Ireland 10 vs Scotland

First topic message reminder :

Surely we can't persist with ROG if Sexton doesn't make it.

More than anything it isn't fair on ROG himself... he has had it and TBH should have (internationally) retired after WC 2011 as planned. His place kicking is his only remaining string to his originally short bow.

One or two alternatives need to get time in the side as Jonny isn't invincible, and i would say better late than never.

Madigan has been going well for Leinster, is a prodigious attacking talent with an excellent running and passing game with his kicking catching up. His percentage from the tee is fairly good this season ~80%

Keatley has IMO outperformed ROG at Munster this season, has been is good form from the tee... but does not seem to be high on Deccies list of candidates and seems unlikely to make 1st choice

Jackson seems to be above the two Ians in Deccies considerations, and whilst on his day possesses a very good all round game has been lacking consistency kicking from hand and tee.

Personally I would pick Madigan with Jackson on the Bench - nothing ventured...

Notch wrote: The thing is, Kidney needs world class players to go out and do what they do. Because we're short on tactical nous other than that.

A lot of our tactics when things go wrong is give it to one player and hope he does something to get us back on the front foot. Thats it. And how can we ever forget the RWC quarter-final... ahh sure Ferris and O'Brien will run over them. Thats all we really need in the way of a gameplan.

On the subject of that game, Lydiate was the star. Lydiate is a perfect example of a player who is similar in talent and current ability to Henry and O'Mahony. He was one of the stars of last years Six Nations because his coach found a tactical niche for him into which he fitted perfectly. Put Lydiate in our team and he'd look fairly average.

Why do you think that the players who can change the course of the match for Leinster and Ulster and formerly Munster cannot do it at international level? Are they really that weak willed that they crumble under pressure? Is it the pressure of international rugby? Why can players like Farrell as a perfect example of someone who has previously utterly crumbled at club level yet when the pressure comes on at international level excel? Is it simply a case of a lack of tactical guidance from the coaching staff where they hardly have a viable plan A let alone plan B? I think we can all have our theories but the evidence that our players who look assured, confident and able to change a match at the peak of provincial rugby simply cannot do it at international level is before us. Sexton is the best example. How can someone who so often takes the game by the scruff of the neck in blue has never once do it for Ireland (if anyone has a suggestion of his doing it for Ireland I'm all ears).

The comparison with Lydiate is excellent Notch. He is a perfectly serviceable player. On a basic talent level for me he wouldn't make an Irish squad. Yet put him in with a tactical gameplan and he is excellent at his job. Kidney seems to want three jacks of all trade in our backrow, but they end up being masters of none. I would rather have three average internationals doing their jobs and providing a platform than three world class players (Ferris, SOB, Heaslip) looking clueless and inept.

I hope Kidney starts ROG, so long as he is as shockingly poor as he was against England. I don't think I've ever seen him play badly before, let alone being completely inept in all areas of his game.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote: All Kidney has tried to do is replace Ferris with POM. It's laughable. POM isn't near the class of Ferris. That's not a knock against him, but if the same tactics with a far better player failed time and time again why stick with it with an inferior player? On form the Irish backrow should be POM/SOB/Henry. Allow those players to excel at what they are good at to allow the backrow unit as a whole to excel.

Ferris isn't much use when he is always injured.* Kidney is obviously not planning on having him around much by developing POM at 6 (Alan Quinlan type 6 rather than a Ferris type 6) and leaving SOB at 7.

*Just checked Ferris's contract details - he is on an Ulster contract at the moment and its up at the end of this season. POM has just got a central contract. Henry's competition for a starting spot is O'Brien (at 7). Note he was brought on for SOB against England, not POM.

Ferris Signs New Ulster Deal
13 September 2010, 12:40 pm
By Editor
http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/19460.php

Kidney never learns. Wales beat us convincingly time and time again by exploiting us at the breakdown, slowing the ball down and rushing the defence out. England did exactly the same on Sunday. England put in a disciplined shift and defended well, but lets be honest, did they really have to work that hard to beat us? Thats the disappointing thing. Personally I would rather go back to the amateur era of going out and giving it a lash and losing than the passive, insipid performances under Kidney.

