The post-6-Nations Anglo Welsh bickering thread

[Ospreydragon]

First topic message reminder :

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/international/frustrated-england-will-challenge-referee-calls-8541351.html


Thread renamed to match the actual debate taking place

[maestegmafia]

Even though all England fans and press continuously state how Wales thrashing of England a weekend ago in Cardiff was not connected with Referee Walsh.

It appears Walsh has been demoted after England's protestations.

Is Walsh one of the best or one of the worst around...?


Considering George Clancy has not been struck off and Walsh has, this decision seems remarkably blind. Walsh lets the game flow, he minimalists the pedantry we experience from other referees. He accepts the assistance of his touch judges rather than over ruling them.

Until the English protested lastweek post loss, he had been widely considered a reformed man and a referee at the top of his profession.

[bluestonevedder]

What do you mean demoted Maesteg? Can't find anything on him, other than news about him refeering the Lions' opener

[Portnoy's Complaint]

Well maybe David Rose should be eligible as a suitable replacement.

[maestegmafia]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/international/englands-bte-noir-at-six-nations-finale-in-wales-steve-walsh-dumped-by-irb-8550715.html

[Jimpy]

You could probably make it a bit clearer if you wrote it in the same style as that presented on a benefit claim form.

Come on Jumpy - That's all computerised now, no writing required thank god

Mind you the writing was on the wall for you guys last Saturday

At least the England team were able to read it, rumour has it the Welsh lads are still stood there scratching their.... heads.

[bluestonevedder]

thanks Maesteg

[maestegmafia]

You could probably make it a bit clearer if you wrote it in the same style as that presented on a benefit claim form.

Come on Jumpy - That's all computerised now, no writing required thank god

Mind you the writing was on the wall for you guys last Saturday

At least the England team were able to read it, rumour has it the Welsh lads are still stood there scratching their.... heads.

Hmm AW Jones is studying Law, Jamie Roberts just sat his medical exams...!

I have heard Owen Farrell and Tuilagi interviewed not sure if you have

[bluestonevedder]

Credit to Tuilagi, his English has got better since he first came onto the scene.

Farrell is just....from Wigan.

[Jimpy]

You could probably make it a bit clearer if you wrote it in the same style as that presented on a benefit claim form.

Come on Jumpy - That's all computerised now, no writing required thank god

Mind you the writing was on the wall for you guys last Saturday

At least the England team were able to read it, rumour has it the Welsh lads are still stood there scratching their.... heads.

Hmm AW Jones is studying Law, Jamie Roberts just sat his medical exams...!
I have heard Owen Farrell and Tuilagi interviewed not sure if you have

Excellent, you can get them to help you fill out your benefit form then can't you?

[Portnoy's Complaint]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/international/englands-bte-noir-at-six-nations-finale-in-wales-steve-walsh-dumped-by-irb-8550715.html

Baxter has worked a minor miracle with the Devon club, quickly establishing them as a potent Premiership force after their promotion in 2010.

Which is obviously utter tosh.
What brought Exeter to the Pemiership in the first place was the countless man-years of slog and determination of a proper club to climb an extremely greasy pole to get to the top and stay there. That was the minor miracle.

Baxter has managed his side well. But he stands on the shoulders of giants.

Fair dues...

[english warrior]

Maesteg- To Wales, Walsh is a great ref, who handed you that game on a plate.
To us he's that unhinged bloke who doesn't really give us a chance, so a bit of both i'd say.

[Geordie]

Well, maybe the IRb have reviewed some of his performances and think there was an issue?

I think most England fans have been very honest and said that his performance didnt change the result...Wales were superb...

The problem is, that this was not this first time England and Mr Walsh have had run ins. Again most England fans would agree this should not have been done in public...it should have been kept totally behind closed doors...but i think it is fair for England to request a refs performance be investigated...

People can make of that as they will.

My only concern however is the precedent. Whilst im sure EVERY nation asks for referee feedback after a game...i just hope this doesnt lead to wholescale referee complaints.

