Munster 2013/14

First topic message reminder :

Some news of players leaving Munster.

Doug Howlett has announced his retirement.

Other departures from the current squad - besides Peter Stringer who remains with Bath, Marcus Horan who announced his retirement recently, Sean Scanlon (Rotherham Titans) and Sean Henry (Connacht) - include Wian du Preez who returns to his native South Africa, Scott Deasy and Christy Condon.

BJ Botha will continue on with Munster having signed a two year contract extension while Danny Barnes has not been re-contracted but is understood to have negotiated an opportunity to play abroad and news of that will be confirmed in the coming weeks.

Yes, those missed kicks to touch were inexcusable given the circumstances. One of the main reasons why I would love ROG to come back to Munster in a coaching capacity.

Nachos Jones wrote:Yes, those missed kicks to touch were inexcusable given the circumstances. One of the main reasons why I would love ROG to come back to Munster in a coaching capacity.

I think ROG would love to come back to Munster nachos, I believe he has said so himself, but not quite sure whether that is just wishful thinking on my part. Be that as it may, I think going to France is a very sound move for him. had he stayed at Munster, regardles how well or badly he was doing he would be to some extent in a goldfish bowl. Moving to France is a canny move, broadens his experience, gives him more perspective and all that kind of stuff.

he WILL be back ...

Wouldn't think so, sure he said he hated Munster in that documentary - that he never considered staying and was off like a shot once he'd picked up his tax rebate.

I reckon he will become a head coach in France somewhere before he comes back to Ireland. He has already had one offer.

I listened to an interview with ROG on the radio before when his new book was out. He said he'd love to coach Munster or Ireland. But he wouldn't take it now as he doesn't think he's good enough and would only want to coach teams he cared so much about if he was sure he'd do a good job.

I can't imagine him not coming back to Munster at some point. The fans adore him for one thing so it would be an easy feel-good decision to make for the branch.

Munster are going to be blessed with coaches in years to come with axel, rog and Poc.

BlueMuff wrote:Munster are going to be blessed with coaches in years to come with axel, rog and Poc.

Never forget, Bluemuff, that regardless of how good a player is / was or how charismatic those are no guarantees that he will make a good coach.

Axel is doing well at the moment. We have to wait to see how ROG develops and POC is sokmetime in the future - but those three together, if they could coach even half as well as they played could be a coaching team made in heaven  

KiaRose wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:Munster are going to be blessed with coaches in years to come with axel, rog and Poc.

Never forget, Bluemuff, that regardless of how good a player is / was or how charismatic those are no guarantees that he will make a good coach.

Axel is doing well at the moment.  We have to wait to see how ROG develops and POC is sokmetime in the future - but those three together, if they could coach even half as well as they played could be a coaching team made in heaven  

Totally agree Kia. I am delighted that ROG has gone to France to learn the ropes as he said himself starting from scratch. It probably wouldnt do Axel any harm in moving to another club for a stint maybe somebody like Leicester.

More good news today that Penney looks like signing a new one year contract. Murray, Zebo and Earls all back full training.

BlueMuff wrote:Munster are going to be blessed with coaches in years to come with axel, rog and Poc.

Foley is a good leader so good chance he will make a decent forwards coach. The jury is out on the other two. ROG isnt a people person so time will tell how he fares. POC has no coaching experience.

Surprised any sentence that begins with "Munster are going to be blessed with coaches in years to come with...." doesnt make reference to Mike Prendegast who certainly seems to be doing well as a coach with Grenoble. Of all the ex Munster players is he not the most promising prospect?

Once your playing career ends and your coaching career starts the slate is wiped clean. Playing reputation doesnt count for much IMO. Agerage players like Gatland often make better coaches as they still have a lot to prove.

I don't think Axel would learn too much in Leicester as they are too like Munster.

For the record, after he retired he did go to the SH for a couple of months looking at their set-ups and he spent a couple of weeks with Toulouse.

From what ROG is saying, I don't think he is too impressed with the coaching set-up on France:

In France, the Top 14 is an incredibly difficult league, but the standard of rugby is very average. It’s a slog, it’s combat every week, 28 games excluding Europe. You’re going out on soft pitches against big packs every week. It’s attrition. Whatever coach can devise a phase game in France will be the best coach. Everything is occupation, ie field position.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/ronan-ogara/ronan-ogara-ronan-ogara-someone-will-always-fill-your-shoes-254172.html

The two coaches he is working under are highly regarded in France (won the Top 14 last year).

