Madigan v Jackson as back-up 10 for Ireland

At risk of this thread degenerating into a Leinster-Ulster slanging match, there might be some discussion on whether Jackson or Madigan should be the back-up to Jonny Sexton next year.

Putting provincial bias aside, Madigan was one of the few Irish players to emerge with some credit from last weekend's fiasco in Rome and was one of the few Irish players to pose an attacking threat to the Italians. Jackson, apart from kicking his goals, was poor and whether he was following instructions or not, standing 10 metres or more deep from scrums and rucks meant that we never stood any chance of posing an attacking threat. Jackson has, however, been getting regular game time for Ulster but isn't trusted to take the goal kicks except Pienaar isn't playing.

Madigan, in contrast, only starts for Leinster when Sexton is either on international duty or injured, but he will get a lot more game time next season when Sexton is in France. When he does play either from the start or from the bench he is invariably very good, playing flat and getting the back line moving, scoring tries regularly (15 for Leinster in Rabo and HC in past two years) and a consistent goal kicker. Madigan's one weakness might be his line kicking and generally kicking out of hand.

Each one has strengths and weaknesses, but for me Madigan has fewer weaknesses and has aspects to his game that (try scoring) that Jackson doesn't have. This isn't meant to be a putdown of a young player, but Jackson does not inspire confidence and I think Madigan will bring more variety and speed to the 10 position for Ireland. Ulster folk will no doubt disagree but if you do, please detail where you believe Jackson is a superior player to Madigan.

Perhaps there will be more to come from Jackson, but in my mind there isn't much doubt that Madigan has a lot more to his game, for the reasons you have listed.

at the moment for me Madigan looks the more confident of the two players. i think this was evident in the match at the weekend. took the ball up with more confidence and got the ball out wide on a few occassions.

saying that Jackson is still so you and will be a smashing player in his own right.

With a run in the Leinster side I can see the real question being Jackson or Sexton to provide back up for Madigan.

brennomac wrote:When he does play either from the start or from the bench he is invariably very good

No harm to you, but that's nonsense. He was appalling away to the Ospreys. He looked like he had no idea what to do. He looked panicked and lost. He was poor either the game before or after as well - I can't remember details though, so if you want to ignore that, go ahead - I can't back it up sat here at my desk in work. But that Ospreys non-performance was comfortably worse than anything we've seen from Jackson this season.

I would have started Madigan ahead of Jackson for this Six Nations. To be honest, I expect Madigan to take Jackson's place under a new coach. But the hyping and airbrushing of his season is ridiculous.

I know you Leinster guys want him to be brilliant, because you're going to be relying on him next season. And he has a massive amount of talent. But if that's really your take on Madigan, be prepared for a bit of disappointment.

I am a huge Madigan fan and don't want to start going on about all the great traits I believe he has but one thing that terrified me (in a good way) on Saturday is his pace! He took the ball moving so fast and really made defenders "fix". When he runs at the line there is 0 defensive drift.

When you get guys running inside lines and have a deep and flat outside option all of a sudden it becomes VERY difficult to defend against. His passing is so good too that you know he gets the ball to his man very quickly.

Now if he can prove his decision making is up to that kinda game then............wow

Madigan is the most talented of the lot but his game management has to improve. Sexton was only breaking through at 23 years of age so these things take time.

Jackson is a neat footballer and doesn't get the credit he deserves sometimes. He also has to gain experience.

Sexton is still the best of them and will remain in pole position for another year but after that he could be under pressure.


Jackson is the more conservative selection of the two.
If it was Australia or New Zealand they'd pick Madigan
If it was South Africa they'd pick Jackson

Back up? Or mainstay? Has Sexton given a new coach licence to concentrate on the home players?

It's a cruel world but a business one. And if the principle of home advantage is a real one then it should be real for all.

I think both Jackson or Madigan should be given a little more of a stretch than simply bench warming backup. It continues to be important that players get the honour of International duty for what they do for Irish rugby (at Provincial level) rather than just the skills they bring.

