2013 version 2.0 Wales vs England bickering thread.

[Biltong]

First topic message reminder :

Carry on your bickering here.

I was going to summarise the previous thread, but going through a thousand posts and ultimately it ends on goats, sheep on your 18th brithday that hangs around longer than strippers doesn't say much for the rest of the content.

Enjoy.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I like the fact that conditions have varied across the tournament so far. It becomes a test of which teams can adapt best to the rain / freezing cold / whatever. If a team can only play when the sun's shining, then they can't be that good. Rugby's an outdoor sport, and a winter outdoor sport at that.

[Knackeredknees]

Been watching for the inevitable "devalued 6Ns/worst competition in years/SH better standard" comments from the Welsh now they can't win the tournament...

it will pop up sooner or later.

Probably after Scotland dump them out of the running.

An apocalytpic France, dismal Ireland, Wales scraping wins after losing their way and the usual stuff from Italy, only Scoland have made a fist of it, of course the 6 Natiosn is not devalued this year...and Wales aren't interetsed in 'winning' it, we are only interested in another Slam...will have to wait to next year to make it 4 out of 9

4 out of 9 is better than you current 4 out of 34 I suppose

[100%beefy]

Been watching for the inevitable "devalued 6Ns/worst competition in years/SH better standard" comments from the Welsh now they can't win the tournament...

it will pop up sooner or later.

Probably after Scotland dump them out of the running.

An apocalytpic France, dismal Ireland, Wales scraping wins after losing their way and the usual stuff from Italy, only Scoland have made a fist of it, of course the 6 Natiosn is not devalued this year...and Wales aren't interetsed in 'winning' it, we are only interested in another Slam...will have to wait to next year to make it 4 out of 9

4 out of 9 is better than you current 4 out of 34 I suppose

Y A W N....ancient history no one cares...more Slams since 05 than the rest of the home unions put together! England haven't won it for 10 years

[mystiroakey]

so beefy does that make wales the better rugby team?

[100%beefy]

'better' than who?

[mystiroakey]

better than who?

on this thread.. infact on any thread..

when it comes to wales there is only one other team yo!!

[100%beefy]

Oh I see, you are trying to draw me into an irrelevant arm wrestle....based on 6 Nations performance Wales ae the better side, butsince England are the best team in the world after beating the All Blacks then I suppose we wull have to wait 3 weeks to find out won't we strokey

[mystiroakey]

So you agree that the only other team that matters is England?

[100%beefy]

So you agree that the only other team that matters is England?

your man sausage...MY MAN SAUSAGE

[mystiroakey]

Yeah mines bigger.

Your point is?

[mystiroakey]

actually your a horse what am i saying.

[100%beefy]

actually your a horse what am i saying.

[gregortree]

Beefy, you need to send that email to the IRB.
They must have made a terrible mistake:

1(1) NEW ZEALAND 90.08
2(2) SOUTH AFRICA 86.94
3(3) AUSTRALIA 86.87
4(4) ENGLAND 85.30
(5) FRANCE 81.20
6(7) WALES 80.74
7(6) IRELAND 79.28

[100%beefy]

Beefy, you need to send that email to the IRB.
They must have made a terrible mistake:

1(1) NEW ZEALAND 90.08
2(2) SOUTH AFRICA 86.94
3(3) AUSTRALIA 86.87
4(4) ENGLAND 85.30
(5) FRANCE 81.20
6(7) WALES 80.74
7(6) IRELAND 79.28

what are you talking about?

[gregortree]

[quote="100%beefy"][quote="Knackeredknees"]

4 out of 9 is better than you current 4 out of 34 I suppose

Y A W N....ancient history no one cares...more Slams since 05 than the rest of the home unions put together! England haven't won it for 10 years

You may wish to check IRB more recent history.

[100%beefy]

No i do not wish to do that ...how is the IRB rankings vaguely relevant to the 6 Nations...the Champions, Wales, who have dominated the competition in the last 8 years with 3 Slams, more than the rest of the Home Unions put together, may well have a face off at home with a team that has consistent rep for dropping the ball on the last day and has not Slammed for 10 years. Obviously , however much you want them to, the IRB rankings do not reflect that, and England, a team which is well known for having an arrogant label stamped upon it, about which the fans who cause it moan incessantly, are on the verge of glory, again.

