Can Ireland beat Italy?

First topic message reminder :

Italy are well overdue beating Ireland and I can see them pushing very hard for a second 6N victory. As an irishman I'll be watching this game very nervously in what may be O driscolls and kidneys last game...

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Maybe he's a confidence bollocker

It would be rude not to acknowledge this funny. Kudos. *tips hat*

Sin e, you talk about Earls likes he's a flower petal, a Gavin Henson type child-man who is only one harsh word from meltdown. I have more respect then that for Earls, a player who took enormous stick after his Lions debut to carve out a good provincial and solid international career. I hardly think a harsh word from BOD will give him the scutters.

dublin_dave wrote:no idea sin e but come on earls needs to have a thicker skin than that. he spurned two glorious chances at international level has to take a bit of flack.

i have seen leinster players bollock each other on numerous occasions for daft mistakes. cannot see the issue

Just because Leinster do it, doesn't mean its right. Leinster is also a team that has been together for a while.
Personally I think it makes the bollocker looked rattled and desparate which is of no use to your team.

By the way, I think it was Contempomi who brought that into Leinster - I remember him having a real go at Sexton one time about 5 or 6 years ago and you could visibly see Sexton deflate.

wolfball wrote:Sin e, you talk about Earls likes he's a flower petal, a Gavin Henson type child-man who is only one harsh word from meltdown. I have more respect then that for Earls, a player who took enormous stick after his Lions debut to carve out a good provincial and solid international career. I hardly think a harsh word from BOD will give him the scutters.

He has never been the same since that Lions Tour (and has spoken about it recently about never getting back the confidence he had in his late teens). He goes to 2 sports psychologists now. So yes, a bollocking from BOD would be very hard on him - but he doesn't matter - its what he can do on the pitch when confident is what matters and BOD should know that.

Sin e, you are the worst. I'm blocking your messages like many others on here.

As hard as nasty words from Shane Williams in a Tribunal?

I think this is touching on a real issue here. If players aren't mentally strong enough to take on-field criticism, how on earth do we expect them to be mentally strong enough to win anything?

We really need to toughen up. This is test rugby. The tough minded and determined survive and thrive where those who doubt and second guess themselves perish. Thats why ROG, BOD and POC were so vital in their prime. They weren't taking second best as an option and that self-belief was infectious.

Well their era is over or ending. Now we need 15 players with rock solid self-belief and mental strength and their is no room for passengers. Unfortunately there are a lot of guys from every province who don't seem to adapt well to that additional pressure. It's going to be a massive issue for the next coach to address.

Sexton is now heading to France for what? 600 or 700 thousand?

He's not exactly having flash backs about that basteraud Contepomi and the way he might chew into you on a bad day at the office.

Earls is - was - and will be - grand, Sin é. Stop worrying about Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. The one thing that worries Earls and all the other younger players is 'when will I get in next to prove myself!!!' That's all that frustrates him and others like him. When?

Glas a du wrote:As hard as nasty words from Shane Williams in a Tribunal?

What nasty words? Shane just told lies in a tribunal and got caught doing it.

eh its only natural in good teams. dont think leinster were over the top in anyway. just set high standards for themselves

drico lost it with earls and shot him a filthy but he hardly kept on at him all game afterwards. storm in a teacup this. bonkers debate lets move on

Sin é wrote:He has never been the same since that Lions Tour (and has spoken about it recently about never getting back the confidence he had in his late teens). He goes to 2 sports psychologists now.

So we drop him from the Ireland set-up, give him some space to get his head in the right place and work on his basics at provincial level. He's far too big a talent to write off but he just doesn't seem to possess a test match temperament. Yet he is constantly selected.

Ulster went through a similar thing with Niall O'Connor. The pressure always weighed heavily on him and we tried to persevere with him and nurse him through it... but he and Ulster never managed it.

I have sympathy for Keith Earls, the hardest opponent to conquer is yourself. I hope that he can and finally comes close to touching some of that potential of his. But maybe if he can't, we're just barking up the wrong tree? You need to be mentally strong at test level.

Poor ickle Keith is just too precious for international rugby. All Sin has done is put forward a good case of why he will never be international player. Well done Sin, chalk one up for the good guys and confirm everything we ever thought of him.

Notch wrote:I have sympathy for Keith Earls, the hardest opponent to conquer is yourself.

