strides in their respective rehabilitation programmes - will come into the frame this week ahead of Thursday's lunchtime team announcement. Isa Nacewa is also set to return either this week or next after suffering deep tissue bruising to his arm in the recent Round 4 Heineken Cup clash against ASM Clermont Auvergne. In a further boost, second row Mark Flanagan - who has been unavailable since undergoing a back operation in July - is set to be available for Clontarf in the AIL this weekend away to St. Mary's College.

EDINBURGH:

15: Greig Tonks
14: Dougie Fife
13: Matt Scott
12: Ben Atiga
11: Tim Visser
10: Piers Francis
9: Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN

1: Allan Jacobsen
2: Andy Titterrell
3: Willem Nel
4: Grant Gilchrist
5: Sean Cox
6: Stuart McInally
7: Dimitri Basilaia
8: David Denton

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Steven Lawrie
17: Robin Hislop
18: Geoff Cross
19: Perry Parker
20: Netani Talei
21: Richie Rees
22: James King
23: Sep Visser

LEINSTER:

15: Rob Kearney
14: Fionn Carr
13: Brian O'Driscoll
12: Gordon D'Arcy
11: Luke Fitzgerald
10: Jonathan Sexton
9: Eoin Reddan

1: Cian Healy
2: Sean Cronin
3: Mike Ross
4: Leo Cullen CAPTAIN
5: Devin Toner
6: Kevin McLaughlin
7: Sean O'Brien
8: Jamie Heaslip

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Aaron Dundon
17: Heinke van der Merwe
18: Michael Bent
19: Tom Denton
20: Shane Jennings
21: Isaac Boss
22: Ian Madigan
23: Andrew Conway

I'd say that going for the try as opposed to the taking the points is the opposite of being conservative.
But I'd definitely agree that Laidlaw at 9 is not the answer for the 6 Nations. Pergos to start with Blair providing back up on the bench.

His attempted tackle on Fionn Carr was laughable.

Nice to see Fionn played really well actually. He might have a future at Leinster afterall.

Really impressed from a Leinster perspective, many positives and a few negatives.

POSITIVES:

1) Three returning guys came through ok (Fitz and Kearney had excellent games I thought).
2) We adapted quickly (at the breakdown and at the lineout).
3) Our attack while not accurate was inventive and varied.
4) Cronin, Sexton, Darcy and SOB had unreal games (lineout throwing apart)
5) Excellent mauling

NEGATIVES:

1) BOD's handling was pretty damn bad
2) Reddan looked like he ate ALL the christmas dinners!
3) Cronin's throwing at the start (it did improve)
4) Accuracy


Overall pretty happy, I knew there was going to be rust and there was although Kearney was exceptional and didn't show much signs of rust. Fitz also looked good with a nice break, a few good carries and solid enough defence. Also looks like he learned how to kick.

Ross and Reddan looked knackered albeit Ross carried a lot but still not good enough IMO. Bent did nothing to inspire confidence again.

GLove39 wrote:I'd say that going for the try as opposed to the taking the points is the opposite of being conservative.
But I'd definitely agree that Laidlaw at 9 is not the answer for the 6 Nations. Pergos to start with Blair providing back up on the bench.

Haha yes it definitely is. I meant his decision making as scrum half was conservative, not his decision to go for lineout. Excuse my uselessness at explaining things properly

Vissers defence was once again laughable. Three times Fionn Carr got the ball in the first half an hour, and three times he beat him including literally nutmeging him, and when Visser eventually did make a tackle, he knocks himself out.

Do our wingers not take a look at themselves and think "Every one of us is a shocking defender, whats going on?"?

Its not conservative play to go for a try when a kick at goal is on offer. I thought he was fine at 9 and one of the best players ( of a poor bunch). It does amuse me how so many folk said he was a 9 playing 10 and now he must only play 10

the guy thru the legs should have been a penalty surely - he was held and got up again

Bsando, although I would say that in general it is almost always the case that the replacement scrummie looks like he appears to up the pace of the game, I'm not sure that is always true, particularly when the pack is mostly in retreat. But I think your point about Laidlaw at 9 is well made, he's not filling me with confidence, and I think we can see why he was behind Blair, Cusiter and Lawson well into his mid 20s. I really think we need Cus back, but the 6Ns will come too early. However, maybe we just need to give wee Greig some time back at scrum half and pray a lot! The alternatives, Blair (pass too slow these days), Lawson (never a great passer) and Henry (step ladders required), don't fill me with enthusiasm either. At least in a few years time, young McConnell and Kennedy should've kicked on - both a impressed at age grade and the odd Rabo appearance. I guess the one thing to add woud be that if we play Rhubarb at 10, then hopefully he'll be used to Henry's wilder passes

Coupled with that Visser never really got the ball at all

I think the problem with Laidlaw is that he is still trying to be the main playmaker from 9 due to the lower quality of our 10s. If he had a good 10 outside him to take some of the responsibility away he could just concentrate on being a scrum half! I don't think he's been that bad though - his kicking in particular has been very good.