GunsGerms wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:Munster are going to be blessed with coaches in years to come with axel, rog and Poc.

Foley is a good leader so good chance he will make a decent forwards coach. The jury is out on the other two. ROG isnt a people person so time will tell how he fares. POC has no coaching experience.

Surprised any sentence that begins with "Munster are going to be blessed with coaches in years to come with...." doesnt make reference to Mike Prendegast who certainly seems to be doing well as a coach with Grenoble. Of all the ex Munster players is he not the most promising prospect?

From everything I've read/heard about him, he seems to be regarded as a great people person and well liked by most who played with him. Good craic too from what I can gather.

Shane Horgan said before the docu. last week said something to the effect that people would be surprised as to how likeable a guy he is. Worth reading what the guys who made the documentary about him had to say.

http://www.thescore.ie/rog-making-of-film-1247740-Jan2014/

Mike Prendergast is further on in his career (appointed backs coach next year), but because of the position ROG played at such a high level, I'd imagine he would have a bit of a start on tactics and analysis.

I saw the documentary. Sin we both know ROG isnt a people person. Of course some people like him but that doesnt make him a people person. Aparently ROG hadnt spoken to Stringer in a long time in the lead up to the '07 RWC for example.

It is in ROGs nature to be impetituous and ruled by emotion on occasion, there are numerous examples of this. That doesnt necessarly mean he wont be a good coach but I could see him falling out with people easily ala Eddie O'Sullivan. It might be a Cork thing.

Prendegast was a scrum half himself which is a fairly pivotal position. There seems to be a fairly romantic view amongst some Munster fans than the best Munster players will automatically be the most sucessful coaches.

GunsGerms wrote:I saw the documentary. Sin we both know ROG isnt a people person. Of course some people like him but that doesnt make him a people person. Aparently ROG hadnt spoken to Stringer in a long time in the lead up to the '07 RWC for example.

His wife's sister was also meant to have been pregnant by him prior to the 07 world cup! (not too sure whether his wife even has a sister!)

Peter Stringer ‏@stringer9 19 May
What a huge loss @RonanOGara10 will be to rugby in this country both on and off the field.A true leader and one of a kind.

(He tweeted a pic of the two of them together when they were kids. Not the actions of someone who he wasn't speaking to).

It is in ROGs nature to be impetituous and ruled by emotion on occasion, there are numerous examples of this. That doesnt necessarly mean he wont be a good coach but I could see him falling out with people easily ala Eddie O'Sullivan. It might be a Cork thing.

Still the best clutch operator in the game. He sure knew how to control/use his emotion. Eddie O'Sullivan was saying on Off the Ball last night how easy he was to work with because he was so straight and honest. Jackman was saying he was great craic for a few pints.

Prendegast was a scrum half himself which is a fairly pivotal position. There seems to be a fairly romantic view amongst some Munster fans than the best Munster players will automatically be the most sucessful coaches.

I know, but he doesn't have 130 caps or had the experience of so many different top level coaches.

Didn't Kidney indicate there were 4 leaders in the Irish set up

POC, BOD, ROG and Best

GunsGerms wrote: There seems to be a fairly romantic view amongst some Munster fans than the best Munster players will automatically be the most sucessful coaches.

I wouldnt disagree with that. Its all part of the Munster physcy, its our DNA and its who we are. Its what makes us stand out from the rest when our backs are to the wall.

Thats and the fact that between that them they have zillions of caps, points experience at all levels. Like I said a great player is not guaranteed to make a great coach but its a bloody good starting point when you have experience like that.

BlueMuff wrote:

GunsGerms wrote: There seems to be a fairly romantic view amongst some Munster fans than the best Munster players will automatically be the most sucessful coaches.

I wouldnt disagree with that. Its all part of the Munster physcy, its our DNA and its who we are. Its what makes us stand out from the rest when our backs are to the wall.

I thought it was your backs running sideways that made you stand out.....


  

rodders wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:

GunsGerms wrote: There seems to be a fairly romantic view amongst some Munster fans than the best Munster players will automatically be the most sucessful coaches.

I wouldnt disagree with that. Its all part of the Munster physcy, its our DNA and its who we are. Its what makes us stand out from the rest when our backs are to the wall.

I thought it was your backs running sideways that made you stand out.....


