Scotland vs Italy - time to get serious - build up thread

[R!skysports]

First topic message reminder :

Well we have had our first kick in the teeth for 2013, with a terrible performance against a strong England. Can we turn it around in time for Italy. Only two changes, both forced by injury. If this a good thing, or a sign of managers without a clue

Team for Saturday

Scotland team to play Italy:
Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors);
Sean Maitland (Glasgow Warriors),
Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors),
Matt Scott (Edinburgh),
Tim Visser (Edinburgh);
Ruaridh Jackson (Glasgow Warriors),
Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh);
Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors),
Ross Ford (Edinburgh),
Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors),
Richie Gray (Sale Sharks),
Jim Hamilton (Gloucester),
Rob Harley (Glasgow Warriors),
Kelly Brown (Saracens),
Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier).

Replacements: Dougie Hall (Glasgow Warriors)/Pat MacArthur (Glasgow Warriors), Moray Low (Glasgow Warriors), Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby), Alastair Kellock (Glasgow Warriors), David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby), Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors), Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors), Max Evans (Castres).


Who should be on last chance saloon - Hamilton, Ford, Jackson and Lamont.


Concerned - Brown playing at 7 still


So how do you expect this to go. If italy play like they did at the weekend, we will lose. It is in our hands to get ourselves our of this mess, but do we have the passion, defensive ability or even the still to do so?


Current Italy Squad

15-Andrea Masi,
14-Giovanbattista Venditti,
13-Tommaso Benvenuti,
12-Gonzalo Canale,
11-Luke McLean,
10-Luciano Orquera,
9-Tobias Botes;
1-Andrea Lo Cicero,
2-Leonardo Ghiraldini,
3-Martin Castrogiovanni,
4-Quintin Geldenhuys,
5-Francesco Minto,
6-Alessandro Zanni,
7-Simone Favaro,
8-Sergio Parisse (capt)

Replacements: 16-Davide Giazzon, 17-Alberto De Marchi, 18-Lorenzo Cittadini, 19-Antonio Pavanello, 20-Paul Derbyshire, 21-Kris Burton, 22-Gonzalo Garcia

[Barney McGrew did it]

He's a contender because of his performances over two seasons, not because of one interception, obviously.

It's too early to make any Lions judgements. This is week two. He's a contender, and so far his performances have put him in a good place. Still a few rounds to go, his head to heads with Kearney and Halfpenny will be interesting.

Fair enough. I keep having nightmares that Gats will do the near impossible and pick a Lions side, full of hyped unproven players and favourites, that won't whitewash the Aussies.

How about T Youngs from England (Wade on the bench), Tipuric from Wales, McVisser from Scotland, Zebo from Ireland. Add Warburton, POC, Roberts and Easter (maybe Armitage on the bench) and there you have it – we’ll snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

[Taffineastbourne]

I'm sorry but the fact that Halfpenny was named MoM today has no bearing whatsoever, both teams were playing pedestrian rugby designed not to lose, it was pretty dire.

Whilst Italy looked world beaters!

[funnyExiledScot]

Hogg played well last season as well - it's more than a couple of good internationals.

Can't we just agree that Halfpenny has been better for longer, but that both are red hot at the moment and stand a good chance of touring?

The other interesting thing I thought today was the use of Maitland as a second playmaker for the Scott try, and would like to see more of that. He's a very good footballer, and think we can use him even more than we do already.

[ChequeredJersey]

Gatland's going to confuse the Aussies by picking an entire 15 of players who aren't playing for their country

Byrne
Murphy
Delon Armitage
Wilkinson
Wade
Hodgson
Peel
Easter (c.)
Steffon Armitage
Hogg
Hines
Shaw
Stevens
Mears
Sheridan

Just watch

[Gibson]

First of all - !

Read through some of the posts during the game and a lot of people saying Scotland had luck with the bounce of the ball sometimes and were lucky not to get an earlier yellow - all I can say to that is I really don't give a crap! For so long now we've been regularly unlucky and on the wrong side of refs so it's about time we get some luck.

