Ryder Cup Captain 2014 - Congratulations Paul McGinley

First topic message reminder :

DC's come out and said he doesn't think he should be Ryder Cup captain in 2014. Olly has said he'll never do it again. How many more people need to make some sort of gesture before Monty rules himself out and leaves the way clear for McGinley?

Just a couple of comments in response to Jas.

Faldo accepted in numerous interviews & books that Seve paved the way for the europeans to believe they could win in the US.

Monty won no majors & was a winning captain AT HOME

Faldo won 6 majors & was a losing RC captain AWAY

Would Olazabal have been a bad captain if Kaymer would have missed the putt & Woods have put his brain in gear?

Lyle liked to portray himself as Mr Nice Guy, but he was always making snide comments abou Faldo.Jealousy perhaps?

North America v Europe is the topic at hand?

Well, some important happenings of late regarding that other frustrating Scottish Sport:

http://islandsportsnews.net/regional-news/alberta/1-sports/5029-team-north-america-claims-wfg-continental-cup

Interesting stuff John,
Hadn't realised Casey was on the committee; sincerely doubt he'd be in Montgomerie's court after the way the Captain's picks were handled in 2010.
Surprised to read that Stenson is there - hardly the model Touring Pro and can't see why he'd be a Monty man.

Betting now in favour of McGinley, 1/3 against Monty 2/1 on SkyBet. Hope they're right.

To be honest I would be shocked if it is not McGinley. He has done his apprenticeship, Twice RC Vice Captain and twice winning captain of the Seve Trophy team and has been on the players committee for years and very well respected by his peers. One think that is interesting though is that Tom Watson was his golfing hero when he was growing up.

Shotrock wrote:North America v Europe is the topic at hand?

Well, some important happenings of late regarding that other frustrating Scottish Sport:

http://islandsportsnews.net/regional-news/alberta/1-sports/5029-team-north-america-claims-wfg-continental-cup

Congrats to Canada ..err ... North America.

Blimey, next year's event is going to be held in Las Vegas. Who'd a thunk it.

Canada v rest of world might not be much of a match!

There was a very well attended bonspiel in Las Vegas this fall. Some friends of mine went but are in commentary lockdown.

Skydriver wrote:

gaelgowfer wrote:Of course, I have never met McGinley but he comes across to me as having all the qualities needed to get the best out of any team handed to him.

Not wanting or meaning to re-open old wounds, but didn't you have a dispute (presumably with his company rather than the man personally though)... over club hire or something like that?

[Sorry, a bit OT]

Bit confused here. Am I supposed to dignify your post with a response? No matter, I do believe you've answered your own question anyway.

Shotrock wrote:Canada v rest of world might not be much of a match!

There was a very well attended bonspiel in Las Vegas this fall. Some friends of mine went but are in commentary lockdown.

Aye, the canadians take this game very seriously. Of course, one has to remember that half the population is of scottish descent!

kwinigolfer wrote:Interesting stuff John,
Hadn't realised Casey was on the committee; sincerely doubt he'd be in Montgomerie's court after the way the Captain's picks were handled in 2010.
Surprised to read that Stenson is there - hardly the model Touring Pro and can't see why he'd be a Monty man.

Stenson is 100% vote for Monty......he's on record as saying that he doesn't believe McGinley should be the next Captain

Gael - genuine question which you've indirectly answered thanks (i.e. it was indeed yourself, but you hold no prejudice against the man despite your experience with his company).

Your choice of language suggests I've done something wrong by asking, so I'll just say "sorry".

gaelgowfer wrote:

Shotrock wrote:Canada v rest of world might not be much of a match!

There was a very well attended bonspiel in Las Vegas this fall. Some friends of mine went but are in commentary lockdown.

Aye, the canadians take this game very seriously. Of course, one has to remember that half the population is of scottish descent!

Must you look for a tenuous Scottish link in everything?
I get the impression someone could murder your entire family but as long as they were Scottish you'd forgive them

So, if Montgomerie has done enough self-publicising to get himself the nod, he has Donald, Harrington, McIlroy, Poulter and Rose all on record as preferring another captain, plus presumably Casey if he gets in, oh and Coltart - though he must be a long-shot!

Cracking start.

I don't think Harrington has to worry who is Captain Kwini, also Coltart has retired, ironically because he has too much of a short-shot on the course. We now have to suffer his dreadful punditry.

Europe could probably put a tub of lard or Adolf Hitler in charge though and still beat America.

A bit tongue in cheek there s_r, but haven't heard of anyone, except Stenson presumably, come out and say the "tub of lard", as you put it!, should be the choice.