  

Touche...

Munster will never evolve beyond their current mentality if they hire guys straight after their playing career. There's a point where you need outside guys, and not just give "jobs to the lads".


I was delighted Penney got the job, you need outside thinking or you will stagnate, Munster needed Penney at the time they did and whoever takes over him some years down the line, may be one of the old heads. I like the route Prendergast has taken. He should be a candiate for backs coach if Mannix is going, ahead of Doug Howlett anyway.

Whats the rush with O'Gara? Give him 5-10 years to learn his craft as a coach and time for everyone he played with to retire. Rushing to give him a coaching job at Munster would be like eating a fruit before it's ripe.

Worst appointment Ulster ever made was Mark McCall. Just too soon after he retired, at a time when his former teammates were still in the province and before he had gained any meaningful experience. Turned into a complete disaster. But look at him now with Saracens- he's doing a really excellent job. If we had let him go to England or France to get his start as a coach for a bit we could be reaping the benefits around now- I doubt he'll ever come back to Ulster after the way it went first time around.

Presume Munster are signing up another NIQ 13? Any rumours going around?

Thomond wrote:Munster will never evolve beyond their current mentality if they hire guys straight after their playing career. There's a point where you need outside guys, and not just give "jobs to the lads".

Hardly jobs for the lads or we need outside guys - Foley is the only ex-Munster player coaching in Munster not to mention the succession of foreign coaches we've had over the years. Jim Williams didn't turn out too bad as a coach, did he?

It all depends on the club you are with - big clubs like Toulouse & Leicester automatically make their retiring players coaches.

I was delighted Penney got the job, you need outside thinking or you will stagnate, Munster needed Penney at the time they did and whoever takes over him some years down the line, may be one of the old heads. I like the route Prendergast has taken. He should be a candiate for backs coach if Mannix is going, ahead of Doug Howlett anyway.

Munster have had so many 'outside' coaches, its a joke at this stage. It think its pretty poor that Mike Prendergast couldn't get a sniff of a job in Ireland at one of the provinces and he can fairly quickly get to be the Backs Coach of a Top 14 club.

Notch wrote:Whats the rush with O'Gara? Give him 5-10 years to learn his craft as a coach and time for everyone he played with to retire. Rushing to give him a coaching job at Munster would be like eating a fruit before it's ripe.

Worst appointment Ulster ever made was Mark McCall. Just too soon after he retired, at a time when his former teammates were still in the province and before he had gained any meaningful experience. Turned into a complete disaster. But look at him now with Saracens- he's doing a really excellent job. If we had let him go to England or France to get his start as a coach for a bit we could be reaping the benefits around now- I doubt he'll ever come back to Ulster after the way it went first time around.

Fabian Pelous was appointed Assistant coach of France A while still playing for Toulouse.
Your own David Humphreys got a fairly senior position with Ulster (Operations Director/Director of Rugby or something)
Jonno Gibbs with Leinster.
Servat & Ellissalde with Toulouse
Geordan Murphy, Cockerill, Paul Burke at Leicester (not forgetting Pat Horan).
Conor O'Shea was a Player coach with London Irish and later became its MD.

Just because it didn't work out for Mark McCall (and in fairness, Ulster wasn't run very well anyway in general at that time), doesn't mean that everyone else is going to fail.

No it doesn't, but whats the downside to letting a guy get some experience so when he does come back he's even better equipped to do a great job?

Dougie may be getting the backs job next year if rumours are to be believed, why not get an experienced coach? . Munster need to find the balance between keeping the ethos and being open to outside thinking. Right now it's going pretty well, the Scarlets went the opposite direction a few years back I don't want to see Munster go that way.

Thomond wrote:Dougie may be getting the backs job next year if rumours are to be believed, why not get an experienced coach? . Munster need to find the balance between keeping the ethos and being open to outside thinking. Right now it's going pretty well, the Scarlets went the opposite direction a few years back I don't want to see Munster go that way.

Thats the key there.


I don't want to see a load of former players take up the job. Usually the best players don't make the best managers. That has been proven in every sport. In terms of coaching I think the corrct policy is to look around the world for the top coaches. It certainly is at the moment. Irish rugby is playing catch up in terms of skills etc but its on the right track.


ROGs doesn't have th personality to be a head coach IMO. For the simple reason that he is too opinionated and tends to speak whats on his mind. He reminds meof Roy Keane in that sense. ROG does have a good rugby brain which could translate into being a good coach but not head coach IMO.

