Rogers Cup and Cincinatti

First topic message reminder :

Stats definitely not my forte but I have just been looking at how many points the big names have to defend in the the next couple of weeks.

Djokovic Canada W  Cincinnati F 1600
Murray Canada R16 Cincinnati R16 180
Ferrer Canada - Cincinnati R32 10
Nadal Canada - Cincinnati - 0
Federer Canada - Cincinnati W 1000

Very unlikely to be any shuffling at the top (would take a great fortnight by Murray (possible) combined with an epic fail by Djokovic (not going to happen)).

Murray, Ferrer and Nadal both have a great opportunity to strengthen their positions though.  This is the polite way of saying that two of them really should have done better last year! (Edit: Born Slippy has since pointed out that Murray withdrew from Canada last year (knee injury))

Really hope Federer does play Canada this year.  He has a lot of points to defend at Cinci and it could take the pressure off a bit.

Should be a fun fortnight.  Can't wait to see the big names out in force again

Wow, that's a very surprising result and kudos to Nadal for lifting his 4th? Masters title of the year. From Djokovic's perspective it's funny how he can go from peerless in one match to a rather poor display in the next. The USO is looking like a cracker though!! I reckon it hinges on who draws Nadal in the semis.

Well it wasn´t so much defending him because I know that it has happened to him and others in the past. But he looked more upset by what he had done than Novak did. I really think it was more of "there is a ball for me to whack" without realising he was going to hit Novak.
But you are right they are all big boys playing a big boys game for high stakes and these things are bound to happend in such a high intensity match

Nadal remains unbeaten on the cement!!! Sure he has only played two tournaments on it, but who would have thought it possible before his return?

I would think that Nole probably thought something along the lines of "what an A-hole" immediately after the hit, but I'd be suprised if he was still upset about it after the match

Kingraf - good point, two hard court tournaments and yet to lose. And there we all were saying Rafa's future lay mainly on clay and grass. I wonder if he's ever won 2 hard court tournaments (ones he's entered) in a row before?

As for the face hit, nothing to see here. I wish players did it more!

The Special Juan wrote:Wow, that's a very surprising result and kudos to Nadal for lifting his 4th? Masters title of the year.

Hehe.  Kind of disrespectful to the poor little Milos, are we not?

Sorry to disappoint you Danny_1982 as I know you are a fan of a little "feistiness" between players but no way did Nadal plan to hit Djokovic. Did you see his reaction immediately afterwards? He was overly apologetic. A little surprised that it appeared that Djokovic didn't appear to accept at the time but he definitely did at the net when Nadal made a further apology. There would be no point attempting to rattle an opponent by being feisty and then rubbing it out by being overly apologetic. I don't think players of the standard of these two need to resort to such tactics.

He deliberately hit it at him because its difficult to get back. He probably didn't plan to hit him in the neck, although neither you or I know that for sure.

But either way, relax! It really doesn't matter. There's almost a desperation to prove it wasn't intentional, and I don't think it's needed. Everyone knows Rafa is both an intense competitor but also a decent guy.

Plus, these are two elite athletes striving to get the better of each other and even if he had intended to hit him in the face, so what? Novak is a 6ft 2" man. Nobody is going to cry. If at the end you shake hands and say well done then there's no problem.

summerblues wrote:

The Special Juan wrote:Wow, that's a very surprising result and kudos to Nadal for lifting his 4th? Masters title of the year.

Hehe.  Kind of disrespectful to the poor little Milos, are we not?

Maybe a bit sb but I can't see Raonic causing him many problems. From what I've read, Raonic isn't 100% fit as he had an arm problem during his match against DelPo, plus Nadal has already dealt with Janowicz who is arguably a better version of Raonic.

Team Flurray will be on SS4 @ 5:30.

Agreed Juan. If you beat JJ you shouldn't really be losing to Raonic. Stranger things have happened I guess, and if Raonic red lines it he has the firepower... But I just don't think he's a good enough mover to beat Rafa personally.

Post Australian Open 2012, Djokovic hasnt really seemed capable of taking his mind to those dark spaces needed to close out razor-thin matches. He double-faulted on MP in Roland Garros vs Nadal last year, couldnt really scrap it vs Federer at Wimbledon, faded vs Murray at USO. He won AO, but with the exception of the Wawrinka match, he has lost a majority of the "squeeky-bum" matches he has been involved in. In boxing they talk about fights which take a piece off the fighter. I just wonder if a piece of Nole wasnt left in AO2012.

kingraf wrote:Post Australian Open 2012, Djokovic hasnt really seemed capable of taking his mind to those dark spaces needed to close out razor-thin matches. He double-faulted on MP in Roland Garros vs Nadal last year, couldnt really scrap it vs Federer at Wimbledon, faded vs Murray at USO. He won AO, but with the exception of the Wawrinka match, he has lost a majority of the "squeeky-bum" matches he has been involved in. In boxing they talk about fights which take a piece off the fighter. I just wonder if a piece of Nole wasnt left in  AO2012.

