Scotland vs Italy - time to get serious - build up thread

[R!skysports]

First topic message reminder :

Well we have had our first kick in the teeth for 2013, with a terrible performance against a strong England. Can we turn it around in time for Italy. Only two changes, both forced by injury. If this a good thing, or a sign of managers without a clue

Team for Saturday

Scotland team to play Italy:
Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors);
Sean Maitland (Glasgow Warriors),
Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors),
Matt Scott (Edinburgh),
Tim Visser (Edinburgh);
Ruaridh Jackson (Glasgow Warriors),
Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh);
Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors),
Ross Ford (Edinburgh),
Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors),
Richie Gray (Sale Sharks),
Jim Hamilton (Gloucester),
Rob Harley (Glasgow Warriors),
Kelly Brown (Saracens),
Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier).

Replacements: Dougie Hall (Glasgow Warriors)/Pat MacArthur (Glasgow Warriors), Moray Low (Glasgow Warriors), Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby), Alastair Kellock (Glasgow Warriors), David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby), Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors), Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors), Max Evans (Castres).


Who should be on last chance saloon - Hamilton, Ford, Jackson and Lamont.


Concerned - Brown playing at 7 still


So how do you expect this to go. If italy play like they did at the weekend, we will lose. It is in our hands to get ourselves our of this mess, but do we have the passion, defensive ability or even the still to do so?


Current Italy Squad

15-Andrea Masi,
14-Giovanbattista Venditti,
13-Tommaso Benvenuti,
12-Gonzalo Canale,
11-Luke McLean,
10-Luciano Orquera,
9-Tobias Botes;
1-Andrea Lo Cicero,
2-Leonardo Ghiraldini,
3-Martin Castrogiovanni,
4-Quintin Geldenhuys,
5-Francesco Minto,
6-Alessandro Zanni,
7-Simone Favaro,
8-Sergio Parisse (capt)

Replacements: 16-Davide Giazzon, 17-Alberto De Marchi, 18-Lorenzo Cittadini, 19-Antonio Pavanello, 20-Paul Derbyshire, 21-Kris Burton, 22-Gonzalo Garcia

[George Carlin]

Page 3.

Other appropriate songs for Murrayfield:

"God Only Knows"
"Born to Lose"
"Even The Loser"
"Nowhere Man"
"Three Times The Loser"
"Somethings Gone Wrong Again"
"You Oughta Know"

[tigertattie]

Geroge. Thats very negative of you!

No wonder we are going down the drain. We need to support the guys

Bring back the "Gie it Ladly" chant I say!!!

[George Carlin]

Sorry - this is POST Andy Robinson, right?

So how about:

“Don’t Stop Me Now”
“Dancing In The Streets”
“Top Of The World”
“Lovely Day”
“Don’t Worry, Be Happy”
“Beautiful Day”
“The 59th Street Bridge Song (Feelin’ Groovy)”
“I Can See Clearly Now”
“Walking On Sunshine”
“A Beautiful Morning”
“What A Wonderful World”
"Toonie, I'm only dancing"

[Solid8]

I think that this would be a good choice of song for the Murrayfield faithful to sing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j7quobEQNs

[Bathman_in_London]

I think team selection and tactics should be viewed separately, and I think that tactics can change from game to game in view of the opposition.

This is a better side to face Italy than the side chosen to face England.

Will need to listen to this new "anthem" when I get back from work - I do think we could use a few more songs at Murrayfield. Maybe this is why Max Evans is in the squad - for his voice!

Sadly it was his brother who thought he could sing. So the mystery remains...

[funnyExiledScot]

I've heard Max Evans does a mean rendition of Message in a Bottle....

[George Carlin]

I've heard Max Evans does a mean rendition of Message in a Bottle....

Followed by Street Fighting Man.

[tigertattie]

Post Robinson choice of song

"I'm gonna wash that man right outta my hair"

The irony of it amuses me also - Would be great if they could get Ritchie Gray to sing it too!