It is a tough one - people say he shouldn't be a 10 but now he's not set the heather alight at 9 what do you do with him? This is only his 4th game back at 9 remember

During the world cup, Greig got 4 MOM awards out of 5 games playing scrumhalf. The previous season he ousted Blair from the 9 jersey on form, and the season before that he was pushing him all the way for it. Greig has the game, I think he needs to get an opportunity in a team with a bit of confidence, and a bit of time to get back to his little general style from 9.

Chances are that the Scotland pack will be a lot more competitive than Edinburgh so will be easier for any scrumhalf to play behind.

Imperialbigdave wrote:During the world cup, Greig got 4 MOM awards out of 5 games playing scrumhalf. The previous season he ousted Blair from the 9 jersey on form, and the season before that he was pushing him all the way for it. Greig has the game, I think he needs to get an opportunity in a team with a bit of confidence, and a bit of time to get back to his little general style from 9.

Errm - is that right? He played 10 last season for Glasgow mainly did he not? Was he not 10 at the WC as well?

Nah, TJ, wee Greig didn't go to the RWC - his first cap came after the Dan Parks/England in the 6Ns debacle

Ah - misunderstood the post above mine.

What do people think of the three lads who came back (Fitzgerald, Kearney and O'Driscoll)?

BOD looked very light, looks like he has lost loads of weight (unless my stream was telling lies). Didnt think that he played that well either, especially his ball handling.

Fitgerald i thought was ok, nothing really special

Kearney looked very comfortable and had a good game.

BOD does look a bit slimmer alright, his handling wasn't great but that will come with more game time. What I did notice is that he looked to step through the defense when he got the ball, which is something that he hasn't been doing for a while. Kearney looked like he'd never been away, Fitzgerald looked pretty sharp, one really excellent break. Even Carr looked impressive, but he won't keep his spot with McFadden and Nacewa coming back next week.

His handling was appalling I thought, how many did he drop. Rust I am gonna say and hope that he looks at the tape goes mental at himself and vows to score 4 tries himself next week.

Yeah Kearney was mental good I thought!

Fitz looked pretty tidy making yards in contact making all tackles, no dropped balls, no over running and a really tasty linebreak

If I had to choose who would have the worst game, (of Fitz, Kearney and Bod) it would have been Bod.

The other 2 are more confidence players. Bod is the most capable of correcting it in a short time.

Back line next week of

11 Isa (Or Luke if he's not ready)
12 Darce
13 Bod
14 Ferg (Form player in the whole backline)
15 Kearney

22 Madigan
23 Luke (Perhaps Carr if Isa is out)

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:If I had to choose who would have the worst game, (of Fitz, Kearney and Bod) it would have been Bod.

The other 2 are more confidence players. Bod is the most capable of correcting it in a short time.

Back line next week of

11 Isa (Or Luke if he's not ready)
12 Darce
13 Bod
14 Ferg (Form player in the whole backline)
15 Kearney

22 Madigan
23 Luke (Perhaps Carr if Isa is out)

+1 with everything above

Why are we persevering with Francis at 10? Hunter had a stormer against the Ospreys and then find himself benched for 3 games.

Bradley is a clown.

Francis had his best game so far but he still looked dodgy in patches. He is strong defencively and has made a few good breaks but is fairly average elsewhere.

If it wasn't for Leonard and Hunter I'd be happy with him as a bog standard squad player, but agreed that he doesn't offer much more than they do.

He must be doing something right in training if he keeps getting picked!

I agree that he wasn't too bad on Friday, some nice touches, a couple of decent half breaks and his cross field kick was a whisker away from being a try and showed good vision. His overall game management isn't great though, and if he's to play 10, I think 9 and 12 will need to help him out.

I agree with those above who say he's shown nothing so far to suggest he's a better player than Hunter or Leonard.