Super - Ha! Time will tell - but if the the most recent RC is any indication, I look for another close event.

However, I never felt this captain thing was all that important. You can't teach people to care and you certainly can't teach someone to handle the pressure if they are so confronted with it.

I was just being a little flippant there SR.
Sure it will be close, certainly if America ditch their deadwood like Nine Chins Woods, Mickelson and Stricker. Probably more responsible for the last 3 of America's recent defeats.
Dreadful records.

Does anyone remember McGinley first agreeing to be a vice capt with Faldo and then suddenly pulling out? My recollection is that it didn't help in getting things off to a good start, but I may well be wrong. Wouldn't be a first!

Can't understand why Darren has flip flopped and overall seemed to panic when US appointed Watson.

Please not Monty! Everyone likes to BS a little, but every now and then we get to listen to a real pro! Couldn't stand more stuttering self congratulatory BS!

I have some misgivings re McGinley but overall probably the best bet. Bjorn after all had his spat with Woosie, and right now they are the possibles for me.

Faldono1fan wrote:Just a couple of comments in response to Jas.

Faldo accepted in numerous interviews & books that Seve paved the way for the europeans to believe they could win in the US.

Monty won no majors & was a winning captain AT HOME

Faldo won 6 majors & was a losing RC captain AWAY

Would Olazabal have been a bad captain if Kaymer would have missed the putt & Woods have put his brain in gear?

Lyle liked to portray himself as Mr Nice Guy, but he was always making snide comments abou Faldo.Jealousy perhaps?

FN1F, not going to get into a Lyle/Faldo slanging match and don't get me wrong I admire greatly what Faldo achieved in winning 6 majors and the way he did it through sheer force of will. I also quite like his commentary as he tells it like it is but.....a good Ryder Cup captain he was NOT, even allowing for the fact that he had the more difficult away gig.

With regard to Lyle, whereas yes, Seve did pave the way and showed Europeans they could win in the U.S. Lyle was one of the first to take advantage of that and was the first Brit to win the Open since Jacklin and the first Brit to win the Masters. Given their mutual dislike. Faldo was never going to give him credit for that in print. Also I don't think Lyle tries to portray himself as anything different than what he actually is (which may actually have been his undoing if he wanted the Captaincy at some point). With regard to alleged snide comments about Faldo, when it comes to snide comments and downright rude ignorant comments you don't need to look much further than your hero for a whole plethora of them.

The 10 people who will decide are as follows:

Clarke, Felipe Agilar, Casey, Gonzo, Joakim Haegmann, D.Howell, Jacquelin, Peter Lawrie, F. Molinari, Stenson.

T.Bijorn as Chairman votes in the event of a tie.

This is my take: Clarke - not known, Agilar - will hardly vote given that he is from Chile, Casey - McGinley, Gonzo - not known, Haegmann - not known,
Howell - not known, Peter Lawrie - McGinley, F. Molinari - not known, Stenson - Monty................

if its a straight vote between montgomerie and mcginley, its going to be a tough job for the mcginley camp to make their case given montgomerie's cv.

deciding on the basis of montgomerie having already had his go is simply not going to be a consideration if he is already on the shortlist of 2. if clarke was on the shortlist (and it appears that he is not) i could see an argument being made for dropping montgomerie and considering the other two on merits.

can't see past montgomery though the way things are looking.

It really depends what you are looking for on the CV though...............otherwise, let's just have Faldo every 2 years...........

barragan wrote:if its a straight vote between montgomerie and mcginley, its going to be a tough job for the mcginley camp to make their case given montgomerie's cv.

deciding on the basis of montgomerie having already had his go is simply not going to be a consideration if he is already on the shortlist of 2. if clarke was on the shortlist (and it appears that he is not) i could see an argument being made for dropping montgomerie and considering the other two on merits.

can't see past montgomery though the way things are looking.

When the core of the next team have all come out in support of McGinley? I can't see how anyone could give it to Monty in that circumstance unless they wanted to set him up.

cv wise - montgomerie has skippered a winning r.c. side which counts a lot more than mcginleys seve trophy wins. professional record isn't nearly as relevant (though it adds up to an aura/reputation which will be important in the eyes of some). there is a glimmer for mcginley though. montgomerie's annoying-ness, coupled by the fact he only 'just' captained a winning team, will help in his favour. if monty had won 16(+)-12(-) , i'd say he was dead cert.

i don't think the players that have spoken out in support of either potential captain will come out of this looking particularly smart either.