But on the topic of backup then (assuming Sexton remains mainstay).... I think it's up in the air. But now that O'Gara looks like being finally set aside, the competition begins and there is probably more candidates now than just Madigan and Jackson. The Provinces must sort it out ... the choices must prove themselves in the seasons that follow. Let the battle commence

If only JJ could get some gametime with Munster then we could have included him in this debate.

I think Jackson has more potential, but he would want to employ his running game a bit more. His distribution has been good, his territorial kicking and line kicking has been good and if he can take it to the line more he'll essentially have the complete package. I thought he was disappointing against Italy but his performances against France and Scotland were highly encouraging. I also think in the last two test matches he's answered questions regarding his goal kicking.

All in all, there's been a lot to indicate Paddy Jackson has what it takes to be Irelands next first-choice outhalf post-Sexton but I think he's been thrown in slightly too soon in his career. I see it doing him nothing but good long-term, but he's concentrating on doing the basics and he's not showing the running game he did at underage level and when he first stepped up for Ulster. This is true at Ulster as well. I think it's very important that his coaches ensure that doesn't fall by the way side. All in all, I think at 21 we're still only seeing a very small fraction of what Jackson can do.

Madigan has that running game, and I would have said he should have been more involved in the Six Nations before it started. Before the Six Nations I wanted to see 1) Sexton 2) Madigan 3) Jackson/Keatley as our 10 pecking order. I very much like the running game and distribution Madigan brings, as well as his pace. Unfortunately that creativity and ability to make something happen seems to be anathema to Kidney. I think Madigan is more developed as a player than Jackson right now, I think he has less potential, but I love watching Madigan play and with ball in hand the guy has talent to burn. I haven't had the opportunity to see Madigan handle games which require mainly territorial kicking due to weather etc. or games where he just has to play the percentages. I don't know how well rounded he is- this isn't a criticism, I genuinely don't know given he isn't getting picked for Leinster beyond in the Pro12 when Sexton is away.

Really hope we get to see a lot of both players in the summer.

SecretFly wrote:Back up? Or mainstay? Has Sexton given a new coach licence to concentrate on the home players?

It's a cruel world but a business one. And if the principle of home advantage is a real one then it should be real for all.

I think both Jackson or Madigan should be given a little more of a stretch than simply bench warming backup. It continues to be important that players get the honour of International duty for what they do for Irish rugby (at Provincial level) rather than just the skills they bring.

But on the topic of backup then (assuming Sexton remains mainstay).... I think it's up in the air. But now that O'Gara looks like being finally set aside, the competition begins and there is probably more candidates now than just Madigan and Jackson. The Provinces must sort it out ... the choices must prove themselves in the seasons that follow. Let the battle commence

Yup...I was thinking that the growing 10 options are one of the few bright lights in these dark,dark days....

We could have Jackson, Madigan, Hanaran and Keatley all battling it out over here next year with old man Sexton playing out his prime years in France. That's a great position to be in.

If we're assuming Sexton will be starting then you have to ask, tactically, who will bring more impact off the bench? I think Madigans speed, distribution and eye for the try line would.

I want attacking impact from the bench. No more ROG coming on to "close out the game".

Feckless Rogue wrote:If we're assuming Sexton will be starting then you have to ask, tactically, who will bring more impact off the bench? I think Madigans speed, distribution and eye for the try line would.

I want attacking impact from the bench. No more ROG coming on to "close out the game".

That is a good point.

Feckless Rogue wrote:If we're assuming Sexton will be starting then you have to ask, tactically, who will bring more impact off the bench? I think Madigans speed, distribution and eye for the try line would.

I want attacking impact from the bench. No more ROG coming on to "close out the game".

Well I was actually assuming Jackson would start....but yes I agree about Madigan's impact off the bench....

I think Jackson needs to start 'owning' games more. He can appear as a link man more than an orchestrator at times. I want to see him run the show.