The two players who also impressed me on Friday were Basilia and Nel. Thought Nel did pretty well against a very useful Leinster front row, and his try was sublime. Basilia was ferocious, and whilst obviously not a 7, he did a pretty decent impersonation of one. Reckon his best position may ultimately be at 6, with Rennie at 7 and Denton at 8 to form our best back row combination. Talei has been too frustrating this season.

Of course Bradley subbed both Nel and Basilia off, so I can only assume he disagrees with my assessment. Either that or we're seeing a re-run of Moffatt's rather curious "play well and I'll drop you" policy.

To be fair Nel was totally puggled after his try! Was very impressive considering he had just put in a huge shift for 70 minutes, especially propping against Healy.

Agreed though that it was strange taking Basalaia off. His tackling was ferocious as you said. I quite liked him at 7 too - not as subtle as Rennie but he did a decent job.

It's Scottish rugby. Pre-determined substitutions are required. Disengage brain.

I just hope that Basilia gets to start the next couple of games. He deserves to. I'd also like Nel to start and Denton to play 8. We need to build on the positive aspects of the game. That means Fife starting as well.

Scott needs to move back to 12 where he can influence the game more. He hasn't convinced me at 13, for a start I don't think he's quick enough.

Agreed on Scott - he's lost a bit of pace now he's a beast and has done much better at 12.

Fife had a good game but still can't forgive him for getting easily fended off by DTH the week before! Silver linings though - he's much better than Lee Jones!!

Grant has been disappointing this season - he tries hard but he's just been so slow and un-dynamic. The number of times he gets the ball standing still then tries to push his way through!

Agreed on Grant, thought Basilia was better, albeit offering something different.

Sep Visser was pretty useful off the bench actually. Doesn't have the pace or power of his brother, but perhaps unsurprisingly his basics and workrate are better. Still think Farndale and/or Fleming should have been blooded this season. I thought Farndale was excellent at the JWC.

Perhaps Ben Cairns can play 13 to Matt Scott's 12? Might be some future in that.

Any ideas on why Atiga had to come off at half time?

Cause he's pish?

Also Farndale has the slight disadvantage in that he broke his leg in August - not sure when he'll be back.

I'd love to see Scott and Cairnsy in the centre, but not sure how bad Cairnsy's hammy injury is. Not surprised he picked something up - often happens after a long time our injured.

Really hoping and praying that Rennie is fit for this weekend - I'd like him to get two games under his belt before the 6N so he can dominate all the other 7s and get picked for the lions!

Guys , Warrior in peace.

Why not get Scott Wight on loan from The Warriors. He is a good rugby player and must be really frustrated at not getting game time. He can kick too. he really needs a break and is way better than that woeful Francis guy.

21st - agreed, and I'd like Nick Campbell over as well. In fact, I'd take Morrison over Atiga!

Stop hoarding all the good players!!

If he (WIGHT) was to get game time he could break into the Int set up - I really rate this guy - St Sean of Lineen did too !

Can't see Wight going to Edinburgh - Glasgow won't want to be left with just two stand offs and now that Edinburgh have signed Francis ( ) there's no point getting another 10 involved.

I'm willing to give Francis up until the 6N before completely judging him. I think he'll turn out to be a perfectly competent 10, which isn't the problem, it's that fact that Leonard and Hunter are also perfectly competent 10s.

Really wish they'd saved the money and waited to the summer instead of giving him a 2 year deal.

Ok then what about taking Wee Kennedy back at SH - this guy looks the real deal and we have Pyrgos, Nutta Nico and Cus (soon hopefully). Just trying to help !

Yeah Kennedy was an EDP poach by Warriors when you ran out of scrummies, would like to see him back at Embra and getting gametime. We'll have him back thanks.

funnyExiledScot wrote: I'd take Morrison over Atiga!

There are some things you just dont joke about.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Agreed though that it was strange taking Basalaia off.

He looked shattered when he was trudging off. He's not really played much and 7 requires you to be super aerobic fit not just physically strong fit .

I realise that, but I personally would have waited for signs that his performance was suffering due to fatigue. In the end, we took of our best performing player, a guy who was putting in a series of crunching (and every now and then off the ball) hits.

It's a particularly common trait in Scottish rugby, as if the substitutions were all pre-determined the week before. I think coaches need to be more flexible. Robinson was particularly bad at using the bench. In fact I'd say it was one of his biggest weaknesses.