Ha, Ha. We have just beaten Wales without the traditional openside.

England played relatively error free rugby. Ireland didn't.

I have to laugh - were you not moaning earlier on about POM traditional type aggressive game

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

Notch wrote: The thing is, Kidney needs world class players to go out and do what they do. Because we're short on tactical nous other than that.

A lot of our tactics when things go wrong is give it to one player and hope he does something to get us back on the front foot. Thats it. And how can we ever forget the RWC quarter-final... ahh sure Ferris and O'Brien will run over them. Thats all we really need in the way of a gameplan.

On the subject of that game, Lydiate was the star. Lydiate is a perfect example of a player who is similar in talent and current ability to Henry and O'Mahony. He was one of the stars of last years Six Nations because his coach found a tactical niche for him into which he fitted perfectly. Put Lydiate in our team and he'd look fairly average.

Why do you think that the players who can change the course of the match for Leinster and Ulster and formerly Munster cannot do it at international level? Are they really that weak willed that they crumble under pressure? Is it the pressure of international rugby? Why can players like Farrell as a perfect example of someone who has previously utterly crumbled at club level yet when the pressure comes on at international level excel? Is it simply a case of a lack of tactical guidance from the coaching staff where they hardly have a viable plan A let alone plan B? I think we can all have our theories but the evidence that our players who look assured, confident and able to change a match at the peak of provincial rugby simply cannot do it at international level is before us. Sexton is the best example. How can someone who so often takes the game by the scruff of the neck in blue has never once do it for Ireland (if anyone has a suggestion of his doing it for Ireland I'm all ears).

The comparison with Lydiate is excellent Notch. He is a perfectly serviceable player. On a basic talent level for me he wouldn't make an Irish squad. Yet put him in with a tactical gameplan and he is excellent at his job. Kidney seems to want three jacks of all trade in our backrow, but they end up being masters of none. I would rather have three average internationals doing their jobs and providing a platform than three world class players (Ferris, SOB, Heaslip) looking clueless and inept.

The reason is that I believe that for Ulster Henry is part of a tactical framework that maximises his talents and masks his weakness, whilst Lydiate and Farrell have that advantage at test level.

I think we are broadly in agreement here. In Ireland, the rugby big yins put the onus on the player to perform and if he doesn't get the next man. Never question the coach! For some reason, the media here focus their scrutiny entirely on players. Everything is ther players responsibility. Wales and England are always going to achieve more than us whilst they can get the best out of their players and we cannot. No-one is writing super-critical articles on blogs or fan sites or in newspapers about how Farrell has no running threat or Lydiate doesn't carry much. Because it ain't there job. We don't really do that. Once a player steps up, he has to change his game to suit the role. Thats how we got Paddy Wallace the crash ball centre, or Paul O'Connell the ball carrying lock, or Andrew Trimble the wing-hanging poacher.

It's important to note we have disadvantages- the lack of a true ball carrying 6 or 8 or any sizable ball carriers in the backline hurts us. We definitely miss Ferris. We don't have the strength in depth of the top 5 of the World Rankings, we never have. But we definitely have more strength in depth than when we were most consistent as a side, prior to the 2007 RWC. But even if we did have those class act players they'd just be trying to do it all themselves. The players have real heart and passion and effort. Heart alone got us back to 6-6. But tactics (for England) or their lack (for us) meant we never, ever threatened the tryline.

Notch wrote:It's important to note we have disadvantages- the lack of a true ball carrying 6 or 8 or any sizable ball carriers in the backline hurts us. We definitely miss Ferris. We don't have the strength in depth of the top 5 of the World Rankings, we never have. But we definitely have more strength in depth than when we were most consistent as a side, prior to the 2007 RWC. But even if we did have those class act players they'd just be trying to do it all themselves. The players have real heart and passion and effort. Heart alone got us back to 6-6. But tactics (for England) or their lack (for us) meant we never, ever threatened the tryline.