His kicking and distribution were very accurate against Italy and eng.
Ironically his scotish performance was the best with ball in hand

I had a pretty low opinion of Jackson coming into the 6 Nations, mostly based on last years HC final and my own ignorance in not having watched him much apart from that. And the bits I'd seen I didn't think were particularly impressive.

But I was impressed this 6 Nations. He didn't steal the show or anything but the fact is he held his own in a pivotal position in test level rugby at the age of 21, which is a very good sign. And he showed potential in every facet of his play. At 21 neither Sexton or Madigan were much trusted to start in the Rabo, let alone the HC, let alone internationals.

But Madigan brings more threat to the opposition at the moment I think.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I think Jackson needs to start 'owning' games more. He can appear as a link man more than an orchestrator at times. I want to see him run the show.

His kicking and distribution were very accurate against Italy and eng.
Ironically his scotish performance was the best with ball in hand

hopefully, we'll see that this weekend. He should have taken some confidence from the internationals, the opposition are on a poor run of form, and he's outside Marshall, who takes much less on himself than Pienaar. I do think Ruan stifles PJ by being the general at nine.

What is the most high-pressure game Madigan has played in? (A genuine enquiry.)

Don Alfonso wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I think Jackson needs to start 'owning' games more. He can appear as a link man more than an orchestrator at times. I want to see him run the show.

His kicking and distribution were very accurate against Italy and eng.
Ironically his scotish performance was the best with ball in hand

hopefully, we'll see that this weekend. He should have taken some confidence from the internationals, the opposition are on a poor run of form, and he's outside Marshall, who takes much less on himself than Pienaar. I do think Ruan stifles PJ by being the general at nine.

What is the most high-pressure game Madigan has played in? (A genuine enquiry.)

Probably his start against Montpellier in last season HC? I think that's the only HC he's started?

Feckless Rogue wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I think Jackson needs to start 'owning' games more. He can appear as a link man more than an orchestrator at times. I want to see him run the show.

His kicking and distribution were very accurate against Italy and eng.
Ironically his scotish performance was the best with ball in hand

hopefully, we'll see that this weekend. He should have taken some confidence from the internationals, the opposition are on a poor run of form, and he's outside Marshall, who takes much less on himself than Pienaar. I do think Ruan stifles PJ by being the general at nine.

What is the most high-pressure game Madigan has played in? (A genuine enquiry.)

Probably his start against Montpellier in last season HC? I think that's the only HC he's started?

He started at 15 away in Clermont this year. Had a decent game as well I think.

Both should go in the summer and we will see how they go there. At the minute I would go Madigan but the reality of the situation is that he hasn't had to deal with half the pressure Jackson has yet or the amount of bile that the younger player has had to endure. when we see him operate under that microscope I would be better placed to judge.

If we are thinking longer term my gut feeling is that Hanrahan will be comfortably better than both but that's a bit away. I'm just glad the debate is between two younger guys

Probably the best thing with Jackson is that the media criticism and so on doesn't faze him at all. Thats always encouraging. He's very mentally strong and has a lot of self-belief.

When Madigan did well on Saturday wasn't it playing off Jackson? Madigan didn't stand at 10 so we learnt nothing about him as a fly half.

There are a few things to keep in mind. Jackson is 21. Madigan turns 24 in a couple of days. In comparison in their developments Jackson is miles ahead. How many games of any consequence has Madigan ever played at 10? Irish fans have ridiculously overhyped both Madigan and Hanrahan through medja and fans sites and message boards like this when they haven't shown anything remotely near a high enough level to warrant it. I have seen players at underage level equally as good and they have made absolutely nothing of it. Both players have potential but we need to be realistic about them. Madigan will be in his first season as a proper outhalf in a team in a decline, playing outside one of two very average 9s. Hanrahan may get more chances at Munster but will it be at 10? All the while Jackson will continue to play many games at 10 outside one of the best 9s in the world at he highest level of club rugby. I know which player in the short term I would rather pick.