Apart from Paul O'Connell. Nobody conquers Paul O'Connell.

red_stag wrote:

Notch wrote:I have sympathy for Keith Earls, the hardest opponent to conquer is yourself.

Apart from Paul O'Connell. Nobody conquers Paul O'Connell.

Well the hardest opponent for Paul O'Connell to conquer is Paul O'Connell. Now there's a battle for the ages.

SecretFly wrote:Sexton is now heading to France for what? 600 or 700 thousand?

He's not exactly having flash backs about that basteraud Contepomi and the way he might chew into you on a bad day at the office.

Earls is - was - and will be - grand, Sin é. Stop worrying about Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. The one thing that worries Earls and all the other younger players is 'when will I get in next to prove myself!!!' That's all that frustrates him and others like him. When?

He might be a couple of million richer if he had overcome his difficulties at club level a bit earlier, though its funny when you think now that ROG used to get blamed for Sexton missing kicks because ROG was watching him in the stands.

Interesting that he is copying Contepomi now all these years later - the abused becomes the abuser

Notch wrote:

red_stag wrote:

Notch wrote:I have sympathy for Keith Earls, the hardest opponent to conquer is yourself.

Apart from Paul O'Connell. Nobody conquers Paul O'Connell.

Well the hardest opponent for Paul O'Connell to conquer is Paul O'Connell. Now there's a battle for the ages.

An unstoppable force meets an immovable object.

Can not compute . . . . .

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:He has never been the same since that Lions Tour (and has spoken about it recently about never getting back the confidence he had in his late teens). He goes to 2 sports psychologists now.

So we drop him from the Ireland set-up, give him some space to get his head in the right place and work on his basics at provincial level. He's far too big a talent to write off but he just doesn't seem to possess a test match temperament. Yet he is constantly selected.

Ulster went through a similar thing with Niall O'Connor. The pressure always weighed heavily on him and we tried to persevere with him and nurse him through it... but he and Ulster never managed it.

I have sympathy for Keith Earls, the hardest opponent to conquer is yourself. I hope that he can and finally comes close to touching some of that potential of his. But maybe if he can't, we're just barking up the wrong tree? You need to be mentally strong at test level.

There is nothing mentally strong about tearing into another player in full public view. It just shows you are rattled. If you need to do it, do it in the dressing room afterwards.

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:He has never been the same since that Lions Tour (and has spoken about it recently about never getting back the confidence he had in his late teens). He goes to 2 sports psychologists now.

So we drop him from the Ireland set-up, give him some space to get his head in the right place and work on his basics at provincial level. He's far too big a talent to write off but he just doesn't seem to possess a test match temperament. Yet he is constantly selected.

Ulster went through a similar thing with Niall O'Connor. The pressure always weighed heavily on him and we tried to persevere with him and nurse him through it... but he and Ulster never managed it.

I have sympathy for Keith Earls, the hardest opponent to conquer is yourself. I hope that he can and finally comes close to touching some of that potential of his. But maybe if he can't, we're just barking up the wrong tree? You need to be mentally strong at test level.

There is nothing mentally strong about tearing into another player in full public view. It just shows you are rattled. If you need to do it, do it in the dressing room afterwards.

Afterwards, the game is decided. The points have been scored, the final whistle is blown. Afterwards is too late. If Earls makes another linebreak two minutes later you can be damn sure BOD wants him to know what to do with it.

It's a warzone out there. You need 15 guys switched on and on top of their game, no passengers, and you need guys who react to pressure the right way. So if you screw up and your Captain comes over and issues some hard words, you need to react the right way or face being tossed out on your ear for the next match.

SecretFly wrote:Sexton is now heading to France for what? 600 or 700 thousand?

He's not exactly having flash backs about that basteraud Contepomi and the way he might chew into you on a bad day at the office.

Earls is - was - and will be - grand, Sin é. Stop worrying about Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. The one thing that worries Earls and all the other younger players is 'when will I get in next to prove myself!!!' That's all that frustrates him and others like him. When?

It cant really have been the money that tempted him to leave. On a per game basis he is probably coming away with around the same as the IRFU were offering. Seems like an odd move to me as I cant see Racing competing for anything really. Not even the Top 14. What are you at Sexton??

maybe we were rattled v the scots. up to kidney to get them back into the changing room and say right lads we are better than this lot, keep your heads and keep doing the right thing and we will be grand. his team talk whatever he said yet again did not work.

oh well. im done with this thread it has gone daft and turned into sin bashing leinster and drico. Rome will be a tricky assignment.