I think this is the key to the future of Irish rugby in a hopefully post-Kidney era with a new coaching setup. I don't agree that we don't have ball carrying 6s and 8s. SOB can be very effective when he engage his brain, and whatever the problem with Heaslip he has shown he is a good ball carrier. I have no idea why he is rarely doing it. Though he was ineffective against England, a charge that can be levelled at everyone in green except perhaps Earls, POM carried very well against Wales. Then there's Ferris, when he's fit. It's hard to have him in the equation when he is injured so often. If we don't have the ball carriers in the backs then why do we set out to play like we have them? Irish rugby players remind me of Australia- not the biggest, but good footballers. If we can't outmuscle teams then we need to out think them. He might not be the biggest but Fitzgerald has a footballing brain. Bowe isn't the quickest but runs extremely intelligent lines. Luke Marhsall is a really good footballer and now has the bulk and the experience. Kidney just can't think along these lines. We badly need someone to head a coaching staff that can actually use the resources we have to their best abilities.

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:
WoC is run by an Ulster & Leinster supporters and thats the market they appeal to. Their key selling point is bashing Munster and their players.

Look thats unfair man. They are clearly going for the more cerebral Irish rugby fan, the ones who like to think critically and debate matters of Irish Rugby in much greater depth than the print media allows. The ones who value originality and independence of thought, reason over rhetoric and the greater good over petty selection politics. Their key demographic is intelligent, urbane, educated and handsome.

Sorry, I take it back. They are DEFINITELY targeting Leinster and Ulster fans

I don't know what they are going to do when Radge retires.

One of the most entertaining aspects of the blog is the use of the royal 'we'.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

Notch wrote:It's important to note we have disadvantages- the lack of a true ball carrying 6 or 8 or any sizable ball carriers in the backline hurts us. We definitely miss Ferris. We don't have the strength in depth of the top 5 of the World Rankings, we never have. But we definitely have more strength in depth than when we were most consistent as a side, prior to the 2007 RWC. But even if we did have those class act players they'd just be trying to do it all themselves. The players have real heart and passion and effort. Heart alone got us back to 6-6. But tactics (for England) or their lack (for us) meant we never, ever threatened the tryline.

I think this is the key to the future of Irish rugby in a hopefully post-Kidney era with a new coaching setup. I don't agree that we don't have ball carrying 6s and 8s. SOB can be very effective when he engage his brain, and whatever the problem with Heaslip he has shown he is a good ball carrier. I have no idea why he is rarely doing it. Though he was ineffective against England, a charge that can be levelled at everyone in green except perhaps Earls, POM carried very well against Wales. Then there's Ferris, when he's fit. It's hard to have him in the equation when he is injured so often. If we don't have the ball carriers in the backs then why do we set out to play like we have them? Irish rugby players remind me of Australia- not the biggest, but good footballers. If we can't outmuscle teams then we need to out think them. He might not be the biggest but Fitzgerald has a footballing brain. Bowe isn't the quickest but runs extremely intelligent lines. Luke Marhsall is a really good footballer and now has the bulk and the experience. Kidney just can't think along these lines. We badly need someone to head a coaching staff that can actually use the resources we have to their best abilities.

Hookey, CJ Stander should be Ireland qualified for the next world cup (6 or 8). Now he is some ball carrier (and 3 tries in his 3 starts for Munster isn't bad either).

Sin é wrote: Hookey, CJ Stander should be Ireland qualified for the next world cup (6 or 8). Now he is some ball carrier (and 3 tries in his 3 starts for Munster isn't bad either).

I really hate the thought of project players but no point on standing on principle when everyone else does it. I like the look of Stander, he looks like a serious operator. Munster will have some competition for backrowers over the coming seasons when they mature. I really like O'Donnell- he was someone who should have felt hard done by to now be in the Six Nations squad. I like the look of Sean Dougall a lot as well.

Come the end of next season we will also have Jared O'Payne up for selection if he stays with Ulster.

