Final Showdown Murray vs Djokovoic

First topic message reminder :

Everything is going by the plan, it was very much anticipated Murray - Djoko finals, however some might disagree majority including bookies expected it. In my view Murray is the form horse of the tournament even ahead of Djoko right now. Lets do Swot analysis

Murray perspective -

Strengths -
New Aggressive play [was able to stand with Fed]
Backhand at its full flow
Faced a Sterner opponent in semi's
Best Wheels
New found belief to beat top dogs.
Learning to be calm under pressure

Weakness
Mid Match focus lapse

Opportunities
To become No.1 later this year
Multiple GS Achivement

Threats
Djoko's form and favorite turf

Djokovic's perspective -

Strength
Complete game
Favorite turf
Knows opponents game better than his opponent knows of his game.
Better player under pressure

Weakness -
Haven't had a tougher test outside Stan [will be tested for sure by Murray]

Opportunities -
First player in open era to win AO 3 times in a row
Cling on to No.1 with Iron fist.

Threats -
Opponent's belief
Pressure to win as he starts heavy favorite

I predicted Murray to win USO even before the start of USO [ not bragging , but just wanna say I stick to my analysis and portray what my head says more than my heart], I cast Murray as the favourite to win the title at 65-35 % , I always love to give high percentage rather than sticking my neck and say its too close to predict.

Djoko's form is very scary but the pressure is on him to win and that will favour Murray this time around, I would be pleasently surprised if Murray doesn't win come Sunday. Whats your view guys?

emancipator wrote:

luciusmann wrote:Yes, I definitely would like to see a re-match like you, but it would very different, don't you think? No one knows what state we'll find Nadal in when he comes back and Djokovic won't have the pressure of trying to go for 4 slams in a row (which could lift the pressure).

You must remember how Djokovic surrendered his bid for the French Open, he double faulted on match point, I couldn't believe my eyes, when's the last time that happened in a grand slam final?

Hehe.. that was my favourite point of 2012

lol Hey, I wasn't raining on anyone's parade, just it was shocking (and yes, highly comical if you're not a big Djokovic fan)!

emancipator wrote:

luciusmann wrote:Yes, I definitely would like to see a re-match like you, but it would very different, don't you think? No one knows what state we'll find Nadal in when he comes back and Djokovic won't have the pressure of trying to go for 4 slams in a row (which could lift the pressure).

You must remember how Djokovic surrendered his bid for the French Open, he double faulted on match point, I couldn't believe my eyes, when's the last time that happened in a grand slam final?

Hehe.. that was my favourite point of 2012

Well, at-least there's something we can agree on Eman.

It Must Be Love wrote:

emancipator wrote:

luciusmann wrote:Yes, I definitely would like to see a re-match like you, but it would very different, don't you think? No one knows what state we'll find Nadal in when he comes back and Djokovic won't have the pressure of trying to go for 4 slams in a row (which could lift the pressure).

You must remember how Djokovic surrendered his bid for the French Open, he double faulted on match point, I couldn't believe my eyes, when's the last time that happened in a grand slam final?

Hehe.. that was my favourite point of 2012

Well, at-least there's something we can agree on Eman.

luciusmann wrote:Yes, I definitely would like to see a re-match like you, but it would very different, don't you think? No one knows what state we'll find Nadal in when he comes back and Djokovic won't have the pressure of trying to go for 4 slams in a row (which could lift the pressure).

You must remember how Djokovic surrendered his bid for the French Open, he double faulted on match point, I couldn't believe my eyes, when's the last time that happened in a grand slam final?

I'm not sure Nadal will struggle on clay tbh.

Yes he's been out for 8 months but prior to the European clay court season, he'll have played in the South Amercian clay court season and more than likely won 3 titles. Again no disrespect to anyone playing those events but Nadal at 50-60% beats them all.

If Nadal gets his confidence back, which I don't think will be too difficult on clay, he is after all the best ever on that surface, then I'd expect him to beat all and everyone at Roland Garros.

Yeah if Rafa gets back to winning ways in SA, which I fully expect him to, then he will be the clear favourite at RG.

emancipator wrote:

luciusmann wrote:Yes, I definitely would like to see a re-match like you, but it would very different, don't you think? No one knows what state we'll find Nadal in when he comes back and Djokovic won't have the pressure of trying to go for 4 slams in a row (which could lift the pressure).

You must remember how Djokovic surrendered his bid for the French Open, he double faulted on match point, I couldn't believe my eyes, when's the last time that happened in a grand slam final?

