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First topic message reminder :

Breaking News: Pooly quits as Falcons boss after their first home defeat for 2 years, paving the way for a shock return to the Premiership for former Exeter Chiefs, London Welsh and Saracens head coach Driver, who takes charge at Kingston Park.

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Welcome to Season 5 of the Aviva Premiership fantasty rugby game. Below are the rules of the game which must be adhered to. If there are any situations that arise in the course of the game which are not covered by the rules, a final decision will be made by the RFU (Ozzy3213) as to how the situation will be resolved.

Senior Squads wrote:
The maximum squad size is 40 senior players. If a team has more than 40 players in their squad then they will be fined £1 million per player over the permitted amounts per day for the first seven days. If after 7 consecutive days a team still has more than the permitted number of players then the team will be fined £2 million per player per day, and fined 1 league point per player per day for the next seven days. If after this time a team still has more than the permitted number of players in their squad, the RFU (me) will remove players at it’s discretion to bring them back under the permitted numbers. There will be no right of appeal to players being removed.

Be aware that all tier one international matches which are played during the season will count in the game, and players selected in the matchday 22's for those matches will not be eligible to play for their clubs on that weekend, therefore you must give due consideration to the make up of your squad.

Academy Rules wrote:
Each team will be allowed to have a listed senior academy squad of 20 players. Players who are in the senior academy must be under 22 years of age as of 1st September 2012 (therefore must have been born on or after 1st Septmber 1990). Players who are under the age of 20 (so born after 1st September 1992) AND are in the academy of the club that you are managing in real life, DO NOT need to be listed as senior academy players as part of your 20, but are available to you in this game and cannot be poached by other clubs without paying you a fee.

Should a player not listed in your 20 senior academy players, but part of the clubs academy in real life move clubs in real life, then you will have first option of promoting him to your listed senior academy. If you choose not to take this option he will become property of the club that he moves to in real life in this game.

Transfers wrote:

• Domestic (other AP Teams)
  Each team has a budget to use in the purchase of players. Domestic transfers between AP clubs, regardless of nationality of player, should be negotiated between the respective managers, and then confirmed on the Domestic Transfer Confirmation Page.
  
  
• Domestic (Championship and below)
  Each team may during the season purchase no more than 3 players from the Championship or the National Leagues. These players must be bid for on the Championship/National League bidding page, and each bid will be considered by me on it's own merits before being accepted or rejected. No bid will be accepted until a minimum of 24 hours has elapsed from the time the bid was made, in order to afford other managers the opportunity to make a counter bid.
  
  
• Foreign
  To make a foreign transfer (i.e from any club outside of the AP, regardless of whether the player is English) a bid should be made on the Foreign Transfers Page, which will be considered by me against the posted guidelines for purchase prices before being accepted or rejected. No bid will be accepted until a minimum of 24 hours has elapsed from the time the bid was made, in order to afford other managers the opportunity to make a counter bid.
  
  Foreign transfers will unlimited during the off season and 2 during the season. The exact dates of the two transfer windows during the season is to be confirmed.
  

Player Releases wrote:
Managers may choose to release players from their clubs, for which they will be offered compensation

Compensation will be paid as follows

£2 million – current international (must have played international rugby in the previous 12 months)
£1.5 million – former international
£1m – top flight experience
£0.5m – other

If a released player plays in real life for a team outside of this game he will be deemed to have returned to that team. If not then he will be deemed to have signed for a Championship side. If another manager wants to pick a released player up, they will have to bid for him in the same way as for a foreign or Championship/National League player.

Retirements wrote:
There will be no compensation for retiring players. Should a player who retires decide to come out of retirement and play again, then he will automatically go back to the club who he was playing for in the game when he retired.

Fixtures wrote:
There will be 22 Aviva Premiership games per season, plus the play offs. There will also be Heineken Cup, Amlin Challenge Cup and Anglo Welsh Cup matches. These games will take place once a week. A thread will be put up for managers to name their teams on Thursdays, then on Fridays, managers will post the scores that they think will happen from these games (apart from games in which they are involved). An average of all predictions will be taken, and then 0.5 points added to each teams score for each prediction that had them as the winner, and that will then be the final score.

Teams wrote:
When naming your team, not only should you put the starting XV and replacements, but also tactics that your team will employ. Results will be affected by the tactics described.

In addition, each team must have the following:-

At least 10 England qualified players in your matchday 23, and at least 5 of those must be in your starting XV.

At least 2 props and 1 hooker on the bench.

All players must be eligible (not injured or banned).

Failure to comply with these rules will result in forfeiting the match and a 1 league point deduction.

If you fail to submit a team for a match, then the other team will be automatically awarded a 30-0 bonus point win. If both teams fail to submit a team, then it will be scored as a 0-0 draw.