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:
WoC is run by an Ulster & Leinster supporters and thats the market they appeal to. Their key selling point is bashing Munster and their players.

Look thats unfair man. They are clearly going for the more cerebral Irish rugby fan, the ones who like to think critically and debate matters of Irish Rugby in much greater depth than the print media allows. The ones who value originality and independence of thought, reason over rhetoric and the greater good over petty selection politics. Their key demographic is intelligent, urbane, educated and handsome.

Sorry, I take it back. They are DEFINITELY targeting Leinster and Ulster fans

I don't know what they are going to do when Radge retires.

One of the most entertaining aspects of the blog is the use of the royal 'we'.

Sin, on the subject of his RADGEness, you'll note I didn't cite creativity and lateral thinking. No, it takes a great deal of both to write about Irish Rugby and avoid admitting the Tomato-Faced Emperor has no clothes- the mainstream medjaa have them beat there

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:
WoC is run by an Ulster & Leinster supporters and thats the market they appeal to. Their key selling point is bashing Munster and their players.

Look thats unfair man. They are clearly going for the more cerebral Irish rugby fan, the ones who like to think critically and debate matters of Irish Rugby in much greater depth than the print media allows. The ones who value originality and independence of thought, reason over rhetoric and the greater good over petty selection politics. Their key demographic is intelligent, urbane, educated and handsome.

Sorry, I take it back. They are DEFINITELY targeting Leinster and Ulster fans

I don't know what they are going to do when Radge retires.
One of the most entertaining aspects of the blog is the use of the royal 'we'.

Pretty sure they mentioned in a recent post that they'll be writing a glowing review of his career.

Sin é wrote:
Hookey, CJ Stander should be Ireland qualified for the next world cup (6 or 8). Now he is some ball carrier (and 3 tries in his 3 starts for Munster isn't bad either).

CJ stander looks some player. Has he expressed and interest in playing for Ireland? To be honest the weak link in Irish rugby is the Irish. The more overseas players and coaches we can get in the national side the better .

Stander, Strauss and Payne will save Irish rugby .

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

Notch wrote:It's important to note we have disadvantages- the lack of a true ball carrying 6 or 8 or any sizable ball carriers in the backline hurts us. We definitely miss Ferris. We don't have the strength in depth of the top 5 of the World Rankings, we never have. But we definitely have more strength in depth than when we were most consistent as a side, prior to the 2007 RWC. But even if we did have those class act players they'd just be trying to do it all themselves. The players have real heart and passion and effort. Heart alone got us back to 6-6. But tactics (for England) or their lack (for us) meant we never, ever threatened the tryline.

I think this is the key to the future of Irish rugby in a hopefully post-Kidney era with a new coaching setup. I don't agree that we don't have ball carrying 6s and 8s. SOB can be very effective when he engage his brain, and whatever the problem with Heaslip he has shown he is a good ball carrier. I have no idea why he is rarely doing it. Though he was ineffective against England, a charge that can be levelled at everyone in green except perhaps Earls, POM carried very well against Wales. Then there's Ferris, when he's fit. It's hard to have him in the equation when he is injured so often. If we don't have the ball carriers in the backs then why do we set out to play like we have them? Irish rugby players remind me of Australia- not the biggest, but good footballers. If we can't outmuscle teams then we need to out think them. He might not be the biggest but Fitzgerald has a footballing brain. Bowe isn't the quickest but runs extremely intelligent lines. Luke Marhsall is a really good footballer and now has the bulk and the experience. Kidney just can't think along these lines. We badly need someone to head a coaching staff that can actually use the resources we have to their best abilities.

Just on the point of Jamies lack of effective ball carrying in recent times. It would be fair to say that he is a much more rounded player than a few seasons ago. Decent line out operator, excellent at ruck time, great support runner. But what really caught the eye in his early career were the barnstorming runs off the back of the scrum and the power running when used in midfield (try v France).
I think he has lost some of that dynamic power that he had. Looking at him now he is extremely lean and not the barrel chested slightly pudgy old school looking no 8 that he started out as. I think this conditioning has probably greatly increased his endurance and allows him get around the park more but there is no doubt that his ball carrying has suffered for some reason and I think a prescription of pies might bring him back to his best.

