Glasgow underrated?

First topic message reminder :

Glasgow sit a very good 2nd in the Pro 12, made the play offs the year before.

They have a very good first XV and a good squad. Some of thier players are very high class as well, yet I don't think they get the respect they deserve yet.

Ok they haven't done much in the H-cup and that is the stage to get noticed.

They have the best defense in the league (points conceded and one of the best points scored), yet yet are very under rated by opposing fans (think Glasgow fans are happy to go under the radar at present, and quietly go about thier buiness).

My point is why do teams like Scarlets garner respect and Glasgow haven't quite got this same level yet, and have outperformed them the last 2 years (not to single out Scarlets just using an example)?

A team that finishes 2nd in the Top 14 or Jeff, is one most people look to avoid yet I don't think Glasgow will receive the same respect as the other 2 teams that finish second in thier league.

Is it because these other teams are better supported therefore get more media hype, and Glasgow are outside the limelight? Is it becuase of Glasgows failure recently on the European stage to make other fans take notice? Are other teams worried about facing them yet, and are English wishing to avoid them in the H-cup.

What do Glasgow need to do to earn it?
2nd in league would do it?
Get to play off final?
Get to knock outs in H-cup?
Beat a big English/French team for the media to take notice?
Any of the above?

See, beshocked- this is how out of touch you are. Munster are completely average this season. Like Ulster and Edinburgh last year they are unlikely too make the playoffs of their own league just enjoying a decent Cup run.

Last season Cardiff Blues got to a quarter-final. That just about proves any useless team can make it to a quarter-final with a bit of luck. Means nothing compared to league form unless they go on and win it.

beshocked wrote:red stag it was an average group.

I believe it was the only group in the HC this season in which all four sides were in the playoff places of their domestic league during the pool stages. Four of Europes form teams, two recent runners up and a Castres side with an impressive home record.

Can't see how it's anything other than one of the harder groups.

Glasgow are now at the top of the pro12 on points diff.

What is 'respect'?

Fear?

I think a lot of what people refer to as 'respect' is really an allusion to the other one, 'fear'.

So - do traditional lower sides fear the traditional higher ones? Does Connacht fear Leinster? Does Glasgow fear Ospreys? Does Italy fear France? I wouldn't think so.

Respect is I'm afraid something gained from winning things.... the more important and tough the winning is, the more 'respect' you get. NZ have earned the 'respect'...(and lack of it!) they get, Ireland haven't earned the respect of the NZ rugby followers because they've failed register a single win. You can play well but winning seals 'respect' - of a certain kind.

So you earn respect, I think....but the 'respect' of fear? I don't really think it's part of the deal in this modern professional world where every player thinks he can get the better of his opposite number on any given day.

Jenifer mcladyboy Saracens aren't rubbish. If you think that you truly are a fool. Look my observations are this -

Glasgow are not a top 10 side in Europe in my opinion.They have done well in the pro12 this season and last season but have had very poor results in the HC. For the record I don't respect Castres either for the same reasons.neither have won the top 14 or pro12 either.

If my side plays them in the HC I won't write them off as an instant win. To say I think my side is stronger has upset many of you even though I am probably right.

I think there is a bit of overhyping of Glasgow because many of you follow the pro12 and because of your loyalty to that competition think that Glasgow are better than they are.



21st century schizoid they better do after the amount of hype and build up you are giving them.

Munster have the records, history, mental strength and winning mentality. On form perhaps glasgow are the better side but on reputation, class etc Munster are still a team that deserves more respect. Munster are a traditional European giant, Glasgow are not. Glasgow must earn respect. It takes time.

Agree with all of that tbh

Notch you could do the same to most pools - e.g. Pool 1 - 2 quarter finalists last season and one semifinalist in the HC.

Most French sides are good at home.

Saints aren't a form side. In the AP so far there has basically been a clear top 3 then the rest fighting it out.

Saracens are muck by your own rules. 1 HC semi. Boring crash bash AP doesn't count.

Sarries are around the standard of Edinburg. If you get past Ulster then I will upgrade you to slightly above muck by those rules you made.

Beshocked,

So it is more likely that a large group of people who are not from Scotland have a loyalty to Glasgow than say . . . . I dunno . . . . a say a Saracens fan has for his own team.

Using your logic below:

I think there is a bit of overhyping of Glasgow because many of you follow the pro12 and because of your loyalty to that competition think that Glasgow are better than they are.

Would you not say that it is more likely that you are over hyping Saracens because you support them and your loyalty makes you think of them as better than they are?

Or have the goalposts moved again?

Funny jenifer. 2 consecutive quarter finals is muck is it? Even your side failed to qualify for the quarter finals this time round.

