Ryder Cup Captain 2014 - Congratulations Paul McGinley

DC's come out and said he doesn't think he should be Ryder Cup captain in 2014. Olly has said he'll never do it again. How many more people need to make some sort of gesture before Monty rules himself out and leaves the way clear for McGinley?

Rory came out for McGinley also.

Let's hope he takes the hint.

Of course, thanks Kwini. Surely he's got the hint by now?

He'll be enjoying getting his ego fed right now... although now would be perfect timing for him to sit in front of the cameras to tell us how brilliant he was a RC singles and as a captain but - due to him being also utterly brilliantly modest - rule himself out.

I can understand him wanting to do it in his home country and thus his apparent reluctance to step away. If the criteria allow him to take a second stint and he does want it, let him keep his hat in the ring.

Hopefully, the committee (or whoever decides it) will decide he's had his shot and choose someone else anyway. At that point as long as he is graceful and unequivocally supportive of whoever does get it fair play to him. Whether he would do this or not is my concern.

I do think captaincy should only be a one time privilege and believe that the opportune moment to formally change the eligibility criteria would be following selection of the 2014 captain.

As an aside, do people have to formally "apply" for the post or is it simply awarded? I think the introduction of an application process would cut out some of the posturing as would defined criteria.

Sky Sports now reporting he's favourite. http://www1.skysports.com/golf/news/12230/8396401/Colin-Montgomerie-heavily-tipped-to-get-Ryder-Cup-captain-s-job-for-Gleneagles

Montgomerie would be a catastrophic choice.

And to offer him two home gigs would just underscore the fact that he would be persona non Ryder Cup grata in the U.S.

Egocentric, sycophantic blowhard, certainly nothing to suggest his Celtic Manor Captaincy was out of the ordinary, certainly not in Jacklin, Langer class.

Montgomerie is lobbying for it merely by not taking his fat arse out of consideration.

Clarke has made himself look like a complete prat in this whole process. I want it, I dont want it, I do want it but Im playing well now so I dont want it right now. He should be off the list of future candidates just for being so indecisive.

"a source very close to the Montgomerie camp"

The man himself bigging up his own chances by using his contacts at sky to keep his name in everyone's mind?

Didn't realise that he was on the committee responsible for choosing the captain until I read that though.

Its interesting though that Coco thinks it should be a one off, after all the first 9 RC's which featured a Europe team only had 3 skippers.
If they were going down the past captains route this time though you'd have to say Langer should be first choice really.

Well, if Europe need a big name multiple major winner just because the US have pulled Watson out of the bag then we might end up with Faldo again!!!

Dig - I think Langer was a good captain but why would he have to be first choice of past captains? (NB - it's a genuine question about the rationale as I'm not hugely up on RC history in detail)

Monty has a great track record as a captain, and all the evidence and statistics back this up. His methods are far superior to that of McGinley's.

I am of course being sarcastic.

Richard Dawkins provided us with "the god delusion", is it high time someone wrote "the ryder captaincy delusion"?

Roller_Coaster wrote:

Dig - I think Langer was a good captain but why would he have to be first choice of past captains? (NB - it's a genuine question about the rationale as I'm not hugely up on RC history in detail)

He just seemed very good and organised to me and of course his win came away from home, so awarding him a home captaincy gives a balance. Also he is still a very good player even competing in tour events till recently (maybe even will play some this year ?)

Success away is a big factor, and must have used the stereotypical organisational skills Germans do seem to have.

I still think it should be a one shot deal and so I'd have to exclude Langer if it were me, but if a second captaincy were chosen I would rather have Langer than Monty, by some margin.

Rumours are rife Monty will be announced as Captain tomorrow.

Iain Carter blog says it was Clarke's idea to put up a high profile ex-captain against Watson, which would rather suggest he's pro-Monty. I didn't realise that, as my initial post would suggest I thought he was getting out of McGinley's way.

super_realist wrote:Rumours are rife Monty will be announced as Captain tomorrow.

It would be hilarious and completely blow out of the water your argument about the captaincy being a meritocracy Super with things changing so that it wasn't all about a candidates playing career.
That said I hope McGinley gets it over Monty even though I dont think McGinley actually deserves it either to be honest.

I don't necessarily agree that the captaincy should just be a one shot deal. Quite apart from anything else and, notwithstanding Sandy Lyle, there might not be as many candidates for the job at any one time as some might believe.

Taking into consideration the Jakartagate incident, Monty was lucky to get the opportunity to do it once. I don't care how good his record is; integrity is more important in this game than records.

Diggers, why don't you think McGinley deserves the captaincy?