On Madigan v Jackson, I think the Leinsterman will be a better footballer but Jackson the better outhalf. I can think of three tremendously skilled 10s in Ciprani, Spenser and Cooper, all far more talented than say Sexton or ROG as their contemporaries. All better footballers but none really great 10s at the highest level. Madigan has an awful to prove in this regard.

I am actually pretty positive about Madigan as a player, but yes- its next season he has it all to prove with Leinster and it's brilliant for us he's going to get the chance. I love watching him play. He added some classy touches in an awful performance last weekend.

Jackson will continue to develop. Given how early in his career this has come, I think its silly how critical we are of him. His potential is very, very high.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:When Madigan did well on Saturday wasn't it playing off Jackson? Madigan didn't stand at 10 so we learnt nothing about him as a fly half.

There are a few things to keep in mind. Jackson is 21. Madigan turns 24 in a couple of days. In comparison in their developments Jackson is miles ahead. How many games of any consequence has Madigan ever played at 10? Irish fans have ridiculously overhyped both Madigan and Hanrahan through medja and fans sites and message boards like this when they haven't shown anything remotely near a high enough level to warrant it. I have seen players at underage level equally as good and they have made absolutely nothing of it. .

The thing is Hookisms, they have shown what they can do. Madigan is very talented and was easily Irelands best player against Italy. He sparked the backline into life. Hanrahan was very good in last seasons JWC. He was good then but I've seen him play even better. Neither are the finished product but will improve with game time.

A fine point but how many games in the Rabo have they played? How many European club games have they played in? How many were starts? There is an absolute world of difference between the junior World Cup bad playing international rugby. So, where proper comparisons can be made in terms of international rugby Hanrahan has shown absolutely nothing, Madiagn next to nothing and Jackson nearly a years worth of rugby at the highest club level. He is almost he same age as Hanrahan and three younger than Madigan. Yet they both are portrayed as the next biggest things for Ireland and Jackson as the conservative choice babies by Pienaar. A healthy dose of reality is sorely needed. Madigan did well on Saturday- playing at 12. He showed himself to be a good footballer but a good 10? Hard to do playing as inside centre. He may become the player many people believe he could be playing first choice for Leinster. Lets hope so. But at three years younger than Madigan Jackson is miles ahead in terms of his development.

For conparison look at Conway, Zebo and Gilroy. Conway was the star at underage level. Look at where they are now. Talent is not always enough. Madigan might be a better footballer than Jackson but I have not seen one shread of evidence in big matches he is a better 10. The proof of the pudding will be next season when is is actually playing in his position week in week out.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:How many games of any consequence has Madigan ever played at 10?

How many games of consequence had North or Cuthbert played for their regions? How may games of consequence had O'Driscoll played when Gatland capped him?

Jackson and Madigan both did well with the game time they got. It reinforced my view that we have to put much more trust in youth and shake up selections. And I don't mean throw out older players full stop. But players like Sexton and Heaslip etc. shouldn't be expecting to start as long as they're fit, when we have other capable players.

Wales have kept the invaluable experience of players like Ryan Jones in the squad, but they happily put him on the bench and start younger players, who are more than up to it and it's actually raised Jones game too, when he does get on.

We're limiting ourselves to pretty much the same 15 until injuries force our hand. But it's a 23 man game. Look at how Leinster continuously mixed and matched selections to suit the opposition during their back to back HC's and even more so in their rabo runs. And how they used the bench snatch tight games, but also to completely overwhelm a team on the ropes if they could.

Our youngsters are not shown up at all by these Welsh supermen in the rabo or the HC. So get them in the team, start them at the expense of players with more caps, if they're on form and get the established players worrying about their place in the team (and the size of their next contract if they lose their Ireland place). It's all to comfy for our pampered losers at the moment. But they're all much better than they're showing. We're just not ruthless enough when form dips for far to long and we're terrified of trusting unproven young players unless we absolutely have to.

Feckless indeed, I agree. But there is a difference between playing talented young players with potential and naming them the next big thing. If we are actually going to judge how good player X, Y or Z is the we need to see them at an appropriate level. I don't know for sure but I would suspect North played more games in his position than Madigan or Hanrahan. But for every North there is a Prydie thrown in at the deep end. People are happy to look at the young players who succeed but not that he players who fail.