The HC is the battleground of the pro12, top 14 and ap. Last season the pro 12 got the most bragging rights. This time round the advantage lies with the ap and top 14 so far. The HC is our chance to compare the respective clubs and leagues.

Glasgow obviously have the respect of pro12 followers and deservedly so but top 14 and ap followers will perhaps take a bit more convincing.

If Glasgow can make positive headway in the HC then they will get more recognition.

beshocked wrote:Funny jenifer. 2 consecutive quarter finals is muck is it?

By your rules?

Fock yeah. Munster were in 13 QFs in a row. THIRTEEN! Come back to me with your 3 HCs and we'll talk. Otherwise your side are useless.

Red stag depends what you mean by overhyping.

Is it hype to say Saracens are better than Glasgow in my opinion?

Is it hype to say England are better than Scotland in my opinion?

If Glasgow struggle vs saints or Castres - two sides Saracens have decent records against I personally can't see them beating a stronger side. Again that's my opinion.

Well at least we have got to the point where it's "just your opinion"

Progress!

Serious question - does the seeding system skew things.

Biarritz are probably best example. They did well once so they get an easy group, so they do well, so they get an easy group following year, so they do well, so they get another easy group (see a pattern).

Jenifer You don't get it do you?

How many hcs have clermont won? Are they rubbish as well?

Is every side that hasn't won a HC rubbish?

Anyway at least ulster seem to be taking the quarter final seriously.

Glasgow might well just be starting their rise to greatness - we will have to see. As I said if Glasgow do well in the HC next season then they'll of course be viewed as a threat.

beshocked wrote:Jenifer You don't get it do you?

I don't get it? I'm just trying to hold a mirror to you. Reverse the points you make to show you how foolish they are.

There is only one person who doesn't get it on this thread.

Red stag yes they do but then again sides have to make the most of when pools go their way. Edinburgh did that last season. Quins this season etc.

Ospreys have been a bit unlucky with pools but there's only so much excuses for failure can go on that.

Biarritz blew a golden chance to progress yet again this season.

It can be an advantage being lower ranked too.

The two sides that everyone want to avoid have not changed - clermont and Leinster

Jenifer you are the Leinster version of Jimpy

beshocked wrote:Jenifer you are the Leinster version of Jimpy

Dunno what that means but I take it that it's bad.

See what trying to think like you does to a person?

red_stag wrote:Serious question - does the seeding system skew things.

Biarritz are probably best example. They did well once so they get an easy group, so they do well, so they get an easy group following year, so they do well, so they get another easy group (see a pattern).

For years Clermont were third seeds! Just a few unlucky draws. Meanwhile, Cardiff last year owed their quarter-final to their seeding... they were poor in truth.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

beshocked wrote:Jenifer You don't get it do you?

I don't get it? I'm just trying to hold a mirror to you. Reverse the points you make to show you how foolish they are.

There is only one person who doesn't get it on this thread.

Yes. Cannot believe we are still handing the buttered toast to the baby on this thread.

I'm going to try this at work. I will form an opinion about something about which I freely admit to knowing nothing and I will demand that others take time and effort to formulate rational, cogent and well researched counterviews which I will later then inform these people that I also intend to ignore, as it gets in the way of the pointless sneeze of vitriol that troubled my head in the first place. I'll let you know if it works in real life, Beshocked.

I think I'll start with the postulations that unicorns are real and that Narnia is a stop on the Piccadilly Line.

I've only just stumbled onto this thread, and what can I say? 'Wow' seems the best response.

I think the last 100-odd posts can be summed up by the wonderful Stewart Lee:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n-UGQcG3Jw

Glasgow are going great. But do Glasgow fans not see any merit in beshocks point that there's a difference between being successful in the PRO12 and successful in the HC.

Getting out of a HC pool is the most difficult task in European rugby and being able to do it regularly is the sign of a really good team. Even when Leinster were at the top of their game, I remember a few players talking about how difficult the pool stage is. One loss and you're already under serious pressure.

That's why Munsters 13 or so quarter finals is so impressive and marks then out as a real heavyweight of European rugby, not just a decent team that's currently in good form.

By the way, as always I agree that the HC seedings are dumb. They should either be much more fluid like the points exchange in international rugby, or it should be an open draw.

IanBru wrote:I've only just stumbled onto this thread, and what can I say? 'Wow' seems the best response.

I think the last 100-odd posts can be summed up by the wonderful Stewart Lee:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n-UGQcG3Jw

that's a great sketch anyway. but twice as funny in the context .

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

IanBru wrote:I've only just stumbled onto this thread, and what can I say? 'Wow' seems the best response.