Gael I still believe that the captaincy should be given as a reward for a stellar playing career, so Id give it to Lyle who I think was utterly deserving of his shot and its a travesty that he was overlooked. I dont really buy into the belief that he is too out of touch now, he still plays a mean game once in a while and he can always appoint a more in touch vice captain....like McGinley maybe !

I don't think Lyle would be a particularly good captain (but have no evidence to back this up!) but if captaincy is (even in part) a reward for a good playing career then there are few (none IMO) that haven't done it that deserve it more so he'd still get a shot in my book.

I think he may well be out of touch with the players socially, but that shouldn't matter. The team around him can make up for that aspect. Isn't the bigger problem that he and the powers that be don't get on with each other?

Is Watson in touch with the likely US team members? They will be hugely respectful of him but I can't see that he would be in touch with many of them.

I do feel a bit sorry for Lyle and I don't buy into the perception that he's a miserable sulk or indeed even that he's out of touch (personally I see the "out of touch" tag as spin by the "in" clique.

That being said I do think his time has now passed and all those tasked in the selection process over the past 10-12 years should hang their heads in shame for not honouring a playing career whose achievements built on Seve's and opened the door of belief for a LOT of Europeans who came after...even Faldo (who I'm sure would be loathe to admit it).

All I would say is that if Lyle ain't worth one then Monty DEFINITELY shouldn't get the gig twice. I still think Clarke and McGinley should be announced as 2014 & 2016 and take your pick which way round you'd have them.

gaelgowfer wrote:I don't necessarily agree that the captaincy should just be a one shot deal. Quite apart from anything else and, notwithstanding Sandy Lyle, there might not be as many candidates for the job at any one time as some might believe.

Taking into consideration the Jakartagate incident, Monty was lucky to get the opportunity to do it once. I don't care how good his record is; integrity is more important in this game than records.

Lyle doesn't deserve it any more than anyone with no major wins.

At least Monty has previous of getting the job done. I wish people would stop this Indonesian nonsense too.

Diggers, didn't Lyle once turn down an opportunity to be captain?

Define "stellar career". McGinley's been around the european tour for what seems to me to be a veritable age. He was also a very popular (and successful) Seve Trophy captain.

Not everyone who plays 'a good game' will make a good captain. Using your criteria of selection being based on a "stellar careeer" is deeply flawed not least because this is team match play and not individual stroke play.

Of course, I have never met McGinley but he comes across to me as having all the qualities needed to get the best out of any team handed to him.

Stellar career equals majors, WGC's OOM's, top 10 OWGR rankings Gael, for me anyway.
Im sure McGinley has great qualities but Im not trying to hide the fact that I think thats largely irrelevant in regards to who gets the captaincy, they should be a high profile achiever IMO.
Lets face it you would have said on face value Woosie was about the worst candidate for the job in history and yet he somehow pulled it off, I dont think its that big a deal the kind of person yo uare, you just need the players to perform and the off bit of luck helps.

Sam Torrance wasn't a great.

He was a European Tour great of his time SR. 21 wins, 10th most of anyone who's played the tour. The fact that the standard was about a tenth of that played on the PGA helped him mind you.

super_realist wrote:

gaelgowfer wrote:I don't necessarily agree that the captaincy should just be a one shot deal. Quite apart from anything else and, notwithstanding Sandy Lyle, there might not be as many candidates for the job at any one time as some might believe.

Taking into consideration the Jakartagate incident, Monty was lucky to get the opportunity to do it once. I don't care how good his record is; integrity is more important in this game than records.

Lyle doesn't deserve it any more than anyone with no major wins.

At least Monty has previous of getting the job done. I wish people would stop this Indonesian nonsense too.

Of course he deserved it at some point Super at not just because he won 2 Majors. I actually worked beside his nephew for a while (which is where the "he's nothing like what he's portrayed like in the media" line of thinking comes from). Having said that, like I've already said I think his time has passed now. Seems strange in the same breath to say Watson is a good choice for the U.S. but that's totally different, they've had to think outside the box and take a gamble. Some might say they're desperate whereas we're not. I think however that reverting to Monty would be dancing to the American's tune, we don't need to do it. To select Monty again would be as bad as not selecting Lyle at some point over the past 12 years.

I do understand though the "majors are no great indicator of an RC captains potential"
Monty = 0 majors - RC winning captain
Faldo = 6 majors - RC losing captain and cringeworthy with it

Diggers wrote:He was a European Tour great of his time SR. 21 wins, 10th most of anyone who's played the tour. The fact that the standard was about a tenth of that played on the PGA helped him mind you.