If someone like Deans or McKenzie was head coach Madigan probably would have started instead of Jackson and no doubt would have excelled. He probably would have played in the autumn too.

Hook, you're right about Jackson, he has travelled further than Madigan career wise and is only 20, and fair play to Ulster for putting their faith in him but he didn't have much standing in front of him. Whereas Madigan has to compete with Sexton for the big games. This is why he hasn't progressed as quickly. As talented as he is, he is not as good as Sexton at this time, maybe he never will be or maybe he'll turn out to be better, next season will tell a lot,

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:When Madigan did well on Saturday wasn't it playing off Jackson? Madigan didn't stand at 10 so we learnt nothing about him as a fly half.

Exactly. Much of Madigan's impact came taking the ball off Jackson at second receiver. He injected pace were there was none but it was Jacksons sleight of hand which created a number of Madigan's breaks.

What Jackson does is quite understated. His short passing game is superb, arguably better than Sextons. He's very solid, releases his runners and importantly doesn't try and do to much or force things...he's remarkably mature for his years. If he had a better goal kicking ratio he'd be the total package.

His goal kicking ratio against Italy was as good as any international 10. The question is, was that a rare good day, or a level he can keep consistant.

We just dont know yet since he's only played three games.

But for being a non-kicker for his club, i think we can all agree that he picked it up pretty well three games down the line...

Also, will Ireland definitely not 'punish' Sexton for leaving? Or are we pretty liberal about players playing abroad?

Has there been any public talk about Sexton's position being safe, or are we assuming? Have we ever had an international playing further away than England before??

Madigan was good on Saturday but as a 12 not as a 10.

He benefited from the quality of ball he got from the 10 ..who was....??

Madigan is an excellent prospect but has not gone ahead of Jackson on the strength of that game.

both absolutely must tour in the summer.

JJ is an exciting prospect but until Munster give a chance he is nothing more - he needs to step into the firing line.
If he waits to long some younger buck will be at his heels like Olding who
is getting plenty of game time. He just might come through and pass the lot.

One thing is for sure Ireland should be well served at 10 and indeed 12 (where you can include Marahall and McSharry as well) for years to come with the 6 names I have mentioned.

With such talent around I cant see Keatley gettign a look in to be honest.

Ireland are reaping the benefits of not allowing Provinces to sign NIQ fly halves in the last few years.

Might just give them the idea of doing in the same in other positions - like TH and lock for example - just a thought.

clivemcl wrote:Also, will Ireland definitely not 'punish' Sexton for leaving? Or are we pretty liberal about players playing abroad?

Has there been any public talk about Sexton's position being safe, or are we assuming? Have we ever had an international playing further away than England before??

You can't punish someone for plying their trade elsewhere. Sexton is perfectly entitled to do whats best for his career.

Practically speaking though if he isn't available outside the IRB windows then that has to harm his selection chances and this presents a great opportunity for the younger, home based players spear headed by Jackson and Madigan to steal a march on him.

Did Trevor Brennan or Jeremy Davidson ever get selected whild playing in France?

Davidson yes
Brennan no

Then again the reason Brennan didn't play was not because he played in France but because the Munster boys effectively said either he goes or we do.

rodders wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:When Madigan did well on Saturday wasn't it playing off Jackson? Madigan didn't stand at 10 so we learnt nothing about him as a fly half.

Exactly. Much of Madigan's impact came taking the ball off Jackson at second receiver. He injected pace were there was none but it was Jacksons sleight of hand which created a number of Madigan's breaks.

What Jackson does is quite understated. His short passing game is superb, arguably better than Sextons. He's very solid, releases his runners and importantly doesn't try and do to much or force things...he's remarkably mature for his years. If he had a better goal kicking ratio he'd be the total package.

