Lancaster's 2012 Summer Bolters - What might we see in 2013?

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For the summer tour of South Africa last year, Stuart Lancaster took 14 uncapped players. Before reviewing which uncapped players may be going to Argentina this summer, lets just look at the progress, or lack of, made by last year's uncapped bunch.

Tom Youngs
Quite possibly the most controversial selection at the time having not started a single premiership match at hooker. Youngs shared the midweek duties with fellow bolter Joe Gray. A good start to the premiership season with Leicester plus injury to Dylan Hartley saw him earn his first cap against Fiji in the autumn. Intermittent issues with his throwing, and concerns over his short stature have been counterbalanced by his all action approach. An outside chance of touring with the Lions, Tom Youngs has started 8 of the 9 internationals since the summer tour and has shown just why Lancaster took a risk on him..

Joe Gray
As stated above, shared midweek duties with Youngs. Whilst he seems to have firmly established himself as first choice at Quins this season (starting 18 of 20 premiership matches) and featured for the Saxons, Quins fans have started to call for him to be replaced by Rob Buchanan.

Joe Marler
Made his test debut on the Summer tour, featuring in all 3 matches. While he has yet to bring his all action game to the test arena, he has still managed to earn 10 caps. He is still learning his craft and will face major competition for further caps from Alex Cobisiero and Mako Vunipola, but we can expect to see him well in the mix as we head towards RWC 2015.

Rupert Harden
Replaced the injured Matt Stevens ahead of departure to SA, was on the bench for the midweek games. Injury denied him the chance to feature for the Saxons this season, while a further injury in March is probably season ending.

Graham Kitchener
Another controversial decision, Kitchener has looked very good at Tigers this season for whom he has made 16 starts in AP and HEC this season. He appeared in both Saxons matches this season to remain very much in Lancaster's plans, yet as the climax of the season approaches may have been overtaken by Ed Slater.

Joe Launchbury
Flew out to South Africa with the squad, but was unable to recover from a knee injury sustained during pre-tour training and was replaced by Jamie Gibson. Made his test debut off the bench against Fiji and a further bench appearance against Australia before making his full debut against SA. 6 further starts have followed, and he was one of England's best players in the 6Ns. Another with an outside chance of making the Lions tour.

George Robson
The fourth uncapped 2nd row to go on tour, he captained the midweek team and played in both Saxons matches this season. Still young enough to make a test debut you just get the feeling that he is unlikely to ever feature prominently for England.

Thomas Waldrom
Made his debut from the bench against SA before securing the starting berth for the 3rd (drawn) test. Two more starts in the first two AIs have since been followed by a solitary bench appearance against Italy. A figure of fun and almost universally despised by England fans, he is also a cult hero at Welford Rd. You woul dthink he is unlikely to feature heavily in Lancaster's future plans.

Carl Fearns
Despite looking not quite fit ( an accusation that could be levelled at several up and coming back row forwards) he made a promising impression in the mid-week matches. Injuries and doubts over his best position continue to slow the expected development. He will hope to be going to South america, but the rise of players like Kruis, Fraser, Wallace and Billy Vunipola will mean he needs a strong close to the season.

Tom Johnson
5 consecutive starts beginning with the 1st test in SA were reward for slogging his way through the junior levels. Unlikely to feature much in the future.

Jonathan Joseph
The young centre appeared in all 3 tests in SA, initially from the bench. A 4th cap as a replacement in the win over NZ was his last appearance in the white of England. Career has faltered in 2013 with most of his appearances at FB since turn of the year and no starts for a couple of months. He will hope that the move to Bath revitalises things, and that Lancaster has not forgotten him.

George Lowe
Appeared on the wing in one midweek match, he will have been disappointed in the way his 12/13 season has panned out. Injuries and iffy form have seen him make just 9 starts for Quins in 27 AP/HEC matches.

Christian Wade
Looked good on attack in the midweek games, notching a hat-trick in the first. Lancaster and Farrell may have taken more notice of his defensive naivety. The England management's pre-occupation with defence has as yet seen this fine talent fail to gain a cap. Hopefully that will be rectified this Summer - unless he goes to Australia.

Alex Goode
Coming off the bench in the 2nd test to replace the unfortunate Mike Brown, he has started every test for England since. An intelligent footballer, he has divided fans opinion since. Mike Brown, perhaps the best FB in the AP over the last two years, has had to move to the wing - a move that many are not happy with. Ironic really but it may be that Goode does not quite have the pace needed to thrive at international level. Continued strong performances for Sarries will see him in the England team for some time to come however.


Jonny May and Jamie Gibson were two further uncapped players called up during the tour.