Injuries and Suspensions wrote:
Injuries in this game do NOT reflect real life, they will be generated by me.

Players banned in real life will be ineligible for selection in this game for the duration of the ban.

Inclusion of injured/banned players will result in them being replaced by players on the bench, and the bench not having eight players, which may result in punishment if it concerns the front-row.

Punishment for fielding an ineligible player will be loss of one match point for a first offence, two for a second offence and so on.

Financial Rewards wrote:
There will be no rewards for the result of an individual match, instead the managers will receive cash for predicting.

£1.5m for descriptive predictions
£0.25m for scores on the doors predictions
If you fail to predict without first advising me that you are unable to do so that week, you will be fined £1m for a first offence, £2m for a second offence, £3m for a third offence etc.

AP finishing positions.

Champions: 8m
Runners Up: 6m
Playoff Semi Finalist Losers: 5m
5th: 4m
6th: 3.5m
7th: 3m
8th: 2.5m
9th: 2m
10th: 1.5m
11th: 1m
12th: 0.5m

Heineken Cup

Losing Quarter Finalists - £2 million each
Losing Semi Finalists - £3 million each
Runners Up - £4 million
Champions - £5 million

Amlin Challenge Cup

Losing Quarter Finalists - £1 million each
Losing Semi Finalists - £2 million each
Runners Up - £3 million
Champions - £4 million

Anglo-Welsh Cup

Losing Semi Finalist - £1 million each
Runners Up - £2 million
Champions - £3 million


If your budgets falls below minus £10 million for any reason, the administrators (ozzy3213) will step in and players from within your squad will be released for the relevant financial compensation in order to bring your budget back above minus £10 million.

Croft's ground work is good.

It's all about balance in the end, that's why I'm not sure Wood/Croft would work too well together.

Croft is decent enough on the deck. Leicester like to use him in wide areas in support of their wingers, where he provides a pacy carrying option and is also there to hit the rucks quickly in those areas. That works for them as they generally go with a heavy front 5 and a big number 8, who cover for the fact that he isn't always in the trenches.

I'm not sure that England play the same way, and therefore I unless his game evolves a bit from where it is, we might not see him at his very best for England that often. Good player though.

The Lions used the similar template as you mentioned pete. They had some big guys to allow Croft into wider spaces, and he got into tight situations too.

Anybody smashing any deals?

I agree Nick that Croft might not do enough dog work and has a habit of being found on the wing.

What is in his advantage is that he is effective in the wide channels, something which Graham Kitchener, whom I believe to be the worst culprit of standing out with the backs, doesn't do.

I like croft but to say he has good ground work is strange. He barely has any but that's not his game. No one that tall and gangly is likely to have decent deck work. Physics is against it.
His game is unlike many others but its open field and dynamic. If we play the
Right way he is exceptional and his lineout is better than anyone in England.

Depends how we want to play. Unique talent croft but hard to fit in to a team that does not play the right way.

Yea see what you mean Matt but he's pretty good over the ball weirdly, I think he bagged a fair few turnovers in the 6N. A few spring to mind in our 22.

If we ever went Launchbury and Lawes/lump in the engine room he'd be great as a lineout backrower.

Gaskell excellent on the floor matt. One of the exceptions to the rule.

Croft is 6'5" the same height as Jamie Gibson, who is seen as a 7 and is very good on the deck. Whilst I accept that yes, physics would dictate that a shorter, stockier guy would be better on the floor, there are always eceptions to the rule. In any case I only said he's decent enough on the deck (for a 6). He'snot a world beater there, but he can certainly hold his own and do a job.

You could probably get away with Croft/Wood combo if you had Lawes and Launch as the second rows as they are both very dynamic around the park and can clear out rucks pretty well - trouble is we don't have a genuine no7 anywhere, apart from maybe Kvesvic, but he's only been converted there really this season as has played a lot at no6, espc when Abbott and Best were no7 at Warriors.

Nice win for Bradford there.

Toby Flood free to play. Have to say I think that is a shambolic decision

Not complaining as a England fan , but if i was neutral i'd be in up roar.

I thought there was nothing in it

nothing in it?

are you joking?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI89HHfNncE

Steven_Sharks wrote:Toby Flood free to play.

Told you!!

It looks worse as Hawkins goes to pull Good to the floor as flood is driving him back so flood naturally pushes him into the deck as part of the momentum of the tackle. Hawkins directs Goode to the floor which makes it look 10x worse than it is.

Entirely disagree. Flood lifts his legs and whilst Hawkins (or whoever the player is) does move him to the ground it is Flood who leads to him ending up on his head.

Flood lifts his leg as his trying to drive him back and put Wuss onto the back foot. If Hawkins doesn't get involved flood would just make a normal tackle.