I'm not sure Rodders. I like Jackson a lot, those videos on youtube of him miming sealed that! He has great strengths and is so young that he clearly has more potential to realise. His short passing game is great, his tactical kicking is pretty damn good.

I do have some issues with him still.

I do not feel he "controls" games. He did excellently in this regard in Franklin Gardens but I just don't see it from him often enough.
He tends to act as a link man I think. He gets the ball and feeds. It is not really a bad thing but it doesn't do it for me I have to say. I'd like to see him attack the line more rather than sit flat on the line, take the 2/3 steps and release. It really works for Ulster and was never going to in Kidney's Ireland but I'd like to see him challenge the line more as I think he has a good running game.
His defense was not as good as I was hoping at International level. There were a few times where he got run over. I suppose I am used to seeing Johnny who is an anomaly as a 10 regarding defense. Most 10's would have failed to take down Bastereau and Parisse. Maybe I am being harsh here.

I thinmk you are - Jackson is a decent tackling 10 and better than most in that position.

I think so too, just noticed he got run over a few times in the 6Nations. Maybe just part of the step up.

I don't think Brennan got a call up once in France, but he never had the smoothest relationship with the Irish set up anyway and we had poc, doc and Malcolm o Kelly at the time in the second row and ok backrow options.

Sexton will be fine, he's established himself as our no 1 outhalf, and we can't afford to be precious if he chooses to play elsewhere in Europe. I think i read that he will be available for Ireland during international windows.

I thought his defence was the strongest aspect of his game? He effected multiple turnovers with the choke tackle, especially against Scotland.

But I do wish we'd add a few more dance moves than the 'choke' to be honest.

I wouldn't mind but the possession won by it doesn't amount to a hill-of-beans as the first choice after the scrum is the old kick away anyway. So again, it's an automatic defensive setting instead of being yet another attacking setting.

SecretFly wrote:But I do wish we'd add a few more dance moves than the 'choke' to be honest.

I wouldn't mind but the possession won by it doesn't amount to a hill-of-beans as the first choice after the scrum is the old kick away anyway. So again, it's an automatic defensive setting instead of being yet another attacking setting.

I would suggest that Jackson is a man who has shown himself adept at following a structured gameplan hence he fits the IRFUs mould more than Madigan, who falls more into that maverick, instinctive player bracket (a la Reddan, Boss, Paul Marshall, Geordan Murphy etc.) that seems more valued outside Ireland than within.

Thats not a sleight on either player, who I both rate but would see the odds being firmly stacked in Jacksons favour in terms of Irish selection. The onus seems to be on young players proving that they won't screw up and can toe the line rather than showing they can bring something new to the table.

geoff998rugby wrote:Davidson yes
Brennan no

Then again the reason Brennan didn't play was not because he played in France but because the Munster boys effectively said either he goes or we do.

There was an article in the times a few weeks bac, interviewing Brennan. He has a 14 year old son who is 6ft 4 and 19st, playing for his French regional team. Brennan said he would like to see his son represent France!! Brennans wife is also Irish.

I suppose the question is if you were the coach heading to North America who would you start?

Jackson has a lot more experience but then again Mads is going to be first choice for Leinster for much of the remainder of the season.

Jackson has dealt with pressure and reacted well. Again we are going to see how Mads does in the next 3 big games for Leinster.

Mads kicks goals better than Jackson. Will Jackson get to kick for Ulster? If I was Anscombe I'd want Pienaar kicking.

Potential? Who knows!

The answer is easy Pete; we have two games. Rotate them. Give them about equal gametime. If it came down to who has to start, I would favour Jackson to start and Madigan after 50 minutes.

Jackson was kicking pretty well by the end of the 6N and Pienaar has been recuperating an ankle injury so think if Jackson kicks well at the weekend against Edinburgh there's every chance he could keep the kicking duties for the time being. It's always going to be on form between the two of them.

profitius wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Davidson yes
Brennan no

Then again the reason Brennan didn't play was not because he played in France but because the Munster boys effectively said either he goes or we do.