Positives

We won the contact area, so we own the game - simples

The forwards massively fronted up after last week

We scored 4 tries!!!

Matt Scott had a standout game - nailed on the 12 shirt and becoming a key player for Scotland now

Our backs scored a try from first phase - when did we last do that??

Thank God Maitland chose Scotland

What a back 3 we now have - Visser still lacked in other areas but took his try very well

Laidlaw's goal kicking was superb - some tricky kicks. Thought he had a good all-round game too

Stuart Hogg - no more needs to be said!

Brown and Harley had a good game - think Harley made a big difference


Negatives

Italy got far too much quick ball - other teams will crucify us if we allow them to do that

Still not overly convinced by Beattie - was hard to see how much dirty work he was doing but, other than that one run last week, he's not been the ball carrying menace we were needing from him

That's about it!

Go lad! Tell it like it is man. Great to get the win, specially when people doubted ye.

Believe.

And phhook de begrudgers.

[Gibson]

Just back from Murrayfield - what a bloody performance!!

There were enough glimmers last week that we knew if Scotland did the basics right, more attractive rugby would be the result, and we saw it today. The forwards were far more accurate at the breakdown, played the ref when needed, and we had good line-speed.

Harley was brilliant - there are some players who don't look out of their depth, no matter what level of rugby you present them with (Hogg, North and Farrell are others), and the Ginger Tackle Monster did exactly what he was asked to. He wasn't my man of the match, but his stats were good, and will only get better.

In the backs, there was no standout performer, but only because they were consistently excellent. Laidlaw was solid, even when the scrum creaked late on. Jackson kicked will, for the most part, and showed what can happen when a Scottish stand off actually draws his man before passing. It helps when you Visser outside you, and Tim showed that he is more than just a pair of legs (it feels as wrong to write that as it probably sounds...) - good awareness and strength to turn his defender and stretch for the try.

Matt Scott can feel hard done by to be denied the MOTM award - within a hair's breadth of a hat-trick (hats off to Botes for his excellent covering tackle, and a set-square to Jaco Peyper to teach him what a forward pass is), but he showed that with a talented 12, the pieces are finally coming together for a complete Scotland side that can challenge for things. Morrison? Henderson? Dewey?? We have Matt Scott now.

Maitland is an enabler. He makes things happen. Great offload for Scott's try, even better one for Scott's second. It was so good, the ref assumed it must have been forward, when it wasn't. Could have bagged a try at the very end if that ball had bounced better, but them's the breaks.

Finally, Mr Hogg of Hawick. I can't think of anything else to say, except that he is the most talented Scottish player in a generation, and the best fullback in the Northern Hemisphere on current form. If he doesn't tour, Gatland needs to be committed to an institution far away from people.

We need to hold on to ourselves though. Italy simply weren't as good as last week, and we fed off their mistakes to a large extent. I'm not one to say that Italy are a one- or two-man team, but when Parisse and Orquera were misfiring you could see the effect it had on the Italian team as a whole.

Just like the game against Australia in 2009 and Ireland in 2010, we have to push on from here. Otherwise, this result means nothing more than keeping us off the bottom of the table.

Have to say, the honesty, the severe lack of hubris, the class, the continual introspection and the sheer inner-joy, being displayed by Scottish fans on here tonight, is exemplary.

See ye by the way?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbO2_077ixs
Believe.

[IanBru]

Have to say, the honesty, the severe lack of hubris, the class, the continual introspection and sheer the inner-joy, being displayed by Scottish fans on here tonight, is exemplary.

See ye by the way?

Believe.

And you, my good man, you are a true gent.

Best of luck with your match tomorrow - why on Earth would the Pro12 schedule Glasgow's game against Zebre to coincide with Ireland v England? It shames me, but my beloved Warriors are getting SkyPlussed in favour of the Lansdowne Road grand slam decider!