It's interesting that yesterday I was thinking McIlroy may have made things difficult by voicing his opinion (i.e. what then happens if Monty is given the nod when Rory has said publicy he shouldn't be captain again), but as of today, I am now admiring him for taking the lead given that others have joined him.

I'm also grateful to him that Nike golf attire is considered cool again as of yesterday, seeing as I have some of their garments. [and yes, I am being flippant here. Well, sort of. I do have some Nike clothes and have always liked their trainers.]

Personally I think that the players should keep their tweets shut. The committee has a choice to make and shouldn't be swayed by potential players applying pressure either way.
It maybe not be a pure golfing decision, the committee is no doubt under pressure from sponsors and broadcasters to pick a name who will help them market the event. They should be left to sort it out themselves.

agreed re the tweets. if he wants to have an influence then he should have joined the committee. otherwise shut your trap.

Just because players aren't on the committee, or rather perhaps precisely because they're not on the committee, they should still be able to express their preference. The committee is meant to represent the interests of all members of the tour. In this particular matter many players, whether they're likely to make the team or not, have come out in support of McGinley. The committee members are obliged to pay heed to that.

have a word in private with some committee members or write a letter of support to the committee. Twitter isnt the right medium.

spot on diggers

sky, do you have a white nike buckle belt?

But the players arent privy to all the facts that the committee have to take into account, so IMO their well publicised opinions dont help matters.
If they want to show support privately then thats fine, why the need to make everything public these days and stoke more fuel into whats already a volatile situation ?

hend085 wrote:have a word in private with some committee members or write a letter of support to the committee. Twitter isnt the right medium.

twitter - all it does is show how attention hungry these guys are. shamefull.

barragan wrote:sky, do you have a white nike buckle belt?

No!

How dare you.

hend085 wrote:have a word in private with some committee members or write a letter of support to the committee. Twitter isnt the right medium.

Handwritten with a quill and sealed in an envelope with a wax stamp? Delivered by carrier pigeon?

yeah right, sure you don't

sj - that sounds much better than twitter

Diggers wrote:Personally I think that the players should keep their tweets shut. The committee has a choice to make and shouldn't be swayed by potential players applying pressure either way.
It maybe not be a pure golfing decision, the committee is no doubt under pressure from sponsors and broadcasters to pick a name who will help them market the event. They should be left to sort it out themselves.

Diggers, I just dont get the point re: "under pressure from sponsors"... how? Surely any sponsors will be interested in sponsoring simply for the fact its the Ryder Cup... what difference does it make who is captaining the side? I can think of no reason why a sponsor would only have an interest in the event if McGinley/Montgomerie/Clarke were leading Team Europe. They are hardly current and ripping up trees at present are they? Even though its being held in Scotland I dont think it matter one iota who out of those 3 leads the team sponsors will still fully back it. If sponsors need some form of encouragement to backing the event they only need to watch the final days play from 2012.

And broadcasters? Again, the committee won't care about that, think back to Celtic Manor, Sky and it's Golf croonies were throwing they're backing AGAINST Padraig Harrington getting picked as a wild card (Rob Lee was especially damning).

SmithersJones wrote:

hend085 wrote:have a word in private with some committee members or write a letter of support to the committee. Twitter isnt the right medium.

Handwritten with a quill and sealed in an envelope with a wax stamp? Delivered by carrier pigeon?

Well probably just phoning would be fine, if its possible these days to...heaven forbid...have a one on one conversation with somebody else that doesnt involve sharing your thoughts with a million "followers".

Gareth_NI wrote:

Diggers wrote:Personally I think that the players should keep their tweets shut. The committee has a choice to make and shouldn't be swayed by potential players applying pressure either way.
It maybe not be a pure golfing decision, the committee is no doubt under pressure from sponsors and broadcasters to pick a name who will help them market the event. They should be left to sort it out themselves.

Diggers, I just dont get the point re: "under pressure from sponsors"... how? Surely any sponsors will be interested in sponsoring simply for the fact its the Ryder Cup... what difference does it make who is captaining the side? I can think of no reason why a sponsor would only have an interest in the event if McGinley/Montgomerie/Clarke were leading Team Europe. They are hardly current and ripping up trees at present are they? Even though its being held in Scotland I dont think it matter one iota who out of those 3 leads the team sponsors will still fully back it. If sponsors need some form of encouragement to backing the event they only need to watch the final days play from 2012.

And broadcasters? Again, the committee won't care about that, think back to Celtic Manor, Sky and it's Golf croonies were throwing they're backing AGAINST Padraig Harrington getting picked as a wild card (Rob Lee was especially damning).