[bsando]

Definitely! To be fair on Kelly brown, he does do alright at 7 considering he's a much better 6. He managed once or twice to get over the ball in rucks vs England. But having Barclay or rennie back would really sort out the backrow big time, or fusaro for that matter. I think Roddy grant would have been a good choice at 7 after his great performances in 1872 cup.

On plus side, harley is getting a proper go at it which he may not have got if rennie or barclay were fit. I think he might surprise everyone and be one of those players who really shines on the international stage. Looking forward to seeng how he gets on. Best thing about young inexperienced players is they always want to prove their worth. Or at least they should.

[funnyExiledScot]

I think Harley has earned this start. He's been consistently good for Glasgow for two seasons now and received high praise from Andy Robinson regarding his attitude in training.

Whilst I'd rather Brown was in his rightful position, this is an argument that the debutant should be given a shot in his natural role in order to give him the best chance possible, and that Brown's experience makes him the better candidate to adapt.

I have a hunch that Harley's tackle count on Saturday will be higher than that of Strokosch and Denton combined. Just a hunch.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

The Italian anthem and the Argentine anthem are both brilliant and by far the best in world rugby. GC is that the actual translation or the Italian equivalent of "Wales, Wales bloody great fishes are Wales"? I am not a cunning linguist and Google translate is baws so never really worked it out.

Why can't we have 'Know Your Enemy' by Rage Against The Machine for our anthem ?

England could replace God Save the Queen with The Prodigy's 'Smack My Bitch Up'

[lostinwales]

The Italian anthem and the Argentine anthem are both brilliant and by far the best in world rugby. GC is that the actual translation or the Italian equivalent of "Wales, Wales bloody great fishes are Wales"? I am not a cunning linguist and Google translate is baws so never really worked it out.

Why can't we have 'Know Your Enemy' by Rage Against The Machine for our anthem ?

England could replace God Save the Queen with The Prodigy's 'Smack My Bitch Up'

I occasionally giggle at the though of sitting in an old people's home in a few years listening to the Prodigy at the same time that the young people have rediscovered classical music...

[123456789]

It's been mentioned that the Killer Bs could return and with that could we see the return of Barclay to his previously imperious form? In my opinion none of them have been as good except Brown since he went to Sarries, especially Barclay, who, since 2010, has fallen from being nailed on for the 7 shirt for the Lions and being touted as a potential captain by some to fighting for a Glasgow place. Obviously since then player like Warburton, O'Brien, Tipuric, Rennie and Robshaw have come to the fore, however it would be great if all three could reach the same levels.
Whilst playing at their best which one of Rennie and Barclay is better?

[MacKnocked-on]

Maybe posted somewhere else that I've missed but according to STV news MacArthur is now confirmed on the bench in place of Hall. Congratulations to him.

[Pat_Mustard]

It's been mentioned that the Killer Bs could return and with that could we see the return of Barclay to his previously imperious form? In my opinion none of them have been as good except Brown since he went to Sarries, especially Barclay, who, since 2010, has fallen from being nailed on for the 7 shirt for the Lions and being touted as a potential captain by some to fighting for a Glasgow place. Obviously since then player like Warburton, O'Brien, Tipuric, Rennie and Robshaw have come to the fore, however it would be great if all three could reach the same levels.
Whilst playing at their best which one of Rennie and Barclay is better?

I'd say Brown Rennie Beattie is our best back row when all are fit, but with Harley, Barclay/Fusaro and Denton providing competition among others. But right now I'd take any openside that's available so very glad to see Barclay returning and unless Rennie also returns this weekend I'd hope Barclay starts against Ireland.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Saw Barclay and Ryan Wilson yesterday ootside Peckhams in the West End. JB's dog looked well !

[RDW]

Just realised we haven’t won a home game at Murrayfield since the world cup warm up games – in 2011.

I’ve wasted a lot of money following this rugby team.

[RDW]

No Rennie for Edinburgh still..

