606v2 Top 15 Pound for Pound rankings (please submit VOTES)

First topic message reminder :

It's time to vote for the 606V2 POUND FOR POUND Top 15 rankings (Q1 2013).

Rules:
-Only 1 post per 606 member.
-Only active fighters allowed (must of fought in the last 18 months unless officially retired eg Shane Mosley)
-Outlandish listing’s will be DQ.
-A fighter needs two individual votes to have his points included.

Principles:
Your Top 15 should be based as at the current point in time.

Point Scoring System:
Quite simple, #1 scores 15 points, #2 scores 14 points etc… I will tally up the totals by the deadline date and will present the results.

NOTE: PLEASE TRY AND USE FULL NAMES (or correct surnames) & LIST your results.

For reference only, the previous Top 15 606v2 P4P rankings as at 12th December 2012 was:


1 Floyd Mayweather Jr. (1)
2 Andre Ward (4)
3 Nonito Donaire (5)
4 Juan Manuel Marquez (3)
5 Sergio Martinez (6)
6 Wladamir Klitschko (7)
7 Manny Pacquiao (2)
8 Timothy Bradley (11)
9 Adrien Broner (16)
10 Carl Froch (10)
11 Yuriorkis Gamboa (8)
12 Abner Mares (18)
13 Robert Guerrero (New)
14 Canelo Alvarez (17)
15 Vitali Klitschko (13)


Thanks as always, this usually brings up terrific results.

The gap between Mayweather and Marquez is huge, their fight proved an awful lot, it wasn't the size that was the determining factor it was speed and skill, two aspects Marquez simply couldn't deal with. The actual size difference between the two I don't think is that big, Mayweather weighed in at 150lbs on the night against De La Hoya while Marquez weighed in at 144lbs on the night in the second Pacquiao fight.

What do you mean that version of Cotto? He was a defending world champion who going into the fight had two losses one of which is highly debated.

Ortiz wanted a dirty fight the moment he headbutted Floyd so it was a fully legitimate knockout.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:The gap between Mayweather and Marquez is huge, their fight proved an awful lot, it wasn't the size that was the determining factor it was speed and skill, two aspects Marquez simply couldn't deal with. The actual size difference between the two I don't think is that big, Mayweather weighed in at 150lbs on the night against De La Hoya while Marquez weighed in at 144lbs on the night in the second Pacquiao fight.

What do you mean that version of Cotto? He was a defending world champion who going into the fight had two losses one of which is highly debated.

Ortiz wanted a dirty fight the moment he headbutted Floyd so it was a fully legitimate knockout.

Cotto had so much wear and tear going into the fight, him being a defending champion means nothing now, sure he was a decent fighter but way past it.

Ortiz, like i said probably got what he deserved, but that was a cheap shot by floyd, it was a legal Knock out victory but showed nothing about floyd's ability as a fighter.

Also that fight was over over 3 and half years ago, floyd has declined since, he isnt the same fighter, JMM is a better fighter at the division now than what he was then (I still think he would lose to floyd).

Is he actually any better or is it just that he's facing a guy every man and his knows he can trouble?

Cotto was in decline but way past his best no he was not, people seem to struggle to distinguish between being in decline and having nothing left, Mosley for instance has nothing left to offer whereas Cotto is simply in decline capable of still beating most out there.

Your saying when was last time floyd fought a top P4P fighter Marquez and mosley wher both ranked number 3 when floyd beat them

The thing with Floyd and Manny is Floyd always takes on a fighter who has just had a standout win.

Manny ends up fighting fighters who have either struggled in their previous fight or lost.

Hatton ( ruined by Mayweather, struggled with Lascano)
Cotto ( struggled with Clottey)
Clottey (Beat by Cotto)
Margarito (Struggled with some journeyman)
Marquez (Mayweather, beat Katsidas & Diaz which are not stand out wins)
Mosely (shown up by Mayweather/woeful draw with Mora)
David Diaz (again, struggled with unknown Montano)

Floyd's opponents all came to the fight with him on the back of fantastic wins.

Hatton (undefeated with a string of notible wins Kosta, Castillo etc)
Mosely (destruction of Margarito)
Ortiz (amazing heart to beat Berto who was undefeated)
Marquez (only one I would dispute due to the weight stips, but 2 years lay off, still a decent win)
Cotto (winning a belt at 154 and defending it a few times, getting revenge on Margartio being a stand out win)
De La Hoya (World champ at light middle, beat Mayorga which was a decent win at the time)

And now Guerrero who has moved up to Welter with 2 pretty impressive victories.

Mannys only ballsy move has been against Bradley, and he officially has a loss on his record for that.

So Floyds level of opponents cannot be questioned, as they always come into the fight on a high.

Mannys are like lambs to the slaughter

Hatton was coming off a good win against Malignaggi. Don’t really see the logic in Cotto being a tougher fight for Mayweather than Pacquiao. If Mayweather ruined Hatton then Pacquiao ruined Cotto.

Clottey and Mosley were the only poor opponents Pacquiao has faced in recent years for me. His career speaks for itself in terms of taking on challenges and tough fights.