[Scarpia]

"The Lions Tests against the Wallabies will be controlled by a three-man team comprising Chris Pollock of New Zealand, Romain Poite of France and Craig Joubert of South Africa. Joubert’s performances in the Six Nations were not universally celebrated, but as the leading Springbok official he was always likely to play a significant role in the Lions series."

And the winner of "understatement of the year" is.........................

[Triangulation]

Well, maybe the IRb have reviewed some of his performances and think there was an issue?

I think most England fans have been very honest and said that his performance didnt change the result...Wales were superb...

The problem is, that this was not this first time England and Mr Walsh have had run ins. Again most England fans would agree this should not have been done in public...it should have been kept totally behind closed doors...but i think it is fair for England to request a refs performance be investigated...

People can make of that as they will.

My only concern however is the precedent. Whilst im sure EVERY nation asks for referee feedback after a game...i just hope this doesnt lead to wholescale referee complaints.

+1

100%

Walsh did not affect the result but there is more to it than that!

Still Maesteg has called me a "sore loser" and all manner of other things.

In the same way that Drs are supposed to have good bedside manner, part of being a good ref is your ability to communicate with and relate to players on field. Walsh fails in this respect particularly with England captains. Now that might in part be our captains fault also as part of their job is to relate and communicate with refs.

[Triangulation]

Also Walsh really is a special case. So no precedent is set here. EVEN IF (which i doubt happened here very much) the IRB were completely swayed by England as opposed to an assessment of Walsh over a NUMBER of matches, even IF you think we nobbled him then there just isnt another case like Walsh.

Walsh really is one in a million.

[Portnoy's Complaint]

I'd like to see a senior ex-referee in the pundits room for major RU TV fixtures.

Ideally they'd be rotated lest they just become as slack as Jiffy, Barnes and Guscott etc.

[LordDowlais]

I had a high opinion of both Lancaster and Rowntree as of late, what with the way the beat New Zealand and the way they seemed to turn team England around, now they have gone downwards in my opinion, I hope this is an isolated incident and I hope they are aware of the precedent this may have set, perhaps instead of investigating the ref, they should have investigated their coaching and how they approached the final game, they have both seriously gone down in my opinion.

[Glas a du]

So what if we are all thick benefit scroungers? You were beaten, neigh outclassed, by a bunch of thick benefit scroungers! Feeling better?

[Triangulation]

I had a high opinion of both Lancaster and Rowntree as of late, what with the way the beat New Zealand and the way they seemed to turn team England around, now they have gone downwards in my opinion, I hope this is an isolated incident and I hope they are aware of the precedent this may have set, perhaps instead of investigating the ref, they should have investigated their coaching and how they approached the final game, they have both seriously gone down in my opinion.

1. They are reviewing everything. Lancaster said he would be looking at himself as part of that.

HOW MUCH CLEARER CAN YOU GET THAN THAT??

2. They are perfectly entitled to, in fact obliged to get clarifications otherwise they cannot improve. They are not "investigating" the ref.

3. Rowntree is Lions forwards coach so get behind him. It is important that he understands refs calls for the Lions.

4. Why dont you welsh just let this go? Ridiculous carry on.

[sirtidychris]

They didn't slag off the ref like PDivvy or Warren Gatland would have done, they asked for clarification on his decision making as he made some iffy calls, they genuinely feel the interpretation given by Walsh before the match didn't match his descision making during the match at all. They acknowleged wales were the better team and deserved to win, with england being sub-par, but still they cant allow the team to fall foul of that many scrum and ruck infringements again, especially given that they had been doing well in that area against other very strong scrums with other refs.

They are asking for an explanation, i dont see how this suddenly makes rowntree and lancaster sore, vindicative, losers. If Walsh's decsions were all correct which most non- english people on this board seem to believe was they case then this will be easy enough for Walsh and the IRB to explain and dismiss. IF however Walsh did make a complete balls up of several decisions during the six nations match decider then Rowntree and Lancaster are completly justified in there comments and Walsh should be accountable as everyone else is when they make a hash of things.