[Glas a du]

Allez Les Bleus!

[R!skysports]

Just realised we haven’t won a home game at Murrayfield since the world cup warm up games – in 2011.

I’ve wasted a lot of money following this rugby team.

Wasted or invested in the beer industry and large pants

[tigertattie]

John Barclay's dog has been called up into the training squad

Told you Johnson was mental!

[bsando]

Yeah Scotland really need to beat someone other than Itlay or a 2nd string ireland side at home. Last decent team we beat there was SA in 2010!! Before then a draw vs England and beating Australia in 2009. If we could beat Ireland or Wales that would be great.

I am just really hoping that every game this 6N shows improvement rather than previous years where it was great performance followed up by something totally dire!

[funnyExiledScot]

Just realised we haven’t won a home game at Murrayfield since the world cup warm up games – in 2011.

I’ve wasted a lot of money following this rugby team.

I can top that.

1. I have never seen Edinburgh win a match at Murrayfield, despite being a season ticket holder.

2. The last time I saw Scotland win a match at Murrayfield live was in 2007 against Wales (no tries were scored as Scotland won 21-9).

Given that until last spring I lived in London and had to pay for flights and accommodation to see Scotland play at home, I think I must have invested at least £20 for every point I've seen either Scotland or Edinburgh score!

My reinvestment in a season ticket for next year depends entirely upon the prompt sacking of Michael Bradley at the end of the season. By prompt I mean within 30 seconds of the final whistle in the last match.

[Solid8]

Just realised we haven’t won a home game at Murrayfield since the world cup warm up games – in 2011.

I’ve wasted a lot of money following this rugby team.

I can top that.

1. I have never seen Edinburgh win a match at Murrayfield, despite being a season ticket holder.

2. The last time I saw Scotland win a match at Murrayfield live was in 2007 against Wales (no tries were scored as Scotland won 21-9).

Given that until last spring I lived in London and had to pay for flights and accommodation to see Scotland play at home, I think I must have invested at least £20 for every point I've seen either Scotland or Edinburgh score!

My reinvestment in a season ticket for next year depends entirely upon the prompt sacking of Michael Bradley at the end of the season. By prompt I mean within 30 seconds of the final whistle in the last match.

I feel your pain, I live in London and hold Murrayfield debenchers. Possibly the worst "investment" of my life. Last season I went to see the Italy match and I actually spent less money going to Rome than I normally do getting to Edinburgh for a match.

[funnyExiledScot]

It's the Edinburgh hotels that used to get on my nerves. You paid equivalent prices to the Waldorf Astoria in New York just for a fag ash vomit stained hell hole half way to the Gyle.

Still - Edinburgh is undoubtedly the best rugby city on the circuit.

[George Carlin]

FES - the answer is obvious.

Come over to the Dark Side, Luke.

Scotstoun is lovely.

[Solid8]

FES, I don't know about that, Rome last year was pretty amazing. If we had actually played half decent rugby it would have been one of the best rugby weekends of my life. The Stadio Olympico is a fantastic venue, and all of the people were so welcoming.

[funnyExiledScot]

FES - the answer is obvious.

Come over to the Dark Side, Luke.

Scotstoun is lovely.

The thought has crossed my mind! I'm a Rangers fan as well so there could be efficiencies there!

Still, I shall persevere with my beloved Edinburgh. Next season cannot possibly be as bad as this season......

[funnyExiledScot]

FES, I don't know about that, Rome last year was pretty amazing. If we had actually played half decent rugby it would have been one of the best rugby weekends of my life. The Stadio Olympico is a fantastic venue, and all of the people were so welcoming.

I've never been to Rome for a rugby weekend (I was in Venice once on the weekend of a Scotland vs Italy game and not a single place was showing it!) but as a city I find it awkward.

I love all the architecture etc etc., but the Romans were hopeless at planning for future urban development, so getting around is a complete pain. They need a tram.....