I think you are underplaying how important marketing is seen in this day and age. Nobody will be thinking that the RC just sells itself, they will be thinking we want to maximise every little bit of publicity that we can for the event. Especially in the huge American market, where lets face it McGinley is pretty much unknown.
But hey, I could be wrong, just my views on it really. I always thought there would be issues with McGinley getting the nod and that appears to bet he case even though he may well still manage it.

Skydriver wrote:Gael - genuine question which you've indirectly answered thanks (i.e. it was indeed yourself, but you hold no prejudice against the man despite your experience with his company).

Your choice of language suggests I've done something wrong by asking, so I'll just say "sorry".

Skydriver ... sometimes it can be impossible to tell whether or not a poster is asking a question in all innocence or just trying to start an argument. Your post fell into that 'in between' category so apologies for getting it wrong.

Paul McGinley had nothing to do with yon spanish fiasco and it would have been very small-minded for me to have held a grudge against him for what was someone else's c**k-up.

Diggers ... does it really matter whether or not the americans know Paul McGinley? Aren't they just intersted in their own mob?

Besides which, I thought the yanks hated Monty!

Gael, I dont think they do really hate Monty do they, but even if they did.. hate sells. Everyone loves a grudge match.

Diggers wrote:Gael, I dont think they do really hate Monty do they, but even if they did.. hate sells. Everyone loves a grudge match.

True ... true ...

It may be a bit pushy of the players to tweet their support of McGinley, but certainly not at the level of Montgomerie's statements. Montgomerie could so easily have said he was not interested, but NO! He embraces all the attention:
"It would be a dream come true if I could be seen to be captain at home in Scotland."
Yes, Colin, and that "dream" would surely have come true if you hadn't barged to the front of the queue and taken the Celtic Manor gig. And I'm glad you did, job done and job well done, thank you very much.

But now it's someone else's turn and I don't doubt that part of the motivation for players' support of McGinley is self-interest in maintaining an order for their own opportunity down the road. (Would still think that Bjorn and even Robbie Karlsson would have a place in that queue, hope so, anyway.)


PS: If the "yanks" (hate that word!) don't hate Monty, they've shown that in a strange old way these past twenty years (tho' Feherty owns a big part of that).

I really hate how Monty is playing on being Scottish as a reason for being a Captain at Gleneagles. Was a in charge at the K Club. Will we have a garlic muncher in charge in France in 2018? No

kwinigolfer wrote:It may be a bit pushy of the players to tweet their support of McGinley, but certainly not at the level of Montgomerie's statements. Montgomerie could so easily have said he was not interested, but NO! He embraces all the attention:
"It would be a dream come true if I could be seen to be captain at home in Scotland."
Yes, Colin, and that "dream" would surely have come true if you hadn't barged to the front of the queue and taken the Celtic Manor gig. And I'm glad you did, job done and job well done, thank you very much.

But now it's someone else's turn and I don't doubt that part of the motivation for players' support of McGinley is self-interest in maintaining an order for their own opportunity down the road. (Would still think that Bjorn and even Robbie Karlsson would have a place in that queue, hope so, anyway.)


PS: If the "yanks" (hate that word!) don't hate Monty, they've shown that in a strange old way these past twenty years (tho' Feherty owns a big part of that).

Monty has had some very unpleasant things to say about Americans, that's for sure. Not so strange to me he's alienated more than a few. But hate -- no (from my perspective).

He hears clouds banging overhead and walks around with a perpetual scowl (remind you of anyone?).

He's a Ryder Cup phenom on these shores, but other than that he never did much of anything. Never won a sanctioned event (50+ starts, I recall) and we all know what he did at majors here. And what of his never ending order of merits and his knowledge of how to play courses in the UK? Again o-fer in the Open Championship ... and he didn't just lose to true world beaters like Tiger, but was in his prime against the likes of Todd Hamilton and Justin Leonard.

Not sure what Hamilton and Leonard have got to do with Monty not winning Majors, would have thought St.Eldrick was in those fields also. (Assume he's the one with the "perpetual scowl"? Or is it Mitch McConnell??)

Great admirer of Montgomerie's playing record, runner up in five Majors not bad at all. Certainly should have won a couple.

But worthy of a second crack at the Ryder Cup - I don't think so.

Shotrock,
"Hate" is probably not the sentiment, more like endless ridicule, from the broadcast booth (Johnny Miller and Feherty) to the man at the muni. He may be over-bearing and over-weight but I don't think that excuses some of the vitriol that got hurled his way.

Mrs Doubtfire...still funny now.