There was an article in the times a few weeks bac, interviewing Brennan. He has a 14 year old son who is 6ft 4 and 19st, playing for his French regional team. Brennan said he would like to see his son represent France!! Brennans wife is also Irish.

I read that. And there was a brilliant anecdote about guy Noves riling up the Toulouse team before they played Northampton. Brennan couldn't understand French at the time but kept hearing his name mentioned. The French guys were getting really riled up and started shouting that they were going to do it for Trevor.

Brennan asked Jauzion, who has fluent English, what was going on. He was told that Noves had just spun a big yarn about how the English had burned Brennan's grandparents out of their home years ago and that they needed to avenge their team mate. Brennan looked at Noves, who just gave him a sly wink. They smashed Northampton.

I'd start Madigan on the tour. Mainly because Jackson is 3 years younger so he has time on his side but also because I'd like to see more of Madigan.

Feckless Rogue wrote:

profitius wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Davidson yes
Brennan no

Then again the reason Brennan didn't play was not because he played in France but because the Munster boys effectively said either he goes or we do.

There was an article in the times a few weeks bac, interviewing Brennan. He has a 14 year old son who is 6ft 4 and 19st, playing for his French regional team. Brennan said he would like to see his son represent France!! Brennans wife is also Irish.

I read that. And there was a brilliant anecdote about guy Noves riling up the Toulouse team before they played Northampton. Brennan couldn't understand French at the time but kept hearing his name mentioned. The French guys were getting really riled up and started shouting that they were going to do it for Trevor.

Brennan asked Jauzion, who has fluent English, what was going on. He was told that Noves had just spun a big yarn about how the English had burned Brennan's grandparents out of their home years ago and that they needed to avenge their team mate. Brennan looked at Noves, who just gave him a sly wink. They smashed Northampton.

Yeah that was good. Noves sounds like a good character.

A lot will depend on form and also who/ or if there is a new coach. Madigan will have three big games with no Sexton, no D'arcy (I think) and no BOD and no Fitz in the back line. That will be a great test for him.

I think rotating them is the right move. I mentioned on the other thread that Schmidt is getting a lot of backing in the media. If he can be tempted will we see more of madigan? Not casting aspersions on the man but its not an unreasonable call either way.

Notch wrote:The answer is easy Pete; we have two games. Rotate them. Give them about equal gametime. If it came down to who has to start, I would favour Jackson to start and Madigan after 50 minutes.

Jackson was kicking pretty well by the end of the 6N and Pienaar has been recuperating an ankle injury so think if Jackson kicks well at the weekend against Edinburgh there's every chance he could keep the kicking duties for the time being. It's always going to be on form between the two of them.

Yeah that is the fair call Notch.

Madigan as outright first choice.

First of all I thought it was disgraceful how O'Shea set out to undermine Jackson with his review. I don't recall him commenting on how far back Sexton stood against South Africa or ROG all his career. Maybe Kidney told Jackson to stand there because that was where Murray was used to passing the ball! What was so hypocritical of O'Shea was that when Jackson came in he was the cheerleader for giving the young guy support for the remaining games.

Of course Kidney should have picked Madigan for the Scotland game, but Deccie obviously bottled it, as he couldn't drop ROG for a second string Leinster 10, but he might just get away with picking the Ulster starter. Thankfully PJ is a resilient player and that is why he will be great.

The coaches obviously see something in Jackson that they don't see in others. He was Ruddock's first choice in the U20s, Humphreys' choice at Ulster (over his brother), and Kidney's choice as backup. The only logical reason is that the coaches see him as someone who delivers their gameplan.

OTOH Madigan looks far more a maverick, with inevitable peaks and troughs in performance. The All Blacks picked Mehrtens over the ridiculously talented Spencer, because they needed his consistency and ability to deliver the plan rather than go off on a whim. Right now Madigan looks far more of a 12 than a 10, but that's not to say with the experience and responsibility that he will get next year (especially with Goperth around) that he could become an exceptional outhalf.

Right now Ireland should go with the more experienced 10 () as back-up - Jackson.