Summary
Of the 14 uncapped players to tour SA, 5 made test appearances on that tour and another 2 were capped first in the AIs. Four of them have become regulars for England since then. Most notably with Youngs and Launchbury, Lancaster has shown that he is not scared of trusting inexperienced players. He does however seem to prefer defensive shape over attacking flair. Some of these guys have clearly slipped down the pecking order - and may struggle to make this summers tour.


2013 summer Tour Wildcards
My predictions as to some of the uncapped faces we can expect to see in South America:

Henry Thomas
The young Sale tighthead would have been favoured to tour even without the injury to Harden. He trained with the EPS this season and with cole probably Australia bound should be challenging David Wilson for the test berth.

Ed Slater
Has spent much of the season behind Kitchener at Tigers, but recent performances have moved him right into the spotlight. Both tigers young guns may travel.

George Kruis
Capable of playing second row and back row, the sort of player Lancaster likes. Main problem will be to secure a starting berth at Sarries, though that did not prevent Lancaster taking risks with Youngs and Kitchener last year.

Calum Clark
A Lancaster favourite. If fit he will travel.

Matt Kvesic
Covers 8 and 7 with equal applomb. Has moved ahead of Carl Fearns and will probably travel.

Will Fraser
Fantastic season for Sarries. Probably tourist irrelevant of Gatland's selections.

George Ford
Not been a good season for the young man, but with Owen Farrell probably on the way to Australia can expect to tour.

Kyle Eastmond & Joel Tomkins
At least one, and probably both of these former RL stars will tour.

Jonny May
Offers real pace. Shone in his replacement midweek appearance last year. Will be joined by fellow speedster Wade if he does not become a Lion.

Elliot Daly
Was left out of the JWC last summer for strength and conditioning training. Is he a centre or a FB. Not sure though England seem to see him as a FB. Pace, big boot, good hands and an eye for the gap. Could be a real star in the making.

LondonTiger wrote:I am happy with a Parling/Launchbury type second row - but would want Morgan/BillyV at No8.

We have seen Lancaster's biggest weakness as a selector in both the back row and the Back 3. He hates leaving players out who have done nothing wrong. Tom Wood is not a no8, Mike Brown is not a winger. they are plenty good enough to play for England - but it should be in their real positions.

Lancaster has still got some credit in the bank with me, but if he continues picking Brown as a winger for the foreseeable future I will start to get fed up. Just thinking of the names that could come in and potentially make a difference is getting frustrating.

Jonny May
Christian Wade
Charlie Sharples
Adam Thompstone

Or

Tom Varndell
Ugo Monye

Not to mention younger guys like Jack Nowell, Marland Yarde or Jamie Elliott.

His decision with Wood I have a little more sympathy with because we aren’t exactly awash with talented no.8’s, but he’s tried it now and it didn’t work. Now he should surely be able to see that even an unfashionable number 8 like Jordan Crane, Thomas Waldrom (and dare I whisper it) Nick Easter would be better than playing Tom Wood there.

Well said Marra...

bluestonevedder wrote:The stats show that they are both pretty contrasting locks. Attwood carrying stats and defenders beaten are very good. Kitchener makes big carries and is better in open play. Can't believe he had a kick from hand?!

You should have seen Launchburry's kick from hand in one of the Wasps games this year. It was a peach, on the run and chased up a treat. He really is a superb talent in the SR and whilst he does need to fill out a bit more it would be a shame for him to lose out due to lacking the bulk. As a 5 he'd be a world beater. As a 4 he needs a bit more go forward but i'm sure it'll come.

In response to your question GF it's by no means a given that a heavyweight pack leads to dominance. Look at Northampton for most of the season. Also Glaws have had a much heavier pack this season with Savage/Hamilton in the SR with Kalamafoni/Qera/Morgan in the BR. That's a seriously heavy duty back 5 but have been beaten by much more lightweight teams.

I thinks it's both about balance and technique. Lancs seems to go completely down the route of technique. I don't think most of us would've picked a back 5 for the Wales game of Launchburry, Parling, Crfot, Robshaw, Wood. Who there does the carrying? Lancs seems to think that get the speed and technique right both off the line and at the breakdwon and you allow these light-weight runners into a more open space. The reality is it doesn't always work like that and the opposite may be said of a really heavyweight pack.

The key is balance and adaptability. Quins usually have a good balance in their pack, likewise Leicester. Sarries seem to have had less so I would say but currently look good.

Augmenting England's pack should be a heavyweight SR (Slater/Attwood etc) a heavyweight BR player (Morgan/Vunipola) and I would like to see Kvesic come in at 7. He carries as well as anyone and is a good breakdown player. I'm steering clear of calling for a 'fetcher' type but his work around the park is exceptional. I would also like us to stick with Vunipola in the front row. We can't have an entire front row if we're playing Hartley who can't carry the ball properly.