By the way, anyone who listens to Sam Cooke has truly impeccable taste!

[Gibson]

Bru, mo chara, tomorrow later today is a big day pal.

We need this, like ye needed that today. Its a great English side on the up. We are seriously up against it. But, its in Our Home Town.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYYbK2sDaJ4

They are going down dude.

See ye lot in Murrayfield by de way.

Believe.

[Taylorman]

On form, it's got to be Halfpenny. Hogg could be a bolter though

Hoggs form in the two matches to date has been miles ahead of all the 15's in this tournament.

How....is that not obvious?

[George Carlin]

Taylorman - what have I told you before about being measured, objective and magnanimous on these boards? Absolutely no place for it, man.

I am going to stab wildly in the dark and suggest that the cycloptic contingent here see what they want to see about players who do not form part of their national team.

For me, the glass is half full and I think that either 1/2p or Hogg would make cracking counter attacking choices. I thought that Rob Kearney was a certainty for the 15 shirt but he's got a lot of work to do before now and the end of this tournament if he wants it.

[bsando]

I'll be watching Kearney today to see how he gets on. Half a penny has been a top performer for Wales and I think the first half against Ireland is the first time I've seen him look average in a long time. He got out run and charged down by Ireland but his 2nd half performance was great. He is very consistent.

Hogg was out for a while but since coming back his performances have kept getting stronger and stronger and I am pretty sure he is faster than half penny and Kearney, I have never seen him get out run by anyone. Next two games are big ones for him though, if his current form continues I think he'll be in with a shot. But he has definitely been fullback of tournament so far.

[jimbopip]

Bru, mo chara, tomorrow later today is a big day pal.

We need this, like ye needed that today. Its a great English side on the up. We are seriously up against it. But, its in Our Home Town.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYYbK2sDaJ4

They are going down dude.

See ye lot in Murrayfield by de way.

Believe.
Gibson, excellent musical taste, thankyo., Can your boys turn over the PublicSchool Bullies? I sincerely hope so. I think back rows will be crucial- what Wilfred Owen might call "titanic struggles".
Also I don't think Italy were nearly as poor as people here have suggested: there were numerous occasions when they made half breaks which on other days could have led to tries. The two three pointers early on settled us and put them under pressure allowing us to stick with our counterpunching game. Had they kicked six points first and we then had to chase them it could have been very different. Also, all XV starters yesterday had good games and will probably start against your boys after which the Lions debates should have a little more substance to them.

[George Carlin]

So difficult to judge players in isolation from the rest of the team.

1/2p has stood out in what has been a surprisingly pedestrian Wales backline by their standards. Whether he would have stood out even more if he'd been playing for England (for example) is an interesting question. The person I feel most for is Lee 'Tom Daly' Byrne, who is certainly the form Welsh fullback at the moment and has been playing consistently well in France all season.

[George Carlin]

Just back from Murrayfield - what a bloody performance!!

There were enough glimmers last week that we knew if Scotland did the basics right, more attractive rugby would be the result, and we saw it today. The forwards were far more accurate at the breakdown, played the ref when needed, and we had good line-speed.

Harley was brilliant - there are some players who don't look out of their depth, no matter what level of rugby you present them with (Hogg, North and Farrell are others), and the Ginger Tackle Monster did exactly what he was asked to. He wasn't my man of the match, but his stats were good, and will only get better.

In the backs, there was no standout performer, but only because they were consistently excellent. Laidlaw was solid, even when the scrum creaked late on. Jackson kicked will, for the most part, and showed what can happen when a Scottish stand off actually draws his man before passing. It helps when you Visser outside you, and Tim showed that he is more than just a pair of legs (it feels as wrong to write that as it probably sounds...) - good awareness and strength to turn his defender and stretch for the try.