My thoughts exactly. He gave up two breaks on double faults last night. RG last year was double faults on break points as well as match point. Against Fed at Cincy last year, it was a double fault fest too.

Then we have things like touching the net and failing to see out the 5th set at RG this year. Against Andy at Wimbledon he was 4-1 and 4-2 up in sets two and three and lost both of them (didn't even get to a tie breaks). Match points in the 4th v Del Potro at Wimbledon and played too passively and lost them. Then there's the debacle v Berdych, being outlasted by a cramping Dimitrov... it's not been a good few months.

It wasn't to be for team Flurray as they go down in straight sets to a good doubles pairing in the end. Still, it was an excellent week for both of them and hopefully Mr Murray has thought about a doubles career after singles, if his health allows it.

Rafa a set away. Formality.

Looks very much like it.

The final was played yesterday.

But hopefully Raonic can push on now that he's made top ten .........

Raonic. Lamb. Slaughter.

kingraf wrote:Raonic. Lamb. Slaughter.

Indeed. Rafa is just so much more composed, controlling and dictating these rallies. Raonic just had 3 BPs 0-40, each one easily disposed of. Its been a real disappointing showing from him so far but honestly I believe this is simply the limitations of his game

Raonic proving once again he's rubbish compared to these top players. The sad thing is he might be number 1 by default as everyone ahead of him will retire in the next 7 years, save perhaps DelPo.

Pretty Great tournament win for Rafa, moves to 48-3 for the season, and 10-0 on cement. Leads the ATP race to London by 1440 pts.

Lots of positives to take from this, not least the win over Djokovic.

Now this is a stat.

"Nadal's win only lasted three minutes longer than Serena's today" and Serena won 6-2 6-0...

I find it strange no one at all has mentioned the finger wag at the end of the Nadal-Djokovic match

Well done Rafa. Everyone was calling USO a two horse race between Novak and Andy.

Think there's a Spanish horse in town!

kingraf wrote:I find it strange no one at all has mentioned the finger wag at the end of the Nadal-Djokovic match

You just did

I just had to... The Finger wag after a victory over Djokovic is a very important part of tennis folklore

Well done to Rafa, actually double well done after knocking that dancer that is no:1 in the world. Raonic is showing to be a force in next 3 years.

The finger wag is becoming norm when Nadal beats Djoko, he did it in RG as well and its a copy of Feds wag at Djoko in RG 2011. So Djoko getting wagged like a dog lately.

Think that win gives Rafa a great chance to be number 1 at year end. It looks like Murray intends to continue to mug off any events that aren't grand slams and Rafa looks as good as I've seen him on hard courts. If he can make the final in NY he should get the number 2 ranking.

Raonic was terrible last night. Couldn't find a first serve and furthermore his attempts at the net were beyond poor!

Nadal well what can you say. Seemingly down and out after Wimbledon and comes back to win another title. Does he seriously want to cut out the HC given the success this year on them?!

Fed's back using his old racquet, according to Sky Sports.

The Special Juan wrote:Fed's back using his old racquet, according to Sky Sports.

yep, he practiced yesterday with the old racquet.... I don't know-- switching back a day before your matches and two weeks before the Open-- it tells me he's have real confidence issues or doubting his game... Not a good sign IMO-- esp with Nadal lurking in Quarters this week...

David Ferrer involved in an almighty scrap to stay in the Cincinatti Masters against Ryan Harrison. He served for the match (has had two match points) but now we are back on serve in the third set. Great gight being shown by Harrison but Ferrer I wonder if there has been a dip in his form of late?

Ferrer scrambled through iin the end and the draw is opening up for him so he has a chance to build some confidence and fluency.

So Rog came through after being 4-2 down in the second set and having to ward off a set point in the subsequent tiebreak.
Armed with his old-style racquets, he said afterwards he was relieved to get through and that although he played well at times it was a bit of an up and down performance.
Trouble is he may have to play Tommy Haas next and then, even if he gets through that, he will be probably up against Rafa.