I've gotta defend Bradley here (shock horror!) because I don't think he uses pre-determined subs, or at least only subs people if he thinks they are tiring or if the replacement will make a difference. Yes he's got a stupid rotation policy for selection but once they are on the pitch he like to keep them on and doesn't generally do mass changes around the 60 minute mark.

Case in point was the narrow loss to the Scarlets at home where he didn't make any subs whatsoever - that is unheard of these days!

Are you sure RDW? Pretty sure Bradley has replaced his entire front row on the 60 minute mark quite a few times this season.

I'm also not a fan of Sean Cox being moved to 6. Can't see what impact that could ever have on the match, other than decreasing our mobility around the park.

I'm not saying he never does it, but it definitely isn't regular from what I've seen. At least I haven't noticed it enough to be annoyed by it!

Looking at the last 5 games

FULL-TIME: Edinburgh Rugby 16-31 Leinster

Substitutes: 16 Steven Lawrie on for Titterrall (62'), 17 Robin Hislop on for Jacobsen (62'), 18 Geoff Cross on for Nel (77'), 19 Perry Parker on for Basilaia (55'), 20 Roddy Grant on for McInally (47'), 21 Richie Rees on for Laidlaw (74'), 22 James King on for Atiga (41'), 23 Sep Visser on for Tim Visser (48')

FULL-TIME: Edinburgh Rugby 17-21 Glasgow Warriors

Subs: Steve Lawrie for Titterrell (68mins), Robin Hislop for Talei (52-62 mins then for Jacobsen 62 mins), Lewis Niven for Cross (68 mins), Perry Parker for Gilchrist (68 mins), Dimitri Basilaia for Talei (62 mins), Richie Rees for Francis (55 mins), Ben Atiga for King (55 mins), Sep Visser.

Edinburgh V Glasgow

Substitutes: 16 Andy Titterrell (on for Ford), 17 Robin Hislop (on for Yapp), 18 Geoff Cross, 19 Sean Cox (on for Van Der Westhuizen), 20 Netani Talei, 21 Richie Rees, 22 Ben Atiga, 23 Dougie Fife


FULL-TIME: Edinburgh Rugby 3-15 Racing Metro

Replacements: 16 Andy Titterrell, 17 Allan Jacobsen (on for Yapp 49’), 18 Willem Nel (on for Cross 49’), 19 Perry Parker (on for McAlpine 49’), 20 Dimitri Basilaia, 21 Richie Rees (on for Leck 70’), 22 Gregor Hunter (for Atiga 70’), 23 Sep Visser (on for Cairns 76’)

Racing V Edinburgh

Substitutes: 16 Andy Titterrell on for Ford (63’), 17 Allan Jacobsen on for Yapp (63’), 18 Willem Nel on for Cross (42’), 19 Perry Parker on for Cox (63’), 20 Robert McAlpine, 21 Piers Francis on for Rees (54’), 22 Dougie Fife, 23 Lee Jones on for Brown (65’)

Bit of a mixed bag really. Yes the props are replaced around the 60 minute mark but that is fairly standard in most teams, and it can't be argued that any of our props were dominating their opposite men in those games and deserved to stay on!

What's plain to see is that he doesn't throw all his subs on for the sake of it - and that is good to see.

On the last point I guess that's true, although similarly you couldn't argue that the props coming on where going to make any difference!

Yes Robin Hislop, I'm talking about you!

I guess I'm just easily annoyed.....

I’ve actually been pleasantly surprised by Hislop this season – he does OK in the scrums and shows up well in the loose. He’s still a baby in propping terms too! Will benefit from having Chunk and Yapp there and will hopefully get more game time next season. Niven on the other hand…

We seem to be having our own conversation to ourselves here…..!

chunk is an incredibly fat little man. thought your full back looked a decent player. Francis was a real mixed bag at fly half.

visser will end up playing rugby for Go Ahead Eagles if he does not improve his defence

funnyExiledScot wrote:On the last point I guess that's true, although similarly you couldn't argue that the props coming on where going to make any difference!

Yes Robin Hislop, I'm talking about you!

I guess I'm just easily annoyed.....

really?!?! You need toget on board with this whole Messiah malarkey - it'll de-stress you completely

My stress will evaporate when I finally get to see my team win a match at Murrayfield - I haven't seen it happen yet this season.....

I have tickets for Scotland vs Italy - I suspect my only realistic prospect of a win, although no chickens are being counted.