Munster 2013/14

First topic message reminder :

Some news of players leaving Munster.

Doug Howlett has announced his retirement.

Other departures from the current squad - besides Peter Stringer who remains with Bath, Marcus Horan who announced his retirement recently, Sean Scanlon (Rotherham Titans) and Sean Henry (Connacht) - include Wian du Preez who returns to his native South Africa, Scott Deasy and Christy Condon.

BJ Botha will continue on with Munster having signed a two year contract extension while Danny Barnes has not been re-contracted but is understood to have negotiated an opportunity to play abroad and news of that will be confirmed in the coming weeks.

Ok I'll try to make it as clear as possible.

This image is before anything happens where you can see Williams' arms both buried deep in the ruck.



This image shows the appearance of 3 fingers on Williams' forearm at a position that realistically couldn't possibly be his own wrist,



This image clearly shows 3 distinct fingers grabbing Williams' forearm and beginning to pull it. Note the time on all 3 of these images is 4.02.



And the last image which I've already uploaded shows the hand having grabbed Williams' arm and pulling it towards the Scarlets tryline.



This is all very clear on the video when you slow it down enough at 4.02.

I can't make it any clearer than that in stills but if a person is not convinced by that I can only assume they don't want to be convinced.

Munstermac is all irrelevant at this stage anyhow. The officiating at this game was disgraceful but any amount of trying to convince like Guns is a wasted effort as he is totally blinkered.

I think whats more relevant was some of the back play that we put together was the best I have seen from any Irish team since the Leinster of 2 years ago. If we can keep this up I look forward to the next 3 months.

I think my image is much clearer.

Glad we cleared all that up to everyone's satisfaction.

Well just to get away from last Saturday and to look forward. Quentin McDonald has arrived on a 3-month contract. He will be turning out for the A team at Dooradoyle on Friday against the Connacht Eagles (He's a hooker where Muinster are just a tad short in resources at the moment).

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/18053.php#.UxZdUrSLVHk

MunsterMac wrote:Ok I'll try to make it as clear as possible.

This image is before anything happens where you can see Williams' arms both buried deep in the ruck.



This image shows the appearance of 3 fingers on Williams' forearm at a position that realistically couldn't possibly be his own wrist,

Here...no....it couldn't be... not again!... is that Neil Backs hand?!

Could be anyone's hand. Maybe its ROG's hand?

Now that the 6Ns is over its time for many of the Munster also rans to stand up and be counted and show Holy Joe what they are capable of. Treviso next weekend with all due respect will be just a warmer upper for the following 2 weeks.

Question is do we put out full team against the ladies with a point to prove, build momentum and get partnerships back together again but risk losing players to injury?

Im all for players like D. Ryan, TOD, Zebo, Jones being selected. Id also like to see Cronin start this game as I think he is a better scrummager than Moore and Id like to see JJ start at 10.

Obviously, the 6N champions are at home, playing in their own back yard with yet another swan song / last celebration game for Bod so Id be happy with just being competitive for this one   

If Leinster are ladies then Munster must be girls as they are regularly dominated by Leinster? Will it be ladies v girls? Are Munster players just girly boys?

Anyway I care not who wins this. Hoping for an Ulster or maybe Munster title in the Hcup as this would be probably best for Irish rugby at this point.

GunsGerms wrote:If Leinster are ladies then Munster must be girls as they are regularly dominated by Leinster? Will it be ladies v girls? Are Munster players just girly boys?

Anyway I care not who wins this. Hoping for an Ulster or maybe Munster title in the Hcup as this would be probably best for Irish rugby at this point.

Of course you would...

I think all fit players bar those involved in Paris will be in play next weekend and barring injuries everyone will be involved in the Aviva.

You can't be afraid of injuries and we don't want what happened when we played Ulster in 2012 to happen again where it was the first match back for a number of players who were away with Ireland and returning injured players.

I'd go as close to full strength as possible against Leinster.

BlueMuff wrote:Now that the 6Ns is over its time for many of the Munster also rans to stand up and be counted and show Holy Joe what they are capable of. Treviso next weekend with all due respect will be just a warmer upper for the following 2 weeks.

Question is do we put out full team against the ladies with a point to prove, build momentum and get partnerships back together again but risk losing players to injury?

Im all for players like D. Ryan, TOD, Zebo, Jones being selected. Id also like to see Cronin start this game as I think he is a better scrummager than Moore and Id like to see JJ start at 10.