[Geordie]

perhaps instead of investigating the ref, they should have investigated their coaching and how they approached the final game

LordD,
Im pretty sure they would have had a major in camp investigation in to the performance of England, the coaching, preparation etc..but in situations like this as mentioned Welsh fans may be swayed with one perspective whilst England fans another.
Lets not turn this into another Wales v England bickering match...im bored with them now

[Morgannwg]

Funny that when England make a complaint the whole world has to stop, listen and take action. Anyone else making a complaint would be sore losers/whingers. Walsh lets the game flow. It should be Joubert going down in the ranks, not Walsh.

Englanders, the only people to come out of a toilet and claim their sh*t doesn't stink.

[LordDowlais]

I had a high opinion of both Lancaster and Rowntree as of late, what with the way the beat New Zealand and the way they seemed to turn team England around, now they have gone downwards in my opinion, I hope this is an isolated incident and I hope they are aware of the precedent this may have set, perhaps instead of investigating the ref, they should have investigated their coaching and how they approached the final game, they have both seriously gone down in my opinion.

1. They are reviewing everything. Lancaster said he would be looking at himself as part of that.

HOW MUCH CLEARER CAN YOU GET THAN THAT??

2. They are perfectly entitled to, in fact obliged to get clarifications otherwise they cannot improve. They are not "investigating" the ref.

3. Rowntree is Lions forwards coach so get behind him. It is important that he understands refs calls for the Lions.
4. Why dont you welsh just let this go? Ridiculous carry on.

As long as he doesn't start to grizzle about the ref if we loose, I actually think Walsh should be appluaded for the game, he would not allow England to pull a fast one in the scrums, and he was right to ping the English players flopping all over the rucks, you lot must have been watching a different game to me as only one team wanted to scrummage properly and it was not England, and if you watch the game again, you will see that almost every ruck has an English player on the wrong side, Wales did not commit as much players into the rucks as England so were less likley to get pinged there. But hey ho, you lot just keep moaning about the ref, it's what you lot used to berate us for after all.

[sirtidychris]

Funny that when England make a complaint the whole world has to stop, listen and take action. Anyone else making a complaint would be sore losers/whingers. Walsh lets the game flow. It should be Joubert going down in the ranks, not Walsh.

Englanders, the only people to come out of a toilet and claim their sh*t doesn't stink.

Morgannwg are you reffering to Wales and the millenium stadium as a toilet ? personnally i thought both are rather nice but you would know more than i would i suppose.

[LordDowlais]

They didn't slag off the ref like PDivvy or Warren Gatland would have done, they asked for clarification on his decision making as he made some iffy calls, they genuinely feel the interpretation given by Walsh before the match didn't match his descision making during the match at all. They acknowleged wales were the better team and deserved to win, with england being sub-par, but still they cant allow the team to fall foul of that many scrum and ruck infringements again, especially given that they had been doing well in that area against other very strong scrums with other refs.

They are asking for an explanation, i dont see how this suddenly makes rowntree and lancaster sore, vindicative, losers. If Walsh's decsions were all correct which most non- english people on this board seem to believe was they case then this will be easy enough for Walsh and the IRB to explain and dismiss. IF however Walsh did make a complete balls up of several decisions during the six nations match decider then Rowntree and Lancaster are completly justified in there comments and Walsh should be accountable as everyone else is when they make a hash of things.

That is just a clever way of slagging off and blaming the ref and you know it.

[Morgannwg]

You could probably make it a bit clearer if you wrote it in the same style as that presented on a benefit claim form.

Come on Jumpy - That's all computerised now, no writing required thank god

Mind you the writing was on the wall for you guys last Saturday

At least the England team were able to read it, rumour has it the Welsh lads are still stood there scratching their.... heads.

Hmm AW Jones is studying Law, Jamie Roberts just sat his medical exams...!
I have heard Owen Farrell and Tuilagi interviewed not sure if you have

Excellent, you can get them to help you fill out your benefit form then can't you?

Your material is really old now, and it was never at any single point, even remotely funny.

english warrior is pretty amusing though.