I think the last 100-odd posts can be summed up by the wonderful Stewart Lee:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n-UGQcG3Jw

that's a great sketch anyway. but twice as funny in the context .

"I'm not interested in facts. I find they tend to cloud my judgement. I prefer to rely on instinct and blind prejudice".

I'm well known on here as being a big fan of Glasgow Warriors and how they go about their business with limited resources. They are a credit to the PRO12. They give it more creedence than any other club in it. Ospreys would be my 2nd choice in that respect.

For 2 years running now, they have been incredibly consistent in our league. They lost the Grand Final playoff SF against us at the RDS, by a hair last season.
Us, being multiple and current European Champions, who consistently eat the top English sides for breakfast.

I really cant see how their participation in the HC has anything to do with this. I really don' t see how you can compare them to a cash-rich and grindingly dull Saffacens. Its pointless. I do know who I would prefer to pay my geld to see play live.

Suffice it to say that Glasgow are doing themselves and their fans proud this season Again.

I remain a huge fan of what they are trying to achieve. And all that against the financial and logistical head they have to deal with.

Be proud Glasgow fans. Ignore any condescending and misguided japes by those who don't know, they don't know. Just be proud and turn up in bigger numbers to show them how proud ye are.

Believe.

Im feelin de lurve and mutual respect, between Leinster and Glasgow fans on here. Equally defended so well by the intelligentsia of the Ulster and Munster contingent.

Just to say, ye will get yer orses handed to ye next week, in the biggest PRO12 game of this season so far. I hope.

I just hope its a great game like the SF last year lads. If we don't win it... Id just love to see ye in a Final at least. It would be great for the league. And even better for Warriors.

The PRO12 Rocks.

Thank you feckless rogue. Nice that at least someone can see some merit in what I am saying instead of continually banging the pro 12 is great and all that matters drum.

George carlin instead of continuing with your irrelevant jargon could you tell me what you disagree about?

Do you think Glasgow are a top 10 side in Europe? Yes or No.

Do you think Glasgow are better than Saracens? Yes or No

Do you believe Glasgow deserve to be respected outside the Pro12 for their performances in the HC? Yes or No

If Yes could you please explain why you have that opinion.

Instead of acting like a little baby yourself and telling me I know nothing please do enlighten me with your vast rugby knowledge.

Gibson I am answering the question in the thread. Are Glasgow underrated? The answer is obviously No.

I was comparing Glasgow to Saracens originally because both were 2nd in their respective leagues.That could well change this weekend though.

IanBru what do you think I am wrong about?

Funnily enough none of you Pro12 lovers have actually said what you disagree with me about. Could you formulate a logical and relevant response please?

beshocked wrote:IanBru what do you think I am wrong about?

Funnily enough none of you Pro12 lovers have actually said what you disagree with me about. Could you formulate a logical and relevant response please?

I'd say most of us couldn't be arsed. You would just ignore any points that did not suit your arguement again.

Try watching the stewart lee clip. If you can't figure out why it is relevant nothing we can say will help you.

Jenifer I don't think you know what you are arguing about. I don't think you ever did to be honest. Yes I do understand the relevance - any questioning of a pro12's side's greatness is met with anger. The pro 12 is the greatest. I get the message.

beshocked wrote:Jenifer I don't think you know what you are arguing about. I don't think you ever did to be honest. Yes I do understand the relevance - any questioning of a pro12's side's greatness is met with anger. The pro 12 is the greatest. I get the message.

No, the argument is the Pro12 counts for anything. As in, the Pro12 is as good a barometer of a teams standing as the Heineken Cup in many ways. Heineken Cup is where the great sides deliver. But Pro12 is not to be sneezed at.

Regardless of the league, five consecutive bonus point wins is impressive and illustrates Glasgow are a team on the rise. Whats more is if you look at the last few seasons Glasgow have been there or thereabouts. Not underrated in my opinion- they are just at the start of that rise. They've yet to make the breakthrough in Europe. But if you know your rugby you'll be tipping them to be the next breakthrough side in Europe, if they can keep their team together.

Notch the pro12 is of course of relevance but in that league you obviously don't meet the best teams of France and England ( which you do in the HC Cup). As I said Glasgow have done well in the pro12 but as ospreys have shown that doesn't necessary mean they will perform well in the HC.

Pro12 is a league, HC is virtually knock out rugby. Lose 2 games and your chances of qualifying hang by a thread in the pool stages.

You might well be right but we'll see - the pool will make a significant difference.

Glasgow have actually improved a lot since the HC matches, playing as they currently are I think they could have progressed from their group.