[mystiroakey]

beefy my concern is that you are only concentrating on wales acheivements of slamming(in a 8 year time line only!!) .If england had slamed 3 times, but wales had won it 5 times and had 3 seconds in that time. I have this feeling you wouldnt care about slams so much!

Offcourse we are the same on the other side.. We will reduce the slamming importance in a debate, and we will concentrate on actuall win records, win records in tournies(including the WC) etc etc..

We are as bad as each other Yo!!

[RubyGuby]

I agree with Oakey - realistically you should look at the most recent competitve
tournaments to judge a team as anything in between is superfluous. Therefore the 2011 RWC and 2012 6 Nations are the best guiding factors of how good a team is in reality

[100%beefy]

Strokey, concern yourself with facts not what you think i might think.

I only care about Slams, there is no glory whatsoever in winning it, especially by PD on a loss.

No glory in getting to the final game and choking

We are not the same on opposing sides, Wales recent record in the 6 Nations is incontrivertible and proves, because of the fluctuations in performance,that we know how to Slam it, themuch quoted suggestion that because England are somehow comparable because they came 2nd lots and are therefroe more consistent (in not winning) just makes me laugh and those proponents of that argument look stupid. Right now English fans are like headless chickens who just discovred their man sausage, they don't want to tell everyone as they knOW they shoudln't but they just can't help playing with themselves. The Slam is not important blah blah blah, its the Championship that counts and 2nd will show how consistent we are while Wales are alwasy coming 4th (when not Slamming) blah di blah di fooking blah. The Slam is not importnat to England right now, and won't be until you win it! Then of course it will be the most important thing since RWC 2003 except during the devalued years of course.

England are the RWC side, Wales are the Grand Slam side. Fact.

Here endeth the lesson

[mystiroakey]

Yep Wales have been the better tourny team in the short term!! I admit it!

But it wont be long till that changes will it

[100%beefy]

I agree with Oakey - realistically you should look at the most recent competitve
tournaments to judge a team as anything in between is superfluous. Therefore the 2011 RWC and 2012 6 Nations are the best guiding factors of how good a team is in reality

well donefor saying what i wanted to say with humour

[mystiroakey]

Beefy we are not different trust me. Just passionate fans..

I do agree that I didnt celebrate after the Ireland loss in 2011.

Infact i was much happier coming second in 2012..

I dont shout about the england 6n's record at all.

However this is a wum thread and if its gonna happen it will be on here..

[RubyGuby]

I'm just happy that your happy coming 2nd to Wales Oakey

[Knackeredknees]

Oh I see, you are trying to draw me into an irrelevant arm wrestle....based on 6 Nations performance Wales ae the better side, butsince England are the best team in the world after beating the All Blacks then I suppose we wull have to wait 3 weeks to find out won't we strokey

I beg to disagree Beefy

Pld W D L PF PA PD Trys Pts Champs GS TC WS
England 68 46 1 21 1902 1051 + 851 200 93 4 1 2 0
France 68 46 1 21 1762 1195 + 567 173 93 5 3 N/A 0
Ireland 68 45 1 22 1673 1309 + 364 171 91 1 1 4 0
Wales 68 35 2 31 1508 1530 - 22 138 72 3 3 3 1
Scotland 68 18 2 48 1092 1683 − 581 80 40 0 0 0 3
Italy 68 10 1 57 1002 2181 − 1179 80 21 0 0 N/A

There you go, you may have the same number of GS as France but less championships/wins/try's/PD than England, but on the plus side you do have more wooden spoons than us

[mystiroakey]

I am, happy with the way we played. I was p!ssed of in 2011. We wernt right for the upcoming RWC..

I have no issue with wales myself, it could have been anyone beating us with a slam.I Just join in on the banter sometimes!