They will want to sign off in style and their backplay is better than most in the 6 nations. Hats off to Brunel they are well able to offload and make line breaks We may take them up front unlike Italian teams of the past.

Italy 20-23 Ireland

To be honest i do not really care what happens. We are playing for pride nothing else

I think Ireland will win by 20 points. Whats the worst that could happen?

GunsGerms wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Sexton is now heading to France for what? 600 or 700 thousand?

He's not exactly having flash backs about that basteraud Contepomi and the way he might chew into you on a bad day at the office.

Earls is - was - and will be - grand, Sin é. Stop worrying about Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. The one thing that worries Earls and all the other younger players is 'when will I get in next to prove myself!!!' That's all that frustrates him and others like him. When?

It cant really have been the money that tempted him to leave. On a per game basis he is probably coming away with around the same as the IRFU were offering. Seems like an odd move to me as I cant see Racing competing for anything really. Not even the Top 14. What are you at Sexton??

maybe he realises ...more than public utterances... that O'Driscoll is about to call it a day...D'arcy is about to call it a day...Schmidt is closing in on calling it a day...and Leinster, well, are they truly in line to go back up the ladder pronto and take another HC crown next year?

It's possible, it's always possible. But perhpas Sexton sees Leinster dismantling a little before they go back up..and maybe he thinks he can take the few year away breather now - the one many players say they regret not taking earlier in their career.

I don't know though. But I think he's shrewd enough to listen to the backroom chat and work out how things might be going for Leinster in the next few years. He's taking his sabatical chance now.

dublin_dave wrote:To be honest i do not really care what happens. We are playing for pride nothing else

Cant understand this type of attitude.

good luck to him. he owes leinster nothing. 3 HC's in 4 years not much else he can do

hope to see him back in a few years. he may not want to play on to 35 and have commercial interests so could benefit from 2 years on silly money.

I personally will not question his motivation

Any and all of those picked for Ireland need to be mentally strong. They need to be able to deal with harsh criticism, as well as praise.
Players at this level should be able to cope with their team mates, or coaches, letting rip at them for screwing things up, and it makes no sense to expect your team mates to tread carefully with you in the heat of the battle.
To be honest I didn't know how Jackson would deal with the pressure at international level. Especially considering the way the likes of that complete muppet Hook have been laying into him, but he is responding as a professional should. He's rising above it, and answering his critics in how he plays.
Earls should be doing the same.

Notch wrote:Afterwards, the game is decided. The points have been scored, the final whistle is blown. Afterwards is too late. If Earls makes another linebreak two minutes later you can be damn sure BOD wants him to know what to do with it.

It's a warzone out there. You need 15 guys switched on and on top of their game, no passengers, and you need guys who react to pressure the right way. So if you screw up and your Captain comes over and issues some hard words, you need to react the right way or face being tossed out on your ear for the next match.

Earls won't need to be told what to do the next time he makes a line break. The chances are though, that he might prefer to play it safe to avoid a public humiliation.

I honestly don't think BOD needed anyone to tell him that he made the wrong decision when he didn't pass to Earls just outside him with a clear run in a metre from the line.

You want your 15 guys on your team presenting a united front - not having a go at each other in front of the opposition.

I fear Leinster will face a bit of struggle over the next two seasons or so before they get back to where they were. There's a lot of pressure on Madigan, they may need to find at least one centre when the backups look pretty average, declining elder scrum halfs and no second rows. Munster were in the same position but good players like Dougall, O'Donnell, Kilcoyne and others have come through the ranks and they are going to be on the up.

Munchkin wrote:Any and all of those picked for Ireland need to be mentally strong. They need to be able to deal with harsh criticism, as well as praise.
Players at this level should be able to cope with their team mates, or coaches, letting rip at them for screwing things up, and it makes no sense to expect your team mates to tread carefully with you in the heat of the battle.
To be honest I didn't know how Jackson would deal with the pressure at international level. Especially considering the way the likes of that complete muppet Hook have been laying into him, but he is responding as a professional should. He's rising above it, and answering his critics in how he plays.
Earls should be doing the same.

Any criticism should be conducted in the match review. The players need to back each other. Jackson might not be so confident if all his team mates and coaches publicly critical of him.