[GunsGerms]

Walsh was one without doubt one of the better refs of the 6N. Surprising decision.

[Morgannwg]

Funny that when England make a complaint the whole world has to stop, listen and take action. Anyone else making a complaint would be sore losers/whingers. Walsh lets the game flow. It should be Joubert going down in the ranks, not Walsh.

Englanders, the only people to come out of a toilet and claim their sh*t doesn't stink.

Morgannwg are you reffering to Wales and the millenium stadium as a toilet ? personnally i thought both are rather nice but you would know more than i would i suppose.

Clearly not. I was just talking about the arrogant English phsyche. Wanna know what else I know? I also know that Wales are the back to back champs. England are chumps. Twice going for the Slam and twice thrashsed, how much more mugged off can you get?

[RubyGuby]

Anyways, enough of this bickering - did you enjoy the game Jimpy?

[Morgannwg]

Walsh was one without doubt one of the better refs of the 6N. Surprising decision.

Did he not officiate Ireland vs Wales in 2012? I thought that was another great game, which he allowed to flow very well. Rowntree has no empathy for the game, it's all penalty tries and kicks at goal with him.

[Morgannwg]

Jimpy disapeared for a while after saturday. I was certain he wasn't coming back.

[RubyGuby]

Did the Jimp Jump

[Geordie]

Funny that when England make a complaint the whole world has to stop

Thats because we're an important powerhouse of a country....

[Morgannwg]

Funny that when England make a complaint the whole world has to stop

Thats because we're an important powerhouse of a country....

Such arrogant English, oh em geeeee!

[Sgt_Pooly]

Funny that when England make a complaint the whole world has to stop, listen and take action. Anyone else making a complaint would be sore losers/whingers. Walsh lets the game flow. It should be Joubert going down in the ranks, not Walsh.

Englanders, the only people to come out of a toilet and claim their sh*t doesn't stink.

Morgannwg are you reffering to Wales and the millenium stadium as a toilet ? personnally i thought both are rather nice but you would know more than i would i suppose.

Clearly not. I was just talking about the arrogant English phsyche. Wanna know what else I know? I also know that Wales are the back to back champs. England are chumps. Twice going for the Slam and twice thrashsed, how much more mugged off can you get?

Great comment

Back to the thread.....

Walsh CAN be a good ref but he tends to get too involved and often makes things personal against players/teams. Wales without doubt played him better and they were without doubt the better team. Most 50/50 call they got, it's hard to get any momentum when you're up against that.

An example of this is when the scrum when getting set and Youngs moved his left foot. Walsh told him to not move once set and Youngs(probably due to lack of experience) questioned his remark. As soon as the hit came in Walsh blew up for a Welsh penalty and made it rather theatrical, a bit like..."you mess with me and this is what happens" type attitude.

You cannot take away the performance of the Welsh team, but Walsh does have some kind of problem with the English.

We'd have still lost no matter who the ref I'd like to add.

[GunsGerms]

Walsh was one without doubt one of the better refs of the 6N. Surprising decision.

Did he not officiate Ireland vs Wales in 2012? I thought that was another great game, which he allowed to flow very well. Rowntree has no empathy for the game, it's all penalty tries and kicks at goal with him.

No that was Wayne Barnes who has a dreadful record of bias against Ireland. Irelands win ratio in wayne Barnes matches in apauling. coincidence?

[R!skysports]

Funny that when England make a complaint the whole world has to stop, listen and take action. Anyone else making a complaint would be sore losers/whingers. Walsh lets the game flow. It should be Joubert going down in the ranks, not Walsh.

Englanders, the only people to come out of a toilet and claim their sh*t doesn't stink.

I certainly agree with that, as that performance had a bigger impact on the Scotland vs Wales game than Walsh did in the Wales vs England game

[Sgt_Pooly]

I think there is a few countries with a dislike of Barnes Guns, he's not great.

[Morgannwg]

Walsh was one without doubt one of the better refs of the 6N. Surprising decision.