Notch wrote:No it doesn't, but whats the downside to letting a guy get some experience so when he does come back he's even better equipped to do a great job?

ROG is getting experience in a Top 14 club (2 years). Communications seems to be the biggest problem for Sexton & himself, one he is unlikely to encounter coaching an Irish team.

profitius wrote:

Thomond wrote:Dougie may be getting the backs job next year if rumours are to be believed, why not get an experienced coach? . Munster need to find the balance between keeping the ethos and being open to outside thinking. Right now it's going pretty well, the Scarlets went the opposite direction a few years back I don't want to see Munster go that way.

Thats the key there.

I don't want to see a load of former players take up the job. Usually the best players don't make the best managers. That has been proven in every sport.  In terms of coaching I think the corrct policy is to look around the world for the top coaches. It certainly is at the moment. Irish rugby is playing catch up in terms of skills etc but its on the right track.

ROGs doesn't have th personality to be a head coach IMO. For the simple reason that he is too opinionated and tends to speak whats on his mind. He reminds meof Roy Keane in that sense. ROG does have a good rugby brain which could translate into being a good coach but not head coach IMO.

Its been the other way, though for a while. ROG made himself the player he is by hard work, completely different to say BOD, who is naturally talented. Foley was similar in that he too had his limitations but he was a very clever player (unlike maybe Heaslip/Wally who are/were natural talents).

Being opinionated and speaking your mind sounds to me like being good attributes of a head coach (though I think most people are thinking of ROG more as a Backs coach, not head coach).

Notch wrote:Whats the rush with O'Gara?

Dont think anybody said there is a rush. In fact think everybody said its a goog thing that he is gone abroad and will wait some years till he has learned the coaching trade.

Sin é wrote:Its been the other way, though for a while. ROG made himself the player he is by hard work

And also by going behind his teammates and positional rivals backs and whinging to the coaches and media to get selected.... say what you want about Roy Keane but he was upfront and loyal to his fellow players. ROG would be a disaster as a coach because of his ego - even at Racing he tries to be the centre of attention by standing behind Sexton at every kick to get his mug on the screen - you don't see that from other kicking coaches.

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:Its been the other way, though for a while. ROG made himself the player he is by hard work

And also by going behind his teammates and positional rivals backs and whinging to the coaches and media to get selected....  say what you want about Roy Keane but he was upfront and loyal to his fellow players. ROG would be a disaster as a coach because of his ego - even at Racing he tries to be the centre of attention by standing behind Sexton at every kick to get his mug on the screen - you don't see that from other kicking coaches.  

Ah steady on will ya thats an outrageous post. He did not whinge to the coaches and media. And as for Keane how many times did he slam players for not performing. And the comment about standing behing Sexton at Racing so he can be on the telly is just laughable.

I demand a retraction of this post.   

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:Its been the other way, though for a while. ROG made himself the player he is by hard work

And also by going behind his teammates and positional rivals backs and whinging to the coaches and media to get selected....  say what you want about Roy Keane but he was upfront and loyal to his fellow players. ROG would be a disaster as a coach because of his ego - even at Racing he tries to be the centre of attention by standing behind Sexton at every kick to get his mug on the screen - you don't see that from other kicking coaches.  

As Shane Horgan said on the telly, ROG put a lot of medals in fellows back pockets.

BlueMuff wrote:

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:Its been the other way, though for a while. ROG made himself the player he is by hard work

And also by going behind his teammates and positional rivals backs and whinging to the coaches and media to get selected....  say what you want about Roy Keane but he was upfront and loyal to his fellow players. ROG would be a disaster as a coach because of his ego - even at Racing he tries to be the centre of attention by standing behind Sexton at every kick to get his mug on the screen - you don't see that from other kicking coaches.  

Ah steady on will ya thats an outrageous post. He did not whinge to the coaches and media.  And as for Keane how many times did he slam players for not performing. And the comment about standing behing Sexton at Racing so he can be on the telly is just laughable.

I demand a retraction of this post.   

Thats the main reason he isnt universally loved in Ireland. He did whinge to coaches and the media. Take the blinkers off pal.

