Irish U20s Six Nations Squad

First topic message reminder :

John Andrew (Ballymena/Ulster)
Jake Caulfield (Malone/Ulster)
John Creighton (Malone /Ulster)
Steve Crosbie (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Thomas Daly (Lansdowne/Leinster)
John Donnan (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Peter Dooley (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Conor Joyce (Malone/Ulster)
Sean McCarthy (Shannon/Munster)
Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster)
George McGuigan (Newcastle Falcons/Exile)
Ryan Murphy (Dolphin/Munster)
Stuart Olding (Belfast Harlequins /Ulster)
Alexander O'Meara (Hartpury/ Exiles)
David Panther (Corinthians/Connacht)
Rory Scannell (Dolphin/Munster)
Rory Scholes (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Brian Scott (UCC/Munster)
Darren Sweetnam (UCC/Munster)
Christopher Taylor (Malone/Ulster)
Gavin Thornbury (UCD/Leinster)
Peadar Timmins (UCD/Leinster)
Josh Van Der Flier (UCD/Leinster)


First game is vs Wales - Fri 1st Feb 19:10 Wales U20 v Ireland U20 Parc Eirias. I think it's on RTE 2.

Bit disappointed - I was hoping Olding might leapfrog NOC during the Grown-Ups 6N. I know the Ravens had been playing with him at 10 and O'Connor at 12. He and Joyce have had senior caps - I think Rory Scholes played in a friendly back at the start of the season? Missing Farrell, who is still eligible, due to injury.

Chance for Luke McGarth to start his bid for Leinster scrumhalf-ship?

Golden wrote:Has McGrath stopped kicking? or is Daly just deemed the better kicker?

McGrath has never kicked for Ireland.

Golden wrote:Has McGrath stopped kicking? or is Daly just deemed the better kicker?

Daly has been kicking well for his club apparently. He is a guarentee to be in the Leinster academy next year.

Morgannwg wrote:

wales606 wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:

wales606 wrote:Missed conversion

Even if we manage to win this game, we won't beat France or England without a goal kicker (Patchell is supposed to be back to play Scotland and England apparently)

Do you know if we get Jordan Williams back before then?

Forgot Jordan Williams was eligible, don't know when he will be back - he has been out for a while hasn't he?

Ethan Davies is in the 10 spot on the bench, never heard of him though.

He played against Sale. He's a livewire with ball in hand. Far better than Davies, but Davies was gash last year and they're still playing him.

Jordan or Ethan?

He was a pretty good goal kicker at schools level if i remember right.

wales606 wrote:The online commentary has changed to the normal one!!!

Good, maybe I can stop punching things now.

The Irish might as well have fifteen backs on the field, their scrum is non existant.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Golden wrote:Has McGrath stopped kicking? or is Daly just deemed the better kicker?

Daly has been kicking well for his club apparently. He is a guarentee to be in the Leinster academy next year.

Good to hear, Very good opportunity for him in the next couple of years

Wales need the ball to go dead so they can get back to 15.

Cory Allen has saved Wales a few times, he is an excellent defender in midfield, especially for age grade level. He should progress from the U20s well, when the Blues finally give him a chance

Crosbie going off injured. Hes looked pretty good, consistently breaking the line. Olding to ten?

Wow, after 20 phases Ireland are prevented from scoring a try, but they do get a penalty. Sadly Crosbie appears to be injured. Daly kicking for the penalty.

17-15 at 76 minutes.

Ireland going for the penaly

17 - 15

Wales have got to defend like mad now as Ireland are on the attack.

The Welsh getting away with murder at the breakdown.

Not surprisingly, Luke McGrath is MOTM.

Cory Allen's excellent hit leads Wales to finally turnover ball and set up a scrum.

And Ireland win the ball from the Welsh scrum.

Allen up quick in defence again.

To be fair to Ireland, they're making some great passes, just not getting through the defence.

McGrath looks the part as does olding. Other than that it is hard to say.

Should also add the hooker did well

That scrum half does not have a future

Wales turnover and the kick just bounces before going in to touch on the Irish 10Ms

That bloke on the PA is an annoying git. I know he's trying to gee up the crowd, but STFU when they're playing.