He really got away with it. Wow. That is a joke of a decision to let him off - I could understand if it was just an instant up-down tackle, but he holds him up carries him and then drops him on his head - whilst it is commendable that someone was able to life Andy Goode off his feet, that was a 2 week ban minimum - to think Varndell got a yellow for his offence at the weekend!

Honestly don't see anything in it.

He's driving sideways and Hawkins pulls him down. It's a little clumsy but not really worth a ban. If harsh he could have got a week or so but that would have been harsh.

Funny how people see things differently.

For those that appreciate the bad referring recently and south park!

I love South Park!

"Whilst we found that the elements of a dangerous tackle were made out, after very careful analysis we could not be satisfied, to that standard required, that the dynamics of the incident had not been caused, or contributed to, significantly by the involvement of other players from both teams."

As we said I think, clumsy tackle but Hawkins dragging him down made it worse. I think a Wuss player got under Goode too maybe.

I don't think it was worthy of a ban, however, given that others have been banned for very similar and equally innoucous tackles it is the inconistency of the disciplinary process which gets to me.

i think thats a ban.

to think that hala'ufia originally got a 5 week ban until it got appealed and reversed, and flood got instantly dismissed with the 6N coming up...to me there is something dodgy going on.

Be interesting to see citings from this cup fortnight and see who get's what bans....

Amazing Christian Wade not even in the Saxons - knew he wouldnt make the seniors but to not be in the Saxons ahead of Biggs is a mystery to me.

Wade outshone him completely at the weekend - can't see Lancaster's reasoning here as surely you would want to have a look at him in training?

Ah - Wade is in the squad - just the sloppy BBC website saying he isnt...

According to bbc he's in saxons. I would have thought the eps would have 3 hookersand 2 in saxons?

Good squads in general. No shock omissions.

Joel Tomkins doesn't really deserve to be in the Saxons for me but upsetting him might put his brother off the code switch (or am I just being cynical?)

Wade perhaps unfortunate to miss out on the full squad, especially as David Strettle has done very little to deserve his place. Delighted to see Twelvetrees in the squad. If we aren't going to give 12. Manu 13. JJ a shot then I would like to see Twelvetrees pencilled in for the 12 shirt for the future. Think he is a a very fine 12.

Also find the situation of Karl Dickson very intriguing. He is often called into the full EPS when 9's get injured yet not considered to be ahead of Simpson or Wigglesworth to remain with the Saxons. He could certainly do with a move away from Quins if he has serious international ambitions. If Bath lose Claasens I wouldn't be surprised to see him move there. Very classy player.

"Have to say I'm not sure I'm entirely comfortable with Andy Farrell working with both Saracens and England"

Farrell left Sarries last year didn't he?

Did he? My mistake. I was convinced he was still there.

Yea no major surprises in the main squad, good to see Clark & 36 brought in. The EPS on a whole has a great balance to it and some cracking young talent.

Dickson is a better player than Simpson imo but being 2nd choice at Quins does him no favours.

disagree.
simpson been good recently and provides such a threat round the fringes.
passing has got better too.
his pass v bath for one of the tries was brilliant.

Yea that's why he's in I imagine Nick, I think Dickson is the better player but you can't select somebody who doesn't play regular rugby.

yeh thats fair enough.
dickson is a steady and consistent player but needs 1st team rugby.

36 been in miserable form for glos for last 6-8 weeks Apart from that fair enough

simpson come on a long way this season - will be challenging for senior EPS squad if he keeps on improving. if you had him as an option to come on for final 20minutes against tired legs then would work.

England senior elite player squad:

Forwards: C Clark (Northampton Saints), A Corbisiero (London Irish), D Cole (Leicester Tigers), T Croft (Leicester Tigers), D Hartley (Northampton Saints), J Haskell (London Wasps), T Johnson (Exeter Chiefs), J Launchbury (London Wasps), C Lawes (Northampton Saints), J Marler (Harlequins), B Morgan (Gloucester Rugby), G Parling (Leicester Tigers), C Robshaw (Harlequins), M Vunipola (Saracens), T Waldrom (Leicester Tigers), D Wilson (Bath Rugby), T Wood (Northampton Saints), T Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

Backs: C Ashton (Saracens), B Barritt (Saracens), M Brown (Harlequins), F Burns (Gloucester Rugby), D Care (Harlequins), L Dickson (Northampton Saints), O Farrell (Saracens), T Flood (Leicester Tigers), B Foden (Northampton Saints), A Goode (Saracens), J Joseph (London Irish), D Strettle (Saracens), M Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), B Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby), B Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

England Saxons elite player squad:

Forwards: M Botha (Saracens), N Catt (Bath Rugby), L Deacon (Leicester Tigers), P Doran Jones (Northampton Saints), P Dowson (Northampton Saints), W Fraser (Saracens), J Gray (Harlequins), G Kitchener (Leicester Tigers), S Knight (Gloucester Rugby), M Kvesic (Worcester Warriors), M Mullan (Worcester Warriors), D Paice (London Irish), T Palmer (London Wasps), G Robson (Harlequins), E Slater (Leicester Tigers), H Thomas (Sale Sharks), B Vunipola (London Wasps).