Hehe.. that was my favourite point of 2012

Followed by the other on set point?

No. He doesn't have a shot in RG.
No chance.

bogbrush wrote:

emancipator wrote:

luciusmann wrote:Yes, I definitely would like to see a re-match like you, but it would very different, don't you think? No one knows what state we'll find Nadal in when he comes back and Djokovic won't have the pressure of trying to go for 4 slams in a row (which could lift the pressure).

You must remember how Djokovic surrendered his bid for the French Open, he double faulted on match point, I couldn't believe my eyes, when's the last time that happened in a grand slam final?

Hehe.. that was my favourite point of 2012

Followed by the other on set point?

Yes yes, that too was a thing of beauty.

It Must Be Love wrote:No. He doesn't have a shot in RG.
No chance.

Who doesn't?

Gerry SA wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:No. He doesn't have a shot in RG.
No chance.

Who doesn't?

Nadull.

Or known as Lord Rafito.

Or simply 'el heréo'.

It Must Be Love wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:No. He doesn't have a shot in RG.
No chance.

Who doesn't?

Nadull.

You sure about that?

7 time, 3 time defending champion who's 52-1 at Roland Garros has no chance?

He's all ways the favourite.

Gerry SA wrote:
I'm not sure Nadal will struggle on clay tbh.

Yes he's been out for 8 months but prior to the European clay court season, he'll have played in the South Amercian clay court season and more than likely won 3 titles. Again no disrespect to anyone playing those events but Nadal at 50-60% beats them all.

If Nadal gets his confidence back, which I don't think will be too difficult on clay, he is after all the best ever on that surface, then I'd expect him to beat all and everyone at Roland Garros.

I broadly agree that he may have very few (or no) issues on his return, I just want to hold back until I start to see him play and see the wins pile up. He will see a lot of tennis action on clay before reaching the European clay court season and I'd like to see it first just to be sure.

So what's next on the calendar?

Gerry SA wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:No. He doesn't have a shot in RG.
No chance.

Who doesn't?

Nadull.

You sure about that?

7 time, 3 time defending champion who's 52-1 at Roland Garros has no chance?

He's all ways the favourite.

It was a preemptive defensive jinx.

Not the greatest of matches but you cannot always get the best in the final. Novak deserved winner, he started off quite poorly but was getting better as the match went on. Andy on the other hand dropped his level.

I have to say I found this to be one of the more boring slam finals in recent memory. Rafa is my least favorite out of top 4 but I find even his matches less boring, at least his game looks more unorthodox.

Not really sure how to improve the game though. Speeding conditions up is also dangerous, I found serve fests of the late 90s even duller than this. I would definitely not have woken up early to watch Sampras play Ivanisevic. That said, if Federer were to retire, Rafa came back and we ended up with the top 4 consisting of Rafa, Nole, Andy and David, later replaced with youngsters playing similar style, I am not sure what that would do to my level of interest in the game.

CAS wrote:I never thought I'd say this but I want Rafa to gatecrash these two, see if he has anything left to show them

Same here, finals was of a sorry state, bring back the Bull.

VAMOOS NADULLL

summerblues wrote:Not the greatest of matches but you cannot always get the best in the final. Novak deserved winner, he started off quite poorly but was getting better as the match went on. Andy on the other hand dropped his level.

I agree to your first line that Novak the deserving winner, but don't agree the second line, coz Novak played poorly and Andy played the poorest in the tail part of the match, it was more or less a competition of who played the worst and Andy out did Novak in this department and hence lost the match.

summerblues wrote:I have to say I found this to be one of the more boring slam finals in recent memory. Rafa is my least favorite out of top 4 but I find even his matches less boring, at least his game looks more unorthodox.

Not really sure how to improve the game though. Speeding conditions up is also dangerous, I found serve fests of the late 90s even duller than this. I would definitely not have woken up early to watch Sampras play Ivanisevic. That said, if Federer were to retire, Rafa came back and we ended up with the top 4 consisting of Rafa, Nole, Andy and David, later replaced with youngsters playing similar style, I am not sure what that would do to my level of interest in the game.

Just take the strings off them. Make them play with gut and all this garbage is finished. Overnight.

bogbrush wrote:

summerblues wrote:I have to say I found this to be one of the more boring slam finals in recent memory. Rafa is my least favorite out of top 4 but I find even his matches less boring, at least his game looks more unorthodox.