[100%beefy]

Oh I see, you are trying to draw me into an irrelevant arm wrestle....based on 6 Nations performance Wales ae the better side, butsince England are the best team in the world after beating the All Blacks then I suppose we wull have to wait 3 weeks to find out won't we strokey

I beg to disagree Beefy

Pld W D L PF PA PD Trys Pts Champs GS TC WS
England 68 46 1 21 1902 1051 + 851 200 93 4 1 2 0
France 68 46 1 21 1762 1195 + 567 173 93 5 3 N/A 0
Ireland 68 45 1 22 1673 1309 + 364 171 91 1 1 4 0
Wales 68 35 2 31 1508 1530 - 22 138 72 3 3 3 1
Scotland 68 18 2 48 1092 1683 − 581 80 40 0 0 0 3
Italy 68 10 1 57 1002 2181 − 1179 80 21 0 0 N/A

There you go, you may have the same number of GS as France but less championships/wins/try's/PD than England, but on the plus side you do have more wooden spoons than us

if that is all you have got then fine stats don't lie, England are better well done have a gold star

Not having won a Slam for 10 years, the Holy Grail of 6 Nations comp, speaks for itself, they should have 3 more they dont have as well i think because they often choke...it's like saying Hitler was more successful than the allies cos he kicked butt until 1942 and then in the last few years of the war got reamed. Look at it this way, Project 2015 is constantly banging on about 2003, Inverdale's first words Saturday were....are these guys going to do what they did in AD 2003 and SCW can't help but spluff himself every 5 minutes talking about when he was coach, so even if we use that as a cut off point identifed by England then it is just barking to suggest England are currently out performing Wales in the 6 Nations.

[lostinwales]

Funny thing is if you look at the 6 nations all time table guess who comes in at 4th?
4th highest no. wins
4th highest no. tries
most times in 4th place....

[100%beefy]

Let me have 4 guesses

[Cyril]

beefy, you take your bickering FAR too seriously.

[mystiroakey]

england are 4th in the world..

dunno what that means

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

it is just barking to suggest England are currently out performing Wales in the 6 Nations.

Team P W D L F A PD TF TA TBP LBP Pts
England 3 3 0 0 73 37 +36 5 3 0 0 6
Wales 3 2 0 1 64 45 +19 6 3 0 0 4
Scotland 3 2 0 1 64 56 +8 6 6 0 0 4
Ireland 3 1 0 2 44 46 -2 4 3 0 0 2
Italy 3 1 0 2 42 78 -36 3 8 0 0 2
France 3 0 0 3 37 62 -25 3 4 0 0 0

[100%beefy]

it is just barking to suggest England are currently out performing Wales in the 6 Nations.

Team P W D L F A PD TF TA TBP LBP Pts
England 3 3 0 0 73 37 +36 5 3 0 0 6
Wales 3 2 0 1 64 45 +19 6 3 0 0 4
Scotland 3 2 0 1 64 56 +8 6 6 0 0 4
Ireland 3 1 0 2 44 46 -2 4 3 0 0 2
Italy 3 1 0 2 42 78 -36 3 8 0 0 2
France 3 0 0 3 37 62 -25 3 4 0 0 0

[100%beefy]

beefy, you take your bickering FAR too seriously.

Never Cyril....but thank you for the kind words, a bickering thread is just for that purpose, serious Olympian gloves off scrapping, where the metal meets the meat

[mystiroakey]

[100%beefy]

not the stroking kind

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

it is just barking to suggest England are currently out performing Wales in the 6 Nations.

Team P W D L F A PD TF TA TBP LBP Pts
England 3 3 0 0 73 37 +36 5 3 0 0 6
Wales 3 2 0 1 64 45 +19 6 3 0 0 4
Scotland 3 2 0 1 64 56 +8 6 6 0 0 4
Ireland 3 1 0 2 44 46 -2 4 3 0 0 2
Italy 3 1 0 2 42 78 -36 3 8 0 0 2
France 3 0 0 3 37 62 -25 3 4 0 0 0

Yes the current 6 nations table?

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

not the stroking kind

You keep pitching them up there...we'll keep on hitting them back

[mystiroakey]

not the stroking kind

[100%beefy]

it is just barking to suggest England are currently out performing Wales in the 6 Nations.

Team P W D L F A PD TF TA TBP LBP Pts
England 3 3 0 0 73 37 +36 5 3 0 0 6
Wales 3 2 0 1 64 45 +19 6 3 0 0 4
Scotland 3 2 0 1 64 56 +8 6 6 0 0 4
Ireland 3 1 0 2 44 46 -2 4 3 0 0 2
Italy 3 1 0 2 42 78 -36 3 8 0 0 2
France 3 0 0 3 37 62 -25 3 4 0 0 0

Yes the current 6 nations table?

Oh dear there is always one semantic pedant and i wager it is always you! The current table, that's very good did you think of it all on your own!