Jackson wouldn't care what Hook says. He might affect him though if BOD (or one of his team mates) lay into him on the pitch for missing a kick.

dublin_dave wrote:good luck to him. he owes leinster nothing. 3 HC's in 4 years not much else he can do

hope to see him back in a few years. he may not want to play on to 35 and have commercial interests so could benefit from 2 years on silly money.

I personally will not question his motivation

Your not placing much faith in Madigan then? Will Sexton want to come back to Leinster and play second fiddle to him?

Sin é wrote:

Jackson wouldn't care what Hook says. He might affect him though if BOD (or one of his team mates) lay into him on the pitch for missing a kick.

Enough, Sin é. You're killing Earls with kindness. If he was listening in, my guess is he wouldn't like it either. He's a man, not a pup. Stop over-analysing and dragging his reputation back to a period when he was a teen going through angst issues.

He's a man. A robust International player of what is one of the toughest physical games on the planet. Stop soft sopping him, he wouldn't appreciate it. He's as strong minded as any of his team mates or as fragile as any of them. He's well able to cope with either.

Sin é wrote:

Your not placing much faith in Madigan then? Will Sexton want to come back to Leinster and play second fiddle to him?

Sexton doesn't play fiddle - he plays Trombone. Thought we've been through all that??

"Any criticism should be conducted in the match review. The players need to back each other. Jackson might not be so confident if all his team mates and coaches publicly critical of him.

Jackson wouldn't care what Hook says. He might affect him though if BOD (or one of his team mates) lay into him on the pitch for missing a kick."

It's hard not to care when you're being publicly, and unjustly, trashed by media hacks, Sin. It's how you deal with that which determines what sort of character you are, and whether you're going to make it at the highest level. Even the best get trounced for having a bad day.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong when team mates let rip at a player for blunders. Just that players on the receiving end should be able to deal with that without it adversely impacting their game. If anything it should be something they use to motivate them on to a higher level.

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Jackson wouldn't care what Hook says. He might affect him though if BOD (or one of his team mates) lay into him on the pitch for missing a kick.

Enough, Sin é. You're killing Earls with kindness. If he was listening in, my guess is he wouldn't like it either. He's a man, not a pup. Stop over-analysing and dragging his reputation back to a period when he was a teen going through angst issues.

He's a man. A robust International player of what is one of the toughest physical games on the planet. Stop soft sopping him, he wouldn't appreciate it. He's as strong minded as any of his team mates or as fragile as any of them. He's well able to cope with either.

He says himself he was very confident when he was a teen

My point is that it is human nature to go into your shell when you are criticised in public and its not rocket science that it doesn't help when your supposed fans also get on the back of their own players for making mistakes. (Though that seems to have passed them by up in Ravenhill - they still don't get why players who couldn't make it in Ulster seem to do ok elsewhere - i.e., Niall O'Connor when he went to Connacht).

redstag i have not been excited by international rugby in general for quite a while. The 6 nations after a great start has been terrible to watch maybe with the exception of England v Italy, no thanks to England

I hope we win but will not be sitting in the pub in my Ireland jersey shouting at the big screen. It is the end of an era and pretty much a dead rubber.

Looking forward to freshening up of the coaching team and the summer/autumn internationals more than Sunday.

SecretFly wrote:Enough, Sin é. You're killing Earls with kindness. If he was listening in, my guess is he wouldn't like it either. He's a man, not a pup. Stop over-analysing and dragging his reputation back to a period when he was a teen going through angst issues.

This. I can't help but feel you're being incredibly insulting towards Keith Earls. You're making him out to be a scared kid without the mental strength to play test rugby.

Sin é wrote:Earls won't need to be told what to do the next time he makes a line break. The chances are though, that he might prefer to play it safe to avoid a public humiliation.

If he's even thinking that way he has no business being in an Ireland jersey.

Enough is enough. If you are right about Earls it's unfair to be publicising the guys weaknesses all over the internet. If you are wrong, you are being highly presumptuous and insulting.

Since beating Wales, Ireland have beaten themselves 3 times.

P.S. You're welcome to Niall O'Connor

t1000advancedprototype wrote:Since beating Wales, Ireland have beaten themselves 3 times.

Pretty much. And its a psychological problem as much as anything.

t1000advancedprototype wrote:Since beating Wales, Ireland have beaten themselves 3 times.

Wouldnt agree with that.