Ian Madigan to start v Scotland with Paddy Jackson on the bench if it's not going well.

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Hookey, CJ Stander should be Ireland qualified for the next world cup (6 or 8). Now he is some ball carrier (and 3 tries in his 3 starts for Munster isn't bad either).

CJ stander looks some player. Has he expressed and interest in playing for Ireland? To be honest the weak link in Irish rugby is the Irish. The more overseas players and coaches we can get in the national side the better .

Stander, Strauss and Payne will save Irish rugby .

I laugh. The fact this is actually true makes me both laugh and cry however.

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Hookey, CJ Stander should be Ireland qualified for the next world cup (6 or 8). Now he is some ball carrier (and 3 tries in his 3 starts for Munster isn't bad either).

CJ stander looks some player. Has he expressed and interest in playing for Ireland? To be honest the weak link in Irish rugby is the Irish. The more overseas players and coaches we can get in the national side the better .

Stander, Strauss and Payne will save Irish rugby .

This is a joke yes?

CJ will be back in SA by 2015 hopefully. I would hate to see him on the irish team given that its a postion that we have good dept in.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:CJ will be back in SA by 2015 hopefully. I would hate to see him on the irish team given that its a postion that we have good dept in.

People like CJ (if he commits) and Strauss are only ever going to be back up players. There arent any regular starters in the Irish team that arent Irish and there havent been that many in the past.

Last time on here Henry was the best openside in the NH he must be nearly 8 ft tall at this stage. Not bad for a journeyman made to look good by his fellow clubmates like Court , Jackson etc...

I thought the old northern victimhood went out with the referendum back in the 90's...

LeinsterFan4life wrote:CJ will be back in SA by 2015 hopefully. I would hate to see him on the irish team given that its a postion that we have good dept in.

No. He will be staying. Seems SA told him he is too small. Seems to be a dead-on bloke. His fiancee is a swimmer who twitters a lot. She has got a place with the Swim Ireland High Performance Unit in Limerick and will be looking to represent Ireland. (Her brother is a triple Olympic Gold medal winner for SA - Ryk Neethling).

Love the Irish posters - you lads could get banter out of a cold piece of granite.

Interesting that Madigan is edging this poll. I wonder whether if the poll had actually asked whom Deccie will actually choose the result would have been the same.

DOD wrote:I thought the old northern victimhood went out with the referendum back in the 90's...

It came back in when they left out Henry and stole our fleg.

George Carlin wrote:Love the Irish posters - you lads could get banter out of a cold piece of granite.

Interesting that Madigan is edging this poll. I wonder whether if the poll had actually asked whom Deccie will actually choose the result would have been the same.

He will pick O'gara. Who will he pick for the bench? Maybe Paddy wallace

GunsGerms wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:CJ will be back in SA by 2015 hopefully. I would hate to see him on the irish team given that its a postion that we have good dept in.

People like CJ (if he commits) and Strauss are only ever going to be back up players. There arent any regular starters in the Irish team that arent Irish and there havent been that many in the past.

If the team is picked on merit Payne will be a regular

toml wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Love the Irish posters - you lads could get banter out of a cold piece of granite.

Interesting that Madigan is edging this poll. I wonder whether if the poll had actually asked whom Deccie will actually choose the result would have been the same.

He will pick O'gara. Who will he pick for the bench? Maybe Paddy wallace

It's valentine's day- gotta stand by Paddy Wallace and say he'd do a job. As good as O'Gara, no doubt!

Notch wrote:

toml wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Love the Irish posters - you lads could get banter out of a cold piece of granite.

Interesting that Madigan is edging this poll. I wonder whether if the poll had actually asked whom Deccie will actually choose the result would have been the same.

He will pick O'gara. Who will he pick for the bench? Maybe Paddy wallace

It's valentine's day- gotta stand by Paddy Wallace and say he'd do a job. As good as O'Gara, no doubt!