Since the last time we played each other was in Twickenham a year ago and we beat you i suggest that is the best measurement of who is outperforming when comparing two sides, most people woudl settle for 1. Who won the competition last - Wales and 2. Who beat the other on the day - Wales

If you have to resort to where we are in the table when we are half way through the tourney then yes PSBW, congratulations, you're a winner!

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

it is just barking to suggest England are currently out performing Wales in the 6 Nations.

Team P W D L F A PD TF TA TBP LBP Pts
England 3 3 0 0 73 37 +36 5 3 0 0 6
Wales 3 2 0 1 64 45 +19 6 3 0 0 4
Scotland 3 2 0 1 64 56 +8 6 6 0 0 4
Ireland 3 1 0 2 44 46 -2 4 3 0 0 2
Italy 3 1 0 2 42 78 -36 3 8 0 0 2
France 3 0 0 3 37 62 -25 3 4 0 0 0

Yes the current 6 nations table?

Oh dear there is always one semantic pedant and i wager it is always you! The current table, that's very good did you think of it all on your own!

Since the last time we played each other was in Twickenham a year ago and we beat you i suggest that is the best measurement of who is outperforming when comparing two sides, most people woudl settle for 1. Who won the competition last - Wales and 2. Who beat the other on the day - Wales

If you have to resort to where we are in the table when we are half way through the tourney then yes PSBW, congratulations, you're a winner!

Sorry wasnt it you banging on about history being irrelevant that bought up the CURRENT performances argument in the first place?

I know its a bit unfair to resort to using the actual meaning of words .....

[100%beefy]

such as bought as opposed to brought...though one imagines you are used to buying it

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

such as bought as opposed to brought...though one imagines you are used to buying it

OK I made a typo I failed

England still top of the six nations table though, with a better record over the current 3 year period

[100%beefy]

Oh you are persistent i give you that, just like your moniker you never give up
Okay, last 3 years...how many championships have you won since 2010 and how many slams?

[Breadvan]

.....the Samoan wins a match for you.
Painfully embarrassing watching England at the moment, it's like a game of spot the English man! oh there's one trying to be the hard man just like his daddy was, but failing miserably at it with his hair bouncing around and pulling a face like a child who has been told no in toyRus.

March 16th bring it on bitches

Oh view.. your such a scamp. Is the spot the Englishmen similar to spot the Welshmen circa 1999-2001?

[mystiroakey]

50%horse its gonna be 2 wins, 1 slam , 1 second and 1 third?


i think wales has had 1 win(1 slam!!) in that time

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

2 wins, 1 slam, and another win almost certain with a strong chance of a slam.. You're forgetting I'm Welsh qualified too (which means I cant lose a bicker)

Outperforming over a 3 year period though wouldnt be shown by slam wins only, but overall wins loss and points record. of which England have the superior. Outperforming this year too, outperformed last year yes.

Its as arbitrary a definition of "current" as yours which meant "last year only" ... or just post 2003 not including the ones where England did well.

Its certainly far from barking to be able to make a strong case that England are currently the better side. This is the Tooting train, its you that got on the Barking line.

[100%beefy]

2010: France Slam
2011: England win
2012: Wales Slam

Not vaguely interested in who came 4th with 35 PD blah blah

Wlaes and England have both won once, Wales with a Slam, thanks for playing and good night

[mystiroakey]

we will play that game in a few weeks as well..

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Ah its the historical slam winners bickering thread where you respond to posts without even having read them. Glad we got that sorted, I seem to have joined the wrong argument :oops:

[100%beefy]

2 wins, 1 slam, and another win almost certain with a strong chance of a slam.. You're forgetting I'm Welsh qualified too (which means I cant lose a bicker)

Outperforming over a 3 year period though wouldnt be shown by slam wins only, but overall wins loss and points record. of which England have the superior. Outperforming this year too, outperformed last year yes.

Its as arbitrary a definition of "current" as yours which meant "last year only" ... or just post 2003 not including the ones where England did well.

Its certainly far from barking to be able to make a strong case that England are currently the better side. This is the Tooting train, its you that got on the Barking line.

I knew you were a double agent, the kind of poster that goes with the flow. Very sad.

The arbitrary 10 years was selected by Inverdale not me

Fella you are Becontree not Barking

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