Thus my pack going forward without making too many radical changes would be:

1. M Vunipola
2. T Youngs
3. D Cole
4. E Slater
5. G Parling
6. T Wood
7. M Kvesic
8. B Morgan

16. D Hartley 17. A Corbisiero 18. D Wilson 19. J Launchburry 20. B Vunipola

That to me has some good balance about it. Too harsh on Robshaw I would agree but if you take a look at Wood's games for England from SA to Italy his work rate and competitiveness at the breakdow plus open play carries have been just sensational. He is a player I would pick at 6 even ahead of Croft who I rate as top class.

Chjw131, Like it. Think Corbs should be the starter with Mako coming on when the game opens up a bit. Feels harsh on Launchbury again as he's been terrific but it does look a balanced pack.

I'm hoping that Lindsay or Buchanan comes along well this summer so that Hartley can be phased out; he hasn't improved as I thought he would.

Not much being said about Luther Burrell at Saints. He seems to be having a very strong finish to the season which, if it continues, could easily get him on the plane to South America.

Possible jelly, but you have Twelvetrees, Eastmond, Tomkins pushing hard and Allen has been back to his best for Leicester recently so maybe too much competition?

Great analysis CHJW, and your absolutely correct. Irrelevant of who goes to Argentina and what players come out of that with honours...i think for the AI's id like to see something like:

1 Corbs
2 Youngs
3 Cole
4 Attwood / Slater / Garvey etc (A mobile powerhouse)
5 Launchbury
6 Croft / Wood
7 Robshaw
8 Morgan

True but depends how many he wants to take and he is certainly a different style of player to each of those mentioned. More of a power centre in the Will Greenwood mould (joke).

Yeah Burrell seems to be playing well...but i think 36 will be the starter in Argentina...as i cant see Barritt going to Oz..and probably being given the summer off to recharge.

The problem with Burrell is that he doesn't seem to have any passing game at all from what I have seen. It's all very heads down HULK SMASH! It would simply be another way of cutting our outside backs out of the game as an attacking force.

It would simply be another way of cutting our outside backs out of the game as an attacking force..

And we already have Farrell and Barritt to do that

Know what you mean but doesn't seem to have done Northampton's wingers much harm in recent weeks.

Agree that Twelvetrees should start but be interesting to see who goes as back up.

Can SL pick who he wants for this tour? Or is he restricted to who the back ups are in the current Saxons squad?

I imagine mostly EPS'ers / Saxons with Lions call ups allowed to be replaced...and injuries.

I notice that Mark McCall has been shouting up Mako Vunipola for the Lions...saying as a LH his impact skills could offer something totally different.
Interesting. I dont think i'd have him in the lions...certainly not over even Corbs at the moment if he were fit.

Do you think he has now moved ahead of Marler though..and will start in Argentina. Why is marler struggling to bring his carrying game to top international level. Do you think he still could...

Not yet, but he could in the near future. It depends upon how Mako's scrummaging improves over the coming season. If he continues at his current rate I could easily see him overtaking Marler. But Corbisiero would still be first choice in my opinion. Either way it isn't a bad problem to have Corbisiero, Vunipola and Marler.

I think Marler is struggling with his carrying because he is still acclimatising to international rugby. He seems like he is just concentrating on getting the basics right at the moment.

I think Marler is trying to work on his tight game - scrum/mauls - following criticism of this, to the detriment of his carrying game. Vunipola looks a real talent in the loose, but it wasn't just his scrummaging technique that let him down, but his desire. I thought he did ok in the 1st half against Ireland, but in the first 3 scrums of the 2nd half he just capitulated and got hauled off around the 44th minute mark - obviously not a planned substitution, but a response to his poor effort.

Both Marler and Vunipola are young and relatively inexperienced for props, so the only way they are going to get experience is by playing. Come 2015, hopefully, their techniques will be better. Plus I think scrum changes will be brought in to stop the constant collapses, which will make the props job easier.

One worry about Launchbury was how little he was used as a jumper in the lineout in the 6Ns, even for safe/slow front ball. In the Ireland game and others, Robshaw moved up to 2 in the lineout and took responsibility. It just makes the secondrow pairing with him awkward - you coouldn't put one of the heavyweight 2nd rows with him, it would need to be a Parling/Palmer/Borthwick (no I am not suggesting the latter 2) type of player, unless you pick a backrow with Croft and Wood to augement your lineout.

Vunipola did look to be developing fast over the autumn series and 6N - and his handling in the loose is very good for a prop. It wouldnt surprise me at all if he does overtake Marler

Thanks GF and 7 1/2. I think we're all talking about moving in the same direction and to be frank it's not like we're looking at wholesale changes anywhere, at least not in the pack.