GunsGerms wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:Its been the other way, though for a while. ROG made himself the player he is by hard work

And also by going behind his teammates and positional rivals backs and whinging to the coaches and media to get selected....  say what you want about Roy Keane but he was upfront and loyal to his fellow players. ROG would be a disaster as a coach because of his ego - even at Racing he tries to be the centre of attention by standing behind Sexton at every kick to get his mug on the screen - you don't see that from other kicking coaches.  

Ah steady on will ya thats an outrageous post. He did not whinge to the coaches and media.  And as for Keane how many times did he slam players for not performing. And the comment about standing behing Sexton at Racing so he can be on the telly is just laughable.

I demand a retraction of this post.   

Thats the main reason he isnt universally loved in Ireland. He did whinge to coaches and the media. Take the blinkers off pal.

Thats absoulely rubbish. I couldnt give two fiddlers if you loved or hated him. In fact I enjoy the fact that yee cant stand him. Yee actually cant handle the fact that he gives an honest opinion and not the usual bland boring rubbish that most players come out with. Like the time when he said that the Irish players are better than the English players.

However saying that the stands behind Sexton when taking kicks so he can be caught on screen is laughable. And if you believe that then you equally laughable.

I didnt make any comment on whether I loved him or not thats just your Munster insecurities coming out.

Fact is he did regularly whinge though. I do like him as a pundit now but some of his comments when contracted to Ireland were pretty innapropriate and unprofessional which is why he grated on certain people.

I also didnt comment on Sexton at all.

All Munster posters on this thread have said is that could potentially make a good coach and is doing the right thing by going abroad. Its others including you brought in whether he is universally loved and standing behind sexton etc. Like I said who gives a fiddlers if he is universally loved (to use your own language) and the Sexton statement is laughable.

It really shouldnt bother yee if we think he will make a good coach for Munster.

BlueMuff wrote:All Munster posters on this thread have said is that could potentially make a good coach and is doing the right thing by going abroad. Its others including you brought in whether he is universally loved and standing behind sexton etc. Like I said who gives a fiddlers if he is universally loved (to use your own language)  and the Sexton statement is laughable.

It really shouldnt bother yee if we think he will make a good coach for Munster.

So you agree he isnt universally loved? The point is, a bit like Roy Keane perhaps his emotional nature is his big strength but might also be his undoing as a coach. Time will tell. If his playing career is the litmus test I think its fair to say he did alienate lots of fans along the way and even some team mates.

I think he is a likable guy, he just has a habit of saying fairly inappropriate things on occasion.

Of course it matters if he becomes a good coach for Munster. Munster is structurally 1/4 of the Ireland set up so it will always matter.

I can't think of anyone who is universally loved. Even Jonny Wilkinson (closest one to being universally loved) has his critics.

Leinster & Ulster fans are never not going to love him, but its interesting to see the manlove that some of the Leinster players were tweeting.

Sin é wrote:I can't think of anyone who is universally loved. Even Jonny Wilkinson (closest one to being universally loved) has his critics.

Leinster & Ulster fans are never not going to love  him, but its interesting to see the manlove that some of the Leinster players were tweeting.

Why was that interesting?

BlueMuff wrote:

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:Its been the other way, though for a while. ROG made himself the player he is by hard work

And also by going behind his teammates and positional rivals backs and whinging to the coaches and media to get selected....  say what you want about Roy Keane but he was upfront and loyal to his fellow players. ROG would be a disaster as a coach because of his ego - even at Racing he tries to be the centre of attention by standing behind Sexton at every kick to get his mug on the screen - you don't see that from other kicking coaches.  

Ah steady on will ya thats an outrageous post. He did not whinge to the coaches and media.  And as for Keane how many times did he slam players for not performing. And the comment about standing behing Sexton at Racing so he can be on the telly is just laughable.

I demand a retraction of this post.   

I'm afraid only a strongly worded letter from ROGs solicitor will make me retract said post ...   

GunsGerms wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:All Munster posters on this thread have said is that could potentially make a good coach and is doing the right thing by going abroad. Its others including you brought in whether he is universally loved and standing behind sexton etc. Like I said who gives a fiddlers if he is universally loved (to use your own language)  and the Sexton statement is laughable.

It really shouldnt bother yee if we think he will make a good coach for Munster.

So you agree he isnt universally loved? The point is, a bit like Roy Keane perhaps his emotional nature is his big strength but might also be his undoing as a coach. Time will tell. If his playing career is the litmus test I think its fair to say he did alienate lots of fans along the way and even some team mates.