Why in gods name did they kick that?

17-15 Wales just about scrape a win.

Standulstermen wrote:McGrath looks the part as does olding. Other than that it is hard to say.

Thought Daly and Scannel well good.. Mike Ruddock doesn't know how to make subs. It was the same in the JWC.

Ireland will have to score from 80 metres if they want to win.

Wales defence has won them this if they hold on. Cory Allen would be my Welsh MOTM, excellent defence in this last 20.

Ireland SH kicks it dead in the 80th minute? Why?

FT 17 - 15

Well done Wales, probably deserved it.

They did ok but I can't see it. Albeit only based on one game so who knows

Well played Ireland, the better team for me. Sam Davies almost cost Wales the game with his kicking and non-existent tackling. We'll get demolished in France if there aren't a few changes.

Standulstermen wrote:They did ok but I can't see it. Albeit only based on one game so who knows

They weren't supplied with good ball. It annoys me that Josh Van Der Flier is on the bench and doesn't get on till the 77th minute. The pack looked very tired after about 60 mins.

Key points tonight were the scrum, Irelands lack of muscle (through injury according to Ruddock) and Wales total lack of ground work in defence.

Was impressed with...

Rhodri Williams (need to work on that box though)

Jenkins (although was blowing late on)

Hewitt was ok too.

Really dissapointing was...

Davies defence!

Allen's lack of first half (doesn't half hit like a steam train though)

Thomas ability to do anything except stand at 1st guard or directly behind the ruck every time!

What a great effort by the Welsh forwards tonight, also have to give a mention to the Irish backs as well, but one must think how the the likes of Patchell, Robinson, Amos and a few other I have forgotten to mention would have done with the platform the forwards could have given them tonight.

bluesman, that centre partnership clearly doesn't work. I don't blame that on Allen. He plays well for the U20s, Blues and Sevens whenever called upon. He looks better with Pascoe inside him, who also has experience with Pontypridd and last years U20s. I would start him next week unless Dixon returns. And also hope and pray that Patchell or Williams come into the squad.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:They did ok but I can't see it. Albeit only based on one game so who knows

They weren't supplied with good ball. It annoys me that Josh Van Der Flier is on the bench and doesn't get on till the 77th minute. The pack looked very tired after about 60 mins.

Disagree the got plenty of good ball in the second half. The weren't bad they just weren't standout. The 10 did decently as well. McGrath and Olding look like they could play Pro12 now though.

Standulstermen wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:They did ok but I can't see it. Albeit only based on one game so who knows

They weren't supplied with good ball. It annoys me that Josh Van Der Flier is on the bench and doesn't get on till the 77th minute. The pack looked very tired after about 60 mins.

Disagree the got plenty of good ball in the second half. The weren't bad they just weren't standout. The 10 did decently as well. McGrath and Olding look like they could play Pro12 now though.

Agree with Olding and Mcgrath. Is it just me or has McGrath bulked up a bit?

Ye I agree Morg, normally Allen is standout but he got very little, and by the 60th minute decided to take the welsh defencive effort up on his own, he blitzed and left the winger looking on.

Allen has quality, he just didn't have a chance to use it tonight, whereas a number of other players really fell short.

Have to say though I disagree with all the comments on the ref, he allowed a bit more than some at the breakdown, and played long advantages but he was very consistent and if more ref's were as good as that this would be a non issue

thebluesmancometh wrote:Ye I agree Morg, normally Allen is standout but he got very little, and by the 60th minute decided to take the welsh defencive effort up on his own, he blitzed and left the winger looking on.

Allen has quality, he just didn't have a chance to use it tonight, whereas a number of other players really fell short.

Have to say though I disagree with all the comments on the ref, he allowed a bit more than some at the breakdown, and played long advantages but he was very consistent and if more ref's were as good as that this would be a non issue

I agree, he reffed the both teams exactly the same tonight, and as ever, you can never really blame the ref com scrum time, the Irish knew they were in trouble at the scrum and did all they could to disrupt it and the ref was a little easy on the Irish front row although he did penalise them a few could have had yellows, but after all is said, I cannot really complain about the ref tonight, he knew he was reffing kids and was more of a teaching ref if you know what I mean

Lord

Question is if he reffed the game tomorrow the same would you take it now as it stands or run the risk of a poor reffing performance from Poite is it?

i'd take tonights ref in a heartbeat if he reffed tomorrows game to the same level of tonights game, but personally i'd take my youngest daughter for a ref tomorrow over Poite.