Yeah, but he wasn't a Lyle, Olazabal, Faldo. So why didn't they pick Lyle instead of Torrance? Simple, he was the best man for the job.

Jas, Im not sure that the European Tour isn't a tad desperate in terms of candidates.
I really dont think McGinley will be a popular choice with the broadcasters and sponsors as he is a no name in the grand scheme of things and that will not be good for the build up to the event. It would appear that plenty of people cant really buy into him whatever his qualities in team leadership.
And to be honest Clarke has always struck me as not the sharpest tool in the shed and has a history of being tricky to deal with if he's not in the mood.
If the powers that be felt they had two really good candidates Monty woulnt even be in the frame...and yet he seems to be!

Is it a bit strong to say if McGinely is not picked then they might as well chuck the Seve Trophy in the bin?

super_realist wrote:

Diggers wrote:He was a European Tour great of his time SR. 21 wins, 10th most of anyone who's played the tour. The fact that the standard was about a tenth of that played on the PGA helped him mind you.

Yeah, but he wasn't a Lyle, Olazabal, Faldo. So why didn't they pick Lyle instead of Torrance? Simple, he was the best man for the job.

Or whatever his success Lyle has just managed to upset a few people along the way and has been sent to Coventry to all intents and purposes. And Torrance is a much bigger name than McGinley.

Can't see any reason not to give MGinley the job

Lairdy wrote:Is it a bit strong to say if McGinely is not picked then they might as well chuck the Seve Trophy in the bin?

No disrespect to Seve, but the bin is the only place for the Seve trophy...................

Lets see if the committee agrees with you Super.

Saying that, I don't think Monty would be bad either.

gaelgowfer wrote:Of course, I have never met McGinley but he comes across to me as having all the qualities needed to get the best out of any team handed to him.

Not wanting or meaning to re-open old wounds, but didn't you have a dispute (presumably with his company rather than the man personally though)... over club hire or something like that?

[Sorry, a bit OT]

So does this debate boil down to the purpose and criteria for choosing RC captain?

Reward for past achievement v who is considered most likely to oversee victory (and perhaps taking into account commercial appeal) etc.

If you believe the main purpose is to maximise chance of winning, then presumably the next level of questions are along the lines of organisational and leadership skills (inc respect from players - which might tie in to past achievements as well as proximity on tour and so on)... and then for this time in particular, whether home advantage matters.

It must be very tempting for Colin to want to win a 2nd RC as captain, especially in his own backyard - but also quite a serious risk of damaging his legacy. Can't be sure what I'd do if I was in his position, but I think I'd lean towards letting someone else have a go (and avoiding all the aggravation).

Wonder if people close to the debates are indirectly sneaking bets on the outcome!!!

PaddyPower have McGinley and Monty both at 5/6 to get the nod, month slight favourite with Skybet.

Luke has just tweeted in favour of McGinley too.

Given it's independance year id be hugely surprised if there isn't a 'strong' Scottish representative within the team.not that im suspicious of any foul play...

Clarke really has not behaved honourably here..........he has flip flopped on this, first ruling himself out and backing McGinley, then looking for it himself, then wondering aloud if we need a "presence" opposite Tom Watson and maybe we should ask someone to do it again (as in Monty)...................

And now Poulter. So pretty much the entire backbone of the likely 2014 team (I can see LW missing out) has come out in support of McGinley. Why would Monty ignore that and still stand?

The only person to apparently have behaved honourably is McGinley . . . . .

Montgomerie could easily have taken himself out of the running, but his incontinent infatuation with himself and his place in the public eye won't allow him to do that.

We were pretty bloody fortunate to win at Celtic Manor (as well as Medinah of course) and no-one's ever come out and praised Montgomerie's inspirational leadership. Have they?

Monty?

Of course, Sky. Forgot.

Lyle and Clarke are too dim to be decent captains.

Paul McGinley is different kettle of fish and is well respected by his fellow pros.

Looks like the players are lining up with Paul and Monty should do the decent thing.

kwinigolfer wrote:The only person to apparently have behaved honourably is McGinley . . . . .

Montgomerie could easily have taken himself out of the running, but his incontinent infatuation with himself and his place in the public eye won't allow him to do that.

We were pretty bloody fortunate to win at Celtic Manor (as well as Medinah of course) and no-one's ever come out and praised Montgomerie's inspirational leadership. Have they?

Agree with all of that...............although these RC's do tend to become "love ins" once it's won and i think quite a few were lauding Monty as a heroic leader............

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2013/0114/1224328803399.html

The above Irish Times article is interesting.....................

I remember getting slaughtered a couple of times when I suggested Nontys win was a tad fortuitous... how times change.