I think he is a likable guy, he just has a habit of saying fairly inappropriate things on occasion.

Of course it matters if he becomes a good coach for Munster. Munster is structurally 1/4 of the Ireland set up so it will always matter.

Clearly and evidently he has annoyed lots of people. Outside of rugby he is not that well liked even in Munster. Many people (mostly women) argue he's rude, arrogant and up his own arse. But to be honest none of that matters when it comes to Munster and HC. All I wanted was him to suceed in the red jersey and he was very effective at that.

I take your point possibly that some of his statements didnt help the national team. But will we ever forget that drop goal   

BlueMuff wrote: But to be honest none of that matters when it comes to Munster and HC. All I wanted was him to suceed in the red jersey and he was very effective at that.

Totally agree and he played some stormers in a green jersey too....doesn't change my view that his gobshoite personality makes him an unlikely good coach though.....   

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:I can't think of anyone who is universally loved. Even Jonny Wilkinson (closest one to being universally loved) has his critics.

Leinster & Ulster fans are never not going to love  him, but its interesting to see the manlove that some of the Leinster players were tweeting.

Why was that interesting?

It was interesting to me as it proves that anyone saying he isn't liked, rated, popular are talking out of their arses because of the number of people who actually know him say the exact opposite.

BlueMuff - women love ROG.

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:Its been the other way, though for a while. ROG made himself the player he is by hard work

And also by going behind his teammates and positional rivals backs and whinging to the coaches and media to get selected....  say what you want about Roy Keane but he was upfront and loyal to his fellow players. ROG would be a disaster as a coach because of his ego - even at Racing he tries to be the centre of attention by standing behind Sexton at every kick to get his mug on the screen - you don't see that from other kicking coaches.  

Rodders

Turn the sound down on your computer; watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwUOdGriMZU

Then tell me who the kicking coach is ...   

Jenkins is suffering from ROG syndrome ..... must be a ginger thing......  

rodders wrote:Jenkins is suffering from ROG syndrome ..... must be a ginger thing......  

That is "ginger-ist" and unacceptable ....

Naughty boy, Rodders (and ROG ain't even ginger)

Only when he's angry Kia ....

BTW there's nothing wrong with being ginger...its just not an excuse to try and get on camera as a kicking coach.

Munster: Felix Jones; Keith Earls, Casey Laulala, James Downey, Johne Murphy; Ian Keatley, Conor Murray; Dave Kilcoyne, Damien Varley, BJ Botha; Dave Foley, Paul O'Connell; Peter O'Mahony (Captain), Tommy O'Donnell, James Coughlan.

Replacements: Duncan Casey, James Cronin, Stephen Archer, Donncha O'Callaghan, CJ Stander, Duncan Williams, JJ Hanrahan, Simon Zebo.


As predicted Keatley gets the nod (dont know why).

Happy to see Foley get a rewarded start thought he was very impressive last week.

Killer over Cronin was a tight call as was Downey over Dineen but marginal enough calls. If anything it means we have a very strong bench.

BlueMuff wrote:Munster: Felix Jones; Keith Earls, Casey Laulala, James Downey, Johne Murphy; Ian Keatley, Conor Murray; Dave Kilcoyne, Damien Varley, BJ Botha; Dave Foley, Paul O'Connell; Peter O'Mahony (Captain), Tommy O'Donnell, James Coughlan.

Replacements: Duncan Casey, James Cronin, Stephen Archer, Donncha O'Callaghan, CJ Stander, Duncan Williams, JJ Hanrahan, Simon Zebo.


As predicted Keatley gets the nod (dont know why).

Happy to see Foley get a rewarded start thought he was very impressive last week.

Killer over Cronin was a tight call as was Downey over Dineen but marginal enough calls. If anything it means we have a very strong bench.

Agreed muff, can't see why Pennney is starting with Keatley and not JJ. And at SH, I know Williams had for once a decent game last time out, but young Sheridan has impressed this season - is he dropped or is it an injury? That Casey fella with the big beard at hooker also looked good last time out - interesting to see how fares in a HC game when (if?) he comes on

Not happy with Keatley being selected ahead of JJ but I can see him coming off early if he is not playing well.

I would seriously give him the hook if he missed the first 2 penos. It would be terrible for him but its more important that we win this match.


Williams just got picked ahead of Sheridan who has had 2 flaky games recently where as Williams has had the opposite. Fingers crossed Murray finishes out the game.