[RDW]

They need a tram.....

If ever the emotion was called for that was the opportunity!

[R!skysports]

They need a tram.....

If ever the emotion was called for that was the opportunity!

Wouldn't that be a good option for Edinburgh - I am surprised it has never been thought of

[Solid8]

FES, I don't know about that, Rome last year was pretty amazing. If we had actually played half decent rugby it would have been one of the best rugby weekends of my life. The Stadio Olympico is a fantastic venue, and all of the people were so welcoming.

I've never been to Rome for a rugby weekend (I was in Venice once on the weekend of a Scotland vs Italy game and not a single place was showing it!) but as a city I find it awkward.

I love all the architecture etc etc., but the Romans were hopeless at planning for future urban development, so getting around is a complete pain. They need a tram.....

They have a tram, its just planned even worse than the ones in Edinburgh! Mind you, you can get it out to the near the stadium from within walking distance of the main tourist areas. Give it a try next year, I doubt you'll be disappointed (in the experience at least, the rugby will probably be a different matter) Italian food and wine, international rugby, grappa, limoncello and anisette it is a great if slightly messy weekend.

[R!skysports]

On consideration of the two squads and recent performances

Stuart Hogg Vs Andrea Masi - Hogg
Sean Maitland vs Giovanbattista Venditti – Even (Maitland still untested)
Sean Lamont vs Tommaso Benvenuti - Benvenuti
Matt Scott vs Gonzalo Canale - Even
Tim Visser vs Luke McLean – McLean (Visser defense and did not do much with ball)
Ruaridh Jackson vs Luciano Orquera - Orquera
Greig Laidlaw vs Tobias Botes - Botes
Ryan Grant vs Andrea Lo Cicero - Grant
Ross Ford vs Leonardo Ghiraldini - Ford
Euan Murray vs Martin Castrogiovanni - Castrogiovanni
Richie Gray vs Quintin Geldenhuys – Even (Gray needs to pick it up a bit)
Jim Hamilton vs Francesco Minto - Minto
Rob Harley vs Alessandro Zanni – Zanni
Kelly Brown vss Simone Favaro - Brown
Johnnie Beattie vs Sergio Parisse - Parisse (just)

So in reality (based on my thoughts) it is
Scotland- 4
Italy – 8
Even – 3

So on recent performances I am not so sure we should be expecting to win this easily – although I am sure people will disagree with my picks above

[Solid8]

My thoughts are

Stuart Hogg Vs Andrea Masi - Hogg
Sean Maitland vs Giovanbattista Venditti – Maitland, he was involved in our best play last week, is clearly a quality player and everything he says to the press indicates that he is very level headed and posses exactly the right attitude to succeed at this level
Sean Lamont vs Tommaso Benvenuti - Benvenuti
Matt Scott vs Gonzalo Canale - Scott
Tim Visser vs Luke McLean – Even
Ruaridh Jackson vs Luciano Orquera - Orquera
Greig Laidlaw vs Tobias Botes - Botes
Ryan Grant vs Andrea Lo Cicero - Grant
Ross Ford vs Leonardo Ghiraldini - Ford
Euan Murray vs Martin Castrogiovanni - Castrogiovanni
Richie Gray vs Quintin Geldenhuys – Even (Gray needs to pick it up a bit)
Jim Hamilton vs Francesco Minto - Minto
Rob Harley vs Alessandro Zanni – Zanni
Kelly Brown vss Simone Favaro - Brown
Johnnie Beattie vs Sergio Parisse - Parisse (just)

So
Scotland 6
Even 2
Italy 7

I think that this match will come down to attitude. Our pack need to take the field with the David Sole grimace.

[funnyExiledScot]

Why are people picking Ford over Ghiraldini "based on recent performances"? Otherwise pretty much in agreement. Italy certainly ahead on the player by player analysis, but I think that's down to form rather than ability. Gray for example is clearly a more talented player than Geldenhuys.