As regards Hartley I think his time is coming to an end it's sad to say. He hasn't impressed me in an England game for a while and I agreed with Johnno way back when he was usurped by Thompson. He's not a bad player at all but he just doesn't seem to have the final push to top class in him. Much like Nick Easter. Great club player but never shone on the world stage even over 50+ caps.

It does make you realise what Tom Youngs has achieved in just a season and a half. Incredible. Behind him there is a list of young hookers as long as your arm. Buchanan I am really impressed with, Webber looks better for some game time and Lindsay has the makings but along with George needs to establish himself as first choice.

The man to look out for is Luke Cowan-Dickie at Exeter. Only just converted from LH but with Alcott sadly retired from Exeter and Whitehead losing some form he could get some game time in the Prem next season. His scrummaging is superb, he's around 17st 12lb I think but the best part of his game is his carrying and park skills. Awesome.

As far as Burrell goes Jelly we were talking about him at the end of last year in similar terms. He looks to me like a better version of Jordan Turner-Hall, very powerful chap and breaks the gain-line. What he needs though is a full season as first choice for Saints to develop his game a bit more.

One thing we're not lacking at the moment is power centres. If you compare Burrell to Banahan at the moment there is no contest. Banahan has far better hands and offloading plus he's built a kicking game into his all round skills. Burrell can do it but he needs game time at the top level first.

Banahan is also a strange one.

Is it too late for him to come back in to the mix? He's showing very well at centre.
Or is Tomkins a better younger player of the same style?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Banahan is also a strange one.

Is it too late for him to come back in to the mix? He's showing very well at centre.
Or is Tomkins a better younger player of the same style?

Brian Ashton in his columns in the Independent a few years back was always talking up Banahan's skills. I know he was much derided for for one tackle by Shane Williams, but he had a nice offloading game back then and had a decent return on tries scored at a lean time for England. I wouldnt mind seeing him back. Be better if 36 really kicked on though.

So would you take Banahan to Argentina?

Well who are the current front runners for IC given that Barritt will be either with the lions/rested/ put out to pasture. No.1 on the list has to be 36, so the question is who is next?

I just dont know enough but it seems the possibles list includes
JTH
Allen
Burrell
Eastmond
Banahan

I dont think the 1st 3 will ever quite make it. I think Allen should have been given more of a chance 1st time around but that ship has probably sailed. So you are left with little and large, and that probably depends on how well Eastmond is developing and what position suits him best.

Incidently its another reason why it feels odd that Bath are going for an experienced/clapped out NEQ IC when they have 2 potential internationals IC's on the books.

Yeah pretty good summary to be fair LIW.

So following that i would take bahanan as he covers 12,13,11 & 14 and Eastmond is an interesting one...

GeordieFalcon wrote:So would you take Banahan to Argentina?

No.

I think a certain amount of rose tinting is being used when we look back at Banahans performances. He was average at best and although yes he did get some tries, none were from using his size or power, they were just standard wingers run ins for the most part.

Who would you leave behind for Banahan if he was to tour as a 12? We'll be choosing from Barritt and 36 I imagine, I can't really see a third 12 going on a three game tour as it'd be a waste of a place. If Barritt was to not go are you telling me that Banahan is the third best 12 option in the country? Ahead of Allan, JTH, Casson, Burrel, Eastmond?

Matt Hopper & Luke Cowan-Dickie

RubyGuby wrote:Matt Hopper & Luke Cowan-Dickie

Do you have some kind of players-name tourette's going on Ruby?

But Banahan can make scores through his ability to offload. The only other England player of the last few years who can do that has been Easter

yappysnap wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Matt Hopper & Luke Cowan-Dickie

Do you have some kind of players-name tourette's going on Ruby?

No why?

LondonTiger wrote:My predictions as to some of the uncapped faces we can expect to see in South America:

Henry Thomas
Ed Slater
George Kruis
Calum Clark
Matt Kvesic
Will Fraser
George Ford
Kyle Eastmond & Joel Tomkins
Jonny May
Elliot Daly

hmm 7 from 11 not great predictions.

ah 8 from 12 as I did mention Christian Wade.

Missed Buchanan and BillyV (how did I miss him ????)

Fraser is injured so wasn't considered so that brings your percentage up.

Thanks for all the messages. Honoured to be named in an extremely exciting and young England squad. Argentina is a great place to be tested!

( @FreddieBurns )

Bravely said from a girly who won't put his life and limbs anywhere near the trenches.

Passchendaele for some whilst its a G&T and a quick one with a cute nurse behind the NAAFI for others.