It really sounds as if Federer has all kinds of confidence issues at the moment if he is switching racquets back and forth. Do you think it might be because the courts at Cincy are traditionally much faster that he feels the smaller head will benefit him here, or is it a permanent return?

Hope the back holds up and that we might all get to see some good matches from him at USO this year - though I am not feeling too optimistic reading your report SFP  

He didn't look at his best last night, small or big racquet its not uping his game. He looks permanently fatigued and missing easy shot, sure still a spell of brilliance on many points.

Compared to Nadal's play/power, even Basel Open is a dream for him.

Hope he quits at Basel or WTF if he manages to go and does some decent baby-sitting for his kids.

Jahu. Yeah, he's obviously struggling a bit. But he did announce quite recently that he will play Brisbane in January 2014 so it looks like he's prepared to carry on for a while yet.

Great from Murray or crap from Youzhny? Damn Sky Sports have to dedicate a channel to cricket, don't they?

Juan - how did Muzza play?

Got back just as the match finished, annoyingly.

Wow... Did anyone see the hot dog lob Delpo just played against Davydenko?

Sensational!

Danny_1982 wrote:Juan - how did Muzza play?

Got back just as the match finished, annoyingly.

I didn't see it unfortunately. I only have SS 1 and 2 and it was on 3 or 4. From what I read Murray was steady and Youzhny was splaying errors.

19 UEs to 41 says it all.

Jahu wrote:He didn't look at his best last night, small or big racquet its not uping his game. He looks permanently fatigued and missing easy shot, sure still a spell of brilliance on many points.

Compared to Nadal's play/power, even Basel Open is a dream for him.

Hope he quits at Basel or WTF if he manages to go and does some decent baby-sitting for his kids.

Given Haas/Nadal's exploits after, albeitf forced, lay-offs, I wonder whether it would be an idea to go AWOL for 6-9 months and see if he comes back refeshed.

Novak spraying errors v Monaco. Just gone from 4-2 up to 5-4 down in the first set.

Didn't make much difference in the end

Some interesting clashes coming up later in Cincy.

Dimitrov has taken a set off Nadal in both previous meetings. Can he possibly go one better today ......?

Murray and Djokovic both looked strong yesterday and you'd expect them to come through without serious drama - but perhaps not quite as cleanly as rankings would suggest.

Tommy Haas has only beaten his good mate Federer once in the last ten years, but nowadays with noticeable changes in their respective game + confidence levels (an upswing for Haas contrasting with a decline for Fed) I see any contest between these two pensioners as finely balanced.

I'm really interested in watching Delpo this week to see what kinda form he's in ahead of New York. His return to slam winning ways has long been speculated, but this year it feels more realistic than at any time since 2009.

He has had Masters wins against Andy, Novak and was very close to adding Rafa to that list. Plus his performance against Novak at Wimbledon was sensational. Fractions away from a huge win.

His backhand looks a bit better, his mobility is now better than it was in 09 in my opinion, and he just looks to have regained a bit of belief. Of course as I'm writing this he's just dropped serve against Lopez...

I would maybe put him above Roger as 4th favourite for New York, though as always would need to see the draw before nailing my colours to that mast.

Federer playing rather not very well in Cinci here, all Haas has had to do is put the ball in play and hes 5-1 up with a bp. Very poor errors from the Fed

Fed is a spent force. UE's galore, silly mistakes, he can barely move. Whatever its bothering him, his back, ears,  toes, it don;t matter, he's history, well the GOAT of course, but all finished for him.

Oh, and any one saying Fed is still playing cause he loves the game blla blla, is either blind and doesn't want to see the reality or is living in 2006 dreamland.

He's only playing for the commercial agreements and endorsements he has and the money they bring, as surely he ain't earning any prize money and he definitely does not look like he wants to be on the court this 2013 at all!

Good bye my love, been fun watching you live on 11 tournaments since 2005, and have had some great moments watching you, so ciao amore!!

It's a shame to see him reduced to this.

It's probably for the better he didn't meet Nadal next round (that assumes Nadal beats Dimitrov).

Danny_1982 wrote:

I would maybe put him above Roger as 4th favourite for New York, though as always would need to see the draw before nailing my colours to that mast.

I think everyone in the top 10 bar Ferrer should be favoured to go further than Federer at the US Open. This is the worst sequence of hard court tennis I've seen and its not one of these situations where you can say he'll raise his game in the slam on his best surface - the tennis over these last 5 months has just been so...limp...

Ive seen him for many years, as im sure you all have and this is worst ive seen, or heard of him play. Hes making lazy, club tennis types of errors