Obviously, the 6N champions are at home, playing in their own back yard with yet another swan song / last celebration game for Bod so Id be happy with just being competitive for this one   

For the Leinster game a week before the QF...I would guess a fairly full strength team...hopefully we will clap BOD out onto the field and then give him a few bruises to remember us by...

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:If Leinster are ladies then Munster must be girls as they are regularly dominated by Leinster? Will it be ladies v girls? Are Munster players just girly boys?

Anyway I care not who wins this. Hoping for an Ulster or maybe Munster title in the Hcup as this would be probably best for Irish rugby at this point.

Of course you would...

You dont believe me?

I couldnt give a flying fornication what you hope/believe or think.  

ME-109 wrote:I couldnt give a flying fornication what you hope/believe or think.  

Jeez drop a lung Dod.

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:I couldnt give a flying fornication what you hope/believe or think.  

Jeez drop a lung Dod.

Is that some sort of agricultural reference???

No I heard it in Austin Powers. Take a deep breath basically.

Must be my age...

Anyhow, seems a bit ironic that you had post No.666 on the Munster thread....

ME-109 wrote:Must be my age...

Anyhow, seems a bit ironic that you had post No.666 on the Munster thread....

Haha. I'd say you enjoyed that little observation.

MunsterMac wrote:I think all fit players bar those involved in Paris will be in play next weekend and barring injuries everyone will be involved in the Aviva.

You can't be afraid of injuries and we don't want what happened when we played Ulster in 2012 to happen again where it was the first match back for a number of players who were away with Ireland and returning injured players.

I'd go as close to full strength as possible against Leinster.

I would agree with that my team would be

Cronin (think he has the edge on Killer in the scrum)
Duncan Casey (if fit)
Archer
POC
D. Ryan (looking forward to seeing him against Toner)
POM
TOD (point to prove)
Coughlan
Murray
JJ (assume Keatley will start against Toulouse)
J Murphy
Downey
Casey
Zebo (point to prove)
Jones

For Treviso:

Kilcoyne
Varley
Botha
DOC
Ryan
Stander
TOD
Coughlan

Williams (God help us!!)
Keatley
Zebo
Downey
Laulala
Murphy
Jones

With Cronin, Casey / MacDonald and Archer to come on in the front row, Dougal to come on in the back row, Earls to come on on the wing with Zebo to 15 and JJ to come on at 10 / 12.

Is Varley back thought he was still injured as I didnt hear anything that he was back training?

Yep both him and Earls are back in the mix.

Seemingly Schmit brought Earls into Ireland's squad training last Thursday.

Munster V Treviso

Munster: Felix Jones; Keith Earls, Casey Laulala, James Downey, Johne Murphy; JJ Hanrahan, Duncan Williams; James Cronin, Damien Varley (Capt.), John Ryan; Billy Holland, Paul O'Connell; Donnacha Ryan, Sean Dougall, Paddy Butler.

Replacements: Quentin McDonald, Dave Kilcoyne, Stephen Archer, Donncha O'Callaghan, CJ Stander, Gerry Hurley, Ian Keatley, Simon Zebo.

Zebo on the bench? Has Schmidt been talking to Penney or something?   

MunsterMac wrote:Yep both him and Earls are back in the mix.

Seemingly Schmit brought Earls into Ireland's squad training last Thursday.

Johne Murphy also trained with the Ireland team.

He said on Talk Sport "As much as I hate to admit it I can see what the Leinster guys were on about when they were singing his praises it must have been amazing training with him week in week out."

MunsterMac wrote:Munster V Treviso

Munster: Felix Jones; Keith Earls, Casey Laulala, James Downey, Johne Murphy; JJ Hanrahan, Duncan Williams; James Cronin, Damien Varley (Capt.), John Ryan; Billy Holland, Paul O'Connell; Donnacha Ryan, Sean Dougall, Paddy Butler.

Replacements: Quentin McDonald, Dave Kilcoyne, Stephen Archer, Donncha O'Callaghan, CJ Stander, Gerry Hurley, Ian Keatley, Simon Zebo.

Thanks MunsterMac thats a strong team. Great to see POC playing. Backline line very exciting. Only downside is that no matter how well JJ plays (even with stats like 56 from 60) he still wont get picked next week.