Aye, that's a bit of a biased take on it for my money, Reborn. You can't slam Manny for taking on Cotto because he struggled past Clottey and then also slam him for taking on Cotto because he lost to Cotto! Looks as if Manny can't really win in your eyes no matter what he does.

How many better career wins and performances does Hatton have than the Malignaggi one which came right before Pacquiao flattened him? Pacquiao fought a better, younger version of Cotto and still did a better job on him than Mayweather. Barrera was in great form, one of the best pound for pound fighters on the planet by popular acclaim and had some good career moments after that first Pacquiao fight, too, but Manny gave him a right old chasing.

I don't see why we can't have a bit of consistency when directly comparing the pair of them.

Well fighting Cotto at 145, after he had been struggling against Clottey and got wiped out by brick fists was a good time to catch him.

Cotto moves up to a more comfortable weight, has good performances (apart from Foreman whos knee fell apart), but the revenge against Marg looked to give him a fresh look.

I would argue that the Cotto that faced Mayweather was better mentally and physically than when Manny got him at a catchweight for Cottos own 147 belt.

I honestly don't see how anyone could argue that Mayweather's win against Cotto should read more impressively than Manny's. The only way you can argue that Floyd's was better is if you employ some shocking double standards, which is what you're doing here Reborn, as far as I can see.

How was Cotto better physically when he fought Mayweather than when he boxed Cotto? On the basis of his 'stand out' win over Margarito? Well, Tony had subsequently been thrashed by Mosley and Pacquiao since he clubbed Cotto in to submission - how can that win be of any significance from your point of view when you're bemoaning Pacquiao's win against Hatton because Ricky had been 'ruined' by Mayweather?

Looks like one rule for Floyd and a different one for Manny in my eyes.

For me, Cotto's win at Welter against Clottey is more significant and impressive than anything he did at Light-Middle before facing Mayweather. Cotto was actually doing a very good job against Clottey before THAT cut, understandably, forced him to go in to negative mode; he'd become the only man (I think) to have ever put Clottey over in the first round and was looking well placed for a convincing victory. He still won the fight regardless in the end, albeit it was a tight one. Clottey at least had some decent form going in to that fight.

The catchweight, I'm sure, made no difference. Considering that Pacquiao had been fighting at Super-Featherweight just over a year and a half beforehand, does anyone really think that 145 suited him more than Cotto? It's not as if Miguel was ever a particularly big Welterweight, and he'd been 146 for his previous two fights there. Pacquiao was just the better fighter

If you wanted to be as overly harsh on Mayweather as you're being on Pacquiao, you could point out that he also took on Judah when he was coming in off a loss, went for an easy, basically worthless title at 140 lb against Gatti when he could have taken the tougher option of Tszyu, and so on and so on. As I said, whenever Mayweather and Pacquiao are directly compared, the majority seem to think they have to pick a 'side' and bend their arguments accordingly. Why not just be consistent?

I don’t really think light middleweight is a better weight for Cotto. He moved up because there was a title shot against a beatable opponent when he had no real options left at 147.

If the overall point is that Mayweather has better timing selecting opponents then I would agree. But he fights only half as much as Pacquiao so you would expect that. I just don’t really see the need for having to go overboard to make the point. Like for example just leaving out the Malignaggi win for Hatton and saying he was ruined by Mayweather and struggled with Lazcano. Yes but he then went on to look good against Malignaggi and had many people saying it was one of the best performances of his career.

Or using Cotto’s win over Margarito as evidence of a good win and then dismissing Pacquaois destruction of Margarito by insinuating Margarito was past it. Or leaving out Pacquaio jumping 2 weights to face de la Hoya. Fair enough, the win meant little due to de la Hoya’s condition but at the time it was a big risk and Pacquaio was the underdog.

I only use Margarito in Cottos case because throughout the years after he gave him that awful pasting, Margarito took something from Cotto.

Even in the build up the way Tony was gloating and getting into Cottos head, I think the victory was great in the sense that mentally he got his own back.

The Manny one was brutal and fantastic viewing as Margarito deserved every punch he got that night for his previous sins.

Again, the Cotto win was for me better in a sense that the score was settled and the demons to some degree were gone.

KO-KING wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:
Well I wouldnt say Mayweather has not fought anyone of significance. Cotto was a strong opponent, if not as good as Pacquaio.

When it comes down to it, I just dont really see the point of ranking a guy number 1 when you dont think he is. I dont see saying saying Mayweather is number 1 is simplistic. If anything, Im rating him number 1 after all things are considered. Yes JMM recent win over Pacquiao was a quality win but its just not enough to convince me JMM is number 1 or even 2 or 3 for that matter.

Mayweather would beat JMM, but he is still bigger and holds the stylistic advantage, Cotto was so past it, everyone who didnt buy into the HBO + Mayweather/Cotto - crap about miguel being rejuvenated could see it, he wasn't that could, not P4P top 10, I think JMM is number one in terms of recent win, let me put it this way, I think Lucas beats garcia, but I dont rate Mathysse over Garcia, because of the simple fact that Garcia has the better win in Khan.

Diamond in the rough wrote:I think cotto would beat Marquez

twice his size, he should do

Well he's not he could probably still make 147