Matt Scott can feel hard done by to be denied the MOTM award - within a hair's breadth of a hat-trick (hats off to Botes for his excellent covering tackle, and a set-square to Jaco Peyper to teach him what a forward pass is), but he showed that with a talented 12, the pieces are finally coming together for a complete Scotland side that can challenge for things. Morrison? Henderson? Dewey?? We have Matt Scott now.

Maitland is an enabler. He makes things happen. Great offload for Scott's try, even better one for Scott's second. It was so good, the ref assumed it must have been forward, when it wasn't. Could have bagged a try at the very end if that ball had bounced better, but them's the breaks.

Finally, Mr Hogg of Hawick. I can't think of anything else to say, except that he is the most talented Scottish player in a generation, and the best fullback in the Northern Hemisphere on current form. If he doesn't tour, Gatland needs to be committed to an institution far away from people.

We need to hold on to ourselves though. Italy simply weren't as good as last week, and we fed off their mistakes to a large extent. I'm not one to say that Italy are a one- or two-man team, but when Parisse and Orquera were misfiring you could see the effect it had on the Italian team as a whole.

Just like the game against Australia in 2009 and Ireland in 2010, we have to push on from here. Otherwise, this result means nothing more than keeping us off the bottom of the table.

Have to say, the honesty, the severe lack of hubris, the class, the continual introspection and the sheer inner-joy, being displayed by Scottish fans on here tonight, is exemplary.

See ye by the way?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbO2_077ixs
Believe.

Go n-éirí an t-ádh leat, Gib my boy.

We're relying on your boy Sean to stand on Danny Care's face. Don't let us down.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Taffineastbourne, if you're a Halfpenny fan, that's cool. I am too. He has been a consistently good (and often excellent) performer for Wales, and I think he should definitely tour.

The question I would pose (and I suspect our answer would differ, but again I don't have a problem with that!) is whether you think that Halfpenny is playing better than Hogg at the moment. If you side with Halfpenny, again, that's you're right. However, I don't think that it is particularly outrageous to argue that Hogg is playing better than Halfpenny.

The reason I queried your claim of Halfpenny's achievements over the last few years (achievements I would happily acknowledge and celebrate) is that they are entirely irrelevant to this discussion. If we're debating who is playing better in the last few games (which is what we're doing), anything that happened before that doesn't matter.

On the question of Hogg/Halfpenny/Foden/Kearney/JPR/Hastings/Big Bird, I agree that the competition is very very close. Any one of them could put in a blinder of a performance and totally reshuffle the assessment.

You claim that Hogg is the best Full Back in the NH which I find laughable.Halfpenny was MoM today against France and has played at a similar level for 2/3 years.
Hogg has played a couple of good Internationals.Who do you seriously think has the better credentials?
Using your logic Coombs who has had two good games for Wales as a stand in is the best second row in theNH!
I would prefer Halfpenny and Kearney ahead of Hogg as they have maintained careers at the top level over a period of time.

Gok Wan could have won MoM in Paris last night FFS

[Solid8]

I'm sorry but the fact that Halfpenny was named MoM today has no bearing whatsoever, both teams were playing pedestrian rugby designed not to lose, it was pretty dire.

Whilst Italy looked world beaters!

No but then at the moment we don't look like world beaters, Wales and France certainly don't look like world beaters either. I'm struggling to see the point of your post other than to try and WUM.

[reallybored]

Before the 6 Nations started both Kearney and Halfpenny were definitely touring, that hasn't changed, and there was probably one more full-back spot available.

Right now that belongs to 20 year old Stuart Hogg. His pace and confidence (test match animal?) make him a genuine game changer, has a good kicking game and solid in defence as well. Obviously there's 3 games to go and he'll need to maintain his form but if he can he'll tour, then all bets are off for the test team.

Halfpenny's goal-kicking has kept Wales in matches for the last couple of seasons but if he scored two length of the field tries we'd never hear the end of it.

allyt2k your comment is one of the dumbest things I've ever read, take yourself outside and plant one square on your own face.

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