Did he not officiate Ireland vs Wales in 2012? I thought that was another great game, which he allowed to flow very well. Rowntree has no empathy for the game, it's all penalty tries and kicks at goal with him.

No that was Wayne Barnes who has a dreadful record of bias against Ireland. Irelands win ratio in wayne Barnes matches in apauling. coincidence?

Oh yeah I remember now. Walsh took charge of England vs Wales, another game where they were completely outclassed and then they tried to claim a non-try.

[Geordie]

We'd have still lost no matter who the ref I'd like to add..

Or would we Sarge..that is the question...a biased referee...makes this championship finale a bit second rate...i wouldnt want to win with that cloud hanging over it..

[sirtidychris]

Have to agree that watching england lose the grandslam in the last game against Ireland in 2011 and Wales in 2013 was hard viewing, but i know we are progressing and in 2011 and 2013 both celtic teams came out possessed and played with a crazy level of intensity, almost certainly because they were playing their arch enemies england at home with a chance to ruin the grand slam for them/ win the title themselves. The same happened several times before the world cup win in 2003, these loses whilst horribly painfull galvanise our squad and prepare us for RWC rugby. Losing against the welsh may be the making of our team so i'm still feeling rather positive. The arrogant england thing is always bandied around and we know we are not liked by almost every rugby nation (more to do with geography and political history rather than actual character traits of players and fans) however everyone is always looking for any reason to attack our team and fans but once again this just galvanises us and forces us to be better and just makes winning all the more sweeter. I'll take these loses, but come 2015 at twickenham thats the one that really matters !

[dragonbreath]

As long as he doesn't start to grizzle about the ref if we loose, I actually think Walsh should be appluaded for the game, he would not allow England to pull a fast one in the scrums, and he was right to ping the English players flopping all over the rucks, you lot must have been watching a different game to me as only one team wanted to scrummage properly and it was not England, and if you watch the game again, you will see that almost every ruck has an English player on the wrong side, Wales did not commit as much players into the rucks as England so were less likley to get pinged there. But hey ho, you lot just keep moaning about the ref, it's what you lot used to berate us for after all. [/quote]

Exactly. But what would happen if anyone else in the NH complained about the ref, and there have been plenty to complain about (ask France and Scotland about Joubert, France and Scotland didn't urine and moan like spoiled children by the way. England take note). NOTHING. The IRB cower in the face of SH playing supremacy and the financial might of England and it is . Now that Lancaster has tried this with success will he become our Fergie. Influencing results and Refs by his inferred power to damage their careers.

Scarey thought

[Guest]

Isn't this thread supposed to be about the competencies of Walsh rather than playground banter ?

I would have thought the potential sidelining of the main Oz ref on the IRB panel for the forthcoming 4N tournament is astounding.

Is this the result if the IRBs own standard assessment or for the conspiracy theorists out there in keyboard warrior land - Rowntree's clarification request or perhaps both ?

I am not holding out for any sensible views.....but enjoy.

[bluestonevedder]

Why are England getting the blame for this?

The IRB have decided to demote him, not England. Geeeeeeeeez.

[Sgt_Pooly]

Morg...do you ever post anything sensible? Or do you just have to have a pop every time?

It's pretty boring tbh

[Geordie]

Eddie

Any excuse to have a go at us is taken without question...just keep calm...we'll have our day again and they will hate it...

[jelly]

If the English had as much influence as some are claiming then Walsh would never have been on the list in the first place and he certainly wouldn't have been refereeing a game involving England.

Maybe they've decided that he needs a short time out of the spotlight before unleashing him on his adoring rugby public for the Autumn internationals. I'd be extremely surprised if this was based solely on one performance; have a little dig and you will find he had been receiving far from glowing reviews down under, including some from non-Englanders.

[Morgannwg]

Pooly, don't take it so seriously.

[Sgt_Pooly]

Let's have a cheerful post Morg....you can do it.

No English/Irish baiting though

[Jimpy]

Jimpy disapeared for a while after saturday. I was certain he wasn't coming back.

Been abroad with work - you know, work? Ah, scrub that, you wont know will ya?

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