P.S Can we have the same touch judge that we had the last time you lot came to Cardiff.

Is it true that the welsh team are all 18 and 17 year olds - That's a lot to give away at this level but might help to explain the poor performance IMO - Ireland played all the controlled rugby and clearly they were better coached - Wales just dogged it out and defended well

England put out almost an enitre team of 18 years olds last year. Their defence, skills and determination was excellent. You rarely see this from Wales junior teams (JWC aside).

I thought the Welsh backs were awful in attack.

It wasn't an amazingly young side but it was young for us!

Ruby, the level of coaching was evident, especially at the breakdown and when you consider Ireland were missing 5 or so forwards it says a bit!!

10, 12 and 15 in particular. Notice anything there... Low Value cup.

Not awfull Glas but Irish forwards slowed the ball down well, our backs weren't great though and the 15 Jones looks like a typical big boy at junior level, he ran with the ball too much, too lateral, and his basic skillset was awfull. He was big quick and strong but lacked any real rugby brain.

Sorry but that ref was very poor. He hadn't a clue about the scrum, didn't call the lineouts, missed offsides and forward passes - even his calls to the clock were off.

Wales should have won that game easily but their half backs were surprisingly poor and kept Ireland in the game.

For Ireland only Olding and McGrath looked to have a pro future (maybe McGuigan). Scannell and Daly were ok in attack but paper thin in defence. Crosbie doesn't look like a 10 - if he has to kick. He was good with ball in hand and should be at 12 but his kicking from hand was embarrassing.

Glas a du wrote:I thought the Welsh backs were awful in attack.

Only plus was the 13 in defence - Is Nigels boy in there because he's Nigels boy as he offered very little

The Great Aukster wrote:
For Ireland only Olding and McGrath looked to have a pro future (maybe McGuigan). Scannell and Daly were ok in attack but paper thin in defence. Crosbie doesn't look like a 10 - if he has to kick. He was good with ball in hand and should be at 12 but his kicking from hand was embarrassing.

Its too early to judge. Actually I thought Crosbie, Scannell and Daly played very well and I'd say Daly will be in the Leinster academy next seaosn and Scannel in the Munster academy. Crosbie didn't kick great but he attacked well in fairness. Did you see the match last season between Ireland and Wales? It was a poor scrappy game and Ireland had Hanrahan, Jackson, Marmion and Chris Farrell among their backs.

Blues they were awful. They had a few real opportunities from range and failed to convert. Bugger all to do with whether the ball had been slow.

Glas - I'm off to bed mate, do us favour, put the dog out one more time, bring some coal in and bring my cocoa up - Night night, enjoy the game tomorrow

profitius wrote:Its too early to judge.

Fair enough - my terminology lacks a lot. What I'm looking for are the guys (particularly in the backs) playing with their head up. Last season IIRC Ireland got mullered in the scrum as well, but won the game with drop goals from Jackson and McGrath. Luke didn't start last year because Marmion was more solid tactically, but the experience has made him a better player this time. However even last year he showed, for example through that drop goal that he was alert to the opportunities around him.

Too often at this level we see guys particularly in the centres who don't pass when they should. This is a legacy of their school teams who often put their most penetrating runners there to see as much ball as possible and they often run through defences. What it doesn't do is teach them to be very good passers. Crosbie made some great breaks but he needs to learn when to pass, when to hold and when to run. For example he made a scything break on one occasion only to off-load to a Welsh player at the end. It looked as though he was trying to get full value for his break when the pass was never on. On another occasion Daly made a nice break and had Scholes running a line on his shoulder that would have put him clean through, but he didn't pass! Yes these guys are young but there are plenty of really good young backs at the provinces already and if these guys are to make it they need to be savvy in the top two inches as well as the bottom six feet.