Christ we don't want anyone who'll do as good as ROG, we'll have enough turnovers, missed tackles and scuffed touch finders as it is......

See, rodders gets it!

Heard Sexton is out for 4-6 weeks...

the-goon wrote:Heard Sexton is out for 4-6 weeks...

Was just going to say that the positive in that is that Jackson and/or Madigan might get some valuable experience but then I remebered that ROG will be playing.

The sad thing is that even if RoG has a mare the same old faces will want him to play against France because it's too big a game to throw in a young lad.

the-goon wrote:Heard Sexton is out for 4-6 weeks...

Wow 4-6 weeks and a torn hamsting... that must have been some stamp.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:The sad thing is that even when Heislip has a mare the same old faces will want him to play against France because it's too big a game to throw in a young lad.

Fixed that for you.

Sin é wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:The sad thing is that even when Heislip has a mare the same old faces will want him to play against France because it's too big a game to throw in a young lad.

Fixed that for you.

Realistically tho, Sin, who's the alternative to Heaslip, your only recently appointed captain - totally agreed he's not been tearing up trees, but Kidney is a bit trapped by this one to be fair?

Sin,I've told you already don't bother replying to me as I can't see your posts unless someone quotes you,I have no interest in interacting with a boorish bluffer like yourself who thinks that by shouting longer and louder than everyone else you automatically win the debate.

George Carlin wrote:Any selection other than ROG is Interfering With Destiny. We can't have Madigan. He's good at playing rugby and everything, which is just not on. I absolutely realise that it is pathetic and desperately unfair but I still haven't forgiven O'Gara for the 2nd Lions test.

And I'm not sure that the Make Up Sex is going to happen between ROG and all Irish supporters this time.

Spot on mo chara. Goes against Kidney's grain. Love ya mate.

He'll start ROG. But, if he includes Madigan in the 23, I'll forgive him even that. At least the transition will have begun.

Let's be Frank here, Jackson or Keatley will never make it in a full Irish jersey.

Everyone knows that.

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:

toml wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Love the Irish posters - you lads could get banter out of a cold piece of granite.

Interesting that Madigan is edging this poll. I wonder whether if the poll had actually asked whom Deccie will actually choose the result would have been the same.

He will pick O'gara. Who will he pick for the bench? Maybe Paddy wallace

It's valentine's day- gotta stand by Paddy Wallace and say he'd do a job. As good as O'Gara, no doubt!

Christ we don't want anyone who'll do as good as ROG, we'll have enough turnovers, missed tackles and scuffed touch finders as it is......

Ja. Paddy Bloody Wallace gets my vote over ROG. Man has sweet hands as well.

Dont know about 10 but our 2nd row could be desperate

Potentially down to DOC, Toner, Stevenson and Henderson

Thought Ryan was fit Geoff? Whats up with Touhy?

I'm guessing we'll start with DOC and Ryan with Toner on the bench which is a pretty toxic combination.

DOC can't do 80 min anymore so if he is replaced by Toner we'll have two LH locks on the field and the scrum will be destroyed.

Stevenson is the best like for like replacement.

rodders wrote:Thought Ryan was fit Geoff? Whats up with Touhy?

I'm guessing we'll start with DOC and Ryan with Toner on the bench which is a pretty toxic combination.

DOC can't do 80 min anymore so if he is replaced by Toner we'll have two LH locks on the field and the scrum will be destroyed.

Stevenson is the best like for like replacement.

rodders, don't worry, it's a Scotland scrum without Rev Murray so won't be that fearsome

Ryan is having a scan next week, as is BOD.

Both will probably play but neither certain

Tuohy pulled out of the Zebre game with back pain.
I do not see how he can be considered given he has had hardly any game time recently

I agree with it probably being DOC and Ryan with Toner on the bench but I also agree it should be Stevenson not Toner.

I'd go further if there is any doubt about Ryan I'd have Stevenson and Henderson on the bench and drop Henry.