Backs: N Abendanon (Bath Rugby), A Allen (Leicester Tigers), T Biggs (Bath Rugby), E Daly (London Wasps), K Eastmond (Bath Rugby), G Ford (Leicester Tigers), G Lowe (Harlequins), J May (Gloucester Rugby), U Monye (Harlequins), J Simpson (London Wasps), C Sharples (Gloucester Rugby), J Tomkins (Saracens), J Turner-Hall (Harlequins), C Wade (London Wasps), R Wigglesworth (Saracens).

dammit_chris wrote:simpson come on a long way this season - will be challenging for senior EPS squad if he keeps on improving. if you had him as an option to come on for final 20minutes against tired legs then would work.

Can't see him getting near Youngs or Care. Dickson hasn't been great this season but I'd have him well ahead of Simpson.

You need more than just gas at Int level, I think Simpson would be found out big time.

Looks like you were Steve:

http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/sport/unionclubs/londonrfu/10150909._/

Not sure who drops out for Kruis, good set of locks anyway.

Palmer, Robson, Slater, Deacon, Kitchener, Kruis

This Saxons squad is strange they pick far
Too many players. Good that they bring in some young lads to get involved like knight and catt ( don't think either will play for England)

But it is so bloated. Is it a process in that they can only call up players to full squad from Saxons ?

Why are Botha , Palmer and Allen in Saxons? Palmer 35 i think. Would much rather see Tom Casson in there.

I think that might be it Matt. They often promote from Saxons, it must be a deal with the clubs.

Didn't Delon Armitage first get called up from outside of either squad?

Mat, I think Lancaster changed it so that he would be able to pick any players in the Saxons to play for the full England team. Not even sure whether or not there now has to be an injury to them.

Delighted to see Daly get a call up, he's been really good for Wasps this season - one bit of a surprise for me though in the Saxons is why they didnt call up Botica too, get him affiliated with the English set up.

Quite a few league players involved there too - surely must be seeing Eastmond as a winger as he's got to be too small as a 13?

Why would Botica get a call up?

Some very interesting choices for Lancaster an co to make. In my view their are 22 players (listed below) who have the chance of starting the Scotland game.

1. Corbs/Marler/Vunipola
2. Hartley/Youngs
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Parling
6. Wood
7. Robshaw
8. Morgan
9. Care/Youngs
10. Farrell/Flood/Burns
11. Brown
12. Barritt
13. Tuilagi
14. Ashton
15. Goode/Foden

I expect 10 shirts already have names penciled in next to them.

Positions of interest are:

- Loosehead - because of Corbs fitness issues mostly. Marler or Vunipola to take his spot a good battle itself. Marler gets the nod from me. Vunipola fitness not up to it.

- Hooker - Hartley fit again. Walks back into pack in my eyes but not a universal opinion it seems.

- Scrum Half - Care walks it again for me but similar to hooker in terms of its anyone but Lancaster's guess

- Fly half - Farrell did well against AB's. Can you drop an IRB player of the year nominee? Along with loosehead and full back our most competitive position it seems. Can Lancaster ignore Burns form? If he can't then either England's most capped back in the Elite EPS or a player who guided England to victory against the All Blacks will drop out. Can't see them shifting Farrell to 12 (nor should they).

- Full Back - Goode had the shirt for the AI's but will have a job keeping it with injury issues. Foden will only need one chance to get the shirt back I suspect. Very bad timing for Goode if it does rule him out.

My guesses on who will start come 2 February:

1. Marler
2. Hartley
9. Youngs
10. Farrell
15. Foden

with a bench of

16. Youngs
17. Vunipola
18. Wilson
19. Lawes
20. Haskell
21. Care
22. Flood
23. Joseph

with Burns very very unlucky.

I suspect it'll be that team will start if fit.

Only possible twist (with Goode probably out)

11. Foden
14. Ashton
15. Brown

Corbs not likely to make it either.

I have a feeling Clark may get a bench spot too.

Good calls Steve, agree with what you say there - reckon you have got the team spot on. Certainly be interesting to see who plays at loosehead.

Lancaster does seem to prefer Youngs to Care, even when Youngs has been poor he's selected him.

Goode sounds like he will miss out and if Foden gets the chance he wont lose the shirt again.