Not really sure how to improve the game though. Speeding conditions up is also dangerous, I found serve fests of the late 90s even duller than this. I would definitely not have woken up early to watch Sampras play Ivanisevic. That said, if Federer were to retire, Rafa came back and we ended up with the top 4 consisting of Rafa, Nole, Andy and David, later replaced with youngsters playing similar style, I am not sure what that would do to my level of interest in the game.

Just take the strings off them. Make them play with gut and all this garbage is finished. Overnight.

But that affects all the recreational players for whom current strings makes the game far more enjoyable and far less expensive.

Ok, just at the professional level if you want.

I've watched nearly half the match, and it does seem a bit boring... But lets have some perspective here. A bad match is a rarity between these two. The 4 matches they played before this were really good. Full of drama, momentum swings and going right to the wire.

Their rivalry and their qualities should not be defined by their worst encounter. Especially when 4 of the last 5 have been very enjoyable.

bogbrush wrote:Ok, just at the professional level if you want.

Yeah, but then how do you make the transitional from budding pro to pro, without having to totally adjust your game to different strings? It's a nice idea, but it's unworkable I fear.

1. Ban really stiff poly like Luxilon, soft poly would be ok...you'd need a stiffness rating
2. Stop tensions under 50lbs, high stiffness allows 40lbs to be effective giving players a double power whammy.

Banning Luxilon for amateurs is fine...it's a huge cause of tennis elbow.

Novak hardly missed a Fh the last 2 sets was like he was playing on a bigger court and than Murray. Simply no one is better than Novak on these slow cushion courts, even Federer from 2005 would struggle.

A good post JM I hold out hope for you in the long run, you too can recreate yourself like how Djokovic molded himself to steel.

The problem is Murray tries to out-Djokovic Djokovic which isn't going to happen most of the time. You can see in most ralleys that Djokovic is better at creating angles and can turn defence to attack quicker than just about anyone. I didn't think he was anywhere near his best today and he still ran out a clear winner at the end.

Q: why was Murray much closer to Novak 12 months ago than today?

It Must Be Love wrote:Or simply 'el heréo'.

IMBL don't get too excited let him come back and make a strong comeback , if he doesn't make a good comeback I am sorry Tennis is in dire straights with RF's legs giving up

Lydian - for 2 sets they were neck and neck. And had Murray been more brave with those BP's at the start of the second we could be talking about a different match now.

Why did Murray get passive instead of going for the throat from a position of ascendancy? I have no idea! After all that 2012 should have shown him, that is the baffling thing. He was always going to run out of steam before Novak, so it was a bizarre tactic.

But at the same time lets not go OTT here. He was outplayed for 2 sets, hardly concrete evidence to start thinking he's slipped miles behind. This is the first time in 6 months and 5 matches that there has been a bit of distance in the result between them. Murray has made great strides, and one backward step shouldn't be over analysed.

I hope Lendl reminds him of what got him to where he now is, and gets him back to playing that way. I still back him to win at least 1 slam this year and I think it will be Wimbledon.

lydian wrote:The problem is Murray tries to out-Djokovic Djokovic which isn't going to happen most of the time. You can see in most ralleys that Djokovic is better at creating angles and can turn defence to attack quicker than just about anyone. I didn't think he was anywhere near his best today and he still ran out a clear winner at the end.

Q: why was Murray much closer to Novak 12 months ago than today?

Injury isn't an excuse but Murray was in a better state last year?

lydian wrote:1. Ban really stiff poly like Luxilon, soft poly would be ok...you'd need a stiffness rating
2. Stop tensions under 50lbs, high stiffness allows 40lbs to be effective giving players a double power whammy.

Banning Luxilon for amateurs is fine...it's a huge cause of tennis elbow.

I hate to say it. If tennis decided to bring back natural gut, won't the extreme veggies come out in protest?

Raonic is the only player I have heard who's tension is below 50lbs. I heard it was 40!!

I think if we are proposing changes, then maybe not be so extreme that baseline rallying is extinct. I would say speed up Wimbledon to Queens like speed and speed up Arthur Ashe!

legendkillarV2 wrote:...and speed up Arthur Ashe!

Well, he could hardly get any slower.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:...and speed up Arthur Ashe!

Well, he could hardly get any slower.

I often think his grave moves quicker than the court

legendkillarV2 wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:...and speed up Arthur Ashe!

Well, he could hardly get any slower.

I often think his grave moves quicker than the court

Fucoffin

(No offense, it just popped into my head - too much?)