Unlucky on Henry, and Toner, but balance and adequate cover is key

We need Court to start this game, he extra ability in the scrum is vital with 2nd row issues we are potentially having.

Gibson wrote:
Spot on mo chara. Goes against Kidney's grain. Love ya mate.

He'll start ROG. But, if he includes Madigan in the 23, I'll forgive him even that. At least the transition will have begun.

Let's be Frank here, Jackson or Keatley will never make it in a full Irish jersey.

Everyone knows that.

I think that's being very harsh on Jackson,look at where he is now and compare it to Madigan or Sexton at that age.Jackson is miles further along in his development than they were at his age so I wouldn't write him off.

It is also complete rubbish.

Paddy Jackson has started 21 games and come on as a sub 10 times.

At the same age Sexton had 1 appearance as a sub and was not impressive for a further 2/3 years.

In a years time he wil lhave something like 50 appearance under his belt, at the same stage Sexton was on 4

Jackson is the real deal

Means nothing to most people, Geoff, if Madigan outplays him in a single Ulster-Leinster game. You know how it works.

geoff998rugby wrote:It is also complete rubbish.

Paddy Jackson has started 21 games and come on as a sub 10 times.

At the same age Sexton had 1 appearance as a sub and was not impressive for a further 2/3 years.

In a years time he wil lhave something like 50 appearance under his belt, at the same stage Sexton was on 4

Jackson is the real deal

Yep,I like Jackson and think he'll be a top player.Just how good is hard to say but really his kicking game is the only real area of weakness at the minute and that's something that gets better with age.

geoff998rugby wrote:It is also complete rubbish.

Paddy Jackson has started 21 games and come on as a sub 10 times.

At the same age Sexton had 1 appearance as a sub and was not impressive for a further 2/3 years.

In a years time he wil lhave something like 50 appearance under his belt, at the same stage Sexton was on 4

Jackson is the real deal

Bit harsh on Sexton. Its not like you have a Contepomi at Ulster keeping Jackson out of the side.

geoff998rugby wrote:It is also complete rubbish.

Paddy Jackson has started 21 games and come on as a sub 10 times.

At the same age Sexton had 1 appearance as a sub and was not impressive for a further 2/3 years.

In a years time he wil lhave something like 50 appearance under his belt, at the same stage Sexton was on 4

Jackson is the real deal

Yup and a bit much is being made of his supposed downturn in form. He was playing excellent rugby before his injury and his goal kicking was top class too. I actually think he plays better alongside Marshall or Heany so this stuff about Pienaar carrying him that some people like to spout is nonsence too.

GunsGerms wrote:
Bit harsh on Sexton. Its not like you have a Contepomi at Ulster keeping Jackson out of the side.

Fair point too.

geoff998rugby wrote:It is also complete rubbish.

Paddy Jackson has started 21 games and come on as a sub 10 times.

At the same age Sexton had 1 appearance as a sub and was not impressive for a further 2/3 years.

In a years time he wil lhave something like 50 appearance under his belt, at the same stage Sexton was on 4

Jackson is the real deal

Who didst Sexton sit behind at Leinster, and indeed at Ireland, during his behind the scenes days? Who was Leinster Fly half at Leinster when Sexton was 21?

Who does Jackson stand behind?

Let's not blame lesser players for the presence of 'greatness' in their squads as they sit it out waiting forlornly for their chance. Contepomi was no slouch I hear tell.

Hmm, one Rodders Esq beat me to it....

oh sorry....yonder Guns did...!

GunsGerms wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:It is also complete rubbish.

Paddy Jackson has started 21 games and come on as a sub 10 times.

At the same age Sexton had 1 appearance as a sub and was not impressive for a further 2/3 years.

In a years time he wil lhave something like 50 appearance under his belt, at the same stage Sexton was on 4

Jackson is the real deal

Bit harsh on Sexton. Its not like you have a Contepomi at Ulster keeping Jackson out of the side.

In fairness Sexton wasn't anywhere near the squad,if Contepomi was injured back then it wasn't like Sexton was going to be his back up.