I still can't believe Italy pick Botes over Gori. That's a Robinson-esque piece of selection, it really is.

[GLove39]

I think that this match will come down to attitude. Our pack need to take the field with the David Sole grimace.

Just be sure to tell lumbering Jim to stop doing the David Sole style slow march once the whistles goes!

[R!skysports]

FES - I may have just had enough of writting Italy :-)

[GLove39]

So game day has arrived. Gota text from a mate saying he's looking forward to the trip to Murrayfield more than normal, think he can sense the win. Let's be having you!

[RDW]

I'm the opposite glove - got a feeling of dejection and don't have the buzz I usually have. Probably the fact that it is 18 months since I last saw Scotland win live!

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

There are a few reputations to be rescued today - Murray, Hamilton and Denton in particular. Lets hope they get their fecking game faces on today as opposed to last week's weak, lazy efforts.

[RDW]

And 2 years since we last won in the 6n...

[Solid8]

I've got a sinking feeling today, we can winif the pack plays as a commited unit but I'm worried it won't happen.

[IanBru]

Just getting on the train now.

Not sure how I feel - I'm actually confident that we should win this one, but far too often with Italy games we have been drawn into an arm wrestle that we were never going to win. Combine that with that old 'wooden spoon decider' feeling, and I can see the players being rather more anxious than for other games.

This game is where we will actually where scotland are, and I suppose I'm worried that we'll turn out to be just as crappy as we have long suspected! Nonetheless, if we can win well today, there's no reason why we cannot kick on and start challenging Ireland and wales.

In case you ask, I have been at the crystal meth again.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Jeez Ian,

early start mate - could be a long day.

[NeilyBroon]

On a brighter note our under-20s won fairly convincingly!

The sooner these guys get to professional level the better!

My prediction today, Scotland 20-15 Italy

But I hope for more. No team can consecutively play this badly, it's about time we had a win!

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Right, although I have eye wateringly expensive tickets for the Ireland game, I am putting this team on super secret final warning (apologies to Animal House) and will not darken Murrayfield again (apart from our annual humping of the MFLs !) unless this lot perform today. Shirt on, teeth brushed, neurofen in pocket. Off we go.

C'mon Scotland for once give us a performance we can be proud of and bloody well win

[jimbopip]

Ian, 21st, RDW... although being held captive in sunny Essex by MrsPip I am with you in spirit. Let's hope that it's a raucous rammy of an afternoon rather than the Morningside reading room. I think today's game will be buttock clenchingly tight in terms of tension but I feel the pasta chomping gigolos will look to run the ball and look for wide runners with lots of back row support. In fact pretty similar to how both they and England played last week! IF we can choose the right game plan we have lots of pace in the backs and can outscore them, as Sean Maitland says it is all about LQB, in which case the sooner MacArthur and Pyrgos come on the better. I have a feeling that it will be a high scoring match, the PC Gigolos have nothing to lose and will go for it and we can counter punch them to death 44-25 Scotland. p.s. Beattievs Parrisi never the Thrilla in Manilla it's the Malky in Murrayfield.

[justified sinner]

Right, off to Murrayfield, well a pub en route. Looking forward to this one.

Scotland by 12.

[bsando]

For all fellow Scotland fans who are going to the match today, hope its a good one and you enjoy yourselves with many pints! and many glass pipes IanBru. I'll be up in 2 weeks for Ireland match, but I may well be in Schizoids boat if today pans out as badly as I think it may.

But typically, I am feeling confident we'll do well today. This team have it in them to put points on the board and snatch the big W's!! LQB indeed Jimbopip! Maitland will be listening to his pre match tunes right now, looking forward to seeing what the back three can do today!

Come on Scotland!!!

[jimbopip]

bsando, I'm with you in heart! I'm marking exam scripts while marking time till kick off and trying to figure out if I've earned enough buckshee to convince MrsPip that a trip to Murrayfield is excusable. We can win this one: I just have hunch it's going to be a cracker.

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