Zebo is a nailed on starter against Leinster and Toulouse so its a competition between Earls and Murphy who gets the other wing.

Zebo on the bench? Has Schmidt been talking to Penney or something?

Zebo's had a good run over the last few weeks whereas Earls needs to get gametime asap with Toulouse coming up.

I hope Botha's non-involvement is down to saving him for the next few weeks.

Good that JJ is starting...are you sure Billy Holland is playing Lock and Ryan at blindside? Will be interesting to see what McDonald can bring to the team. Hope Gerry Hurley gets a run as well.

are you sure Billy Holland is playing Lock and Ryan at blindside?

Well that's what it says on the Munster website.

Ryan has played 6 many times before.

ME-109 wrote:Good that JJ is starting...are you sure Billy Holland is playing Lock and Ryan at blindside? Will be interesting to see what McDonald can bring to the team. Hope Gerry Hurley gets a run as well.

Billy has the B&I Cup QF game coming up shortly and won't get a game next week.

Interesting at how POC is starting. Obviously couldn't wait to get back to Munster after Camp Joe.

MM - I know Ryan has played 6 numerous times, I would have thought Billy was closer to a 6 though given his stints in the No.6 jersey.


Sin É - as for POC...he probably needs some detoxification

Depending on this w/e I'd love to see this team against Leinster.

15 Zebo
14 Earls
13 Laulala
12 JJ
11 Murphy
10 Keatley
9 Murray
8 Coughlan
7 TOD
6 POM
5 POC
4 Ryan
3 Botha
2 Varley
1 Kilcoyne

MunsterMac - do you see Zebo at 15 long term?

Also when Keatley and JJ have been on the same team together, doesn't Keatley move out to 12?

Do I see Zebo at 15 long term?

I don't know but I think Jones has yet to develop into the player we all thought he would become and Zebo is much more of a threat from there. He will need to improve his positioning and fielding a bit but he has a howitzer of a left boot on him.

Yes it's usually 10 JJ / 12 Keatley but given I think JJ is the all round more talented player I would like to see him tried at 12 with his footwork / kicking / passing abilities.

Cant believe Stander signed a new deal with the lack of game time he gets. Maybe he knew Penney was off.....

I'd like to see Cronin start against Leinster as i think hes looked better in the scrum and then unleash Kilkoyne from the bench.

The backrow in Munster is getting very compeditive though. You have Dougall, Butler, Coughlan, POM, Stander, Holland, DOC2, Ronan and Barry O'Mahony.

Plus Donacha Ryan can play 6 and Robin Copeland is arriving next year.

Plus that Jack O'Donoghue is very highly thought of and looked very good for the U-20s in the 6N this year.

Jeez is the TMO from Cork?

GunsGerms wrote:Jeez is the TMO from Cork?

The ref said he seen it and he was also happy with it....very strange decision. Good break by JJ but it looked like Earls overran it, saying that, he finished it really well.

Gretgael1 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Jeez is the TMO from Cork?

The ref said he seen it and he was also happy with it....very strange decision. Good break by JJ but it looked like Earls overran it, saying that, he finished it really well.

Yeah Earls overran it slightly, but was also pushed by the player behind him. Very good finish though.

Apart from that break, JJ is having a horrible game.

That was an awful decision. I mean, terrible stuff.

Hate to lose a game with that kind of decision - hate to win because of one too. Still...

JJ didn't have a great first half, it's been poor stuff by Munster so far.

Even though I'm happy Munster scored these sort of decisions don't help the game. The same two weeks ago in Wales when Munster were on the receiving end of two bad calls from the ref/TMO. I don't believe these things even themselves out over a season, they shouldn't have to when you have video evidence available.

Was POC not meant to be playing tonight?

When did Munster attendences start to dip so drastically? I know the likes of Treviso aren't the most attractive but They couldn't even sell out against Leinster at the start of the season and against Glaws in the HC.

Golden wrote:Was POC not meant to be playing tonight?

shoulder niggle, Golden.

Ah right presume hell be back for the big one next week?

KiaRose wrote:Hate to lose a game with that kind of decision - hate to win because of one too. Still...

As someone said to me on twitter, you can't give the points back... I guess if you get the four tries and no more you'll feel rather fortunate!

Whats happening to Treviso next season? Will they revert to Benetton and join their Domestic league?

Golden wrote:Ah right presume hell be back for the big one next week?

Expect so. Big one next week? Bigger one the week after