Actually, to be fair, I wouldn't either. England were better than us. Better game plan, better execution.

Against France and Scotland we should have been able to finish them off.

t1000advancedprototype wrote:Since beating Wales, Ireland have beaten themselves 3 times.

Well at least we're in good company. France are still beneath us!! Now who would genuinely have guessed that at the beginning of the season. That Ireland would be figting it out with Italy for nothing but pride...and that coming into the last week, France would even be lower still!!! How bizarre, how bizarre.

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:Earls won't need to be told what to do the next time he makes a line break. The chances are though, that he might prefer to play it safe to avoid a public humiliation.

If he's even thinking that way he has no business being in an Ireland jersey.

Enough is enough. If you are right about Earls it's unfair to be publicising the guys weaknesses all over the internet. If you are wrong, you are being highly presumptuous and insulting.

Earls confidence issues are well publicised by himself*. While its hardly surprising you don't know it, BOD should.

http://www.newstalk.ie/Keith-Earls--Im-just-starting-to-believe-in-myself-now

11:32 Thursday 21 February 2013

Earls is always an engaging talker and in the second half of the interview he talks about his battles with low self-confidence and how he has dealt with the negative thoughts that introduced a self-doubt to his game which was alien to him until he reached his early twenties.

Having reached his mid twenties, and a perhaps earlier than expected role as one of the squad's more senior players, Earls is only now coming out of a period of low confidence that plagued him for several years.“I'm just starting to believe in myself now.”

Well worth listening to the full interview.

.....many players will have had confidence issues, Sin é. You're making Earls into a special case. I repeat, he's a man, he's a rugby player and he's fine. Stop pressurising the issue. That in itself puts burdens on players if they hear it.

If a child falls...most wise parents or guardians don't rush over and cover the child in 'poor dears' and hugs and kisses and fussing with needless bandages. That doesn't produce much only a child who gets afraid of falling. Wise parents pick the child up and laugh and joke as if nothing serious happened just a little shock, that's all. From my experience, the child picks up on the signals and starts laughing themselves shortly after.

Lay off the idea that Earls is overly fragile.

Fly, would you ever listen to the interview first before banging on about Earls being fragile.

My point is that public bollockings reflect poorly on those who deliver them rather than those at the receiving end.

a) it will more than like make the person on the receiving end keep their head down. You will often hear players say after a good victory that 'we played for each other', etc. i.e., a united team effort.

b) Its showing weakness to the opposition.

completely disagree sin e. bod had a pop for spurning a golden chance to get a try in the heat of the moment. he did not come out in the interview and say earls committed a howler.

but opinions are like bumholes we all have them but i find yours absurd in this case.

Your point is that cotton wool is needed in big dollops for some of our players...oh and earplugs too lest they hear the bad stuff from the sidelines, the fans, the comrades, the coaches etc. And that the cliched claptrap of "We all played for each other" is believed anymore. Internet age Sin é. The publicity blurbs don't carry the weight that they used to

So....................Stop (bangin on) about Earl's fragility. You're the one doing it.... all by yourself. If you want it to stop - then stop. Simple.

SecretFly wrote:Your point is that cotton wool is needed in big dollops for some of our players...oh and earplugs too lest they hear the bad stuff from the sidelines, the fans, the comrades, the coaches etc. And that the cliched claptrap of "We all played for each other" is believed anymore. Internet age Sin é. The publicity blurbs don't carry the weight that they used to

So....................Stop (bangin on) about Earl's fragility. You're the one doing it.... all by yourself. If you want it to stop - then stop. Simple.

Did you listen to the interview on Off the Ball (link above)?

dublin_dave wrote:completely disagree sin e. bod had a pop for spurning a golden chance to get a try in the heat of the moment. he did not come out in the interview and say earls committed a howler.

but opinions are like bumholes we all have them but i find yours absurd in this case.

Why didn't someone have a go at BOD for his howler which was even worse?

All its doing is emphasising BOD's lack of composure (or that he was disgusted that Earls knew BOD didn't have the legs to go for it?). That was a long way off from being a try scoring opportunity. Only mistake Earls made was that he was indecisive as to which way he should have gone and that could be down to nothing more than being shifted around from piller to post and not having settled in a position (wing) that he hasn't played in this season for Munster.

Sin é wrote:

Why didn't someone have a go at BOD for his howler which was even worse?

'Cause it would have hurt his soul, Sin é